Bosch hub motors for scooters and the NIU M1

[kin27779]

I like everything about it except one thing.
To be legal in china the top speed is limited to 45kph.
I feel the bosch motors are of extreme quality and I bet a controller could push way more amps through
this bosch motor. I am considering to export this model to the states with a controller that can get it to go
in the 80-90kph range that people who drive in the states will want. I am thinking to do the testing and rnd myself in china making sure nothing melts or breaks.
The 120km range is going 45kph I am sure with a controller putting more amps to get a higher speed range would be reduced.
The pro model comes with a 1200w motor.

Anyone else tried one of these 1200w bosch motors? What could you reliably put through it amps wise?

 

[SlowCo]

Is there more info available for that scooter in English? I'm interested as it is (45km/h) for Europe.
I found the price for china (<600€) but have no idea what the import duty would be.

 

[kin27779]

At this time there is not a good source of jnfo in English for these. I can give you some more information through my own research and translation. There are 5 models. The lowest model has a 400w motor and a lower range battery. The pro model has a 1200w motor and a 120km range battery. Each model uses different companies batteries but all are high quality. Three brands used are LG, Samsung, and Panasonic. Which model you buy will determine what battery pack you get. It can be charged with the battery pack in the scooter, or the pack can be removed and has a carrying handle on its frame. It has has a Bosch regenerative braking controller and a power boost function. If you twist the throttle and still want more power you can push the boost button for additional power. Pretty cool. The swingarm is made of a magnesium titanium alloy. Lights are led. There is some storage under the seat but not too much due to the battery pack being located there. I will update more later as I try some controller mods and change display to mph, requirements to get licensed in the states. The 600 price is most likely the base model. With the 400w motor you might only go 35kph max and have a range of 40kms. The pro model is the one you will want trust me. Its pricier yeah but it comes down to how many times you want to lug your 8.3kg battery upstairs to charge? Onces ever 3 or 4 days or twice a month, and that's what you pay for, also higher top speed and acceleration. If anyone else is interested in getting some of these to their specs or need a container full hit me up, I am out here in China. http://Www.shanghairyan.com

 

[borko444]

Can you give me a specification of the motor.
Everything you know about him.

 

[larsb]

you should open up your motor borko
We'll be able to judge it if we see the inside and you do some measurements

 

[eee291]

Found some more bikes with Bosch motors.

https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/super-soco-tc-in-blau-elektro-moped-304984476/
https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/super-soco-ts-1200-r-e-moped-318701370/
https://www.willhaben.at/iad/kaufen-und-verkaufen/d/super-soco-terminator-sonder-editionts-1200-r-e-moped-45-km-h-318706644/
This is their website: http://www.bike-center-amlach.at/

Not much info here either.

 

[borko444]

I don't think to open it for now.
i can make it measurable, but what?

 

[larsb]

kV= rpms/volt : measure current and rpm at full throttle and no load and half throttle no load

phase to phase resistance (motor winding resistance): method described here: http://www.bavaria-direct.co.za/constants/

You'll need some measuring equipment to do it. maybe you can get current and rpm from the speedometer?
for the resistance you'll need at least one multimeter if you can get current from speedo, possibly two.

 

[borko444]

I tried to make a measurement but it doesn't read anything AC and DC doesn't count more than 4-5 volts

 

[borko444]

What I was able to measure at no load was the engine
at 569 rpm it is 1.7 Amps und 72V akku

 

[larsb]

was battery at 72V when you did the test or what was the exact voltage?

 

[borko444]

78,2V

 

[larsb]

So kV is 7.3 RPM/V, it's low but probably a good match to weak SLA batteries. If you had lithium then it'd be better with a higher kV since then you could easily push more current through motor.

Your loaded max speed with your 72V SLA battery would be about 85V*7,3rpm/V*0,85=527rpm without field weakening

with a 120x70x12 tyre you'd get 85*7,3*0,85*1,483*60=47km/h max driving speed if the voltage doesn't sag.

To get higher you'd have to either use field weakening / switch tyres / increase voltage.
With a 96V battery you'd get (85+2*14)*7,3*0,85*1,483*60=62km/h

I'd try to set some field weakening and see if it gives you any added speed. Different motors have different performance in field weakening. Watch temperatures of motor when you do this.

 

[borko444]

Super comprehensive answer.
Thank you so much.
Where in the program should field weakening be reduced?

So far I have stopped at 96 volts but have to buy 2 batteries + two converters 96 volts to 12 volts.
The issue is that higher speeds and higher voltages lead to lower performance.
Meaning, the distance traveled will be much smaller.
Now, after 100% charging, I walk about 50km in 5 days.
Higher voltages and higher speeds will give lower results as distance traveled.
I guess I'll need a better battery, such as lithium,
From a financial point of view.
2 x 12V 20h batteries cost about 120 euros
Two converters 96-12 volts 10 euros.
The space under the seat where I have it will be taken up by the batteries.
At least I find more negative than positive things.
The city I live in is not big and 45-50km are enough for me. The only thing I will do with the new controller is more power in a short time. that I can use in the bottom.
What do you think? Changing the system to 96 Volts will reduce the distance traveled.

 

[borko444]

I forgot to mention that with one Chinese controller, the speed I achieved was about 51 km, loaded with 130kg. The controller was bluetooth.
I think my controller is limited.

 

[larsb]

If you set it at 99% then i don't think so.

 

[borko444]

yes it is set at 99%.

As I can see from your calculations I need to go to 96 Volts.
As I said before, it will cost me about 150 Euros.
But will this affect the distance?
If I stay at 72 volts I will have the same speed and maybe the same distancion, otherwise if I go to 96 volts I will keep same 20 amps which I can hardly go more than 40 km because the consumption will be higher or I will be confused?
A 96 volt 40 amp battery in Germany costs about 1000 euros. I can't afford that.
I also want to ask if it makes sense to switch to a 96V acid battery in order to achieve 10 kilometers more speed or to stay at 72V but to keep the distance with one charge cycle.

 

[borko444]

Awaiting my controller

 

[borko444]

Your loaded max speed with your 72V SLA battery would be about 85V*7,3rpm/V*0,85=527rpm without field weakening

This is not true anywhere, because with a 100% charged battery and 82 volts, the maximum is 569 rpm.
The same is true for 72 volts 20% battery, 569 rpm remains unchanged.
Now it follows or the controller is limited and no longer supplies current to the engine or the motor is limited to a maximum of 72 volts.
I suppose the BOSH motor is rated so that at 72 volts it does not exceed more than 550-600 rpm.
I guess at higher voltages things will change. I have one 12 volt battery.
Can I connect him and try with 84 volts what happens. I'm afraid of burning something else with higher voltages, such as speedometers, 72 volt to 12 volt converters.
But will the controller endure 84 Volts or should I change this in the settings?

 

[larsb]

If speed is the same at 72V then you're speed restricted in controller. try to set all values at 99%
84V is OK for the controller - 72V nominal lithium battery is 84V max when fully charged.

It will not be a problem for the motor but speedo and DC-DC should be checked if there are any markings that could be searched to get specs.

 

[borko444]

I will try and I answer in a little while

 

[borko444]

Nothing has changed.
569 is the maximum rpm, which in itself indicates that the controller is limited or must be programmed in another way, which I do not know.
I suppose everything is down to a different kind of controller setup but it will be risky to do anything without knowing what it is.
If you have ideas, help

 

[larsb]

Nothing has changed.
569 is the maximum rpm, which in itself indicates that the controller is limited or must be programmed in another way, which I do not know.
I suppose everything is down to a different kind of controller setup but it will be risky to do anything without knowing what it is.
If you have ideas, help

don't know.. I guess changing the three speed button setting doesn't make a difference?

 

[borko444]

99% of everything is done.
I think probably need to touch something on page three with in programe and the motor field settings or something.

 

[ddavewoods41]

Hi new here and need a little advice I need to know if this hub motor is a 1200W is it possible to tell from this stamoed into the motor

Many thanks

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