Current Cycles Prototype Buildlog...

[Whiplash]

If it was any tinier, I would have to laugh at it's size! :lol: Amazing work Brian, I hope those gears harden up for you, this is a great accomplishment.

Can we put a two speed in there?! :wink:

I actually thought about it, but I think if you want gears, it is best to just use the rear cluster on the bike. Remember this is for a max of about 5000 watts, not the 10K scene like some people use around here! LOL BUT with the gear cluster on back, and up to 5K on tap, you will wonder why you EVER needed that kind of power! I am getting over 40MPH with only 1500watts and it gets there plenty fast and in low gear, if you whack the throttle WOT from a dead stop, you will be sitting on your a$$ before you know what happened!

 

[ptd]

what i meant by thick, was not bulky, i just meant that it looked like the gears might not fit inside the tubing. 1.5" thick is great. and that tbot place does machine work on bosses and bores. it's probably expensive for prototyping, but multiple pieces shouldn't be too bad.

and ya, i wondered if the bore on the smaller gear might not be able to take a keyway, i just thought i had seen keyed shafts in that last pic you put up. but you could put keys on the gear, and keyway the shaft, right ? then the bearings wouldn't be an issue either. makes me wonder what the torque capacity is for different profiles, like, multiple keyways. is there some kind of guide for that ? or simple equation maybe ?

 

[bandaro]

Hmmm, when I read that you were cutting the gears down for weight to be honest I thought you were being a little pedantic and AJ like, but I then looked at the gears you linked and they are 470g for a 40t mod 1.5? That would really add up, how much does the whole reduction weigh?

Now while I'm being honest here, the thing I least like about your design (really the only thing) is it, like many others, has the motor sitting exposed in front of the frame. I've never run a bike like this so is it as big a deal as I imagine or would it only be noticeable trials riding or not at all? I see the cyclone kit and many others and cringe at the thought of it not quite making it over a log, falling off and skidding into a stump or the like. Are the motor plates protecting it more than I think or am I just being paranoid again? So many systems seem to have this setup but I have never heard of a problem with it.

Keeping an eye on your website, cant wait for you to finish the design. Hows the little 'un? You and mum getting enough sleep?

 

[AussieJester]

Remember this is for a max of about 5000 watts, not the 10K scene like some people use around here! LOL BUT with the gear cluster on back, and up to 5K on tap, you will wonder why you EVER needed that kind of power!

Try it ...tiz addictive

Get this box a happening i'm eager to see how she goes as i'm sure
many others following this thread are

All the best

KiM

 

[Whiplash]

Thanks AJ! Im on it today! I am still trying to decide on how to punt the two single gears to their shafts, but I think once I get rolling I will figure it out. Do you think a roll pin would weaken the first stage shaft too much being only 3/8"??

 

[Whiplash]

Well here you go, one working gearbox!! Minus the little things like thrust washers and such but it is here and works! I tried the idea of pressing the two gears together. They are running with about .002" press fit so I am hopeful it will hold since it is only the second stage, I think it will. This will make it nice to not have to weld things together. I also have NO oil in it and the ends are still open but with the drill turning the second stage input gear (basically the driven side of the input chain) I am running about half the RPM it will be seeing at WOT and it is SILENT. I mean zip, zero, nothing for sound. All you hear is the drill. I need to still cut the hole for the motor mounting and slot he holes for it and such but I am really close here, I am hoping to have it all put together this weekend ready to start fitment onto the bike, we will see...!!! I am uploading a vid of it in action if you don't believe me! Coming soon! Note that I will be trimming even more off the length in the vid, it should come in around 9 inches long by 1.5" wide by 3 inches tall and weighs around 2lbs without the motor installed, dry.

Edit:

[youtube]APZc8Fc_iXE[/youtube]


HERE IS THE BOX I AM CURRENTLY RUNNING ON THE BIKE IN MY VIDEOS! BIG DIFFERENCE HUH??

[youtube]GU8SV2RHjOg[/youtube]

 

[TopCat]

Ah ha Progress. Getting close now buddy :wink: Cant wait for the next thrilling enstalment.

Regards
Tom

 

[Whiplash]

Thanks! I had to spend a little time today with the family so I will do a little bit more tonight then hopefully get it all dialed in tomorrow after church with the family...

 

[Whiplash]

Almost done! I just need the motor mount slots and I'm done with the case! The oval is where the motor will reside, having it inside like this will make it easy to put a dust cover on it! I love my new mill/lathe!

 

[ptd]

i feel like i'm watching edtv, lol. can't wait to see what happens next.

so do we think that the 1/8 wall tubing is going to hold up, to 5 kw ? stay tuned, lol.

i know you're other unit would do 1200w all day long, but it's not nearly as incredible as your new one. still wondering if you'd make the 1200w version, with weaker, cheaper, lighter, gears and motor. i was thinking the neo 46-580 or 60-410.

either way, you might send one to mrbill for some efficiency tests.

 

[Whiplash]

I have considered making a low power version and just ship it with the controller set to like 20A. That will still climbjust about anything if geared right and would be cheaper to make. My new unit was simply so I can advertise 40+mph and huge climbing power, as well as being quieter. I really like my new design though, since it is so compact! I have not test fit it on a total downhill bike but I bet it will clear most if not all front wheel compression distances ...

 

[ptd]

that thing is so tiny, it's gotta fit. but who says you gotta go UNDER the downtube ? i was thinking ditch the front derailleur, and go with a single freewheeling chainwheel.

 

[Whiplash]

That's what I am doing now, but you need room for batteries and that is where the batteries go..

 

[etard]

I love it, it looks great man! What about putting 24" rims on the bike and fitting it behind the seatpost ( if design will allow it). I forget how you are setting it up, direct to the rear wheel or through the cranks? I dont think I would worry about people bashing it on logs, it's simply not designed for that. Besides, unless you are in a race, who the hell does that to thier pedal bike anyway? I mtb all the time, and unless I case a jump, this part of my frame remand untouched. But then there is the possibility of chucking a pebble into your motor from off the front tire.

 

[Whiplash]

I love it, it looks great man! What about putting 24" rims on the bike and fitting it behind the seatpost ( if design will allow it). I forget how you are setting it up, direct to the rear wheel or through the cranks? I dont think I would worry about people bashing it on logs, it's simply not designed for that. Besides, unless you are in a race, who the hell does that to thier pedal bike anyway? I mtb all the time, and unless I case a jump, this part of my frame remand untouched. But then there is the possibility of chucking a pebble into your motor from off the front tire.

That us why it will have a cover! I am still working that out though since I will still need to get air in and out. I am thinking of having a cooling fan on the back of the motor and cover all but the very end and have the fan blowing out of the case and put a filter on the end of the box but I am not sure. I will get it worked out though, just might take time...

 

[AussieJester]

I thought about a 'can' over the entire motor simple to make pvc pipe could possibly be used for this, circular bracket at the base to join pipe to box fan on motor very fine mesh covering the end of the 'can' can draw a sketch when on pc later today if your not clear on it? I think out would work a treat be simple and cheap to fab.

KiM

 

[Whiplash]

Sounds like what I am thinking too kind of, if you don't mind a sketch would be cool!

Here are he final "pre assembly" pics. I have yet to fix anything o the shafts since I still need to make the litle load distributing spacers that will go under each bearing to take up the thickness they have and help to make it even stronger, but there is NO flexing this baby at all!! It is R I G I D!

 

[Whiplash]

Well, here its is...well mostly, I still need to set the thrust clearances and such and decide how to fix the gears the the shafts but the hard parts are done. I am getting really close now!

 

[ptd]

gettin there. love it. flanged bearings, and just circlip the shaft, right ? spacers inside ? and hey, how did you get the shafts attached ? can't figure out why you didn't go with belt for first reduction though. those pulleys at tbot are about the same price, and you'd only pay a little bit more for the belt. hey, how did you end up payin $150 for gears ? i came up with $45 and $20 for shipping. ok, that's not including a third sprocket for output,or bearings, or shafts, but... are you thinking 16T fw ? or was there another reduction to the chainwheel using #25 ?


which turnigy is that ? i just found those on HK. what's the efficiency claim ? i might have to try that 1580w one. just amp it down or something. can't lose for $40. and damn, $60 for 3250w ? and 170 kv. almost don't need 25:1, lol. think we could overvolt these 72 ?

ok, starting to drool on the keyboard. and i'd rather watch video of a gearbox than porn. somethin's not right, lol.

 

[Whiplash]

Im still working out some things, but the chain was used for compactness. Belts are great and I may even go that route eventually, but I knew this would work and be very small and that was a biggie. This motor is the 63/74 and will handle 3000+ watts. I am really marketing this box for this motor, but I am pretty sure it will handle up to as much as 5000 watts, but truly I think that much power will be useless in this application since it will be totally unruly and too hard to ride. I could be wrong but even the 1500 watts I am using with the V1 box can be a bit aggressive in the technical off road stuff. I will be testing it with about 2500 watts initially and see what it does. Truly it will be more than enough power. Its also the limit of what you can do with an Off the shelf 9fet contrllerso I am thinking that will be the kit and if someone wants to hotrod it, that will be on them to figure out..

 

[AussieJester]

Looking reeeeal impressive for the first 'proto-type' of this
particular design Whip, very impressive indeed i think :wink:
:: fingers crossed :: the gears are up to the task
be a hot little item for those wanting this much reduction
for running through bikes gearing light slim design are winning points
IMO, i'm actually surprised someone hasn't got to making something
like this sooner. It really is great to see this didn't become another one of those
50 page threads with dozens of CAD drawings and a whole lot of talk that
ends in nothing being made and the thread dying in the ass... :-S

Keep up the good work mate also, hows the new addition to the family
going?

KiM

 

[Whiplash]

Thanks, AJ! I think the gears should take it, they are much beefier than the ones in my first design and the straight cut ones are living with the 1500 watts with no problem so far.

As for the little one, she's doing great! Growing like crazy! I just can't believe how cut she is, didn't get that part from me! Lol!

 

[Whiplash]

For what its worth, 4.2AH consumed, 5 miles+ @ 25+mph average, little to no pedaling, 2000' altitude gain...

 

[dontsendbubbamail]

Well, here its is...well mostly, I still need to set the thrust clearances and such and decide how to fix the gears the the shafts but the hard parts are done. I am getting really close now!

You might not have enough clearance between your motor magnets and the top and bottom of the aluminum box. Jeremy pointed out this problem on my last design. The motor magnets will be inducing a current in the aluminum that causes drag on the motor (maybe a roughly right statement). If you have this problem the metal near the can of the motor will heat up. Going to a ½” clearance got rid of most of my problem. Should you have the problem, oval cutouts in the top and bottom may make it go away.

Bubba

 

[ptd]

For what its worth, 4.2AH consumed, 5 miles+ @ 25+mph average, little to no pedaling, 2000' altitude gain...

holy sheet...worth the wait. HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, you got it running and didn't take any video ? that's a hangin offense, lol. those figures sound way too good. how about wH's ? i know you're running around 50v, but. and maybe road condition ? consistent grade ? of 7.5% ? total mass ? by some rough calcs, i get power required around 1400 watts. for 12 minutes, that'd be 280 wh's, divided by say overall efficiency of say 81% (90 for motor and 90 for drivetrain ?) equals about 350 wh's. divided by 4.2ah = 83V. have we turned it up a notch ? or is my math off somewhere. man, i got a ride here JUST like that (ok, it's not all paved road), but i don't think i'd get away with 3 kw. but i'd be happy at 10-12 mph, for that kind of grade. wow. extremely well done, whip. crackin. now can we pretty please have some video ?