Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

This bike is just perfect!

What controller are you using for 14s? I got a lot of 14s batteries and might want a tangent drive one day :)

Is the IGH an Shimano Alfine 8/11 or a Rohloff?
 
I use Castle controllers, they handle 14s fine. This Zerode is using the bigger kit I'm beginning to sell with a TalonHV 120 and Astro 3220. The IGH is a Shimano Alfine 8spd.

-dave
 
For the ones interested in PAS and throttle-only efficiency with Canadian street-legal limits (500W/32kph), look here:
[youtube]_phnVKRS1LE[/youtube]
 
Can the Castle Creations HV80 be used without the Cycle Analyst? I understand it is nice to have but I don't know if you need it to make it work.

It looks so small compared to my no-name controller on my bike.
 
Joe T. said:
Can the Castle Creations HV80 be used without the Cycle Analyst? I understand it is nice to have but I don't know if you need it to make it work.

It looks so small compared to my no-name controller on my bike.
Click to expand...

You need to send a PWM signal to the controller to trick it into thinking it is connected to an RC transmitter. This can be done a number of ways. The CA happens to have this PWM output capability built in.

Matt
 
It will be dangerous to control the speed of the motor with the throttle rather than motor power (or battery power in this case). The CA also provides over temperature protection, power limits, throttle ramps, gentle freewheel engagement... It looks like an 80's hand held video game, but really it is needed for the system to function well.

Sent from my BLU LIFE ONE X using Tapatalk
 
hi dave i need some help if was to use your 40/1 gearbox with only 1 chian ring what size would be Good with a 11/36 rear

it for my 2.0 Cyclone giant glory downhill Max mods % pics

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83009


i can't just test chianrings, i have 1 shot deal cutting the motor plate, any help would be nice thank you
 
aCeMadMod said:
hi dave i need some help if was to use your 40/1 gearbox with only 1 chian ring what size would be Good with a 11/36 rear

it for my 2.0 Cyclone giant glory downhill Max mods % pics

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83009


i can't just test chianrings, i have 1 shot deal cutting the motor plate, any help would be nice thank you
Click to expand...
You mean for the bike chaining? I'd use a 36t. It's not too large but still big enough to give good top speed. The 36t cassette will give lots of gear range with a ton of slow speed torque. The 11t cog may wear fast and if you do need more climbing torque, a 42t granny cog should climb a tree.

Sent from my BLU LIFE ONE X using Tapatalk
 
izeman said:
You would need to give your desired speed and voltage to find the correct chain ring.


i am do what i been told too , lipo 12s 49 volt 16 ha . flat ground speed lke 40 to 45km, 20% to 25% climb speed 20 km, and %30 15 km or more speed

will that help you pick to front chainring ? gearbox 16 is teeth rear cass 11/36

thak you dave 8)
Click to expand...
 
Use a 36t for the bicycle front chainring. The cassette has a huge range, you'll find a gear for every situation. Those speeds are doable with this setup.
 
So much fun. This was lap 1 of the Lost Sierra open throttle class. Recorded on a GoPro Session, the sound is unaltered.

[youtube]PRhVsPg8CIA[/youtube]

The start was 1 minute intervals, meaning the guy I pass on the Cyclone kit had a 1 minute head start. Tough desert race conditions meant hot motors all around, you can see me slow down about the 3/4 mark; deep sandy loam is tough and my favorite way to get through it is lighten the front with a bunch of throttle.

The course was 6.5 miles per lap, two laps total. I used 12Ah for the 13 miles but planned on using my full 20Ah pack until I hit the thermal rollback. That's when I realized I should have recharged my liver better at breakfast. Lap 2 is more of the same with more pedaling and managing of motor heat. For comparison, my lap times were 15:32 and 17:30(ish); the PAS pros on Haibikes were in the 19 minute range. If I had better flow and hadn't overheated the motor, I bet I would have been under 14min.

This is real racing, and it's real fun. Thanks again EcoBikeAdventures, I can't wait to do this again.


-dave
 
h i hope you ok, look what i ride on every day and same temp with - 25% downhill track, feel like powerd snow, was it the corner, makeing you fall any blood come out the knee

loook like you need make the watercooling , told you about very long time ago, i had a feeling you can crook your motor, without C.a 3.0 to stop temp killing it .

you would of won the race , :D

all the best
 
loook like you need make the watercooling , told you about very long time ago, i had a feeling you can crook your motor, without C.a 3.0 to stop temp killing it .
Click to expand...

its not suprise the astro 3220 over heat at only 5kw peak, i don't know how some people think this is a 10kw motor ??? even if it can do that for a few seconds. The continuous rating of this motor is only 3750w , to stop it overheating you will have to reduce the current as its a sealed motor . what is the efficiency of this motor at 5kw input power? its high at 93% at low 1280w power but what is it at 5kw?
 
Gentlemen, gentlemen, baby steps. I rode two laps the day before- the first was just cruising and having fun, the motor temp was 100C (warm, but fine- and this with zero pedaling and lots of wheelies). My second lap I started pushing it and saw 120C, this is the temp I set the thermal rollback to begin. Then I completely lost my mind and raced like an idiot, like the bike was a motorcycle, coming too fast into corners and trying to square them off. I mean, what a moron. I knew the race was two laps and if I didn't flow I'd hit the temp limit right away. That powdered snow, it's tough to trust the front. I hammered the throttle hard through each turn to keep the front light since it was skating around so much. It was what, 12 minutes of this moron racing in sand with 5kW settings before it hit 120deg C? This setup on hardpack or aggressive trail riding doesn't overheat. In retrospect, I should have limited current to 70A for the race knowing I was going to push too hard and that 95A reached the rollback temp the day before; 70A and I doubt I'd have overheated. 95A is just sooo much fun though....

45 minutes of race pace is a high bar to meet. We'll get there.
 
Alex07 said:
loook like you need make the watercooling , told you about very long time ago, i had a feeling you can crook your motor, without C.a 3.0 to stop temp killing it .
Click to expand...

its not suprise the astro 3220 over heat at only 5kw peak, i don't know how some people think this is a 10kw motor ??? even if it can do that for a few seconds. The continuous rating of this motor is only 3750w , to stop it overheating you will have to reduce the current as its a sealed motor . what is the efficiency of this motor at 5kw input power? its high at 93% at low 1280w power but what is it at 5kw?
Click to expand...

It is amazing to me how people can make statements without experience.

I am the primary individual pushing the limits of these motors and posting the results. So, I assume that statement was aimed at me......

First, if you run the proper wind, these motors absolutely can put out 14,000 watts in bursts and sustain 5kw indefinitely. I know because I do it on a regular basis. The issue is proper setup. For that kind of power, you need a high KV, substantial wiring, and good air flow around the motor. For 6kw continous, you need fan cooling and outer case cooling. For 7kw continuous you need fan cooling through the windings and liquid cooling around the can. I pulled 7kw through a 6 turn delta 3220 for 10 minutes without a break. This was in a wakeboard with liquid cooling and fan cooling.

For reference, a 4 turn Delta 3220 has peak efficiency of 91% at 7,800 watts. You need high KV for high power survival.

The fact of the matter is, in a bike you would not pull huge power for more than a few seconds at a time. So, supplemental cooling is normally not needed.

Be careful about posting incorrect information about things you do not understand.

By the way, I have liquid cooling sleeves here that were developed to push the boundaries of these motors. That is needed for 7kw continuous. 5kw continuous merely requires high kv and good air flow.

Matt
 
What he said.

I've only got half the 3220 in the heat sink right now. You can see how hard I'm riding and how much work the motor is doing. This is sandy desert and I was out there smashing it. If you're poaching trails with your mates, don't worry about temp, a max current setting of 95A is a blast to ride. It takes racing in a hot desert at this power to overheat it (which was set to a conservative 120deg C...)


-dave
 
The point being is that this is a normal sealed 3220 and it cannot handle 5kw for 2 laps without overheating as the thermal mass is so low .

Their is no point comparing to exotically cooled motors with air or water, heck any junk motor you cool with liquid nitrogen will handle 3 or 4 times its normal rating ! But these are costly, heavy , inefficient and impractical solutions for most people on bicycle , dirt dust/water don't mix with motors.

And this is a real world example that the motor overheated in 2 laps, so it makes sense that the manufacturers rating is so low continuous 3750w, other readers also new it would overheat so it gives people some real world perspective of what to expect ...

Ok fine with exotic cooling or in a lab experiment in can handle peaks of 14kw for a drag race for 10 seconds, doesn't mean it can handle 2 laps on a track at 5kw which is more like real road use of a 20-30 min hard ride that you would expect it to not overheat.
 
Dave,

Excellent video and your drive is so quiet. What a great place to ride and race. Reminds me of my Honda Pilot and Drakart Formula Cross days.

Super cool!

Tom
 
Alex07 said:
The point being is that this is a normal sealed 3220 and it cannot handle 5kw for 2 laps without overheating as the thermal mass is so low .

Their is no point comparing to exotically cooled motors with air or water, heck any junk motor you cool with liquid nitrogen will handle 3 or 4 times its normal rating ! But these are costly, heavy , inefficient and impractical solutions for most people on bicycle , dirt dust/water don't mix with motors.

And this is a real world example that the motor overheated in 2 laps, so it makes sense that the manufacturers rating is so low continuous 3750w, other readers also new it would overheat so it gives people some real world perspective of what to expect ...

Ok fine with exotic cooling or in a lab experiment in can handle peaks of 14kw for a drag race for 10 seconds, doesn't mean it can handle 2 laps on a track at 5kw which is more like real road use of a 20-30 min hard ride that you would expect it to not overheat.
Click to expand...

And you are also wrong. The single biggest factor by a HUGE margin is kv. A high kv motor (4 turn delta or 5 turn delta) hits peak efficiency at over 7,000 watts. Believe it or not, dirt and water are not nearly the issue you might think. Dave's issues are mainly related to high power at low kv, not the limit of motor design.

My experience is "real world" too. 3,700 watts continuous is correct for LOW KV MOTORS.

Why does no one listen?

You guys can keep thinking what you want. Those of us who understand these motors can continue get EXTREME performance out of ours.
 
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