Unobtainium these days Vasili is only ramping up production of the 24fmorati said:Curious if anyone has tried the Nucular 6F? It can run sensorless motors as well and the buy-in price isn't bad.
Ham said:Bearing shot or gears cracked. Best to pop it open and have a look....
500 miles is nothing. These bearing should be good for few thousand miles. Cycloidal shape of Tangent is way off and bearings can't take that. I'm sure bearing size is right on it. My own build cycloidal drive has about 3K miles and not a single bearing problem, but also no heat, vibrations or nose.Ham said:Not unheard of for the bearing to fail. Pretty sure it's off the shelf size... should be written on it somewhere. If not then someone here will know which it is or take calipers to it for internal and external diameters and race width....
Dave hasn't been responsive on here for some time. I hope he is OK.
Motor glued to the shell? Is this one of the progressively update gearboxes with aluminum gears?knurf said:Yeah? Dave's actually responding again? I'd love to get my dead late gen Tangent back and running. Just an expensive paperweight right now.
The freewheel's whats always messed up my units, they break and cannot be replaced, since they tend to cold weld to the output screw. In my final breakdown the whole transfer part broke before the freewheel. Can't even use the motor for anything since its the version with the motor epoxied to the shell.
knurf said:Yeah? Dave's actually responding again? I'd love to get my dead late gen Tangent back and running. Just an expensive paperweight right now.
The freewheel's whats always messed up my units, they break and cannot be replaced, since they tend to cold weld to the output screw. In my final breakdown the whole transfer part broke before the freewheel. Can't even use the motor for anything since its the version with the motor epoxied to the shell.
I think I’ve run and broke all recent revisions of this concept. My last one was indeed the aluminum geared one with the alternate motor (can’t remember the name but it wasn’t Astro) fused into the shell. It was comparable to the 3220. The output part that connects the freewheel thing is removable now (to quickly swap freewheels) but it was made much too weak and the aluminum piece has sheared instead. Getting one made in a random shop here using just the part without any blueprints costs 50% of the Tangent itself.. also there’s some real play in the gears at this point anyway so limited life left in it I think. Super fun unit while it worked, thought I’d never find anything to fill that void (but I did).Ecyclist said:Motor glued to the shell? Is this one of the progressively update gearboxes with aluminum gears?knurf said:Yeah? Dave's actually responding again? I'd love to get my dead late gen Tangent back and running. Just an expensive paperweight right now.
The freewheel's whats always messed up my units, they break and cannot be replaced, since they tend to cold weld to the output screw. In my final breakdown the whole transfer part broke before the freewheel. Can't even use the motor for anything since its the version with the motor epoxied to the shell.
I know that Tangent was at first with chromoly steel gears and later with aluminum gears. Presumably to make it lighter. In reality because it was easier (read cheaper) to machine. Hopefully you will get a new part and will be able to use it again. Throwing away $2k is not fun. Was you motor 3210?
I guess I could make a new output post for you just for fun, but considering that this kit has aluminum gears I don't see a point.knurf said:I think I’ve run and broke all recent revisions of this concept. My last one was indeed the aluminum geared one with the alternate motor (can’t remember the name but it wasn’t Astro) fused into the shell. It was comparable to the 3220. The output part that connects the freewheel thing is removable now (to quickly swap freewheels) but it was made much too weak and the aluminum piece has sheared instead. Getting one made in a random shop here using just the part without any blueprints costs 50% of the Tangent itself.. also there’s some real play in the gears at this point anyway so limited life left in it I think. Super fun unit while it worked, thought I’d never find anything to fill that void (but I did).Ecyclist said:Motor glued to the shell? Is this one of the progressively update gearboxes with aluminum gears?knurf said:Yeah? Dave's actually responding again? I'd love to get my dead late gen Tangent back and running. Just an expensive paperweight right now.
The freewheel's whats always messed up my units, they break and cannot be replaced, since they tend to cold weld to the output screw. In my final breakdown the whole transfer part broke before the freewheel. Can't even use the motor for anything since its the version with the motor epoxied to the shell.
I know that Tangent was at first with chromoly steel gears and later with aluminum gears. Presumably to make it lighter. In reality because it was easier (read cheaper) to machine. Hopefully you will get a new part and will be able to use it again. Throwing away $2k is not fun. Was you motor 3210?
I also have a broken 1.5(?) revision with a 3210, which has the unscrewable freewheel problem. It had a lot of miles on it and also rusted. After I had my way with it, I handed the thing in to my local motorbike shop and they couldn’t get it off with their air driven industrial tool (ofc I showed them and told them about the pins etc). So in frustration I just cut the whole fw off with a angle grinder, trying to keep as much of the threads as possible but ofc that didn’t hold up long.
So it’s all just expensive paperweights at this point but was real fun while it last!
I would have begged you to help me out if it wasn't for the fact that I've already found something better. But you're right; it will just keep breaking even if I probably could get a few hours more time out of it.Ecyclist said:I guess I could make a new output post for you just for fun, but considering that this kit has aluminum gears I don't see a point.knurf said:I think I’ve run and broke all recent revisions of this concept. My last one was indeed the aluminum geared one with the alternate motor (can’t remember the name but it wasn’t Astro) fused into the shell. It was comparable to the 3220. The output part that connects the freewheel thing is removable now (to quickly swap freewheels) but it was made much too weak and the aluminum piece has sheared instead. Getting one made in a random shop here using just the part without any blueprints costs 50% of the Tangent itself.. also there’s some real play in the gears at this point anyway so limited life left in it I think. Super fun unit while it worked, thought I’d never find anything to fill that void (but I did).Ecyclist said:Motor glued to the shell? Is this one of the progressively update gearboxes with aluminum gears?knurf said:Yeah? Dave's actually responding again? I'd love to get my dead late gen Tangent back and running. Just an expensive paperweight right now.
The freewheel's whats always messed up my units, they break and cannot be replaced, since they tend to cold weld to the output screw. In my final breakdown the whole transfer part broke before the freewheel. Can't even use the motor for anything since its the version with the motor epoxied to the shell.
I know that Tangent was at first with chromoly steel gears and later with aluminum gears. Presumably to make it lighter. In reality because it was easier (read cheaper) to machine. Hopefully you will get a new part and will be able to use it again. Throwing away $2k is not fun. Was you motor 3210?
I also have a broken 1.5(?) revision with a 3210, which has the unscrewable freewheel problem. It had a lot of miles on it and also rusted. After I had my way with it, I handed the thing in to my local motorbike shop and they couldn’t get it off with their air driven industrial tool (ofc I showed them and told them about the pins etc). So in frustration I just cut the whole fw off with a angle grinder, trying to keep as much of the threads as possible but ofc that didn’t hold up long.
So it’s all just expensive paperweights at this point but was real fun while it last!
They will be gone soon after you get a new part going. It's a dead end.
Maybe Dave can send you new steel gears and an output post. Assuming all parts are made to the same tolerance and fit without any problems.
I would have begged you to help me out if it wasn't for the fact that I've already found something better. But you're right; it will just keep breaking even if I probably could get a few hours more time out of it.
The Tangent kit was my way into ebiking and I've had a lot of fun on these kits already. Also Daves been more than helpful and I've definitely lost count on how many packages he's sent me with replacement parts over the years. He wouldn't even let me pay for the shipping.
knurf is using now GNG / CYC X1 Pro 3000w.giblet said:I would have begged you to help me out if it wasn't for the fact that I've already found something better. But you're right; it will just keep breaking even if I probably could get a few hours more time out of it.
The Tangent kit was my way into ebiking and I've had a lot of fun on these kits already. Also Daves been more than helpful and I've definitely lost count on how many packages he's sent me with replacement parts over the years. He wouldn't even let me pay for the shipping.
Be interested to know what you went to after the Tangent - I've not found anything that was as fun yet?
Also Dave was very fair and also sent me multiple units and revisions at his own cost. When the unit worked - it was epic.
New round of units going out, these include some changes I've been working on over the winter.
Old on top, new on the bottom. The 6806 bearings are a bit small, so in with 16005 ZZ C3, oh yea. These are twice the strength, C3 clearance for high speed and temps. They're a touch wider so I had to re-do the other pieces. These gears are 7075 Aluminum running against a steel ring gear. Steel for the eccentric gears is overkill, thousands of miles and they look brand new. Shown here is the eccentric assembly with steel gears blued from hardening.
View attachment 213510
I'm going to produce the 40:1 ratio for all the kits. This ratio is a great starting point as we can easily achieve overall ratios to the crankset of 44:1 all the way to 95:1 using commonly available freewheels and chainrings. This updated design fits all existing gearboxes. If someone has an issue with their 6806 bearings, they'll get the new design.
By reducing the turn count of the Astro motors by 1, we can shift more work to the gearbox and generate less heat in the motor, by quite a bit. A 4turn 3220 has winding resistance of 0.032ohm while a 3turn is 0.019ohm, almost half. The previous 3220's were 4turn and overall 40:1 ratio; the 3turn will run at 55:1 overall to produce identical performance figures, but for longer because of less heat. Same goes for the 3kW kit, instead of a 7turn at 55:1, we'll use a 6turn at 75:1. Another upside is 12s packs work great. 14s is bonus now.
Aluminum gears are 40% the weight of steel but as strong as a mild steel. New gear profile has quieted things down and 10% more output pins increases efficiency and robustness.
[youtube]8DYuSvJ-CUw[/youtube]
Oh, new spring loaded tensioners too.
-dave