D's RC Drive Kona DC1

Hi Gwhy,

in order to rejig the box we would need to do so much work with the pack it just doesn't seem viable this time around.
I would like to re-do the box and get the drive mounted internally but it's not going to happen in time for this season, if i do go that route i would have to plan the whole thing again and then it would be time to look at a new frame and if your going to do that you may as well get a new custom frame with all the parts built in and catered for prior to fitting the kit, the best option, but also most expensive and not on the cards this time.

LOL, i was going to say this morning that i would go with the majority of opinion and have the welds done :shock: BUT i was kinda hoping that Gary would say that it was my best option too, now im back to square 1 (thanks Gary!!!) lol
If we go ahead and weld then i would want the welded brackets to be blended into the frame colour as best as possible - looking at where it would be mounted the frame is black there anyway so i guess it could be made to look reasonable, that said Miles suggests more space between the sprocket and the extron so that would mean mounting further up the tube.

Dammit.

Steve, can you find out what sort of cost we are looking at to have the brackets welded on? or even if we can find anyone who is confident to do them?

Gary, i'm glad your with me, but do you have any suggestions for mounting that i haven't posted already?

One thing i'm not sure about is - are the majority saying that the mounting is too weak with a clamped solution?? is that why we favour the weld??

If we go with the welded clamps i have envisioned two plates welded to either side of the downtube giving us boltholes to bolt straight into the GB foot?? is that what we are talking about going this route?

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


Cheers,

D
 
deecanio said:
...although it fits lovely i had underestimated how much the wheel comes in towrad the post under compression, ironically its the motor itself and not the pulley that gets squished so we are temporarily screwed :cry: ...
Click to expand...

I have go back and read a few pages of your thread, I've lost track of your recent progress.

But... if it hasn't been mentioned before, why don't you just have an extended swingarm custom fabricated? Either hack the current one to extend it or have a new one fab'd up. That would let you keep the 24"s and have the clearance under compression too.

You've come to far to give up on your e-DH bike now!
 
Hi Voicecoils,

this was the first idea we had also but again it is very tricky to extend the swingarm without knowing what effect it would have on the linkage and therefore the ride, not too mention the massive forces on the swingarm that the extension would have to bear, and how tricky it would be again to weld ally well.
Also if we went that route and contiued to mount as shown in the 20" picture im still not sure if ppl are telling me that that type of mount simply won't cut it? i need this spelt out!!!


Here' s something for all of us that a freind at work told me about - looking good for the future.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7938001.stm

Cheers,

D
 
Mounting in the box means losing batterie's...there is not alot of room in there (taking out the thin x'lyte has gained 2 inches, not 4!)

I'll ask around RE welding, but I don't know anyone suitable offhand. (I'll not be asking Tony!)
 
deecanio said:
Hi Voicecoils,

im still not sure if ppl are telling me that that type of mount simply won't cut it? i need this spelt out!!!


Here' s something for all of us that a freind at work told me about - looking good for the future.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7938001.stm

Cheers,

D
Click to expand...

IMO its the only place to mount it D, for several reason...the weight is kept low down, the chain length is such a tensioner is unlikely to be required and it simply looks the ducks nuts there only downside i see is the bloody thing dont fit there with a 24in setup grrrrrr...How much room we actually talking D? as in, with a 24in mounted how much 'extra' space must we find all up to fit it (and obviously clear when suspension is depressed fully) Judging by the pics it would be in the vicinity of 4-5inches does that sound about right? Lengthening the rear swing arm i dont think is the best way for the reasons you outlined already :: sigh :: Your a mountain bike buff Deec are there any other frames that spring to mind that might be a good substitute that
you would be very happy to build an rc based e-bike on? The Stinky and hub motor could be sold VERY easily as im sure your well aware to re-coupe the costs of the frame exchange etc? Just trying to throw out some ideas mate, dont let it get you down either way mate, you will work it out and in a few months all these hassles will be forgotten as you tear around like a lunatic with an ev-grin from ear too ear hehe :)

The new battery tech is impressive, pity wont be seen for 2 years IF they decide "to go down that road" typical...more waiting :: sigh ::

EDIT:

I just did this quick photochop Deec (soz for mutilating the stinky matey LoL...This is the direction oi would look at taking IF it gave the necessary clearance. Chop the existing tube have some brackets TIGed in and then have a aluminium plate milled up to bolt in, something in the 5-6mm thickness i guess, have as much milled of the base of the drive unit as possible and bolt him directly to the newly added plate, could have this plate anodized etc...dunno if this will give you the room required? Only way i can see to go about it without dramatically changing the frame geometry (by lengthening the swing arm) Just an idea anywayz mate... :: shrugs::

middle.JPG


EDIT II :

Do these Koni Stiny frames come in differing sizes? is there a larger version perhaps? with a slightly longer swing arm to perhaps fit a 26in tyre/rim combo in? Maybe this could be used to gain a lil extra room without SEVERELY knackering the geometry? Use this in combination with the above mentioned idea possibly?

KiM
 
Cheers Joz,

maybe ask the guy who did the 2nd version of the box?
Whatever happens there are no changes to the battery box other than the swapping out of the xlyte and the putting in of the rc control gear, voltage change aside of course.
Definately dont ask Tony, we wan't it done before christmas LOL
The weld is looking favourite at the moment, if it goes tits up then i could get a new frame i suppose.
i'm still unclear on whether the guys are saying that a bracket option is too weak period??

Kim,

i would need to gain about 2.5" somehow but i'm guessing that Steve has had another couple of looks and it's a no go :cry:
won't be the end of the world mate i know, i'm just doing due dilligence (and some!!!) before i commit to irreversable changes.
It's gary's fault :mrgreen:

Cheers,

D
 
You may have missed my second edit previous page i didnt realise you had made a post appologies...


middle.JPG



"EDIT:

Do these Koni Stiny frames come in differing sizes? is there a larger version perhaps? with a slightly longer swing arm to perhaps fit a 26in tyre/rim combo in? Maybe this could be used to gain a lil extra room without SEVERELY knackering the geometry? Use this in combination with the above mentioned idea possibly?

KiM"
 
hi Kim,

im not sure mate, we did have a little nose at replacement parts (the rocker part of the suspension) and the ones we saw were one size fits all regardless of frame size.
Mines a 19" frame, chosen for size of triangle for batts, i think there may be a 20" but i dont think the swingarm would be any different in size. the one i have is designed for 26" but my 24's are more like 25's in reality.
Im not sure what your suggeting there mate? cut the seatpost and have a bracket inserted?


**EDIT** One more thing i wnat to know for Matt, you've pulled 7kw through the recumbant GB no? i'm only peaking at 5kw so what i want to know is the recumbants GB welded :?:

Cheers,

D
 
Hey Y,

nice to see you :D
the stresses involved with the swingarm are what worries us for extending it by welding - also the effect it would have on the geometry.
i wish it were that easy, then i could leave the gb mounted to the seatpost as planned but alas...... :roll:


Cheers,

D
 
I think it would open the opertunity for re-inforcing the whole thing.. once you commit to stripping the paint off.. ya know... hehe..

The stock bicycle swingarm is made light and strong enough.. but with added power and weight of the e-system a bit more meat is an easy thing to add with a weld job !

I say go for it ! :wink:
 
Lots of discussion going on here. That is good!

OK, swingarm extension is one idea. That will alter handling, though. It may be good, it may be no so good. Hard to tell without doing it.

I have been struggling with the same issue you and Gary are. The problem with "Universal" mounts is, there is no such thing as a universal mount. Bicycles are all so different there is just no way to accomodate anything other than a few of them. I can manufacture nearly anything. But it all comes down to cost. The minimum cost for the frame clamps Gary has been talking about is $90 for the two and those wouldn't even help either of you guys. So, here we are anyway. I had to machine one-off clamps for my latest build too (PITA). Thos tubes do have some straight areas, though, for clamps to mount to.

I agree with Gary about welding in one sence....... Welding is not desireable for most people to do to their bike.

That being said, however, your bike is extremely radical anyway. Welding to it is not a big deal. I am going to have to weld onto my mountain bike to get a drive on it as well.

Of the drives I have sold, I am not aware of more than one person (Oofnik) that has a relatively standard frame that a wrap around clamp will work on. Most people are in our same boat.

I like Kim's idea as well as the down tube mount. Both, however, require welding.

Hmm, I will think on this some more and see if I can come up with other solutions.

Hey, wait a minute, if the batt box was modded, you could mount a second additional pack where you are looking at puting the drive right now. That would give you a two part pack and get the drive into the triangle with the rest of your pack? Thoughts?

Matt
 
deecanio said:
Im not sure what your suggeting there mate? cut the seatpost and have a bracket inserted?
Click to expand...

Exactly as per my photochop mate. Could either have brackets welded in then bolt in a cnced piece to mount the drive unit too
or how i would do it, simply weld it directly in place of the tube... This seatpost idea you have, do you mean using the seatpost the seat is mounted on? If so WHY :-S its so damn high up and the chain would have that much slack in tiz nutz mate. If lengthening the swingarm is a 'must' it could be done so its stronger than standard bud, simply insert tubing inside the swing arm to reinforce it prior to welding it back up with extension added... The more i look at it the simpler i see it being to be honest all you need is access to TIG and alloy ...doesnt Jozz have that?

KiM
 
Hmm, if thte swingarm was only lengthened an inch or two, that would affect handling enough to feel.

What about machined swingarm extensions rather than welded extensions?

Matt
 
recumpence said:
Hmm, if thte swingarm was only lengthened an inch or two, that would affect handling enough to feel.

What about machined swingarm extensions rather than welded extensions?

Matt
Click to expand...

I doubt an inch extension will do squat TBH Mr R..hell, suuuurely the 8-10kilo? of batteries up front plus the weight of the motor/drive unit the bike wasn't designed for has already altered things, you really think it handles as it was designed to now with a hub motor hanging off the back? Heck the extension might even be a good thing, getting the weight of the wheel back slightly might help balance things out more... im with YPedal...just go for it worse case scenario it turns to crap and you have to get a new frame, whats the other alternative here, get a new frame...

KiM
 
I'd prefer mounting plates on downtube rather than swingarm extension, alot less risk of weakening to the point of a break, and alot easier and quicker too. Less chance of altering the ride, and you wont be sacrificing your wheelie's!
Although the bike may not ride as it was intended, it does riude very nicely. It would be a shame to change it unless you were sure its for the better..

I use an inverter MIG for ally welding, and don't feel confident enough to attack something that needs to look so pretty. I can send BoB round the industrial estate to find someone though (hopefully he wont get molested too much:p)
 
Jozzer said:
and you wont be sacrificing your wheelie's!
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt with all that extra power hes now got lifting the front up will be an issue quite the contrary keeping it on the black stuff will be the challenge ...im off to bed anywayz i'm sure the clever heads will have some better ideas and some neat AUtoCad diagrams of ideas by morning HAHAHA...good luck Deec :)

KiM
 
we did look at extending the swingarm as one of our first thoughts.
Initially prior to the discussion of welding we too thought about a machined extension, probably where the swingarm pivots, adding a block to that part so the swingarm bolts through the block then the block attaches to the pivot point on the frame, concerns were again stress related.

taking a step back, we still need to know why everyone is against the seatpost mounts? IF wheel clearence was NOT an issue are we saying that we dont think the mount will suffice in clamp to tube form or not?
is the recumbant drive welded?

As far as displacement of the cells to the seatpost is concerned i had thought something similair Matt but my idea was to displace the electronics to that area, reshape the pack and fit the drive into the bottom corner of the batt box neat the bb, however this would mean serious rejigging again and the gb is too wide to fit in the box, may work with the pulleys on the outside but major grief to setup imo.

Kim,

no no, mounted tothe seatube not seat post - exactly as it is in the 20" wheel collapsed photo, low by the bb.
I'm still not convinced that a cut and shut is a good idea.
I cannot get over the fact that everyone is suggesting frame changes to accomadate the drive because we have a mounting issue - it justs like a sledghammer to crack a nut approach - i will understand more if someone comes right out and sais that a clamped solution isn't strong enough but no one is???? are they????
hehehehe, night mate.

Joz,

the downtube mount is looking fav still but i'm glad we chucked it out there to get more suggestions.
Tell bob to be careful on the ind est LMAO.
Why worry about making it look pretty? it's not like your customer is the most bloody minded demanding guy in the world.is it? :wink:


cheers,

D
 
deecanio said:
I cannot get over the fact that everyone is suggesting frame changes to accomadate the drive because we have a mounting issue - it justs like a sledghammer to crack a nut approach - i will understand more if someone comes right out and sais that a clamped solution isn't strong enough but no one is???? are they????


cheers,

D
Click to expand...

LOL Deec... because its the only option mate, as is it simply will not fit, clamps or no clamps it just wont go, forget clamps you cant use them on this frame end of story. Its not a "mounting issue" it a matter of making enough space to fit it in....Unless you can tell me how these clamps your so keen to use to miraculously gain you that 2.5in its a null point as fair as i can see...? On another frame they might be strong enough i have said in the drive unit thread i wouldnt be trusting them after seeing 3mm steel mounts i welded to an upright twist under hard acceleration...There arent alot of option buddy, its lengthen the swing arm, or cut the upright tube replacing it with plate ally to get the clearance required a combination of both OR move the motor to the front which will require a new battery housing which you have said you dont want to do...
 
ahhhhhhh.

:oops: .

feck.
weld the wings bro, weld the wings.


D
 
I do get your apprehension mate i do, cutting into such a lovely frame must be gutting you :-( Look at it this way though Deec, you will have a the first modded Koni Stinky with RC motor and MR Drive unit to boast about, when your tearing up on it i seriously doubt you will care how its mounted LoL and done well which im sure Jozzer will you not hardly going to see the alterations anywayz buddy, the drive will be slotted in to the plate (if thats how you do it) you will see the tube extending either side of the drive unit, could look stock done right IMO... I am the first to reach for the angle grinder cut first and think latter though LoL <--prolly doesnt instill much confidence does it LOL... will all be good Deec...

KiM
 
weld the wings mate.
i'll consider all these suggestions next time around and plan for them all with a new frame for next year.
i'd like to know how much more gap between the chain and etrox miles would like to see, and mount as low on the downtube that accomadates this.
Maybe, just maybe we can make them look sweet if we can keep them in the black section of the downtube?


D
 
Hi Miles,

indeed, but we want to keep the chain length short as possible too in order to guard it.
how much is enough when we are 12t-80t? by default the 12 wont have much more wrap even if we move away a few inches?

D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Nucular 24F with Display
Replies
1
Views
592
Amperry417
A
N
Newbie NEEDS Help/Suggestions for new build
Replies
12
Views
511
MxusMick
M
neptronix
    • Like
Endless Sphere knowledgebase system ( zeropress ) and funding drive
2 3 4 5
Replies
104
Views
17,415
neptronix
neptronix
bananu7
    • Like
2008 CRF250R - QS138v3 70H - ANT - Sanyo UR18650-RX 20s20p - Votol EM260
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
184
Views
12,069
bananu7
bananu7
Squilt
    • Like
4kW dropout mounted RC drive
Replies
10
Views
2,280
Squilt
Squilt
Back
Top