D's RC Drive Kona DC1
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
recumpence
1 GW
Miles said:recumpence said:
Passive or active?
Active.
Matt
hehehehe, indeed bubba :lol:
Anyway, back on track, in asnwer to your question the other day gwhy, with the rear off the ground and opening the throttle full the amps spikes at 16a briefly then runs at wot with a reading of between 4a and 4.5a?
Cheers,
D
Anyway, back on track, in asnwer to your question the other day gwhy, with the rear off the ground and opening the throttle full the amps spikes at 16a briefly then runs at wot with a reading of between 4a and 4.5a?
Cheers,
D
gwhy!
100 kW
deecanio said:
Thanks for this D.
Ypedal
100 TW
Hey D .. i know the details are deep in this thread, but with the current battery setup, what do you have for Ah and how much range are you getting on a charge when riding like in those video's !! ( awsome trails you have there D !! .. jealous i am ) ?
hey Y,
yes wayyyy too much to wade through i know
i have 8.8ah - i'd used 6.7ah on that day over around 7.5 miles but i was gunning as much as poss
i haven't hit LVC yet as i normally go out with an hour before dark, that way there's less ppl about to point and shout LOL but i guess i could pull 7.5ah with no probs, i'll let you know once i hit LVC, however if i had lipo i could up that range but i am totally happy with my 123's knowing they are 100% safe and really reliable, i've shorted the pack, let it go to 0 volts and they still perform like champs, but lets not get into that whole batt chemistry debate again.
I suspect i could get more or less 10 miles riding like that before lvc, i'll let you know at the weekend btw with the charger i'm now using with Gary's/Andy H's balancer im fully charged now in 50 mins!!! eventually i'll get 2 packs quick swappable which will mean perpetual riding posibility
by the way i think your going to lurve your 3210 dually, they really are awesome, when all is said and done the system works, i dont know if it would climb everest, i don't know the motors true mathmatical measurements, i also don't have gps or any route plotting/data logging devices, HOWEVER,I do know that little 3210 and hv110 absolutley hauls ass and would beat the snot out of my puma on all fronts
The trails are great, part of epping forest which is 23kmx17km of pure mtb bliss, quite hilly, all gorgeous, more of it next time around as i'll try to take the helmet cam out next time, means i have to wear the helmet which is a mixed blessing, safer yes, but draws more attention to my bike.
gwhy - your welcome
Cheers,
D
yes wayyyy too much to wade through i know
i have 8.8ah - i'd used 6.7ah on that day over around 7.5 miles but i was gunning as much as poss
i haven't hit LVC yet as i normally go out with an hour before dark, that way there's less ppl about to point and shout LOL but i guess i could pull 7.5ah with no probs, i'll let you know once i hit LVC, however if i had lipo i could up that range but i am totally happy with my 123's knowing they are 100% safe and really reliable, i've shorted the pack, let it go to 0 volts and they still perform like champs, but lets not get into that whole batt chemistry debate again.
I suspect i could get more or less 10 miles riding like that before lvc, i'll let you know at the weekend
btw with the charger i'm now using with Gary's/Andy H's balancer im fully charged now in 50 mins!!! eventually i'll get 2 packs quick swappable which will mean perpetual riding posibility by the way i think your going to lurve your 3210 dually, they really are awesome, when all is said and done the system works, i dont know if it would climb everest, i don't know the motors true mathmatical measurements, i also don't have gps or any route plotting/data logging devices, HOWEVER,I do know that little 3210 and hv110 absolutley hauls ass and would beat the snot out of my puma on all fronts
The trails are great, part of epping forest which is 23kmx17km of pure mtb bliss, quite hilly, all gorgeous, more of it next time around as i'll try to take the helmet cam out next time, means i have to wear the helmet which is a mixed blessing, safer yes, but draws more attention to my bike.
gwhy - your welcome
Cheers,
D
methods
1 GW
Do you get stink eye from the nature folk while riding that thing around?
I noticed while riding my Cyclone Primo on trails I got a great deal more stink eye... Not sure if this was due to the noise or the appearance of a motor & chains (which I guess look more like a motorized vehicle).
When I ride any of my bikes with a hub motor I usually just get quizzical looks.
I often remember what you told me when I first came on the board - something to the effect of "keep it out of site and keep it longer"
I have had a couple of close calls with the law (law being defined as anybody who can yell "Get the HELL out of here with that thing!)
I am starting to yearn for a truly private forest to ride in... I hate feeling like a criminal.
-methods
I noticed while riding my Cyclone Primo on trails I got a great deal more stink eye... Not sure if this was due to the noise or the appearance of a motor & chains (which I guess look more like a motorized vehicle).
When I ride any of my bikes with a hub motor I usually just get quizzical looks.
I often remember what you told me when I first came on the board - something to the effect of "keep it out of site and keep it longer"
I have had a couple of close calls with the law (law being defined as anybody who can yell "Get the HELL out of here with that thing!)
I am starting to yearn for a truly private forest to ride in... I hate feeling like a criminal.
-methods
Hi Methy,
no problems with stink eye thus far, i stick to my own advice - if fewer people see it your chances of running into trouble are greatly reduced, i always run respectably meaning if people are around i don't power up, if i come across walkers particularly with dogs i scrub all speed, stop if i have to, always give them priority on single track etc, its always greated with a "thanks" or an "evening/morning".
If your going to romp around regardless of who's about sooner or later the real law will be onto you, they'll apply pocket bike law and you'll be shagged
I've only had one small incident from a horserider - i'd pulled over to the side of the bridleway/fireroad to not spook the horses and the riders (2 women) stopped next to me, "is that a motor?" she quizzed with a pissy look on her face, "regenerative electricity" i replied (slight lie but meh) , her look changed and she rode on appeased that i wasn't gassing in the forest didn't seem to worry the bike was powered i guess because it is fairly green. This was when i had two massive lipo's sticking out the side of the frame and a hub mind, the bike is a lot more stealth now to look at although louder when powered.
I do get strange looks from the MTB'ers mainly, i think that when you pass another cyclist it's natural curiosity to see what they're riding, guaranteed once i pass them they will either stop or slow right down for a better look, no one has actually said anything yet they just want to have another look, again bear in mind that i dont power past them, im either freewheeling or giving it some pedal assist, again this pisses no one off so theres no problem.
In my opinion it would only take one or two reports to the local police to cause me an issue so my approach is this:
ride at the right time, early morning, just before dark.
Be courteous to all other users, even if they are objectionable a polite response normally leads to exchange of info, telling them to f off will get their back up and likely result in a report to the police.
if i do all this, and i do, then everything is always fine, of course once we get to the police stage (if ever) i will argue my bike is legal and if the current setting is minimal, it is!!! but i think that stage is best avoided to begin with - prevention is better than cure and all that.
i know what you mean about feeling like a criminal, its sad really, we all know the unjustness of it all, its not like we are selling crack or any of the other crap that goes on in this world.... BUT at the end of the day we are all running "illegal" rigs so i believe my approach is the right one, if you don't want any problems at least make the effort to not cause your own.
this is mostly why i dont wear a helmet also, less safe unyet safer
Cheers,
D
no problems with stink eye thus far, i stick to my own advice - if fewer people see it your chances of running into trouble are greatly reduced, i always run respectably meaning if people are around i don't power up, if i come across walkers particularly with dogs i scrub all speed, stop if i have to, always give them priority on single track etc, its always greated with a "thanks" or an "evening/morning".
If your going to romp around regardless of who's about sooner or later the real law will be onto you, they'll apply pocket bike law and you'll be shagged
I've only had one small incident from a horserider - i'd pulled over to the side of the bridleway/fireroad to not spook the horses and the riders (2 women) stopped next to me, "is that a motor?" she quizzed with a pissy look on her face, "regenerative electricity" i replied (slight lie but meh) , her look changed and she rode on appeased that i wasn't gassing in the forest didn't seem to worry the bike was powered i guess because it is fairly green. This was when i had two massive lipo's sticking out the side of the frame and a hub mind, the bike is a lot more stealth now to look at although louder when powered.
I do get strange looks from the MTB'ers mainly, i think that when you pass another cyclist it's natural curiosity to see what they're riding, guaranteed once i pass them they will either stop or slow right down for a better look, no one has actually said anything yet they just want to have another look, again bear in mind that i dont power past them, im either freewheeling or giving it some pedal assist, again this pisses no one off so theres no problem.
In my opinion it would only take one or two reports to the local police to cause me an issue so my approach is this:
ride at the right time, early morning, just before dark.
Be courteous to all other users, even if they are objectionable a polite response normally leads to exchange of info, telling them to f off will get their back up and likely result in a report to the police.
if i do all this, and i do, then everything is always fine, of course once we get to the police stage (if ever) i will argue my bike is legal and if the current setting is minimal, it is!!! but i think that stage is best avoided to begin with - prevention is better than cure and all that.
i know what you mean about feeling like a criminal, its sad really, we all know the unjustness of it all, its not like we are selling crack or any of the other crap that goes on in this world.... BUT at the end of the day we are all running "illegal" rigs so i believe my approach is the right one, if you don't want any problems at least make the effort to not cause your own.
this is mostly why i dont wear a helmet also, less safe unyet safer
Cheers,
D
lesdit
100 W
"regenerative electricity" LOL, I'll have to remember that one. You should have also pointed to some horse poop and pointed out all the flies. I hate horses on the trails. I was riding an electric stand up scooter on an easy trail once when the forest ranger, an American Indian, passed by on a horse. Gulp... I was on *his* land, so to speak ! He looked at me and didn't care ! ( I did start kick pushing it when I saw him, so that helped )
As far as other bikers, I'll be respective of 'regular' mountain bikers, but not the yahoo DH bikers with the storm trooper outfits. They think they are superior to everyone, and I can't wait to ride past them uphill .
-L
As far as other bikers, I'll be respective of 'regular' mountain bikers, but not the yahoo DH bikers with the storm trooper outfits. They think they are superior to everyone, and I can't wait to ride past them uphill
.-L
deecanio said:
Hi All,
something strange happening with my bike at the mo, i took it for a ride on tuesday after i had charged it on the sunday, as soon as i hit the power i noticed that i had lost some zip from the performance seen in the video, my voltage was 49.1v so i assumed that because i not charged right before i went out it may have been a little low so after a brief underpowered ride i went home.
last night i recharged fully and went out soon as i was charged, again it seemed underpowered compared to last sundays ride, maybe even 20% less zippy? weird. the voltage was 53v after charge and this soon dropped to 50/49v which seemed normal, there was no noticable voltage sag and i was pulling 2.5kw no problem but the bike still seemed to accelerate slower than it did last week, i know this as from the vid you can see i couldn't pedal much before the power kicked in and i was gone but now it was taking more time to get to the point of pedaling not helping, slower take off in other words.Worrying that i may be having pack problems i decided to ride it out and see what i could pull from the pack and keep an eye on the voltage for any signs of problems, i pulled a good 7.5ah from the pack and there was no noticable voltage sag until near the end (usual for A123) i hit 2.5kw often,no problems, and the bike behaved at this level for the duration of the ride?
On getting home i checked all the readings and everything checked out ok, one thing that did make me wonder was the max amp draw, 82a? i had checked this whilst riding and initially only had 62a max, must have spiked at 82 on a hill or something.
Now i know that on the day of the video when it was a good deal more spritely i max amped at 95a? i remember saying that i was suprised it had hit this as when i tweaked Richards throttle box i had guestimated that i had tweaked it to 75a or so.
Sooo if on Sunday i was hitting 95a ish often but yesterday i was hitting more like 70a that would make sense to the performance hit i was feeling but i haven't changed any of the settings?
Is it possible that this is some kind of "bedding in" quirk?
i do have scope to ramp the throttle box up more so i will try that - it would make sense that the difference in performance was due to less amps being available as everything else seems normal but i dont understand any logical reason as to why it would be great on the sunday but less so yesterday with no changes being made?
I'll pop the amps up on the throttle box and go again as i miss that zip but if anyone could offer an explanation as to why this may be that would be great?
Also can i ask - does anyone know which version of the castle software has the 8mhz setting for the PWM? yesterday was the hottest day in the uk this year and my motor temp was edging toward 70c (30c ambient) so i thought as im in the batt box upping the amps i may as well put the PWM to 8mhz while im there, the heat saving going from 26Mhz to 13Mhz was very significant so i'm hoping to save a little more by reducing to 8Mhz, this would let me blaze away on even the hottest day.
One more thing, i think Gary G said that he runs his motor timing as "normal" can someone confirm?
I think i will put my motor braking on again at a very low level, having it off means that when i stop throttling there is a bit of "run on" like a second or two delay so i'll try that setting at 10% and go from there.
Cheers Guys,
D
something strange happening with my bike at the mo, i took it for a ride on tuesday after i had charged it on the sunday, as soon as i hit the power i noticed that i had lost some zip from the performance seen in the video, my voltage was 49.1v so i assumed that because i not charged right before i went out it may have been a little low so after a brief underpowered ride i went home.
last night i recharged fully and went out soon as i was charged, again it seemed underpowered compared to last sundays ride, maybe even 20% less zippy? weird. the voltage was 53v after charge and this soon dropped to 50/49v which seemed normal, there was no noticable voltage sag and i was pulling 2.5kw no problem but the bike still seemed to accelerate slower than it did last week, i know this as from the vid you can see i couldn't pedal much before the power kicked in and i was gone but now it was taking more time to get to the point of pedaling not helping, slower take off in other words.Worrying that i may be having pack problems i decided to ride it out and see what i could pull from the pack and keep an eye on the voltage for any signs of problems, i pulled a good 7.5ah from the pack and there was no noticable voltage sag until near the end (usual for A123) i hit 2.5kw often,no problems, and the bike behaved at this level for the duration of the ride?
On getting home i checked all the readings and everything checked out ok, one thing that did make me wonder was the max amp draw, 82a? i had checked this whilst riding and initially only had 62a max, must have spiked at 82 on a hill or something.
Now i know that on the day of the video when it was a good deal more spritely i max amped at 95a? i remember saying that i was suprised it had hit this as when i tweaked Richards throttle box i had guestimated that i had tweaked it to 75a or so.
Sooo if on Sunday i was hitting 95a ish often but yesterday i was hitting more like 70a that would make sense to the performance hit i was feeling but i haven't changed any of the settings?
Is it possible that this is some kind of "bedding in" quirk?
i do have scope to ramp the throttle box up more so i will try that - it would make sense that the difference in performance was due to less amps being available as everything else seems normal but i dont understand any logical reason as to why it would be great on the sunday but less so yesterday with no changes being made?
I'll pop the amps up on the throttle box and go again as i miss that zip
but if anyone could offer an explanation as to why this may be that would be great?Also can i ask - does anyone know which version of the castle software has the 8mhz setting for the PWM? yesterday was the hottest day in the uk this year and my motor temp was edging toward 70c (30c ambient) so i thought as im in the batt box upping the amps i may as well put the PWM to 8mhz while im there, the heat saving going from 26Mhz to 13Mhz was very significant so i'm hoping to save a little more by reducing to 8Mhz, this would let me blaze away on even the hottest day.
One more thing, i think Gary G said that he runs his motor timing as "normal" can someone confirm?
I think i will put my motor braking on again at a very low level, having it off means that when i stop throttling there is a bit of "run on" like a second or two delay so i'll try that setting at 10% and go from there.
Cheers Guys,
D
recumpence
1 GW
D,
I have found that if I set my throttle end point pot for my trike (not current limiter, but end point pot) at a certain point for a ride, shut it down and go back out the next day, the performance changes a touch. I have to re-fine tune the pot to my liking again. Not sure if there is a bit of pot wander or inconsistancy going on, but it sounds like you are encountering the same thing.
My firmware only goes down to (I think) 13khz. So, not sure about the 8khz question.
Matt
I have found that if I set my throttle end point pot for my trike (not current limiter, but end point pot) at a certain point for a ride, shut it down and go back out the next day, the performance changes a touch. I have to re-fine tune the pot to my liking again. Not sure if there is a bit of pot wander or inconsistancy going on, but it sounds like you are encountering the same thing.
My firmware only goes down to (I think) 13khz. So, not sure about the 8khz question.
Matt
Hi Matt,
thanks for the input, sorry but i dont understand, is the throttle end point a castle setting? this would make sense if i wasn't getting full throttle from a software point of view but i've never touched that setting either? mmmm weird.
Next time i hook up the software i'll be sure and note all my settings, somethings changed for sure.
i'll ask Gary where i find the 8Khz setting, i think it's on a earlier version of the castle software but not sure which one, i'll download an early version and just see if i can change that setting then use the latest one again, perhaps Gary knows which version?
Cheers,
D
thanks for the input, sorry but i dont understand, is the throttle end point a castle setting? this would make sense if i wasn't getting full throttle from a software point of view but i've never touched that setting either? mmmm weird.
Next time i hook up the software i'll be sure and note all my settings, somethings changed for sure.
i'll ask Gary where i find the 8Khz setting, i think it's on a earlier version of the castle software but not sure which one, i'll download an early version and just see if i can change that setting then use the latest one again, perhaps Gary knows which version?
Cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
My throttle end point pot is something you do not have. It is something I added. I just pointed that out to say that potentiometers can sort of drift or slighly change from sitting. Or, at least, mine does.
Matt
Matt
GGoodrum
1 MW
According to the instructions for manually programming the ESC, the available settings are 12kHz, 16kHz, 24kHz and "Outrunner Mode". I can't get into the software without the controller being hooked up, so I can't check it right now. In any case, you won't see much of difference in temps between anything lower than 24kHz. This setting mainly affects the low-speed "chatter". It pretty much stops at 24kHz, but it does make the controller run hotter. At 16, the temp drops, and the chatter is minimized. Like Bob told me originally, 20 kHz would be perfect. Anyway, I wouldn't lower it below 16kHz.
What will lower your temps is to switch to "Low Timing", which is basically zero advance. "Normal Timing" puts in 5-10 degrees of advance, based on load. When your days start getting cooler, you can switch it back to "Normal".
As for your change-in-performance problem, it could simply be a temp shift-related issue in the current limiter circuit. Or, maybe the pot setting changed, from being bounced around a bit. Try maxing it out, and try again.
Another thing it could be is maybe a loose connection in the pack connections. I had this happen with my 15s4p, and it caused the max amps I could get to be less, like you are seeing. You can check this with a WattsUp, if you are using one. Just look at the "Vm" reading, which shows the minimum the voltage dropped down to, during the max load. With my pack, hitting 93A the voltage drops to about 44V. When I had a problem with a loose connection, the max I could hit was about 60A, and the Vm number was like 38V, I think.
-- Gary
What will lower your temps is to switch to "Low Timing", which is basically zero advance. "Normal Timing" puts in 5-10 degrees of advance, based on load. When your days start getting cooler, you can switch it back to "Normal".
As for your change-in-performance problem, it could simply be a temp shift-related issue in the current limiter circuit. Or, maybe the pot setting changed, from being bounced around a bit. Try maxing it out, and try again.
Another thing it could be is maybe a loose connection in the pack connections. I had this happen with my 15s4p, and it caused the max amps I could get to be less, like you are seeing. You can check this with a WattsUp, if you are using one. Just look at the "Vm" reading, which shows the minimum the voltage dropped down to, during the max load. With my pack, hitting 93A the voltage drops to about 44V. When I had a problem with a loose connection, the max I could hit was about 60A, and the Vm number was like 38V, I think.
-- Gary
Hi Gary,
thank you for the steer.
I will leave the PWM set to 13Khz. the difference between 13 and 24khz really was vast as far as temp is concerned - initially a 30 sec blast saw the esc soar to 80c whereas now it barely goes over 60 and that's with continous bursts, it may be that my temps are more sensitive than others as my esc is enclosed but certainly lowering the PWM solved that problem with one setting change, i don't power from standstill so the start up chatter isn't a problem for me.
i think my timing is already on low, i'll check that tomorrow, my voltage doesn't seem to drop to the kind of voltage you were seeing with a loose connection so i'll try just upping the throttle box initially and see how it goes tomorrow, but again thanks for the steer, at least i know what to look at now if the problem persists.
A few more tweaks on the software and i'll try again, im hoping my chain guide will turn up tomorrow so i can fit that also and then ride with some more confidence up on the pedals
Cheers,
D
thank you for the steer.
I will leave the PWM set to 13Khz. the difference between 13 and 24khz really was vast as far as temp is concerned - initially a 30 sec blast saw the esc soar to 80c whereas now it barely goes over 60 and that's with continous bursts, it may be that my temps are more sensitive than others as my esc is enclosed but certainly lowering the PWM solved that problem with one setting change, i don't power from standstill so the start up chatter isn't a problem for me.
i think my timing is already on low, i'll check that tomorrow, my voltage doesn't seem to drop to the kind of voltage you were seeing with a loose connection so i'll try just upping the throttle box initially and see how it goes tomorrow, but again thanks for the steer, at least i know what to look at now if the problem persists.
A few more tweaks on the software and i'll try again, im hoping my chain guide will turn up tomorrow so i can fit that also and then ride with some more confidence up on the pedals
Cheers,
D
GGoodrum
1 MW
Okay, good. The controller should be happy now. How about the motor temp? Is it getting warm as well, or just the ESC? If the motor is doing okay, you can get a boost in performance by going to "normal" timing, which puts in 5-10 degrees of advance, which these motors seem quite happy with.
-- Gary
How about the motor temp? Is it getting warm as well, or just the ESC? If the motor is doing okay, you can get a boost in performance by going to "normal" timing, which puts in 5-10 degrees of advance, which these motors seem quite happy with. -- Gary
motor temp seems just fine, indeed esc was ok, i think that the temps i was seeing the other were down to two things, firstly it was nearly 30c ambient and secondly the high temps i saw were mostly when i was playing in the bowls which meant short quarter throttle bursts, all to pull me up the other side of the dips, not the best scenario for motor or esc i know 
but i was having a LOT of fun .
once i'd stopped playing and headed home on the bridleway the motor and esc temp dropped to around 45c and that was even powering continous in places, i think that because i was travelling above 20-25mph the wind cooled the motor very quickly and it was totally happy to run at full throttle all the time whereas previously i was doing no speed at all and only partial throttling uphill whilst i rode in and out of the bowls - soon as i hit a straight all temps reduced to a fine level.
i thought i'd try the 8mhz setting if i could just to help keep things cooler but really it was my riding that was causing the issue.
i use my pack pretty quickly now because i dont have any option to pedal only, the drag is too much even on flat which leaves me asking for motor assist constantly, of course i could (and do ) ask for partial throttle and help on the pedals but this leads to quick gear changes leaving the motor always running at low rmp, not good but its this or no pedal assist at all which is often the case.
i'm keeping a very keen eye on your direct drive activities, i'm falling short of perfect because i dont have the ability to pedal only, something i would do much much more if i could, the power is only needed to help uphill and over rough tbh.
The best setup i have had so far was the 3 chainrings at the front and the puma - that way i had three pedal gears jumping from 22t32t42t at the front giving me assist right up to 25mph and independant power from the hub as and when i wanted it, this was perfect except the hub was heavy and couldn't stand up to the pounding.
What i need is the same independant drive sytem but using the rc motor - eventually we'll get there but for now im virtually power only which has it's fun but not as good as either or, in an ideal setup i'd like to lose all the reduction too, just a can size direct drive like the 3220 your working on, maybe next season eh?
Cheers,
D
but i was having a LOT of fun .once i'd stopped playing and headed home on the bridleway the motor and esc temp dropped to around 45c and that was even powering continous in places, i think that because i was travelling above 20-25mph the wind cooled the motor very quickly and it was totally happy to run at full throttle all the time whereas previously i was doing no speed at all and only partial throttling uphill whilst i rode in and out of the bowls - soon as i hit a straight all temps reduced to a fine level.
i thought i'd try the 8mhz setting if i could just to help keep things cooler but really it was my riding that was causing the issue.
i use my pack pretty quickly now because i dont have any option to pedal only, the drag is too much even on flat which leaves me asking for motor assist constantly, of course i could (and do
) ask for partial throttle and help on the pedals but this leads to quick gear changes leaving the motor always running at low rmp, not good but its this or no pedal assist at all which is often the case.i'm keeping a very keen eye on your direct drive activities, i'm falling short of perfect because i dont have the ability to pedal only, something i would do much much more if i could, the power is only needed to help uphill and over rough tbh.
The best setup i have had so far was the 3 chainrings at the front and the puma - that way i had three pedal gears jumping from 22t32t42t at the front giving me assist right up to 25mph and independant power from the hub as and when i wanted it, this was perfect except the hub was heavy and couldn't stand up to the pounding.
What i need is the same independant drive sytem but using the rc motor - eventually we'll get there but for now im virtually power only which has it's fun but not as good as either or, in an ideal setup i'd like to lose all the reduction too, just a can size direct drive like the 3220 your working on, maybe next season eh?
Cheers,
D
GGoodrum
1 MW
I think there might be a solution to this in your future. If you can get by with 3 speeds for pedaling, you could do a direct-drive to the hub for the motor, and a freewheel for the pedal chain. You could go back to a 3-sprocket front dérailleur, and tailor these to your desired cadence, etc. A 3220 won't need 3 speeds, especially for your relatively narrow speed range, and we can get two speeds with delta-wye switching, and that provides a ratio change of 1.73:1. The only real issue/problem to solve to make all this work is getting a 3rd freewheel for the motor, so that you won't have any cogging affecting your pedal-only performance. The cogging on mine, however, is a lot less drag on the pedals than my other two-stage setup which has a freewheel on the 1st stage, like yours. The only real problem I have is that when the motor turns fast enough it generates enough power that the ESC comes on and then it is like you hit the brakes.
Anyway, Miles started a new thread on this whole "parallel drive" concept, which includes looking into ways of solving the motor cog problem. I'm sure we will get it sorted out eventually, but I don't know if it will be in time for this "season" for you. We don't really have seasons where I'm at. In any case, when you are ready, you can trade in your 3210 to me for a 3220. I'm finding that a 3220 is just too much motor for a 20" folding bike. I'm going to break something on my body for sure. I've got two other folding bikes to convert still, one of which is a 16" Dahon Curve D3. Your 10-turn 3210 will be a good fit for this one.
-- Gary
If you can get by with 3 speeds for pedaling, you could do a direct-drive to the hub for the motor, and a freewheel for the pedal chain. You could go back to a 3-sprocket front dérailleur, and tailor these to your desired cadence, etc. A 3220 won't need 3 speeds, especially for your relatively narrow speed range, and we can get two speeds with delta-wye switching, and that provides a ratio change of 1.73:1. The only real issue/problem to solve to make all this work is getting a 3rd freewheel for the motor, so that you won't have any cogging affecting your pedal-only performance. The cogging on mine, however, is a lot less drag on the pedals than my other two-stage setup which has a freewheel on the 1st stage, like yours. The only real problem I have is that when the motor turns fast enough it generates enough power that the ESC comes on and then it is like you hit the brakes. Anyway, Miles started a new thread on this whole "parallel drive" concept, which includes looking into ways of solving the motor cog problem. I'm sure we will get it sorted out eventually, but I don't know if it will be in time for this "season" for you. We don't really have seasons where I'm at.
In any case, when you are ready, you can trade in your 3210 to me for a 3220. I'm finding that a 3220 is just too much motor for a 20" folding bike. I'm going to break something on my body for sure. I've got two other folding bikes to convert still, one of which is a 16" Dahon Curve D3. Your 10-turn 3210 will be a good fit for this one. -- Gary
OMG,
i just posted on this exact idea on that thread as i read that first.
Indeed Gary this is my future build, the only good thing about having a season is when its over the only thing to do id tinker with the setup
If you need a 3210 and i need a 3220 as i suspect we are set
the triple chainring up front for manual is the way to go for me i think, but as you say i need to figure out how to get the motor to run independantly, i think i may be missing something as you mention the need for three freewheels?
Either way for sure this is the way i need to go, direct drive, independant of the pedals and back to three chainrings up front for my gearing.
I really think this will be the final setup for a lot of us.
If i use a 3220 and stick with my #219 which im very pleased with and lets say i go from a 80t to 100t extron that would give me direct drive from 11t to 100t 9:1 yes? what winding would i want in a 3220 and would i be able to achieve great torque and a top end of 30mph with wye delta switching?
cheers,
D
i just posted on this exact idea on that thread as i read that first.
Indeed Gary this is my future build, the only good thing about having a season is when its over the only thing to do id tinker with the setup
If you need a 3210 and i need a 3220 as i suspect we are set
the triple chainring up front for manual is the way to go for me i think, but as you say i need to figure out how to get the motor to run independantly, i think i may be missing something as you mention the need for three freewheels?
Either way for sure this is the way i need to go, direct drive, independant of the pedals and back to three chainrings up front for my gearing.
I really think this will be the final setup for a lot of us.
If i use a 3220 and stick with my #219 which im very pleased with and lets say i go from a 80t to 100t extron that would give me direct drive from 11t to 100t 9:1 yes? what winding would i want in a 3220 and would i be able to achieve great torque and a top end of 30mph with wye delta switching?
cheers,
D
GGoodrum
1 MW
deecanio said:
I think I'd go with an 8-turn 3220, which has a kV of 84 in wye and 145 in delta. With a 100t/11T reduction, that should give you tree-pulling torque in wye mode, with a top speed of about 25, and then in delta mode, your top speed should go up over 40. This is assuming you are still using your 15s4p a123 packs setup, which I assume you are happy with, right?
-- Gary
Hi Gary,
yeh very happy with the 123's - just got back from a ride after fitting a twin chain guide, didn't help and the chain came off again after a bit of rough, really annoying me at the mo, doesn't give me any confidence to get up on the pedals, upped the amps but still topping out at 88a? maybe my pack does have a loose connection, i'll ask Steve to check it out next time it's in the shop,although i'll max out the box the first, i only gave it a tweak and it was better but not as good as the first ride, oh i also changed the timing to normal although i didn't notice any differnce,still it performed pretty well tho tbh and i did have some fun,it makes me smile evry time i juice up and then hit some air i still really miss pedaling tho and i'm doing my pack way to quickly as is :lol:
i'm verging on buying a pedal only dh'er
i need something to ride that i can just take out and thrash in all weathers and the kona is not what i'd called finished, another round of money is looming for another change and i'm not sure i can be bikeless so i think i'll get another dh'er/freeride for just riding normally.
even if i switch to the 3220, we still have this independent drives issue, man so close but so far
how much more electronics is needed for delta/wye switching ??? can it be changed instantly like a motor gear?
D
yeh very happy with the 123's - just got back from a ride after fitting a twin chain guide, didn't help and the chain came off again after a bit of rough, really annoying me at the mo, doesn't give me any confidence to get up on the pedals, upped the amps but still topping out at 88a? maybe my pack does have a loose connection, i'll ask Steve to check it out next time it's in the shop,although i'll max out the box the first, i only gave it a tweak and it was better but not as good as the first ride, oh i also changed the timing to normal although i didn't notice any differnce,still it performed pretty well tho tbh and i did have some fun,it makes me smile evry time i juice up and then hit some air
i still really miss pedaling tho and i'm doing my pack way to quickly as is :lol: i'm verging on buying a pedal only dh'er
i need something to ride that i can just take out and thrash in all weathers and the kona is not what i'd called finished, another round of money is looming for another change and i'm not sure i can be bikeless so i think i'll get another dh'er/freeride for just riding normally.
even if i switch to the 3220, we still have this independent drives issue, man so close but so far
how much more electronics is needed for delta/wye switching ??? can it be changed instantly like a motor gear?
D
voicecoils
1 MW
deecanio said:Sooooo...... at long last some vids of the DC1 in action, taken today - sorry for the dark section at the end, i was losing light fast, also it's a bit repetative but my camera girl was out today so i was on my own - hope you all enjoy!!!! :lol: 8)
D
[youtube]mLlh5SQiWhc[/youtube]
Looks like fun!!!
Time to get a camera strapped to your head and start blasting around :lol:
Glad to see the bike up and running after all the planning and work!
:wink:
Hi D,
92t is the biggest Extron sprocket.
92 / 11 = 8.36
If that's the only reduction, you'll be doing 60 kph (37 mph) with a motor speed of only 4000 rpm....
You'll be using the 3220 at "half power", so it will be equivalent to a 3210.
PS I've assumed 26" wheel size above... Is that right?
deecanio said:
Hi D,
92t is the biggest Extron sprocket.
92 / 11 = 8.36
If that's the only reduction, you'll be doing 60 kph (37 mph) with a motor speed of only 4000 rpm....
You'll be using the 3220 at "half power", so it will be equivalent to a 3210.
PS I've assumed 26" wheel size above... Is that right?
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