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D's RC Drive Kona DC1
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
Probably won't take the pounding of off-road use.
etard said:
Probably won't take the pounding of off-road use.
GGoodrum
1 MW
Found it: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7992&start=195#p129968. Page 14. He did end up with 17T/60T.
Where the hell is D, anyway?
He's going to have quite a bit of reading to do. 
If he doesn't come back soon, we'll have his bike completely rebuilt. 
Where the hell is D, anyway?
He's going to have quite a bit of reading to do. If he doesn't come back soon, we'll have his bike completely rebuilt. 
hi all,
LOL, im here.
i've been up to my ears lately and only been able to browse the forum now and then,in the last couple of months i've had a new job,new house,new car,and a good clear out/ebay of my collected bike parts (surprising how much you can get for stuff i nearly threw away).
I do recall we discussed delta/wye switching a while back Gary but it was a way off like the custom eno's from white glad to hear it is coming on and seems like a very attractive option for my setup
My bike has been runnnig trouble free as is and i have been riding it whenever i get a chance which is far less so now i work shifts, the gearing is sweet and bar the cogging the system runs really really well.
Problem is im through my batteries in no time at all as i need to have power assist practically all the time or i will end up with legs like hulk.
My end goal was to mount just a motor with direct drive to the extron on the rear mounted on a custom eno, by the sounds of it this would need the d/y circuit to give me torque and top end and also relies on White actually making us the freewheels we need,the geared hub isn't an option unfortunately as it wouldn't survive the abuse i plan, i checked the sites for them and they do state that the hub isn't suitable for dh/freeride use which is a shame.
however i thought IF we get the enos i could always revert to three chainrings up front which would give me manual speed back which worked beautifuly last time i used it - having the 3 rings upfront and a 15t on the rear with the puma hub was the best setup i've had thus far but alas the hub couldn't take the pounding.
every way we try to look at this there seems to be a problem somewhere along the line which is why i left it for a few months and put the bike to one side whilst i sorted out other stuff (house,car,job) however winter is approaching and it's time to pack the stinker off to jozzers for the 09/10 revamp
Do you guys think a total refit is required for the drive system? if i can go direct drive that would be perfect but even if we can figure out what would work theres the mounting of the motor issue that will come up again, i thought i might just mount it at the bottom of the seat post again and before anyone bites my head off i think it would fit for a couple of reasons, firstly no reduction at the motor would mean it could go tight against the post and secondly even though bobs pictures say no they are taken at maximum compression WITHOUT the shock spring in place - that position is not even attainable with the shock in, also i've never bottomed out the stinky so i think it would be fine.
One other thing i'd like to ask about - given that my system runs fine as is (maybe would like more top end, my motor struggles after 3rd) i keep coming back to wondering why i can mount two eno's at the crank with a custom arm?
uh oh, can is open now
cheers guys,
D
LOL, im here.
i've been up to my ears lately and only been able to browse the forum now and then,in the last couple of months i've had a new job,new house,new car,and a good clear out/ebay of my collected bike parts (surprising how much you can get for stuff i nearly threw away
).I do recall we discussed delta/wye switching a while back Gary but it was a way off like the custom eno's from white
glad to hear it is coming on and seems like a very attractive option for my setup My bike has been runnnig trouble free as is and i have been riding it whenever i get a chance which is far less so now i work shifts, the gearing is sweet and bar the cogging the system runs really really well.
Problem is im through my batteries in no time at all as i need to have power assist practically all the time or i will end up with legs like hulk.
My end goal was to mount just a motor with direct drive to the extron on the rear mounted on a custom eno, by the sounds of it this would need the d/y circuit to give me torque and top end and also relies on White actually making us the freewheels we need,the geared hub isn't an option unfortunately as it wouldn't survive the abuse i plan, i checked the sites for them and they do state that the hub isn't suitable for dh/freeride use which is a shame.
however i thought IF we get the enos i could always revert to three chainrings up front which would give me manual speed back which worked beautifuly last time i used it - having the 3 rings upfront and a 15t on the rear with the puma hub was the best setup i've had thus far but alas the hub couldn't take the pounding.
every way we try to look at this there seems to be a problem somewhere along the line which is why i left it for a few months and put the bike to one side whilst i sorted out other stuff (house,car,job) however winter is approaching and it's time to pack the stinker off to jozzers for the 09/10 revamp
Do you guys think a total refit is required for the drive system? if i can go direct drive that would be perfect but even if we can figure out what would work theres the mounting of the motor issue that will come up again, i thought i might just mount it at the bottom of the seat post again and before anyone bites my head off i think it would fit for a couple of reasons, firstly no reduction at the motor would mean it could go tight against the post and secondly even though bobs pictures say no they are taken at maximum compression WITHOUT the shock spring in place - that position is not even attainable with the shock in, also i've never bottomed out the stinky so i think it would be fine.
One other thing i'd like to ask about - given that my system runs fine as is (maybe would like more top end, my motor struggles after 3rd) i keep coming back to wondering why i can mount two eno's at the crank with a custom arm?
uh oh, can is open now
cheers guys,
D
deecanio said:One other thing i'd like to ask about - given that my system runs fine as is (maybe would like more top end, my motor struggles after 3rd) i keep coming back to wondering why i can mount two eno's at the crank with a custom arm?
uh oh, can is open now
I worked out a design to do this. It's definitely not a case of just slapping two freewheels on a common axle .........
There's also the unit that Statons sell.
GGoodrum
1 MW
Hey D, glad you are still riding the beast.
What you need to do is Still use Matt's drive, with the 60T/17T reduction, but move the 80T Extron sprocket to the back. Even with your existing 3210, all you'd have to do is change the 11T #219 sprocket to a 13T. This won't help the "burning-through-the-pack" issue, but a switch to a 7-turn 3220 should take care of that because you will be able to get the same torque at roughly half the current. D-Y switching will get the top speed back. This is all assuming, of course, that we can make the double freewheel idea work, and that you went back to the front deraileur to get your three pedal gears back.
-- Gary
What you need to do is Still use Matt's drive, with the 60T/17T reduction, but move the 80T Extron sprocket to the back. Even with your existing 3210, all you'd have to do is change the 11T #219 sprocket to a 13T. This won't help the "burning-through-the-pack" issue, but a switch to a 7-turn 3220 should take care of that because you will be able to get the same torque at roughly half the current. D-Y switching will get the top speed back. This is all assuming, of course, that we can make the double freewheel idea work, and that you went back to the front deraileur to get your three pedal gears back.
-- Gary
grwsaltspring
10 W
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 74
Hi D;
I'm curious about the proposed seat post mounting of the motor on your bike.
Doesn't mounting the motor to the seat post create an issue with the chain from the motor to the rear sprocket or do you figure that it is possible to deal with slack with an idler?
Am I missing something?
Greg
I'm curious about the proposed seat post mounting of the motor on your bike.
Doesn't mounting the motor to the seat post create an issue with the chain from the motor to the rear sprocket or do you figure that it is possible to deal with slack with an idler?
Am I missing something?
Greg
recumpence
1 GW
I think you are burning through the pack because the 3210 is running past its most efficient point. So, as Gary mentioned, going to a 3220 will help tremendously. I would guess you will get more distance out of your pack as well. How much distance is the big question.
I am glad you are riding it alot. I was wondering about that.
So, we just need to fill your battery box with Lipo, slap a 3220 on it and you are golden! Maybe even twin 3210s. After all, you already have one. It would be easy to move up to two of them if you have room on your frame. That would give you twice the power and twice the controller FETs to take the load. I already make the conversion kit for this. :wink: Of course, I do not think the 5mm pitch belt on your drive would handle two 3210s.
Anyway, I just love watching your mind move from one idea to another on your builds. So, I have to muddy the watters a bit.
Matt
I am glad you are riding it alot. I was wondering about that.
So, we just need to fill your battery box with Lipo, slap a 3220 on it and you are golden! Maybe even twin 3210s. After all, you already have one. It would be easy to move up to two of them if you have room on your frame. That would give you twice the power and twice the controller FETs to take the load. I already make the conversion kit for this. :wink: Of course, I do not think the 5mm pitch belt on your drive would handle two 3210s.
Anyway, I just love watching your mind move from one idea to another on your builds. So, I have to muddy the watters a bit.
Matt
mwkeefer
1 MW
Hi all,
I noticed some talk about Delta/Wye switching to get good torque (Delta) and good top end (Wye). I have thrown together a crude FET based "relay" for this purpose of switching 3 of 6 phase lines back to the controller... I have an adjustable zero crossing point and have the gates driven as hard as possible to enable faster state changes.
The unit could be configured for default operation in Delta or Wye (my default is currently delta) so that engaging the 5v logic power to the board will switch from Delta to Wye, remove the 5v and back to Delta.
I have some questions though before commiting to releasing what I have....
How much current should the phases be allowed to pass? What would be peak currents seen at the phases?
How high could the voltage go?
I ask becuase currently I use 6 P75NF75Z's (thanks to methods for the IRFB4110s or I wouldn't have these to spare) to build the FET portion of the circuit so the theoretical limits would be 75A/75V but in practice I think more on order of 100A can be pulled... is this enough or should I parallel the FETS to double the current handling or just say fit and upgrade to IRFB4110s in parallel to handle anything it could get from any controller - rc or otherwise (infineon, kelly)?
I don't have specs on these yet for consumption or response/switching time, I can estimate but... I want to ensure the design will work for anyone with little or no mod.
I am also planning a few other circuits which I may combine into a single unit... these include BLDC controler (Block, Sine and Vector Commutation - sensor or sensorless) logic board, BLDC motor driver board, BMS and Slave BMS controller, Soft power on FET based mains switch. The idea was to create all the parts needed, then make them talk to each other. I had planned to make just a SUPER CONTROLLER but now may indeed brick this into a modular design.
In either case, what's everyone's take on the current requirements at the phases?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
I noticed some talk about Delta/Wye switching to get good torque (Delta) and good top end (Wye). I have thrown together a crude FET based "relay" for this purpose of switching 3 of 6 phase lines back to the controller... I have an adjustable zero crossing point and have the gates driven as hard as possible to enable faster state changes.
The unit could be configured for default operation in Delta or Wye (my default is currently delta) so that engaging the 5v logic power to the board will switch from Delta to Wye, remove the 5v and back to Delta.
I have some questions though before commiting to releasing what I have....
How much current should the phases be allowed to pass? What would be peak currents seen at the phases?
How high could the voltage go?
I ask becuase currently I use 6 P75NF75Z's (thanks to methods for the IRFB4110s or I wouldn't have these to spare) to build the FET portion of the circuit so the theoretical limits would be 75A/75V but in practice I think more on order of 100A can be pulled... is this enough or should I parallel the FETS to double the current handling or just say fit and upgrade to IRFB4110s in parallel to handle anything it could get from any controller - rc or otherwise (infineon, kelly)?
I don't have specs on these yet for consumption or response/switching time, I can estimate but... I want to ensure the design will work for anyone with little or no mod.
I am also planning a few other circuits which I may combine into a single unit... these include BLDC controler (Block, Sine and Vector Commutation - sensor or sensorless) logic board, BLDC motor driver board, BMS and Slave BMS controller, Soft power on FET based mains switch. The idea was to create all the parts needed, then make them talk to each other. I had planned to make just a SUPER CONTROLLER but now may indeed brick this into a modular design.
In either case, what's everyone's take on the current requirements at the phases?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
recumpence
1 GW
Mike,
If you make a super BLDC controller, put me down for 10.
Matt
If you make a super BLDC controller, put me down for 10.
Matt
mwkeefer
1 MW
Matt
You were on the list already (you inspired the new TFT display module I'm working out now) for an eval/demo.
-Mike
You were on the list already (you inspired the new TFT display module I'm working out now) for an eval/demo.
-Mike
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
Oh Deec...4 pages to early mate go away and come back later LoL...
Miles said:Let's see if we can get this thread up to 40 pages before D returns...
So...Deec...uhm...when Uhm...When we going to get some SICK footage of you hitting some major speed going UPhiLL on themz trails mate, when we getting that mate, some BIG sick jumps that would make hub motors cringe ...time to UNLEEEEEASh and get some GanGSTa attitude and altitude happening Deec!!! ..UNLEEEEASH the GangSTa within DeeeC UNLEEEEASH & RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLEZ IT !!!11oneoneone...hehehe
KiM
p.s and wear a helmet you crzy MoFo
hey Kim
LOLz i will get some more footage before the seasons out i promise, weather is a bit shit in blighty at the mo though and im knackered trying to get used to this new shift pattern, i have a few days off at the end of the week so if its not too boggy i'll get out then.
Miles, can you elaborate a little please?
i'll post more response once i get through tonights work, thanks for all the comments guys, i appreciate your help
Cheers,
D
LOLz i will get some more footage before the seasons out i promise, weather is a bit shit in blighty at the mo though and im knackered trying to get used to this new shift pattern, i have a few days off at the end of the week so if its not too boggy i'll get out then.
Miles, can you elaborate a little please?
Miles said:deecanio said:One other thing i'd like to ask about - given that my system runs fine as is (maybe would like more top end, my motor struggles after 3rd) i keep coming back to wondering why i can mount two eno's at the crank with a custom arm?
uh oh, can is open now
I worked out a design to do this. It's definitely not a case of just slapping two freewheels on a common axle .........
There's also the unit that Statons sell.
i'll post more response once i get through tonights work, thanks for all the comments guys, i appreciate your help
Cheers,
D
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:hey Kim
LOLz i will get some more footage before the seasons out i promise, weather is a bit shit in blighty at the mo though and im knackered trying to get used to this new shift pattern, i have a few days off at the end of the week so if its not too boggy i'll get out then.
Cheers,
D
DO A BACKFLIP!!!......... OF A TREE
hehehe... I got my Recumpence drive mounted today Deec, you will be SHOCKED to know it took less than 4 hours to complete the task rather than a month of procrastination Look forward to the vids bud GO HARD ride it like you stoles it !!!!
KiM
AussieJester
1 TW
Miles said:The easiest way to understand this is to play with two freewheels
oooh thats rude isn't it...oh wait...my mistake...carry on
... KiM
Miles said:deecanio said:
The motor freewheel needs to be isolated from the crank axle. The easiest way to understand this is to play with two freewheels
eh? :?
if the motor freewheel is isolated from the crank how would the motor turn the crank?
too dumb for this hobby don't ya know!!
D
liveforphysics
100 TW
Both fully isolated from all torque being transfered to them from forward motion of any systems on the bike, pedals, motor, wheel. Not isolated from delivering torque to the wheel.
Read up on the freewheel spline fitment thread.
Read up on the freewheel spline fitment thread.
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
Weeeell you do play SOCCER Deec so we can't expect too
much from you buddy
KiM
p.s DO A BACK FLIP!!!11oneoneone
deecanio said:if the motor freewheel is isolated from the crank how would the motor turn the crank?
too dumb for this hobby don't ya know!!
D
You don't want the motor freewheel turning the crank or the crank axle! You want it turning the chainring.
The pedal freewheel is between the axle/cranks and the chainring...............
right at the base of the seatpost where i originally planned, i wont have to worry about the foot as i wont need reduction and i will limit the suspension travel as not to hit, everyone will yell at me that it doesnt fit but i know it will.
failing that i'll try to mount under the bb or adapt the box to incorporate the motor even if it means redesigning the box and outing the esc and throttle board to an external box to make it happen
D
failing that i'll try to mount under the bb or adapt the box to incorporate the motor even if it means redesigning the box and outing the esc and throttle board to an external box to make it happen
D
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