All these rear suspension set-ups are a compromise. They are more or less neutral to direct pedal input in one gear (sprocket combination) only. Either side of that you get compression or extension. Similarly, you need to set up the chainline between the gearbox output sprocket and the rear motor sprocket, so that the effect of the chain pull acting on the suspension is minimised..
D's RC Drive Kona DC1
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
AussieJester
1 TW
Miles said:
Placing the drive sprocket in line with the suspension pivot point is the only way i can see chain growth being minimised Miles?...(with the exception of having the motor on the rear swing arm which isn't an option in this case) Without chopping into his beloved battery housing there's no way to do this ...well none i can see...hahaa rephrase that...none Deec is interested in pursuing
: cough:: 20in :: cough :: rim/tire :: cough:: combo... he just aint badass enough for 20's )KiM
EDIT:
O/T
p.s Miles..are you still riding the bike in your avtar? Have you a new creation in the works? I seen you carving up an eno what have you got going on? comez on mate fess up...me wants too see your next masterpiece or at least a glimpse of it hehe
AussieJester said:
Oh cool, another chance to post OT on D's thread
I'm just starting a second conversion using the same bike model. It will use a 3210 7t with an 18t to 65t synchro belt first stage in addition to the same 16t to 100t stage as on my first build. The splined freewheel will be used instead of the freewheeling cranks. I'll mount the battery on the bike, this time. I'll post some pics of the computer model when I've finished it....
AussieJester
1 TW
Good too hear Miles Your 'daily rider' is still
tha avtar bike then...?
More O/T Deec but i think (if you havent already seen it, was emailed to me this morning
) you will appreciate the skills and posibly give up SOCCER altogether after viewing it
[youtube]SboxET1W-To[/youtube]
Reminds me alot of myself when i played FOOTBALL Aussie Rules Football that is or AFL for short
unlike the slipper wearing parachute short wearing dry humping players kicking the round ball around
we use an oval ball actually takes skill to kick
tha avtar bike then...?
More O/T Deec but i think (if you havent already seen it, was emailed to me this morning
) you will appreciate the skills and posibly give up SOCCER altogether after viewing it
[youtube]SboxET1W-To[/youtube]
Reminds me alot of myself when i played FOOTBALL Aussie Rules Football that is or AFL for short
unlike the slipper wearing parachute short wearing dry humping players kicking the round ball around
we use an oval ball actually takes skill to kick
enoob
1 kW
) i was heavily into DH mountain biking when suspension hit the scene. im talkin rox shox whith 1.5" were IT. and you had to spend some $$$$ to get em .
then full suspension was the rage and the big debate was how much power was lost to suspension compression over forward motion So all the companys flouted thier geometry as the best . in the end it came down to what you want out of the bike.
check the off road 4x4 custom crawler guys . i cant remember the term for it but its possible to set it up to tune it so the application of power will give you sag or lift or as close to neutral as possible.
OH and dont you boys call it FOOTY
then full suspension was the rage and the big debate was how much power was lost to suspension compression over forward motion So all the companys flouted thier geometry as the best . in the end it came down to what you want out of the bike.
check the off road 4x4 custom crawler guys . i cant remember the term for it but its possible to set it up to tune it so the application of power will give you sag or lift or as close to neutral as possible.
OH and dont you boys call it FOOTY
AussieJester
1 TW
enoob said:
Us Aussie do yes, the PoMs think Soccer is "football" also though the poor misguided bastards
:
repares to "bait" hook again for another crack at catching a Deec:: KiM
stop,stop, hook, line and sinker!!!
Ok let me clear this up,in the uk (and the rest of the world apart from aus and us) we call it football, and only football.
we call it football because it's played with the feet, and a ball, no, not egg, ball, round, spherical :wink:
btw that dude has mad skills with the ball, thats becham ability to be that accurate
D
Ok let me clear this up,in the uk (and the rest of the world apart from aus and us) we call it football, and only football.
we call it football because it's played with the feet, and a ball, no, not egg, ball, round, spherical :wink:
btw that dude has mad skills with the ball, thats becham ability to be that accurate
D
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi D,
The "paintshaker" effect will be less the closer to the swingarm pivot the motor is mounted. Maybe if the driveshaft and motor are mounted on the swingarm as close to the pivot as possible or even on tabs mounted at the pivot point the pounding won't be a problem?
deecanio said:the current plan is change of gearing to suit a 3220 and location as mentioned, just need to overcome the chain growth issue
D
deecanio said:
The "paintshaker" effect will be less the closer to the swingarm pivot the motor is mounted. Maybe if the driveshaft and motor are mounted on the swingarm as close to the pivot as possible or even on tabs mounted at the pivot point the pounding won't be a problem?
Hi Mitch,
yes i am considering it, i thought i might mount the driveshaft on top of the swingarm and the motor below if theres room.
i'm waiting for Lukes Spline flu to pass then when i get my grubby hands on those magic enos i'll have a little shift around of the parts and weigh things up.
D
yes i am considering it, i thought i might mount the driveshaft on top of the swingarm and the motor below if theres room.
i'm waiting for Lukes Spline flu to pass then when i get my grubby hands on those magic enos i'll have a little shift around of the parts and weigh things up.
D
blitzwagen
100 mW
Thanks for your thoughts D. I'm going around in circles figuring things out. Here's one idea that currently appeals to me which allows all the pedalling gears without needing crazy reductions while keeping the correct chain line.
I wonder if it's possible to run a 2 gears on freewheel on the LHS of the BB for a LHS parallel drive setup. Yes, it might make disc brake mounting tricky but the advantages are enormous. The chain to the rear wheel is centered about the BB - so no chain growth issues. A reduction of 4:1 at the motor can run a fixed cog driving a chainring which is rigidly attached to a small cog. Both of which are bolted to an ENO on a threaded crank arm. The small cog at the BB can then drive another high tooth count chainring and the rear - getting the correct ratios will be a picnic. I love that it will keep all the standard pedalling gears untouched and you can run a heavy duty chain on the LHS.
Regarding the disc brake, the top hat adapter sold by Andy on ebay suggests that it may be possible to run a sprocket and keep the disc with a bit of fiddling getting the spacing correct. At worst, one can resort to a v brake for the rear.
The real advantage to all of this is maintaining the correct pivot point for the chain.
I wonder if it's possible to run a 2 gears on freewheel on the LHS of the BB for a LHS parallel drive setup. Yes, it might make disc brake mounting tricky but the advantages are enormous. The chain to the rear wheel is centered about the BB - so no chain growth issues. A reduction of 4:1 at the motor can run a fixed cog driving a chainring which is rigidly attached to a small cog. Both of which are bolted to an ENO on a threaded crank arm. The small cog at the BB can then drive another high tooth count chainring and the rear - getting the correct ratios will be a picnic. I love that it will keep all the standard pedalling gears untouched and you can run a heavy duty chain on the LHS.
Regarding the disc brake, the top hat adapter sold by Andy on ebay suggests that it may be possible to run a sprocket and keep the disc with a bit of fiddling getting the spacing correct. At worst, one can resort to a v brake for the rear.
The real advantage to all of this is maintaining the correct pivot point for the chain.
recumpence
1 GW
My left side 130mm BCD to ISO sprocket adaptor has a 1/2 inch offset too. You can run a large disc and small sprocket to provide clearance.
I am working on a build, right now, that uses this very setup.
Matt
I am working on a build, right now, that uses this very setup.
Matt
blitzwagen
100 mW
Hi Matt,
This is excellent- I haven't seen too many mount the disc and sprocket for some reason, too much of a fiddle I'm guessing. I've thought about my suggestion again and I don't think that an ENO at the crank as I said is ideal. I think that an ENO at the rear may be far more efficient. Do you perhaps have an adapter that will bolt to rear disc hub and allow the installation of the HD freewheel to which a large chainring can then bolt to?
Instead of the FW on the BB, a standard bearing may be sufficient if the FW at the rear is possible.
This is excellent- I haven't seen too many mount the disc and sprocket for some reason, too much of a fiddle I'm guessing. I've thought about my suggestion again and I don't think that an ENO at the crank as I said is ideal. I think that an ENO at the rear may be far more efficient. Do you perhaps have an adapter that will bolt to rear disc hub and allow the installation of the HD freewheel to which a large chainring can then bolt to?
Instead of the FW on the BB, a standard bearing may be sufficient if the FW at the rear is possible.
Hi blitzwagen,
I've always been keen on the idea of using the crank axle as an idler shaft.
Freewheel on the rear hub would be better. You could use a bi-drive hub and a left-hand freewheel. Mounting a freewheel on the disc mount would put it too far out, I think.
I've always been keen on the idea of using the crank axle as an idler shaft.
Freewheel on the rear hub would be better. You could use a bi-drive hub and a left-hand freewheel. Mounting a freewheel on the disc mount would put it too far out, I think.
blitzwagen
100 mW
Hi Miles,
Using the crank as the idler solves D's chain line issues in an instant - I'm hoping that he's keen on pursuing this idea, and work out the bugs in the process.
I've had a quick look at hubs and bi-drive hubs are plentiful. It doesn't look like the LH thread on the White ENO is possible though - do you perhaps know of a source or an equally strong LH FW?
Using the crank as the idler solves D's chain line issues in an instant - I'm hoping that he's keen on pursuing this idea, and work out the bugs in the process.
I've had a quick look at hubs and bi-drive hubs are plentiful. It doesn't look like the LH thread on the White ENO is possible though - do you perhaps know of a source or an equally strong LH FW?
It solves the reduction problem but it doesn't necessarily mean no interference with the suspension. The point of driving the cranks, though, is to use the pedal gearing for the motor......
The ACS is the only LH freewheel I know of, for standard thread.
You can get a RH/LH threaded hub from EV deals. http://www.evdeals.com/
Flip-flop hubs are no use, of course...
The ACS is the only LH freewheel I know of, for standard thread.
You can get a RH/LH threaded hub from EV deals. http://www.evdeals.com/
Flip-flop hubs are no use, of course...
blitzwagen
100 mW
Ah, I'd forgotten about the requirement to change gears. I suppose the inability to change gears outweighs the 1 less reduction stage required. It does however leave the pedalling gears untouched which might make for a better experience and reduce the duty cycle of the motor. It will also make running a heavier duty chain than the 8spd easier for higher power setups.
Perhaps double freewheeling cranks really is the final answer.
Perhaps double freewheeling cranks really is the final answer.
ok so things moving quicker now thanks to ES usual suspects
this is the plan for the 2010 build.
6 wire delta/wye 6turn black 3220 (if im not too late on the group buy)
1 x 16t eno and 1 x 22t eno splined by Luke.
1 x 165t extron custom (yet to be made)
1 x dd sram 3spd hub - yes finally following Garys lead here to save three rings upfront.
so, direct drive with a 3220 6t 11t/165t #219 chain with delta/wye and total pedal and motor independance (at last)
Kim,
i need to know exactly what you need from me mate? drive complete with motor? just drive?
i have 2 x 22t enos at present, rather than buy a sickbikes one i may as well use one of them for broaching - all saves me money that i dont really have at the minute.
also we need to come to a fair price - dont worry mate i'll do ya a good deal
at last i might finally be able to start building, woohoo!!!
btw whats the difference in the longer shaft on the motors? anyone tell me or know which i will need? im thinking the longer one?
D
this is the plan for the 2010 build.
6 wire delta/wye 6turn black 3220 (if im not too late on the group buy)
1 x 16t eno and 1 x 22t eno splined by Luke.
1 x 165t extron custom (yet to be made)
1 x dd sram 3spd hub - yes finally following Garys lead here to save three rings upfront.
so, direct drive with a 3220 6t 11t/165t #219 chain with delta/wye and total pedal and motor independance (at last)
Kim,
i need to know exactly what you need from me mate? drive complete with motor? just drive?
i have 2 x 22t enos at present, rather than buy a sickbikes one i may as well use one of them for broaching - all saves me money that i dont really have at the minute.
also we need to come to a fair price - dont worry mate i'll do ya a good deal
at last i might finally be able to start building, woohoo!!!
btw whats the difference in the longer shaft on the motors? anyone tell me or know which i will need? im thinking the longer one?
D
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
Just the drive unit Deec nothing else required i like outrunners myself.
Cheers buddy...no hurry though its just for future use, will sit on my desk for 6 months as
an ornament
KiM
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
113 x .85 x 48 -> 4,610 / 15 = 307 rpm
Using the Sheldon Brown Calculator for an SRAM 3 speed, 26" nominal tire, MPH at 100rpm I got:
1st - 5.7mph, 2nd - 7.7mph, 3rd 10.5
Rounding off to 300 rpm:
1st - 17.1 mph, 2nd - 23.1 mph, 3rd 31.5
If you want to be able to shift at the cranks and you don't want derailleurs an expensive option would be a Schlumpf crank.
Before I place my 3220 order I thought I'd calculate the speeds using your setup to make sure I'm doing the calculations correctly (make sure my numbers are close to Mile's numbers). If I made a mistake hopefully Miles will chime in. If I'm correct you might be interested in the figures. I got the following (6 turn 3220 kv is 113):deecanio said:ok so things moving quicker now thanks to ES usual suspects
this is the plan for the 2010 build.
6 wire delta/wye 6turn black 3220 (if im not too late on the group buy)
1 x 16t eno and 1 x 22t eno splined by Luke.
1 x 165t extron custom (yet to be made)
1 x dd sram 3spd hub - yes finally following Garys lead here to save three rings upfront.
so, direct drive with a 3220 6t 11t/165t #219 chain with delta/wye and total pedal and motor independence (at last)
113 x .85 x 48 -> 4,610 / 15 = 307 rpm
Using the Sheldon Brown Calculator for an SRAM 3 speed, 26" nominal tire, MPH at 100rpm I got:
1st - 5.7mph, 2nd - 7.7mph, 3rd 10.5
Rounding off to 300 rpm:
1st - 17.1 mph, 2nd - 23.1 mph, 3rd 31.5
If you want to be able to shift at the cranks and you don't want derailleurs an expensive option would be a Schlumpf crank.
The noise of an 11t drive sprocket at 4,600 rpm or the 165t sprocket in the rear?Miles said:Sure. What happened to stealth?
AussieJester
1 TW
MitchJi said:The noise of an 11t drive sprocket at 4,600 rpm or the 165t sprocket in the rear?Miles said:Sure. What happened to stealth?
Got Belts..chains are so 1980s
KiM
My recollection was of D worrying about a 90t sprocket being conspicuous - now he wants a 165t oneMitchJi said:The noise of an 11t drive sprocket at 4,600 rpm or the 165t sprocket in the rear?Miles said:Sure. What happened to stealth?
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