D's RC Drive Kona DC1
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
AussieJester
1 TW
I can't help but feel you might be better off going back to a hub motor Deec, with this
frame anywayz OR Have you thought about converting this bike back to pedal only and going with
a totally different frame with an rc buld? just seems a very problematic frame to add
rc setup too in a way that your going to be happy with?
KiM
frame anywayz OR Have you thought about converting this bike back to pedal only and going with
a totally different frame with an rc buld? just seems a very problematic frame to add
rc setup too in a way that your going to be happy with?
KiM
Hi Kim,
yes i have on all counts, hubs are no good for offroad, great for road mind, just look at GC's vids, plenty of poke.
I have though about reverting the kona to pedal only but im fairly close now so im going to push on and if i fail this time i will revert it.
the point of moving to rc was to move the weight from the wheel and have an unsuspended drive so i can rough it, i'll give it one more shot and see where we are.
Im not ready to throw in the towel yet, but i do have it to hand
D
yes i have on all counts, hubs are no good for offroad, great for road mind, just look at GC's vids, plenty of poke.
I have though about reverting the kona to pedal only but im fairly close now so im going to push on and if i fail this time i will revert it.
the point of moving to rc was to move the weight from the wheel and have an unsuspended drive so i can rough it, i'll give it one more shot and see where we are.
Im not ready to throw in the towel yet, but i do have it to hand
D
etard
100 kW
I know this is the wrong section to ask but I have to:
.
Why exactly will hubs not work offroad?? Honestly, your never going to be happy with a drive strapped on to a frame never intended for that use. I mean its like you went to the store and bought a kit car, and then went out and bought a turbine motor to put in it. It would be better to design around the motor. I love my Specialized frame, but looking at how it is designed, I would never put any electric drive on it. It just won't work. This thread was started over a year ago, think of all the riding you've missed out on....
Go out and buy a hub motor before you miss out this year.
.
Why exactly will hubs not work offroad?? Honestly, your never going to be happy with a drive strapped on to a frame never intended for that use. I mean its like you went to the store and bought a kit car, and then went out and bought a turbine motor to put in it. It would be better to design around the motor. I love my Specialized frame, but looking at how it is designed, I would never put any electric drive on it. It just won't work. This thread was started over a year ago, think of all the riding you've missed out on....
Go out and buy a hub motor before you miss out this year.
recumpence
1 GW
Many good points have been made here. This is my take on the matter;
#1 D jumped in at the very beginning of this stuff, not only the beginning of my drive unit availability, but also of RC use on bikes by the general public as a whole. This makes for some probable issues right up front.
#2 His rear suspension allows lots of room for batteries, but it is tough for a non-hub drive, no matter what type.
#3 Etard makes a good point. These motors were not specifically designed for bike use, nor was the Kona designed for electric use. That makes for a more challenging project. Though most builds here fall in that catagory.
The primary issue with hub motors and off road use is unsprung weight. In order to get power in a hub, you need weight. This makes the suspension act funny. You get wheel hop and other undesireable characteristics. Plus, hubs move the weight to the outer extremity of the vehicle, when in reality, you want a centralized CG.
I would say if D was riding on fire roads and trails without any real jumps, a hub motor would be just fine. If you want to jump, however, you need something else or your handling will suffer.
If I were to build a FS mountainbike using RC drive, I would pick the bike specifically for the task. There are frames out there that are better than others for this type of thing. I think the Kona is a great frame and may even be fine for this project. But, D put so much time into the current build that it is getting frustrating trying to make it just right. I am blessed with my own machineshop. I do not have to rely on others nearly as much to make my builds successful. D is not that lucky. He must rely on a few trusted people to make his builds happen. This is not really bad. Lets face it, we all rely on others through our lives. But, it does complicate things when you are shooting for something that will truely be special.
What D is trying to accomplish is possible. It is just not common.
Matt
#1 D jumped in at the very beginning of this stuff, not only the beginning of my drive unit availability, but also of RC use on bikes by the general public as a whole. This makes for some probable issues right up front.
#2 His rear suspension allows lots of room for batteries, but it is tough for a non-hub drive, no matter what type.
#3 Etard makes a good point. These motors were not specifically designed for bike use, nor was the Kona designed for electric use. That makes for a more challenging project. Though most builds here fall in that catagory.
The primary issue with hub motors and off road use is unsprung weight. In order to get power in a hub, you need weight. This makes the suspension act funny. You get wheel hop and other undesireable characteristics. Plus, hubs move the weight to the outer extremity of the vehicle, when in reality, you want a centralized CG.
I would say if D was riding on fire roads and trails without any real jumps, a hub motor would be just fine. If you want to jump, however, you need something else or your handling will suffer.
If I were to build a FS mountainbike using RC drive, I would pick the bike specifically for the task. There are frames out there that are better than others for this type of thing. I think the Kona is a great frame and may even be fine for this project. But, D put so much time into the current build that it is getting frustrating trying to make it just right. I am blessed with my own machineshop. I do not have to rely on others nearly as much to make my builds successful. D is not that lucky. He must rely on a few trusted people to make his builds happen. This is not really bad. Lets face it, we all rely on others through our lives. But, it does complicate things when you are shooting for something that will truely be special.
What D is trying to accomplish is possible. It is just not common.
Matt
Hi All,
everything in the last three posts is bang on the money.
I realise that my problems are totally because i jumped in very early with a conversion from a hub bike and everything is that much more difficult because my bike was not bought with an rc setup in mind.However i'm not a million miles from making it happen and im just trying to get best steer on what is essentially my last effort.
The point Matt makes is most valid, i dont even have a bench or a vice at home let alone the quality equipment and skill others are blessed with here.
i'll be honest, i moan and bitch way more than i should about it considering without you guys steering and helping me out i have nothing to work on and i am VERY grateful to all those who've suggested/made/repaired the stink to get to me to this point at all.
i was ready to call it a day after i broke my 3rd hub, but then Matt ruined my retirement by showing up with his wonderous recumbent, damn you mr S :lol:
This time around im having one last effort, mostly with the kit i already have, options are still there to explore with final drive setup but essentially it will be Matts drive remounted which is why i've been asking for all ideas now before i build one last time.
I have considered many times buying a new bike specifically for an rc setup, lipo etc the whole shooting match but this takes a lot of time money and patience due to the problems mentioned and i just dont have the resolve to do it all again from scratch, the time frame being the biggest killer of enthusiasm, i have scraped together some funds for this purpose but now im thinking that i'd be better off putting it elsewhere as the return of fun previously has been scant.
One last try guys, what the hell should i do with it???
D
everything in the last three posts is bang on the money.
I realise that my problems are totally because i jumped in very early with a conversion from a hub bike and everything is that much more difficult because my bike was not bought with an rc setup in mind.However i'm not a million miles from making it happen and im just trying to get best steer on what is essentially my last effort.
The point Matt makes is most valid, i dont even have a bench or a vice at home let alone the quality equipment and skill others are blessed with here.
i'll be honest, i moan and bitch way more than i should about it considering without you guys steering and helping me out i have nothing to work on and i am VERY grateful to all those who've suggested/made/repaired the stink to get to me to this point at all.
i was ready to call it a day after i broke my 3rd hub, but then Matt ruined my retirement by showing up with his wonderous recumbent, damn you mr S :lol:
This time around im having one last effort, mostly with the kit i already have, options are still there to explore with final drive setup but essentially it will be Matts drive remounted which is why i've been asking for all ideas now before i build one last time.
I have considered many times buying a new bike specifically for an rc setup, lipo etc the whole shooting match but this takes a lot of time money and patience due to the problems mentioned and i just dont have the resolve to do it all again from scratch, the time frame being the biggest killer of enthusiasm, i have scraped together some funds for this purpose but now im thinking that i'd be better off putting it elsewhere as the return of fun previously has been scant.
One last try guys, what the hell should i do with it???
D
Hi D,
3220 6t will give you a nominal 4600 rpm
92t:12t gets you to 600rpm.
For a 630mm dia. wheel, that's 44 mph.
So, if you had a 2:1 first stage that would give you 22 mph (16 mph in 1st, 30 mph in 3rd).
A 60t chainring to the 16t freewheel would match the motor with a cadence of 80. You could also retain the front freewheel and have a 4 sprocket cluster on the back - this would avoid the need for such a large chainring.
What's your exact wheel diameter?
3220 6t will give you a nominal 4600 rpm
92t:12t gets you to 600rpm.
For a 630mm dia. wheel, that's 44 mph.
So, if you had a 2:1 first stage that would give you 22 mph (16 mph in 1st, 30 mph in 3rd).
A 60t chainring to the 16t freewheel would match the motor with a cadence of 80. You could also retain the front freewheel and have a 4 sprocket cluster on the back - this would avoid the need for such a large chainring.
What's your exact wheel diameter?
ok thats great Miles, thank you.
here's what i plan to do - put the sram in, this will let me play with three varients of gearing on the motor and if it busts then i know how to gear when returning to my normal wheel - i'll use it 1-1 initially but it will be very nice to be able try 1st and third, this will give me a good indication of what i like.
i'll gear the reduction unit 2-1 which matt is sorting the pulleys for.
i still have the final method of drive to play with and have decided to use both methods and see which i like best.
options are:
4 ring sprocket at the back, freewheel crank required.
single eno at the back, three rings upfront, no freewheel crank rqd.
i like the second option but the first gives me greater cadence with a smaller single ring so i'll try them both and see whats occuring.
So thats the plan, Matt is collating my two sprockets, extended motor arm, motor.
i have a design for a bracket that will make the arm more stable so i can work on that.
Sram is ordered and on its way, rim is waiting to be laced.
Miles i'll check the exact diameter of my wheel in the morning when i get home - you want tyre edge to tyre edge yes?
Thanks for the help guys.
D
here's what i plan to do - put the sram in, this will let me play with three varients of gearing on the motor and if it busts then i know how to gear when returning to my normal wheel - i'll use it 1-1 initially but it will be very nice to be able try 1st and third, this will give me a good indication of what i like.
i'll gear the reduction unit 2-1 which matt is sorting the pulleys for.
i still have the final method of drive to play with and have decided to use both methods and see which i like best.
options are:
4 ring sprocket at the back, freewheel crank required.
single eno at the back, three rings upfront, no freewheel crank rqd.
i like the second option but the first gives me greater cadence with a smaller single ring so i'll try them both and see whats occuring.
So thats the plan, Matt is collating my two sprockets, extended motor arm, motor.
i have a design for a bracket that will make the arm more stable so i can work on that.
Sram is ordered and on its way, rim is waiting to be laced.
Miles i'll check the exact diameter of my wheel in the morning when i get home - you want tyre edge to tyre edge yes?
Thanks for the help guys.
D
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
only 'exact' way is to have the wheel on the bike with you sitting on bike and rolling it along measuring on the ground the distance of one complete rotation... iiiif you want it 'exact'
KiM
lol
i might have to change the tyres but if its that little difference for 10mm it sould be fine, the current monsters are 2.7" wide, makes my chainline trickier.
the sram is at the depot waiting for another 45 pound tax
so i'll pick it up and drop it and the rim off tomorrow to be laced, need to pick up some allen keys too so i can undo the drive pulley and see if MIke stills want my 3210, its starting to move along again, hurrah!!
D
i might have to change the tyres but if its that little difference for 10mm it sould be fine, the current monsters are 2.7" wide, makes my chainline trickier.
the sram is at the depot waiting for another 45 pound tax
so i'll pick it up and drop it and the rim off tomorrow to be laced, need to pick up some allen keys too so i can undo the drive pulley and see if MIke stills want my 3210, its starting to move along again, hurrah!!D
AussieJester
1 TW
Miles said:So, that gives you an extra 0.3 mph, then........
Top Fuel dragster would spend 10s of thousands for that increase, all Deec needs to do is put down the SOCCER ball
and sit on his bike and rollz it forward
KiM
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
its a $2000 dollar plus wheelchair Deec they havent skimped on the sealed bearings in the hubs
matey
KiM
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:
I would do a video of the clunking but it might make Deec cry hehee...it makes extremely loud
clunking/banging noises now mate i been taking it extremely easy lately, contacted SickBikeParts last
night to find out if they had the tracking number for my Eno freewheel actually, been 13 days now
they said
"Tracking # LJ*****US I can see it's not delivered yet.
No idea where the hold up is. Usually much larger parcels are indeed 7-8 days to Australia. We'll give it a couple more days, because somewhere in the fine print it say 14 days.
Paul"
No idea what they intend to do after 14 days... :: fingers crossed :: it will show up today :-S
When it does though if i can get a mate around to push me back ill video destroying the hub
couple of full power launches will do it, maybe just the one haha, the noise it makes if
i push it on take off is VERY LOUD Deec .
KiM
AussieJester
1 TW
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