Dual sport bike using a Hubmonster motor Video pg3

[jansevr]

that was a quick build good work!

 

[John in CR]

That's gotta be your favorite way to win $200. Let me know if you want cash or some goodies in exchange for some. I've got some hydro rear brake assemblies that include an ebrake switch along with compact semi-rigid solar panel modules.

I'm sure you can't wait to get some real power pumping, since 50% power when you're pushing a 177kg load is ho-hum.

Any plans WRT to the front/rear tire size differential? If not, I've got a couple of ideas, so send me some good broadside shots to doctor up and see what you think.

For regular riding you'll be wishing for some smooth and silent street tires.

Great work on getting up and running so quick. I can't wait to see how it does flat tracking.

John

 

[Bluefang]

Yeah its been a very very easy build compared to my last 2, one with a nuvinci hub and mid drive, and then the recent mini-monster mid drive. This hub was SOOO easy to setup, in terms of wheel size i will most likely change the front to a 19" depending on if i am streeting the bike or going flat tracking. Atm i am still waiting for the flat track group to get back to me about whether i can even run the bike, if not i ll be registering it pretty fast and putting some street tires on it with a 16" on the front

Winning the prize is just a nice bonus I'll certainly want some goodies, those throttles and now hydro-brakes do sound nice . Are the Hydro brakes sized for scooter discs that would go on this hub? Is the hose about 1.5m long?

Atm with the hub its making a slight pulsing noise and its not starting very smooth under load, could i have it running with the groups of halls and phases not matched up? The following video gives a good example of what i am talking about, it was not really noticeable on the testing of the bike but its quite abit more pronounced when riding it. Hence why its still only at 50%. Its odd at the start but once full throttle its still only using ~4A no load. The controllers are getting very hot too. If i get some free time i ll just change the hall groups around anyway. My girlfriends first comment about the bike......its so silent compared to my other e-bikes

[youtube]UBrdAweiPVo[/youtube]

 

[Bluefang]

I guess this is what i get for been abit lazy and trying to do things the quick way I have found these great simple connectors that are used for phone lines alot called 3M Scotchlok UY2 connectors, absolutly great for joining all your throttle connectors and stuff that is a reasonable size and your not planing to pull apart, they even have a water repellent built into them.......Only problem is they don't work too well with the tiny wires from the hall sensors, seeing as i had a problem with afew halls not reading properly i redid the connections i had in the box next to the wheel removing the UY2s and soldering all the joints. Even after i had tested all the halls at the controller and was getting the right values, obviously the connections were abit touch and go.... problem solved the bike is now proper smooooooottttthhhhhh Now i have to wait till tomorrow to test ride the bike as its dark again.

Note to self......tiny wires = NO simple connectors.
[youtube]clfsaiUrpi0[/youtube]

FYI the jump in the camera was the bike trying to jump off its stand when i twisted the throttle bit much

 

[jansevr]

i had a feeling that there was a hall sensor issue, glad to see you got it figured out - can't wait to see video at full power. it definitely sounds a lot better in that last video!

 

[John in CR]

Yeah, at least with the controllers I've used it's very low speed no load that displays the false positive with a notable sound. Current doesn't go sky high. So you had both a hall and phase wire change for one of the controllers, right?

Also, I thought there was some motor sound on launch in your video, and I should have said something, but figured it was just the tires. If your wife thought it was quite before, just wait, because now the sound will be only the tires....Definitely the silence champ even without sine wave controllers.

Yes, the brake assemblies and discs are for these motors, so it's the longer brake line for the rear. I'll get Jay to measure the length. I picked up a number of extra discs too in case people want to use them to make adapters for mounting a sprocket, since sprockets don't come with a 3 bolt pattern.

John

 

[mistercrash]

Did you take time to sleep and eat this week?

Geez! I looked at John's videos of him riding around with this motor and now your video just twisting the throttle with no load. That's one hellofahub.

Super nice job on everything especially those torque plates, they look like they could take the torque of three hubmonsters.

 

[Bluefang]

Hahaha, its actually very easy and quick to build a hub motored bike, if you have all the parts arriving at around the same time it makes everything alot faster. Lots of playing around with e-bikes helps lots too

Only problem..........I just managed to blow up both controllers, magic smoke puffs everywhere lol. I guess its too be expected, 10kw very short peaks is very very different to 10kw longish peaks. Damn mountan bike tendency to flip at that power level saves the controllers all the time . Pulled 300amps at 75V between both controllers........ opps

I think i ll do it properly this time and just get a pair of Zombies controllers, then i can either go higher voltage if needed or really pump the power as much as the hub can handle.

Controller one poped right at the start of the take off after i had stopped, didn't realize that's what had happened due to ridding my mini-green monster bike that cut out frequently. Then as i cruised along i started to think that the controller had died.....and the second bit the dust.
[youtube]CPyjqMk2T-0[/youtube]

 

[jansevr]

sorry to hear about your controllers. its hard to believe that you were pushing 10kw in the video when they blew...is it possible there was some other problem?

im guessing the mosfets in the controllers are 4110 which are rated at 100v and 120a i believe. even at 75 volts, or say a sag to 65x120x2 = 15600 kw. they should be able to handle 10kw peak no problem. were you doing speed runs that got them hot just before filming?

 

[Bluefang]

Nahh in that vid it was only one controller running the bike, i am only going slowly to where i turned around then i stopped. From there i was trying to do a full speed run right at the start it was doing 22kw, took the first controller out straight away and the second was powering the bike for the rest of it, kinda pissed that i did not think that was the problem until late enough that the 2nd controller poped as well.

Thats a very very very theoretical limit for the fets, does not hold true for most of the time. The fets may have been alittle warm but i was only testing the bike out about 1hr+ before and it was only pulling 16kw peaks, its just that was the first time i hammered it from near stand still rather then rolling the throttle like i am prone to do. All good i have a ton of room to fit some massive controllers, just have to decide on some that will do 15-20kw peak each as i will also need reliability on the track at a almost constant 20kw.

 

[John in CR]

I can send you a pair of 24s with 4110's as your prize, if you cover the shipping. They're not programmable, and the LVC is about 5V too low, so you'll need to do a resistor mod to get regen going, but you'll have a solid 80A battery side per controller right off the bat. The advantage over the high voltage 24fet we tried before is that these aren't programmed with too high a current, so you won't have the cutouts even if doing a shunt mod to take it to 120A each.

Was it noticeably more quiet? Did get some good runs in? If so, impressions???

For the record, no way I'd even try 100A battery side per controller with 12 fetters. Yes, HubMonster is easier to drive than other high Kv hubbies, but at 84uH avg phase to phase inductance it's not as easy to drive as 9-10rpm/volt ebike hubbies. My dual 18's got fairly warm riding at 105A ea.

Also for the record, any sealed hubbie is going to have heat problems if you do repetitive 100-200m launches. Doing that gets old quickly anyway, you'll want to get out there and embarrass cars and small motos. Then you're riding hard with few full stop launches and healthy minimum rpms for the most part so you can.

John

 

[jansevr]

John - what controllers are you currently running? do you have controllers to sell with the motors? If so i'm curious as to how much for the 18 or the 24 fet

 

[Bluefang]

quiet..........could not hear the motor at all. I could hear the tire and that was about it I had a few runs before i had to wait around for someone to video it and all i can say is its smooth power that just keeps going, it was doing 80km/h before i realized and this is in a 50km/h limited street on a illegal dirtbike so i kind toned it down after that.

Yeah was abit dumb to try with 12fets, live and learn. Now its back to normal electric conversion time frames......waiting for parts I ll send you a PM about the brake stuff and controllers. Any chance the controllers are in normal sized cases rather then the GIANT case from before, no problem either way as i have plenty of room

 

[John in CR]

At 6x12x20cm the case of these 24's are smaller than my Zombiess' 24's, which are 7x14x20cm. I think the Lyen 24's are the same as Zombiess'. Note for fitment purposes that's just the case, which doesn't include the mounting tabs and the plastic part for the bundle of wires to enter.

John

 

[Bluefang]

Ohh well. with time on my hands i might try and get some registration stuff done to see if i can get it on the road. The track is taking too long to respond about getting it racing so i ll put it on the road and stip it down to race if needed. Will have to wait for my contactor to arrive before i can actually register it but all the paper work and some touch up paint work can be done. And get a motorbike licence.

Great to hear about the controllers, means they will fit extreamly easy where i am planing to put them.

 

[mistercrash]

Bluefang,
Would you mind educating me on how you wired your two controllers to a 6 phase motor? From what I understand, the motor has 6 phase wires and two 5 wire plugs for the hall sensor wires. So three phase wires and one hall sensor plug go to the first controller and the other three phase wires and hall sensor plug go to the second controller. What I don't know how to do is how to use just one throttle for the two controllers. Either right here in your thread or in PM would be good

I searched and didn't find anything relating to this.
Thanks
Ray

 

[Bluefang]

Simple, just connect both throttle wires from the controllers to the throttle you are using, i would advise you only use one controller to supply the positive and negative. But linking both sensor wires is no problem

I am using a V3 CA with my motor so i just cut the red and black throttle wires short on the controllers and put some heat shrink over them so they didnt touch anything. Then i just paired both green wires from the controllers into a plug connector and connected it to the green throttle wire from the CA. Nice neat and simple, well it will be when i install the new controllers and clean it all up.

 

[Bluefang]

Sorry for the delayed update, had afew issues with getting parts and sorting out all the parts needed for certification. Everything is pretty much all sorted but now just waiting on a new CA V3 as i managed to touch a sensor wire to main battery supply or something and fried mine once i had sorted the controllers. Bought a new one from a australian shop due to the express post delivery and......they got their stock count wrong along with losing my order somehow so it is still on its way 3 weeks after i ordered it. But on to the bike.

Both controllers are on the bike and working, batteries are mounted up in a better location, new BMS and charger system setup to be stupidly simple, 21" front wheel has been binned in preferance for a 16" alloy wheel that looks a ton better, Ducati tail lights and fender eliminator has been fitted, some pannels painted black, new 43AH3.7V battery cells arrived so been building them into a pair of range extender packs. So here is a bunch of pics that will have to do untill later next week when i hope it will be running again and my approved engineer returns from holidays to stick a mod plate onto the bike so i can register it. Freaking huge delay, note to self order 2x the parts needed if your going to push the limits too far.

View attachment 3

 

[John in CR]

I'm worried about the weight, because the flat track race look has gone by the wayside. It needs a skinny owner, so don't sell it to a fat guy.

It's looking great, and those cells are quite interesting. Make sure you put them under plenty of nice even compression.

John

 

[Bluefang]

Currently it's lighter then it was before as I have trimmed some fat from it and the 16" wheel is a lot lighter then the 21". Only problem is I have been told I have a major problem with the scaphoid bone in my wrist so I am currently in a cast. Kinda slowing me down lol. All good as I should have the bike running this week still and I already have a few people interested in test ridding the bike including a 45kgish lady who rides a cbr125 sports bike so hopefully some videos soon.

 

[John in CR]

Sounds good, so it's lighter than it looks. You initial plan still has me wanting to do a flat track-ish build.

Heal up quick. Was the wrist from a crash?

John

 

[Bluefang]

The wrist is a combination of a fall from a bike a year ago that i never got looked at and a fall playing tennis last week that hit the exact same spot and caused complications.

 

[hillzofvalp]

Tell me more About your venting procedure

 

[Bluefang]

Used a bench mounted jigsaw for the alloy cover, just cut out ever 2nd section between the spokes, then cut a slot to mount a blade from the outside worked out really well assuming the polycarb survives which it should or i can easily change to alloy later .

For the steel i drilled thru from the inside using a M10 drill evenly spaced using the magnets as reference points, worked out the angle i could cut with the angle grinder, drilled a hole 5cm in and then using the grinder cut the slots out and neatened them up. Gave it all a quick spray with rust proof paint.




Atm modding the controllers to do regen properly and increasing power to where i want it. Bit of a bitch trying to do everything with my wrist in a caste But by the time the cast is off the bike will be done and registered. If its registered and more importantly insured before i can ride it i ll be getting as many people as possible to test ride it and give opinions on the electronic side of the bike.

 

[Chalo]

Donut wheels don't put as much rubber on the ground as full-sized wheels. Speeds in dirt track are limited by traction.

You've got your work cut out for you.