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My econo-e-bike

amberwolf said:
If it happens, and you reverse-pedal, does it stop? (that should, if it's PAS-triggered, and no throttle signal is present, "instantly" cease any PAS-caused throttle signal output).

I'll need to check on that. For now, after re-reading the unofficial ES user guide, I made an adjustment to the throttle input thresholds, since it specifically calls out auto-cruise and PAS issues that can be related to those settings. If it still happens, I'll turn off PAS in the setup to see if that eliminates the issue; then troubleshoot the PAS setting if it doesn't.

I had a runaway bike incident while doing my maintenance. I accidentally touch the throttle, and the bike bolted across the yard and flipped over, breaking my handlebar on/off switch cluster in the process. I fabricated a switch holder out of ABS and hot glued it to the side of the Grin digital aux switches. I need to clean up some of the excess hot glue, then I'll wrap the switch holder with carbon fiber wrap. I'll make another switch plate out of ABS to mount behind/in front of my CA where I'll relocate my lighting switch and my analog CA input potentiometer.
power switch.jpg

EDIT: Not my best work. Looks a little bit better in real life, but I'm going to have to redo it, after it bugs me some more.

I replaced my derailleur this morning. The bent up 30 year old Deore LX was falling apart, so I replaced it will a cheapo Shimano Altus that feels like a boat anchor, but functions so much better than the old broken down unit, at least judging by a quick lap around the block. I'll do a more thorough test and fine tune the alignment when I go out for a test ride this afternoon.

EDIT: Changing the threshold seemed to improve things, but not completely. It may be just wishful thinking. The issue popped up again after about 2 hours of riding. Up until then things were fine. Similar to the other times, the power level stayed around 280W-300W and after a few seconds, it would drop to zero. I tried to tap the brake cutoff to see if that would stop the behavior, but I couldn't tell for sure if the power continued to flow right after tapping the cutoff, or if it was just dropping to zero. When it happens when I'm using throttle, it's after I let off and watts go to zero. I could be coasting quite a ways, approaching a stop, when it will jump up to ~280W and stay there for a random period before dropping to zero.

I'm also trying to see if bumps trigger it dropping to zero or not. I don't have a consistent feel for that yet. I forgot to try the pedal backwards thing, so I'll try that tomorrow.

On the cruise control, I still need to lower the voltage variation setting to keep it from triggering when I don't want to, even with the long delay. Since I'm using the power throttle, it set itself to 1000W, even though I was manipulating the throttle. Not as scary as full throttle, but still more than enough to get to 27mph-28mph. I'm afraid of trying the speed throttle with autocruise, or just afraid of trying the speed throttle at all without some more research. If the throttle ramping still applies, I might be willing to try it with my power turned way down.

The new derailleur is huge compared to my old one. And triple the weight is my guess. It shifts smoothly and feels great. I need to shift it through it's range a few times when I go out next to get any stretch out of the cable. I was making minor adjustments during my ride, but since I don't shift or only use 2 gears, the cable isn't getting much action.

With that change, the only thing left from my original build are the cranks and bottom bracket. Everything else has been swapped out and upgraded from the original economy build. Once I upgrade to the torque sensing bottom bracket, all parts will have been replaced. What's nice is that it's now just about perfectly dialed in to what I want, even though I didn't really know what I wanted in the beginning. The learn and upgrade as I go along philosophy has really helped, since the original investment was very small, and could be considered tuition, but every upgrade was targeted to get a certain result. I could still put all of the parts of the original kit on a bike and be riding it the same day, so I didn't lose anything. Sure, I still want a full suspension build, but I really need a good rack if the bike is going have any other function besides riding. I'm not a backpack kind of guy either. I think the last upgrade, probably far into the future, will be to build a 21700 cell battery with as many cells as I can fit in the triangle; probably 20S5P and something around 25Ah with 60A+ output. I may skip the BMS if I need the space to get any extra group in, and just have balance leads to monitor and manually balance if it's ever necessary. I will parallel that with 20S 5Ah of 45C lipos for extra boost current.

E-HP said:
The new derailleur is huge compared to my old one. And triple the weight is my guess. It shifts smoothly and feels great.
In my experience, all the Shimanos across the price range shift well (their main reason for being). The differences are in the weight, size, material, finish, bling-bling, and build quality. But they all seem to shift equally well.

Also agreed with what you said about tuition cost. Have to include what a great value E-S is in that equation! :thumb: :es:
amberwolf said:
gobi said:
I found one that comes with the USB > Serial cable, this one does NOT show if it has a regen cable (to turn it on/off)
There is another one which comes with the USB connect cable and regen cable.
Not sure what you mean by "regen cable". With the linked controller, the braking is just a two-wire switch input (either high or low activation, but still just a switch), so you use whatever switch (like on an ebrake or brake lever with brake light switches, reed switch and magnet on a lever, caliper, or cable, button on handlebars, etc) you like, that is open circuit except when you want to engage braking.

If you have a controller that has variable regen controlled by a separate analog (usually three wire) input, then a hall or pot based throttle can be used, even including a cable-operated throttle unit with the cable pulled by a brake lever (which is how my SB Cruiser is setup).
agree, definitely not a variable regen cable.

when I saw it, I was confused, I assumed it is a enable/disable button.

Look down at the connectors, and they have this connector there.

gobi said:
agree, definitely not a variable regen cable.

when I saw it, I was confused, I assumed it is a enable/disable button.

Look down at the connectors, and they have this connector there.

I don't know which connector you're referring to.

If you mean for brake, there is a Low Brake, High Brake, and EBS Enable.

What the EBS Enable does, I don't know because it doesn't specify anywhere on the page. If it means to just enable/disable regen, it seems odd for a programmable controller (which this must be since it also has a USB programming cable right there on the page) to not just have this as a setting; there's not much use for most setups and conditions to have a connector for it that you could run to a switch. Generally a bike or vehicle either would have regen braking, or not use it at all, and not turn it on/off.

It would be much more useful to have a connector that allows you to vary the regen strength, even if it was a simple three-level just like the three-speed one, or even a two-level.

But...it is what it is. :)
Well I guess getting regen back would still be a future desired upgrade, so the Sabvoton version may still be a possible option, at the right price.

For now I keep procrastinating on completing my winter upgrade/maintenance items, the torque sensor and cable harness. Maybe it's a good thing, since now that the cruise and soft start wiring isn't needed, I may use the harness for the torque sensor wire routing as well.

Even though we have half the winter to go, the days have gotten noticeably longer in the last week, and since the weekend rain showers ended and the sky was crystal clear, I had to take a ride. Since it was a weekday, the foot and bike traffic on the trails down by the bay was very light. I ended up barely pedaling the whole ride, just cruising with some light offroad trail riding mixed in. I pressed the button on the GoPro and it actually had a charge, so I shot a little bit of video too.

I think I need to put a velcro strap on my center stand to keep it from clunking around during the offroad stuff. Future upgrade :D

Also, my "upgrade" or replacement of my breaker/switch needs to be redone. Since the new breaker is AC/DC and only rated at 40A, it will trip under DC load (as opposed to the AC breaker I was using before). It will trip consistently if I hit 47mph, which is around 50A, per the simulator. It won't trip under bursts of 7kW, but trips when running continuous. I have a 50A to replace it with, also AC/DC, so hopefully that's good enough, since I never really run high current continuously.

I took a late afternoon ride, and ended up riding up the hill on the way home to see the sunset. It was late, so needed my lights on the way home. This is a spot at the top of a dead end street that is about 1/2 way up the hill. It was a good spot to see the sunset. I was thinking about taking the dirt trail the rest of the way up, but it was getting dark fast, so another day.
half hill 1.jpg
half hill 2.jpg

This is about 1/3 of the way up, at the bottom of the street from the other two pics, where the road Ts. Motor temps stayed under 60C, even though I was too lazy to pedal.

third hill.jpg
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Generally a bike or vehicle either would have regen braking, or not use it at all, and not turn it on/off.

Figuring out the different flavor and scant instructions make it difficult to figure out what the exact nature of the connection and software options.
EBS seems to be the "Regen braking"
It seems to be acting like the FAR Driver regen, it is triggered by a 2 wire switch too. In the software one can set the "LEVEL" of regen braking.

Awesome riding trail you have there, many years back, I walked around the shore in Alameda all the way to the Row Club (where they row Hawai-5 o kinda boats with outriggers. During the day there was hardly anyone around.
Four year flashback.

It showered in the morning, but then settled to an overcast sky and less chance of rain for the rest of the day. The balmy weather and temperatures are great for ebiking, with a nice warm jacket on. I went exploring for a while, but ended up at Point Richmond. The taco shop wasn't crowded because of the weather, so I grabbed a couple for lunch. There's a big hill between the downtown area and the bay, and a tunnel to make it convenient, but I decided to ride up to the top of the hill and over, since I haven't ridden up there in a while.

Coincidentally, I rode up the same hill 4 years ago on my first version of my ebike, very close to the same date, and with the same overcast weather.
econo 4.jpg

Point view.jpg

I end up riding down the hill to that small point up in the right hand corner of the pic. I posted a link to a video of the ride between downtown and the point below.

From the taco shop to the top of the hill is one mile ride. It's paved, and fairly steep, at around 15% for a good portion and 20% on the steeper parts. The view at the top of Miller Knox Peak is 360 degrees, so even though it's only 300 feet above where I started, at sea level, the view is unobstructed in all directions. I rode down the other side of the hill after enjoying the view and eating my tacos.

Hill view.jpg

Hill view 2.jpg

Point view 2.jpg

The end of the line on the video, is the old west coast end of the line for the Santa Fe Railroad. From that point, ferries would transport cargo and people to San Francisco across the bay. The structure is still there, but it's mostly fisherman hanging around the area.

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I love railroad history. I wonder if there are any abandoned lines around you that you could go railbiking down. All the ones here are either torn up or converted to trails. The trails are at least nice, but most of them are just bits and pieces instead of connecting the entire line that used to be there.
thundercamel said:
I love railroad history. I wonder if there are any abandoned lines around you that you could go railbiking down. All the ones here are either torn up or converted to trails. The trails are at least nice, but most of them are just bits and pieces instead of connecting the entire line that used to be there.

A buddy of mine tried one of those railbiking tours and said he had a great time. The area and state are pretty rich in railroad history, with several museums and exhibits. The taco shop where I start my video is on Railroad Ave, and the area used to be a train station, so some businesses, like the Mechanic's Bank, are in old restored railroad station buildings. And, on the other side of the tunnel, there's a big warehouse building that's owned by the local model railroad club. I used to take my kids there and spend a whole day, since the trains were of all scales and the network of tracks modeled the railroad through the entire northern part of the state, from the mountains, through all of the major cities and towns. The local park up the hill from me has the outdoor version of that, but the trains go up to almost full scale, and they give rides on the large scale version of steam trains. The model trains run once a month, or used to. I haven't checked them out since my kids were little.
Three year flashback.
I rode to Berkeley and climbed the hill up to the Lawrence Hall of Science. I took the same ride 3 years ago, but I ended up getting a wood screw stuck in my back tire before getting to the top, and even though I was able to unscrew is from my tire, without puncturing the tube, I felt it would be wise to get back home and do a more thorough inspection. At the time I had my old 1000W MXUX ebay hub, with Statorade. My econo-e-bike

While the Leaf motor had no problems with the climb, this time I was monitoring my temps. Statorade alone kept the temps in check for most of the climb, but near the top, a couple of cars were behind me, so I was pushing a little harder. I rolled back my throttle as the temps hit 99C and let the cars pass, which was enough to drop down to 96C, and I had 50 yards to go, and the road got steeper as I crested the hill at 103C. The temp cooled quickly as soon as I was off the throttle, and the Leaf seemed to be not worse for wear. That was the hottest it's gotten, but I wasn't going to stop a few yards from the top, and it survived. I'll definitely use this hill in a followup to test out the heat sink mod once I install them.

The ride up the hill and back. Beginning elevation 200 ft. Ending elevation 1115 ft.

Cyclotron at the entrance.

View from the observation area.
hall of science 1.jpg
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I've tabled the torque sensing PAS upgrade for now. During the last few months I've developed some pain that's made it hard to stay on the saddle and pedal much, even with the Cloud 9 seat, so I've been throttling around most of the time, semi standing, and split my riding into around 20 to 25 miles in the morning then another ride during the late afternoon. Mostly just putting around at slow speeds, but also some ~20 mph cruising on non-busy side streets.

I've been watching the progress on about a half dozen construction sites, which is pretty cool. There's a lot of digging and setting pilons, and they're using huge cranes to distribute the concrete when pouring the walls.

This was a big hole in the ground last summer.
Aquatic Park.jpg

They carved out part of the hill and are settings piling in deep.
UC campus.jpg

I'm also seeing a lot more wall murals and street art. Seems like it's more the norm than the exception now; if there's a big cement/brick wall, chances are it will be a canvas for a mural; even on buildings that are 4 or 5 stories high.

Farm in the alley
e farm.jpg

e Owl.jpg

This spanned a couple of buildings in the alley. Prince just randomly shows up on the right.
e mural.jpg

Modern art sculpture. Don't ask me what it is, LOL
e modern sculpture.jpg

EDIT 02-24-23 It's been freezing and raining, so only finding time to take short rides. The park a couple blocks from my house has a paved path I usually ride up, but there are a few short single track paths above it on the hillside, so I took a quick ride up and down the hill. Keep forgetting to put a velcro strap on my centerstand to keep the racket down.

EDIT 02-25-23 Not sure what the occasion was, but I spotted this huge flag (much larger than it appears in the pic) hanging over the intersection over by the local community center.
e-flag sm.jpg

Rear brake pads are shot. I think they lasted two months. There's a reason that almost every house on the hills owns a Prius. Anyone living near the top must have to change brake pads a lot. I really miss my regen.

EDIT: 03-02-23 It recently dawned on me that while I get pretty cold riding my ebike, I never had that problem when riding my motorcycles. The difference is, on my motorcycles, I'd always wear leather. I recall that's when I'd discovered the benefits of leather and started wearing leather jackets all the time, even when not riding. Well I pulled my jacket out of the closet and went out for a late afternoon ride by the bay, where it's been pretty chilly riding along the water. Wow, what a difference. I could enjoy the cool and slightly balmy weather, just like I used to on my motorcycles. With my earphones playing the right tunes, I could just cruise, relax and enjoy.

Riding from the Albany "Bulb", up the hill, the Golden Gate Fields race track is at the top, and back down the other side to the stables. Only a few people out, so very peaceful.

EDIT: 03-03-2023 Riding a little further out to Oakland to expand my radius a little. I decided to ride up into the hills where the "firestorm" burned over 3000 houses on the hills above Oakland in 1991. I haven't been up that way since almost that long. I did ride my motorcycle around the area a couple of weeks after the fire and it was pretty bad. It was all ashes.
Anyway, I planned to start up Hiller drive which was and now is mainly condos, then wind around Charing Cross Rd that has single family custom homes, then down Tunnel Road the my starting point. 200 ft or so starting elevation, 950 ft at the top, 15%-20% on the way up, 18%-26% on the way down (and I ended up having no back brakes after about 1/3 of the way down). Starting motor temp, 52C, peak temp 90C (it was steeper than I had expected, plus I started at sea level getting to the starting spot so the motor was warm).

This looked like a good spot to let my hub cool. The condos above have a pretty expansive view. Motor was right at 90C when pulling over, but cooled pretty quickly.

The spot is at the top of the parking lot on the left in the stock photo below, so the condos are above;

If you follow the street as it winds up and around, then down on the right, the road continues on, and down the hill. Obviously the shot below was right after the fire:

I was expecting to see some cool custom homes, but was a bit disappointed. There were several homes that would qualify as cool looking, except for the fact that even though none where the same, the felt the same architecturally since they all were built at the same time to replace what was burned down. Oh well. Of course the views are spectacular from the inside with any of the houses along the hillside, LOL.
Hiller 2.jpg
The ride down was terrifying. It was steeper than the route up, and my rear brakes that were already on their last leg completely were destroyed, with zero stopping power. I was relying on my fronts only, and fortunately they were up to the task. Whew!

I was surprised when I got to the bottom that I hadn't really used that much battery, I pedaled a little on the steeper parts on the way up, but the motor did most of the work. I didn't really need to stop at the 90C point, since the grade had decreased and the temp wasn't climbing fast, but it was convenient and a good spot to see the view.

I ended up riding over to one of the other neighborhoods that was burned in the fire (Broadway Terrace), and those homes were very cool. All custom, and each had it's own character. It was nice to putt around slowly and look at the homes and their landscape. They had great views, but they weren't all about the view.

I will be interesting to look more around Oakland.

EDIT 03-06-23 Nice day for a quick ride around downtown Oakland, Lake Merritt, and Jack London Square

EDIT 03-17-23 I feel like I just changed my tires, but looking back, it looks like that was back in January of last year for the front and April for the rear. I noticed over the last few weeks, when riding through a couple of curves on the path, that the bike felt pretty sketchy, sliding through the corner. Both front and rear tire are bald. That's with a little more that 3000 miles on the front, and probably only 2500 miles for the rear, so I guess that's normal wear. I have one Specialized Big Roller but need to order another. At least the Big Roller wore longer than the CST tire that wore out right away when mounted on the rear; the front has lasted until now.
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I've discovered how well my GoPro works for data gathering. I found a bunch of GoPro stuff I had, since I only used one of the mounts and forgot about the rest. One of the mounts allows me to mount the camera on my stem, so I decided to use it to record the CA data in real time. It works great for gathering data, and the stabilization makes the display crystal clear. I have to adjust the angle next time so I don't get the reflection of my dumb head.

You can't really spend time watching the readout in situations when you're on the throttle, but from quick glances and mental math, I think I was getting 5V to 5.5V of sag. My normal riding is with the 3 speed switch on low, but the controller provides pretty high current up to ~40MPH where it tops out in low. I run my battery from 83V down to 73V. I'd like to keep voltage sag to 3V or less in my normal riding since I have my CA roll back power starting at 73V. I don't want it kicking in too early due to sag, so hitting the throttle hard at 76V with 3V sag shouldn't trigger rollback. The GoPro made recording the data easy. I should have done this when collecting my temperature data.

I did five or six roll on acceleration runs, from 15mph and accelerating between cross streets. Leaning slightly forward at that speed avoided any chance of accidental wheelies. That's usually how I would use the most power, since I don't regularly do hard starts off the line. I think the second run provided the best data. The battery without load was at 81.4V (coasting up to the cross street) at the intersection, and it dipped to 76.5V when accelerating, or 4.9V sag at 4046W and 52.8A. Video starts at the second run.

Currently I have 3Ah of 30C lipos in parallel with my 14S lithium ion pack for burst current, and to provide voltage support. Now I have to figure out if I should go with a higher rated discharge lipo, or higher capacity for the support pack. The 6S Graphenes that are in series, have virtually no sag even at 70A, so it's really about beefing up the 14S part of my frankenbattery.

Here's the control case running the 14S part of the pack without voltage support lipos. Starting at virtually the same starting voltage, I'm hitting close to 5800W, which seemed a little odd, but the sag was significantly greater are around 9V, so the helper lipos are eliminating about 4V of sag. It's hammering the Samsung pack, pulling more than the continuous rating, but within the max that can be pulled from the cells.

I also collected some hill climbing data that I'm reviewing now. I tend to use less than half throttle when climbing a steep hill to keep the speed down, since I really don't want to flop over backwards. Upon initial review of the video, the bike was only doing 3500W or so max, but I haven't looked at the sag yet. This is a great way to collect and nerd out on the data, LOL.

This data will be useful for longer term planning of my future battery pack build and finding the right 21700 cells that can do the job without too much sag.

EDIT- the hill climbing data didn't provide any insights into the sag issue, but still provides usage info. The first hill isn't steep, and the second one is short and moderate, but the type that I would climb more slowly since most of the steeper off road trails tend to be rutty due to rains, so I keep it under 15mph most of the time and go light on the throttle to avoid losing traction. I think I'll try some steeper and slower climbs and get some temp data too.

I went on a short ride before sundown and did another quick sag test, but no revelations except that the sag is very consistent and proportional to the power usage.

EDIT 03-31-23 It keeps wanted to be sunny out, and it has been, a couple hours at a time. But mostly, still overcast and warm jacket weather.

GGB Overcast.jpg

EDIT 040223 Another almost clear day.
GGB Cyprus 040223.jpg

EDIT 04-10-23 I was on my way home from a ride and decided to head to the top of the hill. I had enough charge left that I shouldn't have hit my CA's LVC rollback. I hit record on my GoPro about 1/3 of the way up; it needed charging but there was a little juice left. I notice power dropping off near the top, but the voltage looked good, so it didn't make sense. Then, I looked to the right and saw the motor temp was at 106C and rising. Fortunately the grade decreased a bit and it started dropping slowly, and dropped to 98C or so at the top. GoPro battery ran out before then, but I got some good data.
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I noticed Hobby King has a decent selection of lipos in stock in their US warehouse, which means free shipping is an option. I've been planning on upgrading the 3Ah lipo packs (2 4S, 2 3S) that I have in parallel with my UPP triangle pack (35E, 40A). The lipo specs say 30C, 40C peak, but I thought I could count on 15C (45A) without too much sag, or 85A from the parallel packs. I have the CA limiting current to 70A and power to 6000W, but still get more sag than I want during midrange acceleration.
So, in a second attempt to eliminate the sag, I ordered a couple of 5Ah, 7S packs. Their specs says 60C, 120C peak, so if I can count on 20C with negligible sag,, that's 100A. I'm hoping to up the CA current to 80A, or 90A in unlimited mode. My performance goal is to beef up my midrange acceleration by getting rid of the sag.

While waiting for the packs, I'm conducting three midrange roll on tests. From a cruising speed of 20 mph, recording performance to 30 mph under full throttle roll on. I'll repeat it for 25 mph to 35 mph, and 30 mph to 40 mph. I think the pack upgrade will have a measurable performance improvement, so the before and after will be interesting (data to geek out over). The other benefit will be fewer individual packs to manage. The small packs are in great shape and all the cells stay balanced, but they fall short of their purpose so I'll find another use for them.

First test, 9 runs, 20 mph to 30 mph. After examining the footage frame by frame, I'm seeing between 2.5 and 2.75 seconds. It's hard to be accurate due to the slow update times of the CA display, so it took a fair amount of judgement. It's especially hard to get to a steady 20 mph to start from and not being off or too much on the throttle before rolling it on. The times are slower than if the bike was already accelerating, but still feels strong enough to compete in slower traffic.

I'm starting to get close to impacting my flat tire defense. I just need to get unlazy enough to swap my tires out.

EDIT: I just realized that I'll need to find a better stretch of asphalt to conduct my other tests. Getting to a steady 25 or 30 mph before rolling on the throttle isn't going to happen on these short sections of bike path.

EDIT: 04-22-23 The only place nearby that seem to fit the bill was the trail by the race track, along the bay. I rode over there this morning and there weren't a lot of people out yet, so I was able to get a few runs in, two in each direction for 25 to 35, then 30 to 40. There was a moderate cross wind, and by going in both directions, should reduce any issues with grade, although it's pretty flat. I'd say the acceleration between 25 to 30 is still OK for city traffic, but I'd love to get the 30 to 40 to be like the 20 to 30 performs currently, and based on the Grin simulator, I think somewhere between 80 and 90 amps can achieve that.

Lately I've been riding more on the street than on the trail. Now that there's construction and maintenance going on again, I've notice some of the roads that have been neglected for the last 3 years are being repaved and it's great to ride on a freshly paved glass smooth surface. I can see they are going to fix the trails as well since the ruts and bumps due to roots, etc. have florescent paint identifying them, so hopefully they'll be fixed soon. Having the extra acceleration will really help to create that additional margin of safety.

That lady in the third run surprised me. She was jogging backwards, so coming toward me rather than away, so I had to shut it down quickly.

EDIT: 04-24-23 I tried a hillclimbing voltage sag test on the way home yesterday, on the 20% I use for motor temp testing. I decided to ride up faster this time, since I'm studying the voltage sag, when in the past I've kept the speeds to around 20 mph and did some light pedaling as well, since that was more of a real world scenario when normally riding up the hill. I needed to set the 3 speed switch to medium for this climb. Plus, I had cars following behind, so I started with 20 mph on the 15% section and sped up to 30 mph, but with the intent of ramping up to 35 mph on the 17% part of the climb. I was still mainly keeping an eye on the motor temp, since the GoPro was recording the rest of the data. Well when I got to the 17% and rolled on the throttle, click, my breaker popped. I forgot about my undersized DC breaker. On other climbs, I still had the old AC breaker being used as a switch, so I never had the issue. Oh well, fail, but I still got some good data, which shows why my 45A breaker popped since with the sag, the current shot up even more to 73A. If I could have maintained 80V, then for the same power, I'd only be drawing something in the mid 60s.

EDIT 06-03-23 Almost 1000 miles later, I'm still riding on my bald tires. They are looking even thinner now, so I have to find some time soon to swap them both out. I think I actually saw some cords when I stopped to take a break, but wanted to ignore it. Rear wheel is still running true with no clicks or creaks from spokes, so that's good. I still have the torque sensor upgrade, hub heat sinks, and other upgrades that have been on the list for a while, but now that the weather is getting better, I don't think I'll want that much down time.
I saw this little alley way yesterday, and checked it out. I thought it would go through to the next street, but it dead ended at what was a pretty cool spot, with a restaurant with an open courtyard. The owner said they were having live music that evening, so I made a mental note to go back to try it out with the wife. I find a lot of spots like that while putting around, so it's always good to slow it down and enjoy. I really need to change these tires though....
My Sunshine.jpg
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Ugh, I still haven't changed my bald tires and I'm pushing 5k miles now with threads showing through both. I've been taking shorter rides, staying within 15 miles of home, just in case I get a flat. I think I'll need to change them this week, since worrying about getting a flat takes away from the enjoyment of riding.
In the mean time, my rear rack totally fell apart, breaking in the same place as the last on, near one of the welds on the main legs. I ended up buying the same rack again, the third one, since it's one of the few that will fit my setup. Since they've all had a common failure point, I decided to eliminate that issue by redesigning the legs, using straight 1/2" aluminum tubing for the main legs, and using the stock legs for secondary support for the front of the rack but vertically, which should keep them from breaking again. I used parts from all three racks, epoxing the solid adjustable part of the legs into the aluminum tubes to attach to the rack.. The results are pretty sturdy and can hold a lot more weight, and totally rigid. I test rode with it for about 60 miles, and will be removing every nut and loctiting them in place and hopefully not having to deal with it again. It's solid enough to hold my weight now!

Now I just need to get motivated enough to change both tires 😲 I may even wash/clean my bike, since it hasn't had the crud washed off of it for almost 4 years. I also still have my consolidated cable harness and torque sensor installations on my list, which is getting pretty long, but the riding weather has been so nice that those items are literally on hold for a rainy day.


In the mean time, my rear rack totally fell apart, breaking in the same place as the last on, near one of the welds on the main legs. I ended up buying the same rack again, the third one, since it's one of the few that will fit my setup. Since they've all had a common failure point, I decided to eliminate that issue by redesigning the legs, using straight 1/2" aluminum tubing for the main legs, and using the stock legs for secondary support for the front of the rack but vertically, which should keep them from breaking again. I used parts from all three racks, epoxing the solid adjustable part of the legs into the aluminum tubes to attach to the rack.. The results are pretty sturdy and can hold a lot more weight, and totally rigid. I test rode with it for about 60 miles, and will be removing every nut and loctiting them in place and hopefully not having to deal with it again. It's solid enough to hold my weight now!
If you can add some lateral triangulation to the rack, from the inboard side of the rear vertical supports to the bottom of the rack itself (or better to the opposing sidetube), it will help prevent the problem you're seeingg, which is often from the "wag" the rack sees during all the lateral movement of the bike on a ride. Bend something back and forth eough, even a tiny bit, and eventaully it can fracture.
This was a great thread to read through. Nice detail! Thank you for sharing.
(y) It's always a work in progress, but having fun!

If you can add some lateral triangulation to the rack, from the inboard side of the rear vertical supports to the bottom of the rack itself (or better to the opposing sidetube), it will help prevent the problem you're seeingg, which is often from the "wag" the rack sees during all the lateral movement of the bike on a ride. Bend something back and forth eough, even a tiny bit, and eventaully it can fracture.
I think taming the wag may be difficult, but doesn't seem to be the main problem, except for contributing to nuts coming loose. The main reason the rack legs are breaking is the lateral stress applied to the main leg by the front support arm (see pic). Both racks failed at that point, breaking where the adjustment part is welded. With the new design, the main leg is only providing support to the rear of the rack, and the repositioned front leg provides support for the front of the rack.

I agree. Always a project. I’ve done so much to my bike. Recently, I changed my handlebars. To gain a higher hand position, but they were too wide. I just trimmed 19mm from both ends (682mm now) and now have a great riding position. I just never take pictures, because I try to stay focused and that’s the last thing on my mind. It’s great when I see threads like yours. It’s very inspiring.
I finally replaced my tires this morning. It went a lot faster that I had anticipated, because all of this time I had thought I had two extra tubes inside each tire, but found I only had the main tubes, which made the swap a lot easier. I had forgotten that when swapping them the last time, I added FlatOut to the tubes, and removed the extra ones. That also means I got 5k miles out of them without a flat, with only the FlatOut for additional protection. Personally, I think it's just luck, unless the FlatOut was sealing holes that I wasn't noticing. In either case, I'm going with the same setup and same tires.
After riding on bald tires for several months, the new tires handle a lot differently, now diving/leaning easier into corners, and just more nimble overall. Axle nuts and torque arms were all tight, and a quick check of the drivetrain showed that everything was in order. Now I can take a few longer rides that I've been holding off on for a while. (y)

EDIT: My bike is so much more nimble with new tires, with the rounded profiles rather than the flat bald tire profile. What I didn't expect was that I hadn't aired up the tires in a long time, so going from the low 20lbs up to 30lbs really affected performance. I kept looking down to see if I had switched to medium speed instead of low on the 3 speed switch because I was unintentionally wheelieing at every intersection. I guess I have to add airing up my tires at something more than every couple thousand miles into my normal maintenance schedule, LOL.


Facing the opposite direction
Campanile 2.jpg

The UC campus is on a hillside, with around a 300ft elevation gain between the front and back of the campus, about 6% average, but with gentle rolling paths that are enjoyable to ride around, especially when school isn't in session. The students have returned from summer break, so it's a little more congested, but not as much as when all the classes are going on. I'm seeing even more electric scooters this year than in the past, and ebikes as well.

The bells in the clocktower were chiming right as I was pulling up.

The downside of the new tires is that for the last 6 months, I've been riding around totally silent on bald tires, and now that the new ones are on, I'm getting that knobby buzz, but apparently not loud enough to be picked up by the camera, but I can hear it <sigh>.

EDIT 09/02/23 I sort of raced a Surron today. I had charged my bike up to go out for a quick ride while the wife was out. I pedaled a little for the first mile just to get some exercising out of the way, but then just cruised. I always slow way down where the streets cross the path, but I see bikes blasting across a lot. I think cars almost expect it and usually slow down before the crosswalks anyway.
I was slowing down for the crosswalk, which was a little congested with pedestrians, when someone blasts by me on the right. A Surron. I've seen the rider around, but usually going in the opposite direction. I crossed the intersection, sped up and passed, and I guess it was on after that, LOL.
We had some spirited but safe racing for the next mile or two; but slowing down to 15mph or less when we encountered any other bikes or foot traffic. I had the midrange torque advantage in these conditions, so while he'd pass when I'd slow down at the crosswalks, I could just roll on the throttle as soon as the coast was clear and pass. At one point, we moved to surface streets, parallel to the path. He had the advantage of full suspension and didn't have to slow down for the speed bumps.. We moved back to the path, but I was going to be peeling off to the right at the next street to ride down to the bay, so as I pulled up along side one last time and I saw him get down into a tuck, which to me indicated he hit the inflection point in the torque curve when acceleration starts to drop. When I saw that, I switched from low to medium and although I didn't wheelie, my bike lurched forward with another instant 5 or 6 mph to about 45mph. I looked in the mirror and could see he just gave up, but good thing since like clockwork, my breaker tripped right at 47mph as I approached the intersection. I just reached down and reset my breaker while making the right, and kept going. Probably would be good thing to replace my breaker before our next encounter ;)

EDIT 09/03/23 It's been prime ebiking weather, and great for just taking leisurely rides. I took a ride up the hill, taking a random route up (~820 ft elevation gain). Basically, at any intersection or fork in the road, I would go the uphill direction. I ended up seeing a lot of streets I've never rode on. There were a couple of times where what looked like an uphill street turned into downhill, but it worked out in general. I pedaled a lot, although not really contributing, but just for some aerobic benefit. Near the top, I noticed my temps rising, so I actually pedaled for a couple of blocks in order to keep my temp below 90C.
The ride down was similarly circuitous, although I ended up riding down the last 600 ft in a straight shot (my usual testing hill for climbing).
Down (I talked to my buddy on the phone for a half hour, so the motor was almost completely cooled down)
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I thought that I'd gathered enough temp testing data to move forward on my low profile heat sink mod for my Leaf, but had an interesting observation the other evening when riding up and back down on my medium steep testing route. I was at 22C when I left my garage at around dusk, and the weather was cool and balmy. I climbed the hill at my target speed of 19mph-20mph, that seems to be the sweet spot for a sustained climb to ensure getting to the top without overheating or having to back off on the throttle much. I can speed up to keep up with traffic, but I try to do my testing when there aren't very many cars. I've never seen an ebike or bicycle going up any of my testing routes. I turned on the camera about 2/3 of the way up to start recording data, and I needed to roll back on the throttle for the last few blocks to not hit triple digits, but pretty easy to keep it in the safe range.

The interesting observation is how the motor cools. When up in the high 90's, any reduction of throttle is met almost immediately with a decrease in stator temps. It will drop 3 or 4 degrees in a few seconds, making it pretty easy to manage by throttle, and not rely on the CA temp rollback. It's how to motor continues to cool that was of interest. Cooling from 100C to 80C happens very fast when off the throttle. 70C down to 60C takes a while longer, and cooling below 60C takes even longer. From my ride the other day, it took about a half hour to get down to the 30C range from 90C+, by letting the bike sit. I need to look at my video logging to see if I have enough data on the cooling characteristics to compare with once I add the heat sinks. In the end, I'd like to be able to a 1000ft sustained climb at 20mph without exceeding 97C or so and a stretch goal of cooling down from there to 30C in 15 minutes or less.
Notice I'm still above 55C at the bottom of the hill :(

Ultimately, after installing the heat sinks, I'd like to ride up to the top of Mt Tam, from Stinson Beach without stopping. My wife and I have ridden up the mountain literally over a hundred times on mountain bikes when we were less gray, and I look at it from my livingroom every day. The last time I rode up was over 10 years ago, but because Marin county seems to be ticketing ebikes, riding up the dirt trails is more risky, so the 2400ft paved climb from the beach seems to be a better option to experience the view from the top again after so long. The ride is less than 7 miles and the grade is pretty moderate, and I'm guessing my bike could even do it now without stopping to let the motor cool, but I think the heat sinks will be good insurance since I've never done a sustained climb that long yet. The best thing is that if something goes wrong, it's downhill all the way back :).

EDIT 9-9-23 I went out this morning and did some spirited street riding, on the way to the trail head. I don't usually ride that way for more that a minute at a time, but today I was having fun going fast, with lots of hard cornering and acceleration. The streets were empty, so I could race around without having to deal with cars, and ended up fooling around like that for a half hour or so, until I suddenly felt a loss of power. Took me a few seconds to realize that it was thermal rollback kicking in, with the CA pegged at 100C...oops! First time I've seen temps that high on flat ground. I must have thoroughly heated up the motor since it took longer to cool down than usual. I sat at the trail head for about 15 minutes before the motor was cooled enough to do some dirt riding, which I rode at a more subdued pace.

EDIT 9-24-23 Perfect autumn day for riding. The sky was clear, sunny, and only a slight breeze to keep the temperature perfect for a long leisurely ride. I stopped by outside of several outdoor cafes that had live music playing on their patios/stage. Yesterday was some type of bay clean up day with lots of people all over the shore, but today was peaceful looking in all directions.

Autumn Ride 1.jpg

Light breeze. I guess it must be perfect for those small sailboats.
Autumn Ride 2.jpg

Unusual not to see any white caps.
Autumn Ride 3.jpg

EDIT 09-28-23 Indian summer. It's warmer than summer now, but the days are starting to get shorter. Shifted my afternoon riding so I can enjoy the sunsets. I get home just as it's getting dark. I need to order a replacement rear light, since I accidentally tossed my old one when I replaced my rack.
Autumn Ride 4.jpg

Autumn Ride 5.jpg

Autumn Ride 6.jpg

EDIT 10-14-23 The mornings have been overcast, but clearing up in the afternoon, so doing the majority of my riding during the late afternoon. It's been in the high 60s, so good with a light windbreaker.
10-14-23 37.888551 -122.325056.jpg

I've been a little troubled with how my motor has been heating up lately, starting about 3 weeks ago, observing it warming up after a decent number of bursts of hard acceleration, even on flat ground, which it didn't do before. Then I went on an offroad ride, doing some temp testing, I had a few episodes where the motor temp climbed really fast. My conclusion is that I need to top off my Statorade. I'm not sure whether adding Statorade should be done on a periodic basis based on time or on miles, but it's only been a couple of years and around 7k miles, but that's the only thing that I can think of that potentially has changed.
In this video, you can see how quickly the temp goes up at a couple points, and how it jumps up about 10 degrees in a few seconds at the end of the video, even after releasing the throttle. The other observation is how long it takes to cool down, and was still in the high 70s after a pretty long descent, when normally it would be down to the mid 60s.
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I haven't been riding much for the last couple of months. Family stuff happened, and too much to deal with. There was about a month that I didn't ride at all, and removed the batteries and charged them to a storage level, just in case. I finally started getting back on the saddle, about two weeks ago. Problem it, it's been raining for most of that time, and cold, so only getting in short rides between the rains. I got caught in a big downpour last week, so staying within a smaller radius, too, so I can get home quickly.

Today started out sunny, and the forecast had no rain, so I had a cup of coffee on the patio while charging my bike. It was sunny, but cool, so I put on my leather jacket. I rediscovered my leather jacket when I started riding again. I've been wearing windbreakers and then heavier jackets during the winter, but it occurred to me that I rode in a lot of cold weather on my motorcycles and was comfortable for the most part, especially at speed. Leather is perfect to ebiking, doh! It's been great, and less to deal with than layers and an electric vest.

It was pretty cool riding along the water, but not too bad. Last week there was a cold north wind, but today it was blowing the opposite direction. Not sure if those clouds have any rain.
Winter Break 1.jpg

Nobody was going in the water, not even the dogs. Usually there are a few that swim out to fetch sticks, but I think it was a little too chilly for that today. Quite a few folks out enjoying the sun though. I ended up riding 4 towns over and taking a lot of back street on the way home, so got about 30 leisurely miles in.
Winter Break 2.jpg

My list of maintenance and upgrades for the winter downtime is growing out of control, so I'll need to prioritize.
I want to take the hub apart to inspect the motor, and to replenish the Statorade. While it's apart, I'll inspect the bearings for possible replacement, and check the spokes, etc. Since I'll have it off the bike, I'll probably add the heat sinks to the case while I'm at it.
I have the ERider torque sensor to install, so that's another item. I have to do the wiring for the power supply, which is just another PITA deterrent for doing the install, but I have all the parts, so we'll see if I get to it.
I also have my wiring cable to consolidate 6 (maybe 7) cables running between the front and back of the bike. If I tackle this, I'll also go through the controller wiring again to see if I can get regen or cruise control working. I have the spare wires available in the cable I have.
I need to spend some time cleaning up the cockpit. I'm using a potentiometer as the analog input to my CA to adjust power, but it's just sort of sitting on top of the CA mount, so I need to make a little plate to mount it on. Mirror needs replacing too. I might get around to installing a couple of voltmeter displays for monitoring my franken-battery pack more easily. Right now I just do math in my head between the CA and the volt meter monitoring my 6S lipos.
I think there's a lot more, but I have to look in my box of parts, since I have everything to do my upgrades, except the motivation LOL.
The last thing I need to do, and maybe one of the first I should spend time on is rebuilding my fork. It's pretty much lost most of it's oil and I need to replace the seals. It bottoms easy at this point. I don't think it's completely unsafe, but it definitely dives under hard braking. It still tracks OK in corners and uneven pavement, but I avoid bigger potholes. Sort of an accident waiting to happen.
Of course if the weather is nice, all of that can wait until for another day 🙂.

EDIT: 01-11-24
I had about 90 minutes to go ride before rain was forecasted to start, so I went hot rodding around on the hills. I decided to gather some more data on my motor cooling that I can use for comparison once I replenish the Statorade and add the heat sinks. I'll use this same section of hill to record the comparison data.
I'm using a section of a longer route I use for testing, warming up the motor to around 60C before the test section (157 ft to 433 ft elevation). I didn't limit my speed while climbing since my testing is primarily on the cooling side.
This street is great for real world testing, with a variety of grades, with a gradual rise at first, then hitting around 18.8% at the steepest point, before leveling off where the road T's (followed by another steep climb on that street).
P Hill.jpg

I have the motor mostly warmed up at the start of the video. I went straight at the intersection to go up a decent hill of around 14%. I never went up that road, but it ended in a cul-de-sac, which I've never seen at the top of a steep road. I'm right at 60C when I make the right up the test section. The steepest point is at the deer crossing sign, just shy of 19%. The motor is just hitting the target temp of 100C at that point, and climbs a bit more while I turn to descend.

Based on reviewing the video, the motor is cooling at a much slower rate than when the Statorade is working. At the point where I make a right on the way down, it would normally have cooled to the lower 60s, but it's still hovering around 70C. I'm guessing that this will be readily apparent once the Statorade is replenished, and performing the same test. Ambient temps were around 50F (10C).
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I'm looking forward to your torque sensor install. I'm planning a similar upgrade for my bike. I'm sizing up what it will take to install a Cycle Analyst. I'm pretty certain I've found the torque sensor I want to use. Got to get the CA first.

One thing I wasn't expecting was that if I install the torque sensor, my chain line will be off 3mm. I'm not sure if that is enough to make a difference though. Currently my CL is 53, with the new sensor, it'll be 50. Have you measured this on your bike? is there a difference that you are expecting?
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It's been a long time since I've gotten a flat, and just over a year on this tire. My luck ran out today when I took a long ride to go meet a buddy of mine for lunch, a couple towns away. I was almost there when I heard a loud pop, and metal clanking as the wheel turned. I stopped to find this, with only the screw head sticking out.


Some observations: I was half expecting the FlatOut in the tube to not be flowing like when I added it, but it was fine. The positive news is, it actually sealed the hole on the outer part of the tube, and filling up the tube with my CO2 inflator didn't produce a leak from that hole. However, the FlatOut wasn't able to seal the hole on the inner part of the tube by the rim, which makes senses. Anyway, I'll be adding it again, since it seems to be very effective. You can see the fibers from the sealant that allows is to plug pretty big punctures.
I guess another positive is that I'll probably do a few of the upgrades and maintenance that I've been procrastinating about, now that I'm taking the wheel off. Not sure I'll get to the torque sensor though. The third positive was that I pushed the bike to a gas station they let me keep it there while I went to get my truck, which was a life saver, since I had just pushed it 3 blocks up hill. The flat ruined my day, but it could have been worse.
The flat ruined my day, but it could have been worse.
Yeah, the screw could've gone all the way up thru your rim and split the rim open. :( (been there....)