E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

[one4torque]

Unhooked the controller, and rear wheel spins free.

I notice a click-click when I apply power to controller.... so controller is fried.

I installed a low power 30am 48 v spare Cry controller I have lying around.... and rear motor is fine.... but @ 30mph top speed it's a bit of a snooz.

I'll order a new controller this week.

 

[one4torque]

When you blow your cyrstaylte controller.... there is nothing to do but p/u the guitar and play some ebike blues.... enjoy. Put this together tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zeE_vRH7GY&feature=youtu.be

 

[Rix]

When you blow your cyrstaylte controller.... there is nothing to do but p/u the guitar and play some ebike blues.... enjoy. Put this together tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zeE_vRH7GY&feature=youtu.be

So it was the controller? How many volts were you running?

 

[one4torque]

Yeah... the controller was dead. once I unhooked the controller the wheel would spin fine.
Weird that with NO power to controller.... it would still inhibit the wheel turning.

When you apply power to the old controller it made a couple clicking sounds then inop.

I installed a 30a/48v crystalyte cont I had laying around.... and it runs now fine. a bit of a snooze with only 48v/30A.

I was running 84 v hot off charger.

I'll buy a new controller then back in the game.

 

[Rix]

Yeah... the controller was dead. once I unhooked the controller the wheel would spin fine.
Weird that with NO power to controller.... it would still inhibit the wheel turning.

When you apply power to the old controller it made a couple clicking sounds then inop.

I installed a 30a/48v crystalyte cont I had laying around.... and it runs now fine. a bit of a snooze with only 48v/30A.

I was running 84 v hot off charger.

I'll buy a new controller then back in the game.

Thats strange, that 24FET 90amp controller has 4110 Fets, 84 volts is well within the operating range of your peak volts.

 

[one4torque]

Is it possible the bad throttle I was trying to use..... hosed the controller? In any case, no big deal.... after I mounted that big azz controller, I was already thinking about a smaller replacement... that mofo is HUGE!
LMK if you can rec a suitable replacement. Jeffro-the-bodine.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

What size laminations are in my H40xx motors?

All Crystalyte motor's I'm aware of use 0.5mm laminations. Thicker laminations are cheaper to make, but cause lower efficiency and more cogging. I don't actually know if the TC motors use 0.35mm laminations, but it's one potential explanation for lower rolling resistance.

Yeah... the controller was dead. once I unhooked the controller the wheel would spin fine.
Weird that with NO power to controller.... it would still inhibit the wheel turning.

Not weird actually. That's symptomatic of a shorted phase within the controller.
You can simulate this by just manually shorting 2 phases together with a jumper lead or similar if your curious.

If you getting a new controller, I would recommend an Adaptto, but you've gotta be prepared to spend some time learning it, setting it up, and tuning it for your motor.
If you just want the quickest/easiest route to getting back up and running, just grab an 18Fet Infineon:
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=41_38&product_id=83
These are essentially a drop-in replacement for the Stealths that came with Cycle Analysts, except with these you can program them to be a LOT more powerful if you want.
I'm not sure if they work with the DC1 however.

Cheers

 

[Rix]

Hey CD, 14Torque is running a TC3080, the Adaptos won't work on that motor as Allex had shown us.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Hey CD, 14Torque is running a TC3080, the Adaptos won't work on that motor as Allex had shown us.

Ah yes, good point Rix, I had forgotten that he's running a TC, and yeah won't work with an Adaptto...too bad really

That being said, an 18Fet Infineon is still gonna be great, and grab it with a programming cable and you can really unleash the beast.

Rix, since you're one of the one's with the most experience running a TC, what do you reckon it could handle? 200A Phase, 100A Battery...more?

Cheers

 

[Allex]

I did run my Leaf at 150amps and 300phase, doing great @8kW
The TC will do the same no problem. Of course both of them will heat up rapidly!

 

[one4torque]

surfing around aliexpress last night.... I found some 5000watt 72v 100a controllers from China. $330 shipped.
Has Ipod interface... Might try this one.

 

[one4torque]

thx cduck... got one of those controllers on order

 

[Rix]

Hey CD, 14Torque is running a TC3080, the Adaptos won't work on that motor as Allex had shown us.

Ah yes, good point Rix, I had forgotten that he's running a TC, and yeah won't work with an Adaptto...too bad really

That being said, an 18Fet Infineon is still gonna be great, and grab it with a programming cable and you can really unleash the beast.

Rix, since you're one of the one's with the most experience running a TC, what do you reckon it could handle? 200A Phase, 100A Battery...more?

Cheers

Right now, the only TC I have running with any time on it is the TC4080 on the Bomber. I am bursting 70amps DC/175phase and its only getting warm after extended hill climbing. Ironically this motor is a lot less demanding power wise. I don't know what the inductance load difference is compared to the 5404, but the TC4080 pulls harder from a dead stop, and as speed increases, wattage output demands decreases way quicker than with the 5404, which BTW, decreases quicker than the 5403. Big thing I noticed is the 5404 WOT on flat ground no pedaling @ 43MPH is using 3500watts, the TC4080 at 44MPH is using 2600watts. The TC is using 900watts less doing the same work. Thats impressive numbers right there. As we speak, my dad is doing a hill climb ride from the Boise Train Depot to Bogus Basin ski resort, thats about 21miles and over 4800 feet elevation gain. With the 5404 and pedal assisting his ass off, he uses 1290wh doing this 42 mile round trip. Dad only uses 70-80wh on the return ride as its almost all down hill so thats like 1210wh on the climb. Also uses alot of regen on the return trip, Dad figures hes regening at least 50wh back into the battery. Anyway, we are speculating that Dad will use less with the TC4080, how much less, not sure yet, will know later this afternoon. As far as my TC3065 goes, I just tested it, good to go on the bench so to speak. Im waiting on some JB weld as I am going to work this motor over and reinforce the magent like Doc Bass did with the MXUS 4T and then coat the stator with the stuff you used. Then I will statoraide it with the ferrofluid. So I am probably a week or more out from being ready to run the TC3065.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I did run my Leaf at 150amps and 300phase, doing great @8kW
The TC will do the same no problem. Of course both of them will heat up rapidly!

WOW - That's quite the power pumped through the little thing.
I do plan to try 100a battery, 200 phase as some stage with it, but my Mini-E probably won't like much more than that.

Right now, the only TC I have running with any time on it is the TC4080 on the Bomber. I am bursting 70amps DC/175phase and its only getting warm after extended hill climbing. Ironically this motor is a lot less demanding power wise. I don't know what the inductance load difference is compared to the 5404, but the TC4080 pulls harder from a dead stop, and as speed increases, wattage output demands decreases way quicker than with the 5404, which BTW, decreases quicker than the 5403. Big thing I noticed is the 5404 WOT on flat ground no pedaling @ 43MPH is using 3500watts, the TC4080 at 44MPH is using 2600watts. The TC is using 900watts less doing the same work. Thats impressive numbers right there. As we speak, my dad is doing a hill climb ride from the Boise Train Depot to Bogus Basin ski resort, thats about 21miles and over 4800 feet elevation gain. With the 5404 and pedal assisting his ass off, he uses 1290wh doing this 42 mile round trip. Dad only uses 70-80wh on the return ride as its almost all down hill so thats like 1210wh on the climb. Also uses alot of regen on the return trip, Dad figures hes regening at least 50wh back into the battery. Anyway, we are speculating that Dad will use less with the TC4080, how much less, not sure yet, will know later this afternoon. As far as my TC3065 goes, I just tested it, good to go on the bench so to speak. Im waiting on some JB weld as I am going to work this motor over and reinforce the magent like Doc Bass did with the MXUS 4T and then coat the stator with the stuff you used. Then I will statoraide it with the ferrofluid. So I am probably a week or more out from being ready to run the TC3065.

Yeah, it sure sounds like they are using 0.35mm laminations. Next time you have it open measure then with a calliper if you feel so inclined.

That difference in WOT power has gotta be more than just a motor swap though. There's no way the motor design change can contribute 900 watts of difference. I would say there are other factors at play...worn bearings, thicker phase wires, better phase termination, controller likes the TC better. Plenty of potential reasons.

Will you also vent it together with the FF, or just FF to start with?

Cheers

 

[Hyena]

Rix, since you're one of the one's with the most experience running a TC, what do you reckon it could handle? 200A Phase, 100A Battery...more?

I ran one for over a year in my old fighter with a sabvoton pumping out 150A peak and 350A peak phase amps. It took it fine, though obviously some common sense applies. That said, it was also that bike I raced at the hunter EV festival and the motor held up fine to 10 laps of full power abuse under race conditions. It was only when I broke the axle I had to swap it out for a H40, which I promptly smoked. [insert gloating from quietrush] :lol:
The picture comparing the 2 stators has done the rounds multiple times now and shows how much extra power handling the TC40 has over the H40 despite them both sharing a 40mm stator

 

[Rix]

That difference in WOT power has gotta be more than just a motor swap though. There's no way the motor design change can contribute 900 watts of difference. I would say there are other factors at play...worn bearings, thicker phase wires, better phase termination, controller likes the TC better. Plenty of potential reasons.

Will you also vent it together with the FF, or just FF to start with?

Cheers

Not sure whats going on, but my 5404 is in great shape. I have SKF bearings pressed into it and they are tight with only 1900 miles on it. Hell, they feel knew. Phase wires are in excellent shape. I have 10g PTFE phase wires stepped down to 11G PTFE just outside of the cover of the motor. Phases are good. Don't see anything that would cause the 5404 to draw more current except three things. First, its an older motor, technology and efficiency with hub motors have improved over the last 4 years a little bit, you can see this by comparing the 5403 to the TC40100 on the simulator. Second, the 5404 weighs 12 pounds, about 5.5kg more than the TC4080, possible there is and increased demand for current at higher speed as inertia comes into play from the increased rotational mass. Playing on weight and inertia mass issue, I also have an 18x1.40 rim and an IRC TR1 2.75-18 tire on the TC4080, the 5404 has a Shinko SR241 2.75-19 and a heavier 19x1.40 Rim. The rim, tube, and tire combo is exactly 1 pound 1 ounce lighter than the Shinko according to my scale. So all these differences add up. I just didn't think it would 900 watts.

 

[Rix]

Rix, since you're one of the one's with the most experience running a TC, what do you reckon it could handle? 200A Phase, 100A Battery...more?

I ran one for over a year in my old fighter with a sabvoton pumping out 150A peak and 350A peak phase amps. It took it fine, though obviously some common sense applies. That said, it was also that bike I raced at the hunter EV festival and the motor held up fine to 10 laps of full power abuse under race conditions. It was only when I broke the axle I had to swap it out for a H40, which I promptly smoked. [insert gloating from quietrush] :lol:
The picture comparing the 2 stators has done the rounds multiple times now and shows how much extra power handling the TC40 has over the H40 despite them both sharing a 40mm stator

I remember that race. Followed your progress like a hawk, if I recall correctly, your axle one brake/phasewire side was supporting all the weight after the axle on the drive side shit the bed. Then you had someone make a HUGE axle for you. Is that right?

 

[one4torque]

So after work today and a cleared head... I gave the Alpha Flux a nice 12 mile ride... albiet on lower power, but a ride none-the-less..... and I've got to say this thing is really growing on me.... I GET IT...... the light wet, the minimal feel, the mid/topend....... it's like a bike again vs my heavy SB's...... I also like the upright riding position.

I've got this spare lyen controller, I might test out. It was in a box of spares I picked up in a deal.

 

[Hyena]

if I recall correctly, your axle one brake/phasewire side was supporting all the weight after the axle on the drive side shit the bed. Then you had someone make a HUGE axle for you. Is that right?

Yeah bad regen settings and a slightly flared drop out from a previous failure with no pinch bolts doomed me. Once I fixed the issue even the weaker H40 axle didnt break under 12kw.
And yeah, the drive side ate it and I managed to complete the lap with the motor only held to the frame by the other half of the axle. Pretty impressive. That motor is semi retired at the moment, still sitting on my old raptor with a dead battery. I blame the arrival of the FLX frames, those bikes are now dominating my time, building, testing new motors, etc. Gotta have a working high powered example of each. Good problem to have

One4torque, if you reckon the alpha is light weight you should try the beta, it's nearly half the weight again depending on how you set it up. With single crown forks and a lighter motor is't super nimble. I got mine finished off and going on the weekend and I'm really loving it! Totally an electric bicycle, not a light / cross over electric motorcycle 8)

I dont want to spam FLX stuff too much in the stealth thread but given their common pedigree I'll slip this one in

 

[Rix]

That is awesome Jay, came out clean and nice. I know you are busy, but I would like to see a video of that machine in action. Its okay to spam the Stealth thread with FLX, if this was a vehicle thread, it would be like spamming a GM thread with Chevy pics.

@One4Torque, looks like you got your Flx Alpha remedied. Sweet.

 

[Hyena]

I know you are busy, but I would like to see a video of that machine in action.

Hah, that's like walking into a church and asking the priest if he'd mind having a chat about Jesus Christ

Let it be written, let it be done! (just gimme a few weeks!)

 

[one4torque]

I thought the flux frames were made by stealth.
Perhaps im mistaken. /:-

 

[Rix]

I thought the flux frames were made by stealth.
Perhaps im mistaken. /:-

You being funny? Of course FLX is made by Stealth, however, Flx is a separate entity. Kind of like the original designer/engineer for Chevy start GM.

 

[biknut]

I'm liking those single crown forks. Don't show me stuff like that, it gives me ideas.

 

[Jimboyr6]

if I recall correctly, your axle one brake/phasewire side was supporting all the weight after the axle on the drive side shit the bed. Then you had someone make a HUGE axle for you. Is that right?

Yeah bad regen settings and a slightly flared drop out from a previous failure with no pinch bolts doomed me. Once I fixed the issue even the weaker H40 axle didnt break under 12kw.
And yeah, the drive side ate it and I managed to complete the lap with the motor only held to the frame by the other half of the axle. Pretty impressive. That motor is semi retired at the moment, still sitting on my old raptor with a dead battery. I blame the arrival of the FLX frames, those bikes are now dominating my time, building, testing new motors, etc. Gotta have a working high powered example of each. Good problem to have

One4torque, if you reckon the alpha is light weight you should try the beta, it's nearly half the weight again depending on how you set it up. With single crown forks and a lighter motor is't super nimble. I got mine finished off and going on the weekend and I'm really loving it! Totally an electric bicycle, not a light / cross over electric motorcycle 8)

I dont want to spam FLX stuff too much in the stealth thread but given their common pedigree I'll slip this one in

Love this light set up
B interesting to measure the rear end on some scales to compared the weight over the backend to say bomber etc
I must admit if i could have good range and lightness im in,more ££££ though
It what lets the bomber down in my opinion