Ebike road race bike: Questions and build info

I guess it would have to be...Its got to be figting with itself pretty bad....but there is the "interupt" circuit that should protect the thing.

that "interupt circuit" is the 1st mod i make building the smaller controllers...enabling the suicide mode. sounds like you may have got there without help.

I have a slew of 12fet controllers with me,& the programing software. your free to try one out on any voltage your heart desires....(up to 100 anyway) make a bee line to e-tards place & we'll see if we can't get something running fast enough to have fun on.
 
I'm think at this point I'm going to try a different motor build, see if I can't get it thrown together by tomorrow. But I'll probably end up bringing 3 different types of motors with me to see what I can't get together while I'm out there. I appreciate the offer, I'll bring a couple of the colossus motors along with me to see what can be done. I was kind of set on using those just cuz I need to start testing them. But at this point, I just need to get something moving for this event. If the colossus is being too much trouble, I can always take more time to sort it out after I get back home from this trip.
 
Ok, how much volts can a 9 continents motor take? I've heard that there are different types of 9 continents. How do you tell which one it is? When I ordered it, they were listed as 1000w motors. I was told they were 36v kits but I could push them to 48v. I burned out a controller running it with a 48v LiFePo4 pack. If I got a bigger controller, how many volts can I go with these motors?
 
There's a whole thread dedicated to that, ;) but basically it doesnt' matter--it's how much *current* can they take, which IIRC is from 40-60A depending on the winding version, before the current is causing saturation and just heating the motor.

Also, how much continous power you cna push thru depends on how well you can cool it off. If it's sealed up, maybe 1500-2000W for a while, depending on the speed you're at relative to it's no-load speed. (play with the ebikes.ca simulator to see overheat times there)

If it's ventilated properly (lots of debate on how to do that), you could get more, but only if you can get rid of the heat at least as fast as it makes it.

One thing I definitely don't recommend is using regen braking on a hub race motor, because it is going to make it even hotter, without doing anything to help you go faster. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
There's a whole thread dedicated to that, ;) but basically it doesnt' matter--it's how much *current* can they take, which IIRC is from 40-60A depending on the winding version, before the current is causing saturation and just heating the motor.

People have identified this motor as a 9C. Do you agree? Can you tell?
40A is the continuous rating. Peak is 2X

motor Hall Placement 003.jpg
 
Dunno--it looks very different from the 2807 9C I have on CrazyBike2, and the others Iv'e seen pics of. The entire stator support stuff appears machined instaed of the stamped metal mine has.
 
AW yeah, I tried doing a search, but it pulled up a bunch of references to using the motor, but I couldn't find any references to specifics.
 
IIRC, someone was running 60V @ 60A on A 9 X 7 9c Motor, and going about 40 MPH or so, don't think it was ventilated, but maybe that was just for short trips, probably wouldn't hold up to racing conditions either way with out ventilation. :idea:
 
The catch with racing is it isn't just holding a speed, it's accelerating as hard as possible to max speed, and then holding speed a few hundred feet, then more accel after braking for corners, over and over for several miles at a time.

That's a lot harder on the system than riding fast on the street (except for those that ride like the street is a racetrack ;)). Most of the time on the street max power is not used for very long at a time.
 
Jay64 said:
Ok, how much volts can a 9 continents motor take? I've heard that there are different types of 9 continents. How do you tell which one it is? When I ordered it, they were listed as 1000w motors. I was told they were 36v kits but I could push them to 48v. I burned out a controller running it with a 48v LiFePo4 pack. If I got a bigger controller, how many volts can I go with these motors?


You ve going to love me for this Jay , oh yes you will ! ..Check What we are using - abusing : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20321&start=90
 
I'm bombing down the interstate w a van full of batteries, motors, and something looking lime a bicycle. I'll try to figure something out when I get to California.
 
I made it to Cali in 48 hours. Probably could have gotten there soon, but it took me all day to pack up the van and to get some things done around the house since I was going to be gone so long. So I ended up having to take an extra 3 hour sleep stop that I probably wouldn't have needed if I started driving right when I woke up that morning. So I decided to not do the colossus motor on this build since I had one day to do it when I got to Cali. I had brought a 9c hubmotor with me, but it was laced in a 26" wheel. I took it down to a bike shop in SoCal and asked them to lace it into a 20" rim for me. The told me it would be done by 2pm, two hours. I was an hour away from any of the places that I needed to go to, so I figured I would just have to turn right around and come back if I left. So I hung out in the parking lot till 2. No phone call. But 4 I went in to see what was taking so long. They told me it couldn't be done. :shock: Why wouldn't they tell me that at 2pm when they were supposed to be done??? But I knew that Tostino had put his 9c into a 20" rim, so I knew it could be done. After trying to convince the guy that it could be done, I called Tostino and confirmed that he had this setup, and how he laced it, I convinced the guy to lace them axial. By the time they got done, it was 5:30 and then I had to drive to Etard's house in rush hour SoCal traffic. So I didn't get to Etard's till after 6:30. Etard, Thud, and I thrashed on getting our builds done till 4am. I really need to thank those guys for the use of the space/tools and for the advice/help.
3am.jpg
This is my bike progress at about 2 or 3 in the morning the day of the race. We woke up at about 8 am and got back to working on the bikes. We thought that the second heat was going to be at 2pm, so that is what we were shooting for. We definately missed the first heat. I still didn't have a controller, so I had to run up to the race to pick one up from Lyen at the track. Thanks Ed, really cool that you showed up and brought extra supplies. Turns out they ran the second heat early, so I had already missed that too by the time I got up there. When I got checked in, the ebike final was in about 12-20 minutes, so I missed that too. Finished up the last couple of details on the build 15 minutes before the Ultimate race, which was a combined gas/ebike race. This was supposed to be the top finishers from all the heat races, but Neil let me into the race. Thanks Neil. I had gone with a banana seat so that I could change my riding position to help with the bike handling. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a proper sissy bar to support the back. Etard scrounged up some aluminum stock that I used to make some braces for it. But the way I did it, it didn't give it enough lateral support, so during the race, the seat actually rotated out to the sides coming out of each corner. I had to use my legs to push it back into position. I would have been much better off just sticking with the stock seat and not having to worry about it, since I wasn't able to move around on the swinging seat anyways. Info for the rebuild. I really like the way that Thud did his support. I think I will try to incorporate that as well. The battery mount ended up being an achilles killer. When I pedaled my heel would hit the corners of the aluminum plate. So I quickly realized during the race that I had to keep the heels of my feet on the pedals. Need to redo that as well. I think I might end up trying to make smaller sub packs of these cells so they fit in more places on the bike and are not so over bearing. That will also help with weight distribution.
All in all, it was good to get the bike on the track for all the hecticness of racing across the country and the near all nighter the night before. The bike held together for the whole 12 lap race with an unventilated motor and no torque arms. The motor was pretty damn hot at the end, couldn't keep a hand on the cover for more than a few seconds, but it survived. gonna try and get that vented now to do some more testing with it. Now that I have more time, I need to look into getting a charger setup that can take my 22s pack up to their full voltage. I only had it charged to 84.5v at the start of the race so that was also putting a damper on my top speed.
After we let the motor cool down for a bit, I let me nephew try the bike out in the pits.
rory_evgrin.jpg
He got his first ev grin and now really wants to get one. He just moved to LA to become an actor, so he is still in the starving artist stage of his career, so I think I will try to put something cheap together for him to ride around LA with to go to his auditions and stuff. His parents let me live with them for a while when he was a baby when I was in the starving racer stage of my career, so I guess I owe him. :lol:
 
[youtube]s4uQEhdr6Gw[/youtube]

This was taken by my nephew on his phone. That is Ed Lyen in front to the right.
 
Post race.
post_race.jpg

post race of the bike.
race_bike.jpg

close up of the bike after the race.
close_up.jpg

Crossing the finish line. That is Lyen in front in the stands.
View attachment 5

Heading down the front straight
front_straight.jpg

Heading out to the start line. (yes, these aren't in chronological order. :lol: )
View attachment 3

Coming out of the last corner on to the straight.
View attachment 2
 
Got a pretty cool stamp of approval today. I went down to meet up w my suspension guy in SoCal. Turns out he is now working for the factory rockstar Suzuki 250 team. So when I met up w him he was at the factory team shop. He introduced me to a few of the other mechanics and the crew chief. Then I pulled out the electric race bike to show it to them. They all took turns riding it and all were stoked by it. Then the pro rider from the Yamaha shop right next door, jimmy albertson, came and rode it and gave a similar reaction. I gotta get the good build done and bring it back to show them.
 
That's soo cool Jay! Hopefully when you come back from Hawaii I'll have the Jr Brute back in action for good, then you can feel the true non hub acceleration of a Thud tuned racer. I should be headed back up by Grange on my way out to Barstow for a poker run. If you are around you should meet me up there. I'm planning on getting on the track to see how she compares to Farfle's lap times. Any plans to put more power into the 9C? How many C are you running those batteries at anyway? Hell, I got an extra Turnigy here, let's strap it on SoSauty's bike and see what she'll do! :twisted:
 
Dave, That sounds like a plan to me. I would really like to try out that Thud bike. I definitely would be willing to Put some more power to the 9c. But I want to find out if anyone already found the fail limit. No sense Blowing something up in an experiment thats already been done. I will try and research out some of those threads while in hawaii. I have 2 of those EIG 22s 20ah packs, so we can run them in both of these bikes I have, but the bike I got from Will doesn't have a running motor. I'm not sure that I want to risk The castle controller with my colossus motors. Unfortunately I didn't get any data Because I didn't have any instrumentation at all On the bike while at the races. But Will's bike has a CA So I can put that on my bike when I get back And we can get some data. Couple things I was thinking about on sunday, Was That since my charger Would not fully charge the 22s pack, I could either take a few cells out so that's it still would be 84 volts but lighter, or I could add a couple more partially charge cells to the pack to bring the pack voltage closer to 100 volts. But there is also the chance that the charger I have Can be adjusted up to 100 volts. I will have to investigate that also. If not, maybe I can buy a cheap 12 volt charger to put in series with that. I will be back in california on the 10th. That would be cool to hang out with you again But without the 4 am build stress :lol:
 
etard said:
Hell, I got an extra Turnigy here, let's strap it on SoSauty's bike and see what she'll do! :twisted:

Sorry, I read that and responded to that on my phone last night. For some reason I was thinking you were saying you had batteries to strap in there. :oops: :oops: :oops: Hell, yeah. If you want to throw your motor in there for a test, I'll fit the EIGs in there and we can have a go at her. I was thinking of putting my turnigy that I have at home in there once I get back. If you want, you can come with me with your bike when I go back down to their shop to show them a better product. It's cool when the factory pros think your stuff is cool.
 
I also took the bike down to Cycle Rider. When I raced for Matsushima Performance, the shop was right next door to them. We used to use the parking lot as our little test/race track for our 100-125cc pit bikes. I did a couple fast laps around the parking lot with the ebike, when I did my fast lap, the tires were hopping and chattering in the rough corners. Then I let a few of the guys who ride motorcycles test it out. I got a video of one of them on his last lap. He wasn't pushing that hard on the bike because it was his first time riding an ebike, and he was working at the time. :lol: But his comment right at the end is cool.

[youtube]H6YutomNLP4[/youtube]
 
markobetti said:
You ve going to love me for this Jay , oh yes you will ! ..Check What we are using - abusing : http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20321&start=90

I was on my phone checking everything while driving across the country before, so I didn't get a chance to check links. I was asking about using the 9c motor because that is what I had laying around the house when I packed up for the trip. The original plan was to use the 7kw colossus motor I got from you guys, but I'm still trying to work out a controller for that motor. I need to use the motors I currently have before I go and buy more motors. That motor does look good though, I haven't read all the way though the 13 pages of that thread yet, but so far it looks good.
 
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