Ebike road race bike: Questions and build info

The lame thing is that when I ordered the forks, I payed extra for priority shipping. That was 7 days ago and the company has yet to give us any communication whatsoever that they even got our order. We emailed and called on multiple occasions to make sure they at least got the order and it is at least on its way. No communication back from the shop at all. Not really happy with their customer service at all.
 
Lookin good Jay! Plenty of room in the frame for almost any combination there. It's real stretched, it'll be hard to get around you, but I'll sure try! :lol:

I'm thinking you need disc brake mounts on that fork, have you ordered the DMR Trailblade fork? I have a 24" set of those with no suspension, I think Luke runs them on his ebike too.

Good luck with it, be awesome to race with you man.

edit:

Just found a pair with 20mm axle for $110 shipped to your door Jay! Might have to lace in a new hub, but it would be nice and stout for sure.

http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-21078-dmr-trailblade-2-rigid-mountain-fork.aspx

Here is another pair I just discovered with disc tabs:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=15678
 
Looks like it's gonna need the fork angle changed to work with a smaller wheel. I like the start though.
Brian L.
 
Yes, both sets of forks have both disk brake mounts and rim brake mounts. That is the problem with the 26" forks, the rim brake mounts get in the way of the outer edge of the Pirelli tire. At this point, I may have to look at another set of forks from someone else, since Manitou bike shop still has not contacted us. I'm at the point where I am going to cancel the credit card charge and buy something else. It will definitely be a blast running around the track with you guys. I don't really think the length of the bike will be an issue to get around. The only time the length would be an issue is if I was backing it into a corner, but I really don't see that happening with this frame. Like Thud said, way too much flex in the frame for that. It is a general good rule of thumb when racing, but maybe a little more so with a longer bike, don't follow. Even if you are behind another bike for a long time, don't "follow" the same line as the bike ahead of you. You can't pass if you are on the same line. :wink:

Rally, I really don't think I'm going to get around to changing the fork angle for the initial build of this bike. I'm thinking it will be close enough to just ride around issues like that.
 
Jay64 said:
...
Rally, I really don't think I'm going to get around to changing the fork angle for the initial build of this bike. I'm thinking it will be close enough to just ride around issues like that.
Click to expand...
I agree, and for these reasons:
1. You're a racer
2. You will be not be doing 150mph
3. You have extended the wheelbase, changing the weight distribution so there is more force on the front wheel, reducing the need for trail
4. Rake (or head angle) influence on handling is way over-rated
5. You're a racer (Ok, I mentioned that already but it is the over-riding factor)

Cheers,
GT
 
gtadmin said:
2. You will be not be doing 150mph
Click to expand...

What?!?! We're not?????? Damn it. Nevermind, I'm not going! :lol: :lol:
 
Finally got a response from the shop selling the forks......they just sent them out today, 8 days after I placed the order, AND they sent them out ground. Even though I paid extra for priority shipping! :evil:
 
I guess normal shipping would see you get them around this time next year. :roll:

What'd they say about refunding you the priority shippng?
 
amberwolf said:
I guess normal shipping would see you get them around this time next year. :roll:

What'd they say about refunding you the priority shippng?
Click to expand...

Take a big wild guess........they haven't responded. At this point, I'm kind of thinking of cancelling the whole order with the credit card and refusing the package when it arrives.

Screw it. I'm modifying the 26" rock shox forks today.
 
I suspect these discount houses are not inventorying any parts at all. Just re-selling out of the real whare houses for a few % cheaper than true brick & morter shops. purly a phone account & a web site.

Niagra cycle is the same way. can't get expidited delivery, ever...even when they promise, the stuff allways takes 10 days to arive....which is BS cause UPS is 2 days for everything else from that area for me. They screw up a lot also when buying tires anyway.

chop them forks real good Jay.
 
The place actually has a brick and mortar shop as well. But they act like they are two different companies. The real store won't accept any phone calls dealing with the online store. Maybe it is just an online discount store using their name. Oh, well, I'm still going to harass the brick store with phone calls since their name is on the business. I understand not having the part in stock and taking a while to send it out. Kind of sucks that they don't say it's not in stock, but I can kind of understand. But at the same time, they should have at least given some communication and saying it probably won't ship out until such and such date. The thing that really pisses me off is that they took a long time to even send it, and then on top of that, they didn't send it priority, even though I paid extra for priority! WTF is that?! To me that is straight up stealing.

I ground down a nub on the rim brake posts on the 26" forks. The tire clears now......unless I rotate the wheel, there seems to be a spot where it is out of true and that one spot still touches. I'm having it trued up right now to see if I can get it better. I can completely cut the posts off, and I probably will end up doing that. But I didn't want to just cut them off to patch another problem. Hopefully they can true up the wheel and it will clear properly, then I might end up cutting off the posts just to make them lighter. The nub that I ground off has the tiny hole in it. It looks like a spring or something from the brake arms goes into it. I suppose now that I got rid of that hole, the brakes won't work properly anyways, so no sense trying to save the posts for a future project that might need rim brakes. I guess these forks will be purely disk from now on.
I guess it normally doesn't make much difference with a regular bicycle wheel and tire, but does anyone bother to balance their wheels? I'm thinking with these heavier tires and tubes, coupled with the increase in speed over regular bike use, maybe balancing might be a good idea.
 
My Pirellis from Thudmiester were smooth as butter up to 50 mph so done right they should be good.

Have you gotten a chance to test the motor under load yet Jay?
 
etard, no, I don't even have the motor mounted in the frame yet. You act like I'm getting close to a dead line or something. :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm also still trying to figure out how I'm gonna do the rear sprocket. I know what I'm going to do (well, at least at this moment I think I know what I'm going to do. :wink: ) but I'm still trying to figure out HOW I'm going to do it.

Just wanted to give you and thud a sneak preview. What out boys, 36v of badass SLA coming at yo ass! :lol: :lol: :lol:

36v_sla.jpg
 
looking at my callander today has me worried el grande'.
time is wicked short....I need to box all my shiet & get it sent off to etards so its there for the monster garage build fest. that & get all etards stuff back together LOL...

SLA?......I conceed. :mrgreen: No way to compete with that technology. Etard, maybe Jay will tow us around the track so we can enjoy the scenery.....where Is that scheamin Sosauty anyway...I know he is assembling a world beater for this event...(we shall see :wink: ) he'll is due to unveil it soon me thinks.

Jay,when are you leaving for GA? then its a long haul to Cali. We'll hopefully have the bikes ready to race in time for the event LOL. My interest is really starting to wain.....hunting season is upon me.....better things to do than blow money on e-bike BS LOL!
 
Well, I think I changed my plans for the GA part of the trip. It was going to be a dirtbike/flat track session, kind of some cross training. But I just found out that there is going to be a track day at Daytona International Speedway on the 13th. I missed the Daytona race this year so I have no data for my AMA race bike for this coming season. I figured it was a much better use of time/money to go test at Daytona with my actual race bike than to go do cross training. So I'm going to Daytona on the 13th instead. But Daytona is only 3 hours from my house, so I can still come home for a few days after the testing before I head out to Cali. I was supposed to start my trip on the 12th to hit the GA event, now it looks like I can stay until the 17th or 18th.

I just threw together another ebike real quick out of my chopper frame. I just zip tied a couple of batts to the frame to go have some fun around the neighborhood. But I thought it was a funny pic to post right in the middle of this build info. :mrgreen: Yeah, my interest in certain things is pretty much gone, but I still want to do this build anyways, even if I just jump the fence at the local go cart track that closed down and have a go at it. I do really look forward to meeting up with you guys though. That will definitely be worth the trip to Cali.

So I did some more grinding on the 26" forks today. Cut the rim brake mounts completely off. Wheel fits in nice and neat now.
on20s.jpg
I coasted it down the driveway to get a feel for it. No motor, no brakes, no chain, and only one pedal! :lol: :lol: I really need to do something about the seat to be able to really ride it like I want to. I noticed that the front rotor is SUUUUUUPPPPPER close to the fork leg.
20inch_front.jpg
I actually thought it was rubbing, but did notice that there is a c*^thair of a gap. There is an actual thick spacer piece that the rotor bolts through, so it looks like I can machine that down the give the right gap I need. Machine that down......makes it sound like I got some CNC machine or something.....looks like I can get my grinder out and make that sumabitch thinner! :lol:
I'm hoping I can get some work on the battery mount tonight/tomorrow.
 
The kickstands that came with the tidal force and the xtracycle were way too long once I put the 20" wheels on. It wouldn't even stand up straight, it was leaning past vertical away from the stand. Both were really nice new stands, so I really didn't want to cut them. So I pulled the kickstand off the other frame I was thinking of using and started hacking off bits till it held the bike at the angle I want. Waiting till I get the final version decided on between the 20" and 26" forks, then I will weld a little foot on the end to make it more stable. But I will take that off during any events of speed.
 
kickstands on a race bike?
Dump that weight! LOL.

Ill get some photo's of my work bench tonight..gotta get the motors all assembled almost as good as SLA batteries....what a wreck! a marathon controller building sesion is on the book for tomorrow. Lots to do..I need to unplug the phone so no one calls looking for help moving or fixing stuff. Oh & turn off the stupid computer... :lol:
 
Yes, the kickstand is definitely coming off for any events. It just makes it easier when I have it sitting around the house that I don't have to have it leaning on something all the time.

I got a question about getting a charger. I have a couple of packs of EIG batts. As far as I can tell this is the ones that I have.
http://www.eigbattery.com/

Right now my 2 packs are built as 22s packs. Which would put my Max charge voltage at 91.3v and my Nominal Voltage at 80.3v according to the specs on their website. I have a battery charger that came with these packs and it is a 72v charger and the max charge voltage seems to be about 84.7v. I seem to recall being told that it was originally a SLA charger that was modified. So I'm not getting the full potential into these packs. Can someone recommend a charger that will get the 22s packs to max charge voltage?

Follow up on that, what if I decide to try to max out the 100 v controller and reconfigure to a 24s pack? That would put my Max charge voltage at 99.6v and a nominal voltage of 87.6 v. I found this charger on hobby king that says it can do 4x6s. If I make the 24 pack into 4 sub packs for charging, would this work? I would be able to have one 24s pack with charge leads every 6s and charge it while still hooked up as 24s, right?

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...ttro_4x6S_Lithium_Polymer_Multi_Charger_.html

edit: maybe I should post this over in the battery tech section.
 
Definatly not optomizing your energy there Jay, & do post in the Batt section, the techies don't browes the general discusion too much.

I charge with modified power suplies hooked in series to get the voltage required for pack charging...I also am notorious for leaving my packs in a "quick re-configureable" condition. I rarley have any one set up left together long enough to justify a dedicated pack...I use cheap 6cel lipo bricks & bullet conectors for ease of configurablity. since i share batteries on a couple bikes I run 12cells on the bmx, prolly be running 18s for the race.

If Luke showes, he'll have a master zapper that'l definatly put the jucie in your batt's.
 
Can't help much other than to tell you DONT buy the charger you linked
i have seen many complaints of these not working on delivery or breaking soon after
the first use...Perhaps a couple of meanwels in series Jay...?

KiM
 
The link on your battery just goes to the EIG main site. Which battery is it that you've got? (they make a few, including different chemistries like NMC, LiFePO4)

EDIT (added): These are the three spec sheets for the cells:
C020: http://www.eigbattery.com/eng/product/3.jpg
F007: http://www.eigbattery.com/eng/product/6.jpg
F014: http://www.eigbattery.com/eng/product/5.jpg
In the numbers printed on the cells will be one of the four character codes above left, which will match the datasheet link to it's right.

I would not use a regular charger, but rather something like a lab adjustable-current-limit adjustable-voltage supply, and then some other high-current supply in series with that that can add to the lab supply's voltage to give you more than the total you want now (so you can up it later).

LiveForPhysics has said in a thread or two that he uses some HP server supplies in series with a large rackmount lab supply to do this. I have plans to do something similar on a smaller scale for my own LiCo packs from reclaimed laptop cells, as I have a 55V 55A Sorenson that I can eventually series with a non-current-limited supply once I find one with a high enough current rating.

Depending on the max current you wanna pump into those packs, you might not need something so large. Ebay and other places often have lab supplies like this for not too expensive (nothing like their original cost), and electronics surplus warehouses local to you (if any) may get them in now and then, too. The server supplies are apparently plentiful and relatively cheap, based on some recent threads about such things.

Anyway, it's something you could box up into a single more portable unit, with cooling, and it'd almost certainly be more reliable than most of the chargers available out there, and way simpler to adjust voltage and current limits on as your pack evolves. :)
 
Lovin that bike Jay! :D

You know, just for fun you could put wheelie bar wheels at the back of the extra cycle just to tweak competitors! :wink:

You could also use the extra cycle cargo "pannier" mounts to add some stabilization for less flex, but I imagine you've already ruled that out and decided to live the with flex?

Anyway, looks great keep it up! 8)
 
I was reading some kind of bad reviews of that charger I linked, but it was the only thing close that I could find in my searching. But because of those reviews I really wanted to check here first before going and wasting money. I don't know if I really want to do any high current stuff. I believe these cells are only rated for 0.5C for charge according to the spec sheet. I will do some more work learning about voltage supplies. I've heard of power supplies, what are lab supplies? Is there a difference?
I have no idea what is going on with that link. When I pull it up in my bookmarks, the page for the specific cell comes up, so I just copied and pasted the address without really paying attention to it. But if I refresh the address after the cell page is up from my bookmarks, then it refreshes to the main page. :? Anyways, the cell is the 20ah ePLB C020, the top one.
C020: http://www.eigbattery.com/eng/product/3.jpg

LI-ghtcycle, Dude, I have been joking around about doing that EXACT thing! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I think that would be funny as shit to have wheelie bar wheels on the back! :mrgreen: I have also thought about building up the xtracycle pannier mounts to help with the flex. I haven't ruled it out, but I'm sort of thinking that the way that I would build them up to stop flex, might ruin them for their intended use in the future. If I was building an all out race bike for some well organized pro series where money was involved, I would go all in. But seeing how the current race scene is just for bragging rights and having fun, I'm trying to leave all the components as re-usable as possible. I'm hoping to do a real long distance ride in the near future, and I want to use the xtracycle for that. But then again, if I snap the extension during the first track event, then I'm pretty much ruining it for future use. :lol: :lol:
 
I have this charger :

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11170__Turnigy_4x6S_Lithium_Polymer_Battery_Pack_Charger.html

It's pretty much the same as the one you linked to, I haven't had a problem with it so far, it seems to work great. However, I am only running it with a 150 watt supply, so this might be the reason it has not failed so far.

Switching power supplies are the way to go for fast charging between heats and the Meanwell power supplies seem to be the safest bet as there is mucho information about these supplies here. You have to be careful when ordering on ebay, it must say Meanwell in the title or you will get a clone. You also must do the current limiting mod or you will fry your power supply within 10 uses, because it will run over it's rated output in this application. Also, some of the suppliers are in China so you will not receive it till 2-4 weeks. The server supplies are basicly the same thing except usually higher wattage and only put out 12 volts each so you will have to series a bunch together to get your desired output voltage, and even then it's a fairly advanced procedure to find all the pinouts and find the method to finely tune your voltage. The good thing about the Meanwells is they have a tiny pot on the front that lets you dial in the desired voltage

Check out this thread:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=31723&hilit=server+supply

And if you have the time there is THIS thread :shock: :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1292514
 
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