Ebike road race bike: Questions and build info

[Thud]

LMAO Jay,
get you bike settled in your mind & build away!

I just picked one of those 6.5 preditors (on sale for $99 with a members discount) up for a kart build (grandkids will love it in a couple years) & its a really nice Honda clone. Since the AGK guys showed up at willow with their monster, A few guys went nutz & started building with with the "big block" LOL.
http://www.affordablegokarts.com/

That motor will take all the clone tricks right on up to alcohol conversion....(ever see a fully built 3.5 horse brigs motor making 30+ hp on a jr dragster? )

If Bicycle racing is going to survive, they are going to need to set classes based on engine cc's & not unmeasurable HP ratings...I only been building e-bikes to compete with 50cc morini's.....these are a whole different class....& adding variators is really putting them into motorcycle performance teritory.

The 99cc preditor would be a fun motor to build with....but I tire of the noise of a single cyclinder thumper very quickly....I perfer the shreik of a higly tuned 2-stroke..add multi cyclinders (the old TZ's) & it only gets better. If i wanna here a proper 4-stroke tuned. I'll go to a NHRA race

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Yeah, but apparently these motors are 212cc and only rated at 6hp. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Screw it, I should just get one of these, they are only $100????, and send it to my ICE engine builder. See how fast we can go on a 6hp motor.
Anyone got a link to one of these? Is this the one they are using????
http://www.harborfreight.com/predat...d-for-all-states-except-california-68120.html

If you build a 4 stroke over 11.99 hp I will put you in the Unlimited Class
which means that you don't get to race in the Ultimate race or the 11 hp class.

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

I don't have an EV sponsor yet. I do have a few ICE sponsors, gotta see which ones will be willing to come over to the dark side with me. :lol: :lol: Actually, October is the month for getting all ICE sponsorships finalized for 2012, so I might see if I can roll both of them into one package! :lol: Maybe I should bring some of my guys up to the Grange race and get them excited about it. I would love to be able to put a team of ES riders together, but that would increase the sponsorship budget by a lot. I don't even know if I can get sponsors for the EV racing yet, and if I do, I need to make sure that I can get enough for my racing. If I can haggle the sponsors to give more for a bigger team, I will definately bring you guys on board. I personally would like to see the unlimited race be the top race. If we could get 5 or so guys w >11hp bikes out there really ripping it up, that would be something to really get sponsors psyched about it. But if we can just push the limits of <11hp bikes to some really exciting speeds, that would be pretty cool too. Maybe I can get Danny Eslick to come out and ride one of the bikes. See how far he can get the bike backed in on the Grange corners. He is incredible to watch on a supermoto there. This is a quick vid of him "playing" at the Long Beach supermoto.

Maybe you should talk to the race promoter before you make all these plans?
You have my phone #

 

[Jay64]

If you build a 4 stroke over 11.99 hp I will put you in the Unlimited Class
which means that you don't get to race in the Ultimate race or the 11 hp class.

Yes, I understood that rule each time is was stated, whether it was the multiple times on the forum, or in our phone conversation. I completely understand that anything ovre 11hp will be in the unlimited class. If everyone that is running a bike that is over 11hp is put into the unlimited class, I have absolutely no problem with that. As long as we are measuring everyones motors the same way, that is great. Actually, I have no problem running in the unlimited class. I consider that the big boy class anyways. I was even trying to ask you during our phone conversation if I could run my <11hp bike in the unlimited class, assuming I could run comparable lap times with the other bikes. Unfortunately you wouldn't let me finish my questions, so I never got an answer. But thankfully this is a forum and my thread, so I can ask as many questions as I like and be able to finish my sentences. Like I have mentioned to you before, I am a professional racer and have been racing professionally for 9 years. I understand rules, and I understand class structures. You really don't need to keep saying them to me over again.

 

[Jay64]

I don't have an EV sponsor yet. I do have a few ICE sponsors, gotta see which ones will be willing to come over to the dark side with me. :lol: :lol: Actually, October is the month for getting all ICE sponsorships finalized for 2012, so I might see if I can roll both of them into one package! :lol: Maybe I should bring some of my guys up to the Grange race and get them excited about it. I would love to be able to put a team of ES riders together, but that would increase the sponsorship budget by a lot. I don't even know if I can get sponsors for the EV racing yet, and if I do, I need to make sure that I can get enough for my racing. If I can haggle the sponsors to give more for a bigger team, I will definately bring you guys on board. I personally would like to see the unlimited race be the top race. If we could get 5 or so guys w >11hp bikes out there really ripping it up, that would be something to really get sponsors psyched about it. But if we can just push the limits of <11hp bikes to some really exciting speeds, that would be pretty cool too. Maybe I can get Danny Eslick to come out and ride one of the bikes. See how far he can get the bike backed in on the Grange corners. He is incredible to watch on a supermoto there. This is a quick vid of him "playing" at the Long Beach supermoto.

Maybe you should talk to the race promoter before you make all these plans?
You have my phone #

Um, which plans are you refering to? Do I need to check with you to bring sponsors on board to help my racing efforts? Or do I have to check with you before I can create a team of like minded riders and use that team power to bring in more sponsorship support? Or do I have to check with you to have a group of guys run in the unlimited class together? It didn't sound like we had to check with you to run in that class, we just had to bring bikes that were over 11hp and we would be put in that class. Or did we have to check with you to have a really execiting race that the fans would love to watch? Or did we have to check with you on each rider that can enter the event? Are certain riders not allowed to enter your event?

 

[Jay64]

Oh, I originally read that with my phone and didn't see the two that you put in bold. You can call which ever class you want as the "top class". I really don't mind that in any way. But I do know race fans, and the big boy class is going to be the most loved class by fans every time. Even if you call the other class the main class, in their minds the unlimited class is going to be the best class. That is just how it is. That is what I was talking about. I could care less what you call it, if me, Etard, Thud, Liveforphysics, Farfle, and a couple of gassers that charge, make a bad ass race of the unlimited class, it is going to be considered the top race by the fans.

Why on earth do I have to check with the promotor to have a rider sign up? Danny Eslick is a very close personal friend of mine. We were on the same team together racing side by side for many years. Do you have a problem with this specific rider? Are you going to tell riders that know how to actually ride that they can't come to your event because they can ride a <11hp bike faster than guys on 20hp bikes? When I talked to you on the phone, you implied that I wasn't a good enough rider to ride Manic Mechanics bike for them, and now you are saying that my teammate, who I raced side by side with is too good of a rider to even enter your event? This is kind of getting rediculous.

ANYWAYS, back to my build for whatever I decide to use it for...........

 

[Jay64]

I contacted http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/218353A.html and asked them if this unit could be manipulated with the weights and springs to bring the engagement point from 2200 rpm to 800 rpm. They responded saying that the adjustment only goes down to 1400rpm's.

 

[Jay64]

I contacted http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/218353A.html and asked them if this unit could be manipulated with the weights and springs to bring the engagement point from 2200 rpm to 800 rpm. They responded saying that the adjustment only goes down to 1400rpm's.

 

[Thud]

Jay,
That # is prolly all they can do with stock parts.
You prolly know a guy who could fab up modified parts to get it to do whatever you want...time is the bigger issue.

I have a Hilliard Kart clucth i was going to play with on the ellectricmotors....but I re-pourposed it to a 50cc 2 stroke engine befor i got that far.

 

[Jay64]

That is what I was thinking. The way they worded it, sounds like it can be adjusted to that, sounded like no modifications were needed to get there. I haven't worked with CVTs before, so I wasn't sure how much could be done as modifications and how much of that was just with adjustments. Thanks for the input. I don't know if I have time to do everything that I want before the one particular race in Cali. However, regardless of that event, I want to build what I think is cool. I have really been interested in working with something like this for a long time, and this might be the perfect opportunity to experiment with one.

 

[Jay64]

Actually talked to their parts tech guy on the phone. He said that the engagement can be lowered farther if modified and not adjusted. That's good to know. Might look into getting one.

I was looking up some 20" suspension forks and found some that stated they had no steerer. Anyone got some info on how to add a steerer, or even where to get one? Can I just press one out of an old set of forks?

 

[Thud]

If ts 20" its prolly RST cappa's?

Niagracycle works lists them like this:

the fork:
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=502218

the stear'r tube: (you have a lot of options)
http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=402_105_262_908&sort=2a&filter_id=705&sort=2a

I am pretty sure these are held in the lowers with a light press & clamp set up.
I been looking at the 24" units for a light street motorcycle build..

 

[Jay64]

Yes, those were the exact ones I was looking at, but from a different supplier. The other site I found was cheaper, but they didn't quite have as much info. They didn't state that I could use a 1" OR a 1 1/8" steerer. I was trying to figure out if I could use them or not but couldn't find the steerer size. I was kind of figuring that I might be able to put in different sized steerers, but I couldn't tell for sure based on their limited specs and descriptions. Thanks for clearing that up Thud.

So, just for more claification, is it true that can can run either a threaded or threadless on any frame as long as I get the right headset?

 

[Thud]

The seller should have a mounting "kit" for the forks Jay, I would guess (hope) an e-mail to the vendor would prolly clear it up quick.

Of course diferent head tube diameters will accept different bearing sets for the steerer tube. So if you have a favorite head set, you can base all your adaptations to that.

Most of the 1-1/8th inch head sets press into a 1.377 id head tube. (thats a ream fit to 1.375 id tube in the alloy of your choice)
I have been tempted to buy a threaded steerer tube & see if fits the 1" threaded standard on the BSO's (bicycle shaped objects) sold at the big box stores

 

[Jay64]

I'm looking at possibly rebuilding the POS mongoose bike that I have sitting in my sideyard. I figure if I just strip the whole bike down to the frame and upgrade all the parts, it should be a pretty good bike. It has full suspension on it, but I want to put disk brakes on the front, so I would need to change the forks. And hopefully those 20" RST cappa's have a little better internals than the stock ones. Thinking about changing out the shock for a better quality, but also go with a little more length to offset going with 20" wheels. Looking to see what it will take to do a slight extension on the frame, but being a MTB instead of a BMX, not sure how much stregnth it will have for the extension. It doesn't look like I can do that same solid type extension that you did.

 

[Thud]

some stuff to look at & plagerise.

I like what these guys are doing:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30490

& Farfle will be racing us with this one:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=31395

This stuff is quick to fab & if you have a decent fox air shock you can get it dialed in pretty quickly.

 

[Jay64]

Actually, I didn't even think about rebuilding it all the way up to the pivot. I think that would be a little beefier. I gotta talk to some guys here and see what they can do.

 

[Jay64]

Oh yeah, what width rim would be required to run the Pirelli ML75s?

Sorry about all the noob bicycle questions.

 

[Thud]

They'l fit most 20" rims for bmx...
I am running the Alex DM24 rims at 32mm wide.
(not cause I think their best....they just keep showing up on e-bay for $20 LOL)

 

[Jay64]

Yeah, I found some 32mm too. I just wasn't sure if they were wide enough. I thought I had heard they needed to be 1.75" wide or something like that. Once again, thanks for all the time you spent answering my questions.

 

[drewjet]

Jay sorry to hijack your thread, but... for a custom build, for a 1 1/8 head set all I need is a tube with a 1.377 ID and then a set of these http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=601537?

 

[Jay64]

Drewjet, no hijack at all. That type of info that I want on this thread. The only thing is that I don't know size is the frame I'm planning on using. I read that you have to measure the i.d. of the head tube, but the bike is still assembled. I was just trying to do some preplanning and see if those forks would work on either size frame that it might be.

 

[AussieJester]

99% certain way to tell if it's a 1 1/8 head tube without measuring Jay is, if it has a clamp on style stem, it's a 1 1/8 headtube, if it has the older style what we used to call 'goosenecks' on the bikes we rode as kids, then its a 1inch headset. Obviously the former is what you need if you wish to for a decent fork, you cannot put a 1 1/8 fork on a 1inch headtube, doesn't work, no adapters etc available simply doesn't fit. Hope this helps

Be good for ThudSTeR to finally have a suitably experienced foe to race with sorry though Jay, i'm Team Thud loyalist so I must cheer for the ol boi, he only has a few years of good racing left in the ol back. LoL

 

[Jay64]

Be good for ThudSTeR to finally have a suitably experienced foe to race with sorry though Jay, i'm Team Thud loyalist so I must cheer for the ol boi, he only has a few years of good racing left in the ol back. LoL

That's ok, I'm cheering for Thud too.

I need to make sure I can build a bike that can at least get in in the game to run with these boys.

 

[Jay64]

Looks like I am going to be picking up a 24 fet controller from Lyen. I am also going to get some of the Pirelli ML 75 2.5" tires, so I need to figure out how I'm gonna do the 20" rims. Still haven't decided which frame I'm gonna go with yet. Gonna go and try to talk to the guys at Manic Mechanic to see what they can do with extending the swingarm for the two frame choices I got. That will proabably be the deciding factor on which frame I use.