Ebike road race bike: Questions and build info

[Jay64]

Ok, working on getting some disk brakes now. Thanks Drewjet! Need to see about adapting a mount for the rear. I will try my hand on fabricating some up like what Kim has pictured above. I'll practice on the crappy mongoos frame first. :lol:

 

[AussieJester]

No worries at all Jay glad I could shine some light on the brake setup for n you.
The bolts used were indeed longer, when I remembered to put them all in AND tighten them, first group ride, the 3 bolts I had holding rotor and sprocket on when I originally mocked up the bike months earlier yup, they came loose, been riding the bike a week just had to break down when everyone including Hyena was there haha...

KiM

 

[Jay64]

Kim, ain't that how it is sometimes? I had my bike break down when going on a ride with Tostino. Aggrevation of a break down, coupled by the embarrasement of having it happen in front of people.

Last night I also ordered up a 203mm front floating rotor and a hydraulic front caliper set. I will use the cable caliper that I got from Drewjet on the rear of the bike. Drewjet is also sending me a 20" front wheel set with disk brake mount, and a rear hub that I can do a left hand freewheel. Not sure if I am going to be going this route, but I am going to be testing some different setups and it is good to have this option if I decide to go that way. The Pirelli tires should be here on Thur, the same day the stuff from Drewjet is supposed to arrive. So I should be able to get the front end set up and see how it works out.

 

[Jay64]

I was outside just now working on three different bikes. Trying to build one of them into a running ebike, but also looking at possibilities between them for the race ebike. Up walks the post man with a big white box. Hmm, I just sent out an email today asking about ETAs on the different parts that were ordered. Wonder which one this could be? It was the LYEN 24 fet controller! 8) 8) I was pretty shocked to already have that in my hands. Mr. LYEN you are definately a class act vendor. Every step of my dealing with you has been great so far.

Man, this thing is beefy. I can run a 9 continent hub motor with this can't I???? These phase wires are a lot beefier than the contorllers I currently have. I'm assuming that guys normally run anderson type connectors with these wires. They are quite a bit bigger than the phase wires coming out of the 9 continent hub motors that I have. Anyone got a suggestion for how to connect these bigass wires to the skimpy ones? I'm only wanting to do this for testing purposes. I know it isn't an ideal use of this massive controller.

Unfortunately, now I have to go install hall sensors in my turnigy and baby colossus motors to be able to test with those. Got a lot more reading to do now to get that figured out. I ended up ordering a few of the accessories with it too. I ended up going with:
Cycle Analyst connector, external USB-TTL connector for USB-TTL programming adapter, regenerative braking enable/disable jumper $10
USB-TTL programming adapter $15
Three speed switch $15

I don't think I will use the 3 speed switch for the race, but I thought it would be good to have for when I let different people ride it. Have a legal limit switch to keep the speeds waaay down for someone very new to ebike riding. I've seen two people crash my mild builds already. Have the medium range for people that I really want to have an experience with more power. And have the high range for a very select few who I KNOW can handle the bike at full power. Basically just as a safe guard.


Ok, gotta run back outside and play with my toys!

 

[AussieJester]

I use the 5.5mm gold bullet connectors exclusively
On my bikes Jay, had bad experience with Anderson connectors, they are also ridiculously large for use on a bicycle, sort of stick out like dogs balls, not as big an issue on a race bike granted but you might fine cramming in the wiring a lil more difficult with them?

KiM

 

[Jay64]

Hmm, I'm having major issues with posting replys on ES today, it keeps crashing on me. I'm trying to do a pic with this update, but it definately isn't working right now, so I'll try without it.

I just got another package of parts today. Drewjet just sent me out a 20" front rim with disk brake hub, what looks to be about 160mm rotor, a cable actuated brake caliper, and a currie hub. I'm not entirely sure that I will be using that currie hub for a dual rear freewheel or not. But We figured I should get it now just to have, "in case." :lol: Thanks a ton Drewjet! I'm definately bringing this bike by your house when I get it done and give you a go at it.
edit: I'm going to try to affix the smaller rotor and the cable caliper to the rear of the bicycle, I have a 203mm and hydraulic on order for the front.

Supposedly the Pirelli tires should be arriving today too, so hopefully I can get those mounted to the front rim and then I can start mocking that up to a few different frames and start seeing how that changes things.

Hey, does anyone know if those Pirelli ML75 tires use tubes or not? I totally forgot to check that when I ordered them. I'm not used to worrying about tubes with my motorcycle stuff. I guess if I'm using them on bicycle rims I will need to use a tube.

 

[drewjet]

Glad you got it all Jay. Yes you need tubes for those Pirelli's.

 

[Jay64]

*gigiddy*

 

[Jay64]

Got a new rim today, getting that laced up, hopefully it will be done tomorrow.

For those of you who have done a few of these races, what size battery pack should I run? For the batts that I have, and I have decided to use, I have a few options. I have two packs, both at 80v20ah-22cells 20ah ea. I was thinking of possibly running all out with both packs in parallel, giving me 80v40ah. The reason I would like to possibly do this, is the cells have a relatively low C rating, 5 C continuous and 10C peak. I'm just not sure how much these motors are going to draw driving hard out of corners. I suppose that the 20ah pack should be decent, 200 amp bursts. I don't even know if the motor or controller can take that kind of burst. The reason that I would opt to not run both packs is bulk. Even one pack won't fit in the triangle of either frame I've got. I'm thiniking of mounting one pack on top of the top tube, almost like a regular gas tank would sit. If I use both packs, I probably will have to some how hang them off either side of the top tube. Almost like saddle bags, or a Harley dual gas tank. I kind of like that idea. But I also don't want to carry unnecessary weight if the 20ah will last me the 12 or so miles of the race. Another benefit of running only one at a time, is that I can swap out packs relatively quickly and throw in a fresh pack to use while the other one charges. The packs are modular and seem really easy to add or subtract. If I don't go for the double pack, and I don't plan on swapping the packs, I can actually very easily add a few more cells to one pack to get it closer to 100v. But, then I would have to get another charger, that's something to think about too I guess.

 

[Jay64]

Dang, I was gonna see if I could just run the 20" rims in the 26" rock shock forks that I got since they have disk brake mounts. I know that the geometry wouldn't be quite the same, but I wanted to test it and see how it was. Maybe it would suit my riding style better. But unfortunately, with these fat Pirelli tires, they won't clear the rim brake mounts. The fatest part of the tire comes in just where those mounts are. I could cut them off, but I would hate to bastardize some decent forks and turns out they aren't going to work for this application anyways. So I need to order the 20" forks. I guess this is where I really have to decide which frame I'm going with since one is a 1" and the other is the 1 1/8". If I go with the crappy wallmart frame, I will have no second thoughts of welding tabs and mounts to it. But it has rear suspension, I will have to upgrade the shock for sure, and I don't know if the xtracycle extension will work with the suspension frame. That is supposed to come in tomorrow, so I guess I can find out then. If I go with the tidal force frame, it is brand new, never been put together yet (beautiful paint job). So I would honestly be more hesitant to weld onto it. I know, I know, a race bike is meant to be beat up and thrown down the road if it means winning, but still. My welding would definately fuglify it. :lol: But it also has built in rear disk brake mounts, so if I decide to go without the extension, I wouldn't have to build in brake mounts. If I do go with the extension, they are built in to that, so any frame I put it on will be set for rear disk mount. Man, just when I think I have things figured out... :lol:

 

[Jay64]

Thanks for Thud! Ok, if I go with the Tidal Force frame, NO WELDING! :lol: So, welding with the wally bike, or clamps with the TF? Hmmmmm.

 

[RallySTX]

Good luck man.
Brian L.

 

[Jay64]

Rally, thanks. I need as much as I can get! :lol: :lol:

 

[RallySTX]

You're welcome, looks to me like you're in good company, except for the guy with the race track avatar. I woulda thought I would answer questions posed online, if I had made my presence felt there, but hey I'm just a midwestern farm boy on his own. If I had the green, I woulda brought my OCC bike with a 9C 5x12 pushin 88v at 30 amps. From what I read here, it looks like I would just get in the way! Woulda been fun anyway. My dad used to announce at race tracks when I was a kid. They call it Mississippi Thunder now, but it will always be The Fountain City Trioval Speedway to me.
Best wishes.
Brian L.

 

[Jay64]

You're welcome, looks to me like you're in good company, except for the guy with the race track avatar. I woulda thought I would answer questions posed online, if I had made my presence felt there, but hey I'm just a midwestern farm boy on his own.

You would think, huh? :lol: Actually, lately, I haven't had any of my questions directly answered even in his thread about his own event. I guess I wasn't PC enough for someone who had so much tact. Oh, well. I just want to be part of any event that promotes electric vehicles. And I love racing, can't get enough of it. I will race anything, even if it is the push shopping carts at the grocery store with my buds. :lol:

If I had the green, I woulda brought my OCC bike with a 9C 5x12 pushin 88v at 30 amps. From what I read here, it looks like I would just get in the way! Woulda been fun anyway.

I don't think ya would be in the way. You might not be fighting for the top of the podium, but I can't see how you would be in the way. I have been a pro racer (ICE) for many years now and it always cracks me up when riders say how the other guy was too slow and in the way. If he was THAT much slower than you, you should have no problem just going around. If you can't easily go around, then he wasn't THAT much slower than you. Either that or you don't have enough skills to put your bike where you need it to be when going that fast, in which case you are riding over your head and you really aren't that fast. :lol: :lol: If you were more along my route, I would offer to take you out there with me, but it looks like you are way up North, up by Thud.

 

[Jay64]

Ok, the xtracycle extension just showed up. This thing seems fairly stout. Not as stout as farfle's swingarm, but just about as stout as anything else I've seen stock. Grindz, why wouldn't you recommend this for racing? Have there been major failures at high speed or do you think it can't take the torque? Again, the stock locations of the rim brake mounts interfere with the 20" Pirelli tire. I'm more apt to cut them off the xtracycle than off the tidal force frame though.

 

[Thud]

The only issue I have with the Extracycle extensions are the U-bolts they use to attatch the thing with...these are really horible for tubing clamps...they create a lousy stress point on contact & they will get loose as the frame flexes...

if you can fab some proper clamps that won't put a knife edge on the mounting points...I think you'll be fine.
I'll show this tiny ones as a referance point...the little red clamps there are 3/8"t drilled to the tube diameter, then drilled for tap size of the clamping screws. then cut in 1/2 with a hacksaw...then filed to look pretty & anodised for the bling factor.

think of it as a fancy handle bar clamp...I awaite grindz145's assesment.

edit: (maybe it was grindz who added the U-bolts to his bike...I looked it over in Detroit, but the details are a little fuzzy from time)

 

[Jay64]

It doesn't appear that the xtracycle uses ubolts. There is the one piece that goes straight forward and bolts to the kickstand plate. The two rear bolts go through the upright bar of the extension and bolt into the dropouts of the main frame.

I was thinking of possibly using u-bolts for mounting the motor plate and some of the battery support. So you recommend against doing this?

 

[Thud]

call me prejudice, I HATE U-BOLTS! (even the ones specificly designed just for holding leaf springs to an axel!)
i am pretty certian the u-bolts in my mind were something Troy added to his build.....

in a pinch (hehe I love puns) they may work-for battery box hanging
(but i would steer you toward hose clamps befor u-bolts)
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-T-Bolt-Hose-Clamps/744065/10002/-1

these are big good strong & won't damage sensitive structural tubing. epecialy under stress (like i know you will be delivering on the track)

Jay, I have a clamp on motor mount here I prolly won't use...if you think it may work for you I'll let you have it.

The bolt pattern is the same on the collosus as the turnigy's so either will fit....tell me a tube size & i will make certain it fits.
Check out a trial's bike stering stem for a bolt on Jackshaft option to get your gearing right...Gwhy had some pitures in a thread in the photo's section on a bike he put together for a son in law....can't seem to find it
(spinning magnets to the rescue!)
it will accept 1.125"x .5"id bearings & clamp onto a seat tube...than all you need is a shaft & some sprockets to get you moving..
tic-tock tic-tock

 

[Jay64]

Thud, I would love to buy that motor mount off you. But I guess I need to decide which friggin frame I'm going with before I can tell you what size tube! :lol: :lol: :lol: I will measure both frames and see if there are any similarities there. Maybe if I go with the larger size tube, I can shim if for the smaller one if I change my mind once again. :lol:

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

You would think, huh? :lol: Actually, lately, I haven't had any of my questions directly answered even in his thread about his own event. I guess I wasn't PC enough for someone who had so much tact. .

If you want questions answered call me at 7 1 4 - 3 4 1-7 9 9 8
9am to 9pm PST
thanks

 

[Jay64]

The questions I have been asking are in regards to the event rules. If they can't be answered in an open forum with complete transparency, then I guess they don't impact the rules of the event. When I'm at a race, I am always striving to win. At this point, I'm not striving to win, this is just a "ride" now. I really just want to twist a throttle and ride, that's it. I don't really care about the trivial stuff any more. Put me in which ever clas you want, give me which ever number you want, just point me to turn 1 and I'll pin the throttle till I see black and white.

 

[Jay64]

Maybe someone else can call and see if the registration for this event will be posted on our site or not. I don't feel like making a phone call for that question. :lol:

 

[Jay64]

except for the guy with the race track avatar. I woulda thought I would answer questions posed online, if I had made my presence felt there, but hey I'm just a midwestern farm boy on his own. Brian L.

I guess I owe you a big thank you. After our little discussion on this topic in my thread, he finally answered my questions in his thread. I honestly had gotten to the point that I didn't care what his answers were, I was just gonna show up and ride. The funny thing is that I have called him, and he rambled at me for about 3 hours and never let me finish any of my questions for him to even begin to answer them. :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=31157&view=unread#unread

So anyways, thanks for voiceing your oppinion on this.

Jay

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

Anything else you want answered?