EEStor ultracapacitor

[Link]

*strokes semi-imaginary beard*

Hmm...

 

[Lock]

Honest. The site looks like it's only been up a couple of weeks. Not sure who is helming but it seems to have some serious minds on board. PPl interested in the tech more than possible profit. I know there are ES ppl that can relate to some of the dialogue there. I can't pretend to!
tks
Lock

 

[Link]

Not sure who is helming but it seems to have some serious minds on board.

I'll say. I can only just keep up with what they're saying, and certainly wouldn't have much to contribute. Not often I come across something that technical without looking for it. :wink:

 

[Mathurin]

Saw on the news today Montreal got some zenn's for park maintenance. They have a huge "slow vehicle" triangle painted on the back.

Also a few weeks ago I caught a car review in the newspaper where they tested it, apparently it's complete rubbish. Noisy, uncomfortable, handles like a pig.

 

[swbluto]

What I want to see is a reasonably priced e-bike "battery" that charges in 5 minutes and is 10 times lighter than SLA batteries.

Who knows, it might happen. Might not.

That'd be nice.

Let's see. A 1 KWH battery could charge up in 5 minutes with 12KW of power. For perspective, At 120 V average, that's only 100 amps average.

So it doesn't sound electrically difficult.

 

[swbluto]

If I can charge it at home as well, although much slower, then I am interested. If it requires some sort of infrastructure to charge, then it will fail.

It'll take a special charger, which will probably be expensive. But it could be technically done without a significant change in the infrastructure, it's just that these special chargers will probably have to store charge in one form for these Car Capacitors to charge in 5 minutes(or some comparatively quick time) which will be the "expensive" part(I.e., using a bank of ultracapacitors to slowly charge which then can be zapped into the car at a moment's notice). This will probably be offloaded onto charging stations due to the initial investment, but I imagine the public could afford their own chargers if they're willing to accept a slower rate of charge(Like an hour. Or maybe 3.) at home.

 

[Doctorbass]

http://www.lightevs.com/
http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/30/eestor-rides-again-this-time-on-a-bike/

Hummm! 750Wh/liter !! .. cheaper than lithium.. charge faster... is it true!?

Doc

 

[Link]

5lbs = 1kWh = Flippin' sweet...

Definitely going to be one of the early adopters of this thing.

 

[swbluto]

Eestor's progress is being actively followed at the website http://www.theeestory.com . So far, it seems the company has a history of continually pushing back deadlines and releasing "official reports" every 3 months or so(with the last one being around a month ago, I think). So far, the latest official development seems to be that they've found that the barium titanate(Or whatever chemical it was) for the dielectric layer has been filtered to the required amount of hypothetically needed purity percentage(last percentage being 99.997% or something like that). Past that, it doesn't seem like it's progressed very far beyond an idea.

But, if it actualizes, the world will be revolutionized, no doubt about that.

I'm not banking on it, but I'd be really glad if something eventually materializes.

 

[MitchJi]

So far, the latest official development seems to be that they've found that the barium titanate(Or whatever chemical it was) for the dielectric layer has been filtered to the required amount of hypothetically needed purity percentage(last percentage being 99.997% or something like that). Past that, it doesn't seem like it's progressed very far beyond an idea.

Hi,

Thats a critical piece of the puzzle.

I'm sure Lockheed and Kleiner Perkins did extensive due diligence before investing so its not impossible.

On the other hand it is still vaporware.

I made a small investment in Zenn Motors because I think its worth a shot.

 

[paultrafalgar]

FWIW:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/eestor-announces-certification-additional-key/story.aspx?guid=%7BAB6D95CC-0C6B-4734-83CB-990B4451270C%7D&dist=hppr

 

[safe]

I like the idea of using EEStor in a smaller (less threatening) situation like an ebike. For the small energy needs we have it should be possible to build one with enough of a "containment field" to be able to withstand the smaller forces bicycles experience in accidents. Even if you get hit by a car the light weight that ebikes typically carry means that they would tend to "bounce" off of a car rather than carry all the vehicles momentum with it.

This would make for some great sprint style racing where maybe the ebike goes out for about 10 laps, comes into the pits and gets a quick recharge, then charges out again for more. You could actually get a decent 200 mile race where the speeds would be in the 40-50 mph range most of the time.

For motorcycles this is even better... you would no longer worry about needing a big battery for the whole race and could also go a few laps then recharge.

It also makes the idea of "charge stations" rather than "gas stations" a reality.

And it doesn't wear out.

I hope it continues to advance and improve... patience is the key...

After all, the economy sucks so we have plenty of time to develop new stuff now. There really is no hurry because there is no money to fund startup companies (no credit) so you would need to build your product and business slowly like in the old days.

 

[andys]

I am actually glad for once the military has great interest in the EEstor technology, because it may mean they actually bring it to market if the end product does get finalized and tested and works as the theory describes. Otherwise, history is full of EEstor examples that got bought out and shelved by those who would stand to lose the most from its presence on the market. Guess who that might be in this case?

 

[swbluto]

I am actually glad for once the military has great interest in the EEstor technology, because it may mean they actually bring it to market if the end product does get finalized and tested and works as the theory describes. Otherwise, history is full of EEstor examples that got bought out and shelved by those who would stand to lose the most from its presence on the market. Guess who that might be in this case?

ummmm... ummmm.... ummmmmm

Do you really think if the military adopted this technology that it could actually be with-held from the public? There'd be a public outcry if the military was using it and then the technology was yanked due to the intellectual property being purchased. The only exception I can see is if the military has an "exclusivity" agreement which it appears they don't have. And, even so, they can only monopolize the technology for... what... 20-25 years before the patent expires? You know there's going to be chinese vendors regardless of patent law, as well. :wink:

Also, you have to ask, IF eestor actually is developing a real product and they do develop, do the investors of this have more to gain from an oil-industry based buyout(They only have upto... what... 700 billion dollars to offer, at theoretical max? Probably closer to 100 billion or less from practical point of view) or taking over the entire energy-storage industry, or a quite sizable fraction, and reaping at least hundreds of billions of dollars per year?

 

[cerewa]

Let's see. A 1 KWH battery could charge up in 5 minutes with 12KW of power. For perspective, At 120 V average, that's only 100 amps average.

So it doesn't sound electrically difficult.

In terms of current infrastructure, this is questionable. I think the houses in the USA that have 240V hookups (for electric washers/dryers and such) can handle 50 amps / 12000 watts, but don't use your dryer or A/C at the same time! I'm not sure if residential connections (between house and neighborhood-wires) can handle 100 amps.

Now, if you were trying to charge a 10kwh battery in 5 minutes (that's about what you'd need for a car to go 250 miles) you need over 100kw of power, which is far beyond the ability of a house's electrical system.

 

[PaulM]

I'm not sure if residential connections (between house and neighborhood-wires) can handle 100 amps.

Minimum service size here is 60 amp, but I'm not sure if you could still build a new house like that, or if it just applies to existing ones. Most houses have at least a 100 amp service, many have a larger one (the house I'm currently renting has a 200 amp service). Of course, even if your house has a 100 amp service, good luck getting a permit for a 100 amp hookup!!!

 

[swbluto]

I was thinking that if a "electrical pipeline" of such current couldn't be physically realized, then people would need an "electrical tank" to store the charge for them when they want that "5 minute" charge. I.e., carry another supercapacitor, or a few, to accumulate charge at more reasonable rates throughout the day. But that'd increase the upfront costs of an electric conversion, which might not be worth it. Well, darnn, are Americans ever willing to make compromises en masse?

 

[paultrafalgar]

The answer is a smaller, lighter vehicle, like an ebike, then you can charge it with a normal outlet, but EEStor isn't applying it's technology to that.

 

[OneEye]

The answer is a smaller, lighter vehicle, like an ebike, then you can charge it with a normal outlet, but EEStor isn't applying it's technology to that.

Hypothetically they are. Their latest victim >er, investor/licencee< is a light electric vehicle company planning to produce 2-wheel and 3-wheel electric vehicles. I think someone posted it here a couple of weeks ago.

Found it: EEStor Rides Again, This Time on a Bike!

 

[andys]

The potential military uses of their technology in submarines, etc. is where most of the stuff will go if they actually bring it to fruition. That is why Lockheed Martin already dumped millions into the company and has exclusive rights to military uses. In one way, its typical that the best technology goes into the business of destruction. Less chance the company will be bought out by Exxon and burned to the ground because of this though.

I expect their may well be some extreme breakthroughs in energy storage in the very near future. There already has to some point already. There was nothing like the LIFEPO4 batteries I have in my scooter and bike (and want to get for a small car) on the market even a couple of years ago.

 

[marks]

EEStor have been awarded a patent which allows batteries (or energy storage) in much smaller weights and also a cheaper price than the current favourite L-Ion

News article here:
http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/2405/80/

Links to the patent here:
http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat7466536.pdf (Table 1 on page 7 of the PDF shows the capacity/weight comparisons. )

It seems that EEStor have been "coming soon" for quite a while so here's hoping this is real progress!

 

[NickF23]

Not beleiving in Eestor could ruin your life see:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SEX_NrnRYu4

also see http://theeestory.com/posts/14393 for the case against Eestor

 

[Lock]

http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/01/gm-admits-to-a-working-relationship-with-eestor/
Nothing to see here folks. Move along...
Just more GM and EEStor blah blah blah Not sure who is better at this...

 

[methods]

She put me off
But the "batteries" put me on so its a wash.

Had not heard of that company.
Sounds interesting.

I watched an entire summer of seminars on "Emerging Memory Technology" at Stanford and the kind of stuff that is around the corner will knock your socks off. I think this sort of exponential growth is coming from every direction (except maybe GM of course ).

-methods

 

[Lock]

Had not heard of that company.

Hi methods. Search Endless Sphere for EEStor and you'll find lots of info... A lot of ppl are suspicious of their tech. Possible in theory but a real trick to pull off as a viable storage unit consumer item... Some promised deadlines missed too.
tks
Lock