EEStor ultracapacitor

I don't see how it is a scam though... you and I have never been able to buy their stock or invest in them. Some large venture capitalists have, it may have caused Zenn to self destruct in it's hopes this would pan out faster, and a major military company also dropped some coin. The company hasn't ever been popping out the standard "We expect product to ship next quarter.. buy buy buy!"
I hope it turns out to work and they flood the market with a revolutionary product... if not, no skin off my back.
 
redorblack said:
I don't see how it is a scam though... you and I have never been able to buy their stock or invest in them. Some large venture capitalists have, it may have caused Zenn to self destruct in it's hopes this would pan out faster, and a major military company also dropped some coin. The company hasn't ever been popping out the standard "We expect product to ship next quarter.. buy buy buy!"
I hope it turns out to work and they flood the market with a revolutionary product... if not, no skin off my back.

Evidently you are misinformed, NO major military company has dropped some coin in EESTOR. No major or minor military company has dropped a penny in EESTOR.

You must believe there is nothing wrong with submitting fraudulent data in a patent to USPTO.

True you cannot purchase stock in EESTOR, but you can purchase Zenn which has 10.7% interest in EESTOR. There is a well orchestrated campaign of Zenn stock holders on the internet led by a blogger with a bag on his head who have been apologist and enabler of EESTOr's lies the last 5 years in order to pump Zenn stock. The following best explains EESTOR Zenn connection:

"In the words of EEStor skeptic, frequent commenter and fabled gadfly, Steve Pluvia, "EEStor is nothing more than a vehicle for a Canadian pump-n-dump, specifically Zenn Motors. Zenn has a powerful Canadian hype team supported by a crooked bucket shop (Paradigm Capital), paid promoters and degenerate gamblers. Experts in the field of EEStor’s technology do not believe the claims in their product... The trade here is to short Zenn on all pops from here forward.""
 
@ J CR. Not at all. I never told anyone to invest into eestor, and its hilarious to find out people cant, Research any? Or just another attack drone?

Open discussion is going fine, I am an optimist and some not so. But blocking peoples ears to news, evidence, or what may transpire from this is ignorant, and that is not my flaw here.

Maybe Zenn got suckered, again, they've made some very good products and at least may have some insight we do not have available. I read it as Zenn requires eestor to allow a little more information out so they dont die in the mean time. EEstor have signed them out of making the press anouncements..

Either way the materials EEstor have suceeded in creating will come to good use regardless of whether they get the Ucap working.

However. I must agree that some did make promises of a functional comercial device earlier than they should have. This was IMO dishonest to get investments. Excitment, people like myself betting on an ultracap making some advancments and beating the battery is not uncommon. It took me a little while how to translate farads into AH and watts, but we are not trying to propagate scams.

However.

Most scammers would of disapeared by now and go missing, prolly to Brazil, and every idiot blame the oil companies wanting to murder the opposition. This maybe so, but I think Dick Weir isnt going to get away with anything if he is lying. I give him some credit by sticking with this.

Some balance discussion cool by me, but dont shoot the messenger.

BTW Zenn have stopped making the cars, and what they do to their sharholders, waiting on eestore to give up the goose is neither EEstors or my fault.

EEstor have tried to remain pretty quite on many fronts, people even stalk the executives just to give up a little information, I dont think my enthusiasm in this is a crime. TheEEstory.com allows too much negativity on their site to allow any hype to gain any decent investment to pass and should of just dissapeared into nothingness by now.

The only reason I feel close to this is because I used to debate with my electronics teacher about using caps for a batteries 28 years ago and said thay should do more researchg. I built torches on Ucaps before I even knew about EEstro. Some skin in spirit.

If this comes good, and they improve on it with nano carbon ontop, people who were steeered away will not be happy. Even real things that do work still fail to get off the ground too and people can lose money not because some technology is a scam, maybe because someone funnels the cash to offshire accounts and does a runner.. Its just hard to tell.
 
@ Luke.

I thinks its a little more complicate than adding a few more layers of garbage bags. Increasing the electrode gap reduces farad capacity significantly, Simillar to adding caps in series. The concept is to get the electrodes as ciose as you can without breaking the electrode divider in between.

I think what people fail to understand farad is a direct relation to voltage, the higher the volts the more farad. The material between the electrodes must be so close but not break down. Also if the electrode is flat like foil satiuration of the primary level of the electrode where the most energy is stored is going to occure, even merely increasing surface area isnt going to achieve huge improvements. These old concepts are 2D or only verging into 3D slightly. I Think a vertical structure of each electrode into one another will increase both surface area, and use of the entire layer.

One does not series capacitors to incease its potential to hold energy. These caps are square, I think what the are trying to do is a grid of layers joined along its base the ho right into each others electrodes.

In my picture, below I wish it could be 3D, but you could imagine that you could just roll some foil with garbage bags in between, well maybe you could install a trillion transistors on 20nm die with a 40 watt soldering iron too. Good luck with the dIY. These are being buit sorta like computer chips where a physical process would break such fine layers. Imagine a normal cap instead of foil rolled into a few hundred circles , you can fit 6666666 20nm compelte layers (2 electrodes and insulator.) in 0.787402 of an inch. Thats just a fast figure, please dont quote me. But some really have not looked into solid state capacitor research to comment imo.



Infact google solid state capacitor and see what you find. Not much I bet, LOL.


I ran into the same arguments when I suggested solid state hardives for PC's using memory in the day of 486's, All I got back from the so called big techs is blah blah blah and blah. Well thats what it sounded like to me.

If Eestor dont invent it, can we make sure someone else will, and again the US will only have military hardware and offshore oil contracts to feed its people with, in a world getting sick of war ecconomies and polution.

And quiet frankly I dont give a flying fart if zenn of eestor rip people off, thats the nature of western corporations bending over for the other undesirables that build WMDS and can only think this way, I know its possible and just waiting for any one to do this. I

Infact screw EEstor, screw Zenn and their invetors. let china make the millions. Thats where I stand on the patents.

Like the energy potential of high farad high energy caps dont have a military use, and if it was too good, "like" we would be told if it was stolen from consumers. Their are some other concerns this technology could raise, like we could make something nasty from water and find a way to detonate it. But alas comerical units, materials fabrications wont be capable and efficient enough to be storing the voltages to be "that" dangerous, however, none of this technology USA national security utter bullshit concerns are my problem. And will patents matter if a beligerant concept escapes the technologies mainstream usages?
 
The reason why I say solid state, I think they are trying to take the wet stuff out of the eqaution or make wet stuff not wet at all.

Fluid state doesnt exsit in a single layer atomic or molecular structrures. its only a compounds relation between itself that make things fluidic in nature. Like a single molecule of water can not turn into steam and evapourate as it can not relate to its peers around it to do so. So in essence, a liquid behaves as a sold and an electrolyte if molecules are isolated from each other can not be considered a liquid.


Or

The expasion of molecules due to abient temperture, or higher temperatures due to its function, should only appear relevant in as many moles of over a certain threshold depending on its natural density and or its allowed ability to move from one pysical state to another. Confine a material from; impurities, or, interacting with other chemicals that it can bond with with varying energy levels, or expanding and it remain in the same state. If you wish for wet stuff to remain solid at ambient temperatures, it can be done.

There is some Dry ice in CO2 fire extiguishers, but holding one doesnt make your hands freeze off until you allow the gas to rapidly expand.

One can not even turn water into ice if you dont allow it to form its molecular network to expand.

However most if not all fluidic non-water compounds do not shrink when the taken from a sold state, they always expand to a liquid unlike water, Non water materials they can be held in a "sold state" at higher temperatures indefinetly if confined.

I imagine, this is why EEstor must keep the gaps out of the process in order to keep everything where it should be, and not floating about. I even think one could get higher voltages in todays double layer caps if they could increase its infrastuture to stop them from venting crap out everywhere.

http://www.evanscap.com/pdf/MegaCap.pdf

65 farrad @ 14v.

The ESU will soon be at a level on par with current chemical storage systems and the advantges of caps will even make a little extra weight they might carry initially worth it.

The math is simple.

What you can store in a chemical can be stored in a chemical regardless of the method. Bridging the gap with conductors between a chemical reactions to charge and discharge is just semantics. One just need to design a capacitors structure to an atomic level to compete.. Its happening, liike digital achieved a resoultion to make sound storage data adequate, so too will capacitors compete with chemical batteries. Its just a matter of time. Dont care for those who are ney sayers. They know not what they speak of in reality.

Some even store energy perfectly in fly wheels. Magnetic frictionless bearings, flywheel generator inside a vacuum and momentum is a good means to stor energy too.
 
The cap you linked in 5 x 2.8v caps in series, and is about as pathetic of an energy storage device as I've ever seen. It's storing 1.25Wh of energy, you would need nearly 3 of them to equal the energy stored in an off-the-supermarket-shelf NiMH rechargeable AA cell for your TV remote.

I recommend learning how an ultracap/supercap works. It has nothing to do with electrostatic charge storage like a conventional capacitor. It's an electrochemical energy storage almost exactly like a lithium battery, only directly with electrons rather than using lithium as a place-holder.
What they claimed was just making a high-voltage cap, big whoop! A child can make a 20kV cap in 10 minutes with $1 of foil and many layers of waxed paper found in the kitchen. If they had claimed, we made a x thousand volt capacitor with some amount of useful energy density, that would be a whole different claim to make, but they didn't, they just said they made a high voltage cap, and that alone is no sort of accomplishment at all.


Here is a quicky wikipedia excerpt about caps you should read.

In a conventional capacitor, energy is stored by the removal of charge carriers, typically electrons, from one metal plate and depositing them on another. This charge separation creates a potential between the two plates, which can be harnessed in an external circuit. The total energy stored in this fashion increases with both the amount of charge stored and the potential between the plates. The amount of charge stored per unit voltage is essentially a function of the size, the distance, and the material properties of the plates and the material in between the plates (the dielectric), while the potential between the plates is limited by the breakdown field strength of the dielectric. The dielectric controls the capacitor's voltage. Optimizing the material leads to higher energy density for a given size of capacitor.
EDLCs do not have a conventional dielectric. Rather than two separate plates separated by an intervening insulator, these capacitors use virtual plates that are in fact two layers of the same substrate. Their electrochemical properties, the so-called "electrical double layer", result in the effective separation of charge despite the vanishingly thin (on the order of nanometers) physical separation of the layers. The lack of need for a bulky layer of dielectric, and the porosity of the material used, permits the packing of plates with much larger surface area into a given volume, resulting in high capacitances in practical-sized packages.
In an electrical double layer, each layer by itself is quite conductive, but the physics at the interface where the layers are effectively in contact means that no significant current can flow between the layers. However, the double layer can withstand only a low voltage, which means that electric double-layer capacitors rated for higher voltages must be made of matched series-connected individual EDLCs, much like series-connected cells in higher-voltage batteries.




And a diagram showing the differences:

800px-Supercapacitor_diagram.svg.png






Here is the problem. Only electrochemical caps (supercaps/ultracaps) have the energy densities getting to even 1/10th of a crappy conventional battery. Electrochemical caps rely on a solvent to serve as an electron transfer medium through the separator. Every known solvent that can serve as the transfer medium, also breaks down and rapidly off-gasses above ~4-5v. Getting voltages to be in the kV range means you can't use a solvent interface, which means you can't leverage the energy storage method an ultra-cap uses, and you're back with orders of magnitude lower energy density electro-static type energy storage.
 
So how about supercaps that use string theory to draw energy from alternate dimensions? (Get some string theory into your grant proposals and watch the money flow.) I'm figuring on a fermion/chromodynamic battery. . . . Think of all the hadrons it would give you.

Once you get the grant, you don't have to actually make it work. You just have to keep making PROGRESS. Of course the occasionally exciting press release will keep the administration happy. That's my reaction to most cute technology when I read about it.

You laugh, but in 1939, the year someone would have had to be in 7th grade to have access to tin foil, they laughed at artificial rubber when it was discussed at the World's Fair.

Personally, I liked the university. They gave us money and facilities, we didn't have to produce anything! You've never been out of college! You don't know what it's like out there! I've worked in the private sector. They expect results..
- Dr Ray Stanz (Dan Aykroyd), 'Ghostbusters'

There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.
- Larry Flynt
 
That last link EG 14v @65 farrad was really poor. Sorry for that one. Im onto another project and not really reading things.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LzcGXHjpdM&feature=plcp

12.4 to 10.4v @ 520 farrads, using only 2v volts of energy runs a medium sized honking CRT TV and Xbox for almost 5 minutes. Not bad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LzcGXHjpdM&feature=plcp

An Xbox 360 with a efficient LCD consumes about 14amps @ 12v through an inverter. This is 168 watts.

But in the first YT clip hes running a honking CRT TV.

Try running a 12ah SLA battery @ 1C You wont get an hour out of it, maybe more like 30 mins until 10.4v.


Double this bank size and boost its output to 1040F you get 10 mins.

OK he only utilizes 17% of the voltage, id say 33%, 50% of voltage to 6.2v is 75%, to 3.1v its 93% , because of the linear voltage down ramp would equate to = an inverse currnent up ramp. if you could utilze 50% thats down to 6.2v, but the current use will rise from 15 amps to 30 amps @ 6.2v. Because its linear between two points we can averge to the middle.

So he uses averaged 3.1v of energy @ 22 amps from his new and larger 1040f cap = 68.2 watts

xbox and TV @ 11.4v * 17 amps = 194 watts. 194 watts/ 68 = 2.85

5 minutes x 2.85 =14 minutes. @ 22 amps = 3.65 AH.

Look at the video, 5 minutes, double the farad and allow for another 4v to be taken, my figures seem on target.

Newer caps reach 3000f for the same size, 5 in series = 600F and a P string takes us up to 1200 = +15% farad- minutes-ah = 4.19 ah = 16.1 minutes.

If 160F gets you 2 mins with an Xbox and TV using 3.1v averaged energy. You could get an hour out of 4800f and with a brand new HDPC and energy efficient led screen Maybe an hour and 30 mins.

12ah Lead acid battery runs 28mins @ 1C = 5.6 ah. Both Up conversion of the caps and internal resistance of a 12ah battery have inefficiencies so lets call it a day.


Ucaps today are underestimated and often misculated.

Ultracaps are bigger than lead acid but lighter.



:?: :?: :?: Question. :?: :?: :?:

So you think you can dance?

What would happen if instead, you put each cap through a an isolated boost transformer and then series the isolated outputs.

As I understand 1/CT = 1/C1 + 1/C2 + 1/C3 because when you series capacitor they loose capacitane due to the plates distance increases between the main outputs of the total series string.

3000 farad equal caps in series, basically = 3000/4 =750 F This is a significant loss of energy potential.

Ok the million dolar question. By isoiating each plate from each other through an islolated DC to DC converter, does this allow each cap to have its own capacitance? independant of each other?

Then after the isoiation circuit one could series as many caps as you like.



2.5v isnt much volatge to play with, but you could run 3S 2.5v 3KF caps >| > *10 and Down convert each isolated S string to 2.7v


= 1000F @ (7.5v*10)

If you were to run a 48v system pack and managed to convert every isolated string down to 4.8v this would be 48v @ 1000 farad nbeing now able to utilize 27v @1000 farad..

Again @ 2v 520F = 17 amps = 5min running time, @ 1040F = 10 mins running time, with 27v potential under the seat this make almost 50 mins running time.

Must experiment with Isolated DC converter with Ucaps. :mrgreen:
 
If I am correct, and an isolation circuit allows for each capacitor series string to retain its capacitance, Then it just gets better.

Every string 2nd series only requires a converter.

1/CT= 1/C1 + 1/C1 + 1/C1 ETC.

So

The first string is 3*3000F series DC converted 4.8v

The second string only requires a 2.5v 1000F cap

The third string is 3*3000F series DC converted 4.8v

So in essence, you get (4.8v > 2.5v)> string of 10 =73v

The only difference is, you only require 5 series strings of 3S @3000F caps and 5*2.5v 1000f caps in between.

Thats a saving of 15 3000F and 5 islolation DC conveters, at an added cost of 5*1000F 2.5v caps.
 
OMG dude. I don't know if you're just jerk'n my chain here, or if you're serious, but I hope you realize no amount of re-configuring caps in series or parallel allows them to hold even 1mJ more energy.


Say we have 8 x 100F 2.5v caps.

We can combine it 8p, and have a 800F 2.5v cap. (800F*2.5v^2)/2 = 2.5kJ

We can combine it 4p2s, and have a 200F 5v cap. (200F*5v^2)/2 = 2.5kJ

We can combine it 2p4s, and have 50F 10v cap. (50F*10v^2)/2 = 2.5kJ

We can combine it 8s, and have a 12.5F 20v cap. (12.5F*20v^2)/2 = 2.5kJ


You don't lose any energy when you stack them in series, no matter how you arrange them, discharge them, etc, you never get more energy than the combined sum of the energy storage of the individual caps. You can isolate anything you like, discharge them as singles or a giant series string, you don't get a single bit more energy than the sum of the individual caps energy storage.



That above example with a the TV and X-box being powered is sad. 1:50 to 4:50, 3 minutes of running just a small TV (x-box was obviously not running on the inverter, as he had it loaded and the game paused when the TV turned on). We can calculate exactly how much energy his inverter powering the TV was pulling.

(520F*12.4v^2)/2 = 39.9kJ of energy
The inverter clicked off with 10.4/12.4*520F left, or 436F, so the energy remaining was (436F*10.4v^2)/2 = 23.5kJ of energy.

39.9kJ - 23.5kJ = 16.4kJ of energy used. Why such a high percentage of energy used in the first 2v of discharge? Because 50% of the energy in a capacitor is stored in the top 25% of the voltage.

16.5kJ of energy is 4.5Wh of energy. That's a bit less than half of what a single 18650 laptop cell holds.
 
liveforphysics said:
OMG dude. I don't know if you're just jerk'n my chain here, or if you're serious, but I hope you realize no amount of re-configuring caps in series or parallel allows them to hold even 1mJ more energy.

Crap, take it all back! Say it ain't so. My perpetual motion machine (based on dynamically reconfiguring capacitor banks) just came to a screeching halt... :evil:
 
I just posted some news guys. No need to blame me for EEstors time fram and its investors woes. I have reacting to the "initial" wall of hostility as anyone would, and just looking for a way to get around the Ucaps limitations.

There are buses that rely on Ucaps and recharge at every stop. You know I am only saying that this technology has potential. I dont think I am wrong for believing in such a thing.
 
I have nothing against ultra caps or electrolytic caps or electrostatic caps.

They all have their place.

It doesn't seem EEstor has contributed to any of them though.
 
I have been following eestor since 2008. Same song and dance how they are about to release their ultracap. I will believe it when I see it.
 
This one slipped past in mid September but I will post it anyway. I am not holding my breath over progress at EEstor. My guess is that you aren't either.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/zenn-motor-company-provides-eestor-223448203.html


TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Sept. 12, 2012) - ZENN Motor Company Inc. (ZNN.V) ("ZENN" or the "Company") provided an update on EEStor Inc. ("EEStor") and its progress in the development of its Electrical Energy Storage Units ("EESUs"). This update is being made in connection with the commitment of ZENN to report on technological progress at EEStor by September 12, 2012 and in lieu of a direct release by EEStor. On September 10, 2012 representatives of ZENN and its consultant (Mr. John Galvagni, an expert in capacitors with extensive industry experience in energy storage) attended at the facilities of EEStor in Cedar Park, Texas. The ZENN team was given unprecedented access to EEStor and its technology. EEStor provided an in-depth briefing on the history of its development of EESUs and allowed ZENN's team to observe testing on various layers produced by EEStor.

EEStor is producing EESU layers in its facility in Cedar Park, Texas. The ZENN team was given a full tour of the state of the art facility. It observed a recently produced layer which was tested at 1 volt and had an observed permittivity level in excess of 100,000. The layer did not contain any of EEStor's proprietary composition-modified barium titanate ("CMBT") powders and so was not tested at higher voltages. Without the CMBT powders dissipation and leakage would not be expected to be at commercially acceptable levels. EEStor then demonstrated a layer produced some time ago which had an earlier version of its plastic based matrix and contained the CMBT powders. The earlier versions of the layer had substantially lower levels of permittivity than the recent layers. This layer with the CMBT had a permittivity of approximately 1000 and was tested at several voltages ranging from 1 volt to 1250 volts. There was no observed decline in permittivity throughout the test. Further, observed leakage throughout the test was not in excess of 1 micro ampere even at 1250 volts, a field of 50 volts/micron.

Mr. Galvagni has provided his preliminary report to ZENN and notes the following:

-- the level of permittivity achieved in the layers without CMBT is

unprecedented and appears to represent a significant breakthrough in

dielectric materials

-- the fact that permittivity of the layer with CMBT was maintained across

a broad voltage range is a positive achievement as to date higher

permittivity dielectric materials have shown significant declines in

permittivity as voltage is increased. Declines are generally observable

above permittivity levels of 50. Dielectric materials with a

permittivity above 600 have all shown material declines in permittivity

as voltage is increased. While the tested layer at a permittivity of

1000 is a long way from the 100,000 level in the current layers, it is a

positive indicator of the performance of EESU layers where the CMBT has

been added and is an important technological step. It remains to be seen

whether the layers will maintain their permittivity when voltage is

increased at permittivity levels well in excess of 1000

-- the consistency and characteristics of the CMBT appear to be at a level

of purity not previously attained. Original purity levels were

previously certified by EEStor through a third party in 2009.

-- the observed leakage rates are extremely compelling for energy storage

applications

-- the plant employs advanced technologies and appears to be easily

scalable

Overall Mr. Galvagni expressed his excitement in what he saw. Mr Galvagni was informed of the trigger in certain options granted on September 12, 2011 that depends on EEStor showing "significant progress in technology development" and was asked to provide independent advice in this regard. He advised ZENN that he had witnessed very significant technological progress in the area of capacitors, dielectrics and energy storage. He indicated that if high permittivity levels can be maintained across a range of voltages when the CBMT powders are added to the current polymer based high permittivity version of the EESU, the layers will have significant commercial potential. If the observed high permittivity can be maintained as voltage is increased it could be possible to produce high energy density layers at voltages much lower than the targeted 3500 volt level which would simplify the EESU's commercial application.

EEStor is now working on its next step of adding CMBT powders to its new polymer based high permittivity layers. It believes, based on fundamental research and the tests it provided to ZENN, that these layers should be able to achieve high energy density with low levels of dissipation and leakage and overall performance at or above the targets agreed with ZENN in the Technology Agreement between the parties dated May 15, 2012. However, until the layers are produced and tested there can be no assurance of the performance of these layers.

Jim Kofman Chairman and Interim CEO of ZENN commented: "This is the kind of information shareholders have been seeking for a long time. It is exciting to finally see the technological progress at EEStor. The EEStor team has been working long and hard to prove its technologies and was able to convincingly demonstrate some major achievements. We are mindful that the next step of producing layers that meet all our performance targets is the most critical step, but our observations and Mr. Galvagni's report give us the most current empirical evidence of major scientific breakthroughs at EEStor. It supports our confidence that things are going in the right direction and that EEStor has been making important breakthroughs."

To assist EEStor in its working capital needs, ZENN has offered to advance up to $200,000 to EEStor against payments payable under the milestones in the Technology Agreement subject to certain adjustments depending on when EESUs are certified.

Further updates will be provided once EEStor has produced and adequately tested its new layers. The observations from this visit do not constitute formal certification as ZENN was not able to test or calibrate the testing equipment and Mr. Galvagni was not engaged to conduct formal certification. An independent testing firm is expected to conduct such tests.

John Galvagni has worked in the technology space with a focus on capacitors and energy storage for over 50 years. Most importantly for 38 years he worked with AVX Corporation as an R&D Scientist and an AVX Fellow and was involved in the development of energy storage capacitors. He has an undergraduate degree in Chemistry from St. Michaels College, Vermont, did graduate work in Physics at Bennington College, Vermont and Mass State and an MBA from Webster University, Missouri.

About ZENN Motor Company Inc.

The Company's goal is to be the provider of leading edge power storage solutions and related technologies to the automotive industry.

Technologies and solutions, powered by EEStor's electrical energy storage units (EESU) have the potential to enable OEM and Tier 1 partners to deliver advanced electric transportation solutions to their customers.

Neither TSX Venture Exchange nor its Regulation Services Provider (as that term is defined in the policies of the TSX Venture Exchange) accepts responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this release.
 
EEstor is just another 'green energy' snakeoil company.
 
Glad they are going with a more sensible voltage. Looks like they going to see this through.



http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/eestor-provides-additional-test-data-following-june-5-2013-testing-and-update-on-current-status-213212171.html

The following data from new layer material was certified by Criteria Labs on June 5, 2013:

Average capacitance of the four layers = 0.22 micro farads

Average Resistance of the four layers = 10.7 mega ohms

Subsequently, on June 26, 2013 EEStor, Inc. had the area and thickness of the new material layer certified by TesCom at EEStor, Inc. using TesCom calibrated EEStor, Inc. equipment. TesCom was called in to certify these results due to scheduling issues with Criteria Labs. Subsequent testing will be conducted by Criteria Labs. The equipment used to measure the area and thickness was certified by TesCom, a calibration company which was selected by Criteria for the certification of the equipment used in their June 5, 2013 certification process.

The following data from new layer material was certified by TesCom:

Average thickness of the four layers = 25.1 microns

The area of each of the four layers = 0.403 centimeters squared

The average volume of the four layers = 0.00101 centimeters cubed

Using the certified capacitance, area, thickness, and volume the following relative permittivity was calculated:

The average relative permittivity of the four layers = 15,476

EEStor believes that relative permittivity of 15,476 and an insulation resistance of 10.7 mega ohms of this initial new material test layer represents a major breakthrough in EEStor, Inc. new dielectric materials. By comparison, a 0.22 micro farad 100 V capacitor manufactured by EPCOS has a volume of 0.216 cubic centimeters or 214 times bigger than EEStor's equivalent capacitance. Capacitance is directly proportional to energy storage and this high capacitance volume also indicates the ability of EEStor, Inc. to potentially exceed its energy storage operating targets.
 
Despite still not attaining their ED yet for "certification", they have improved the materials and this in itself will pay off in the long run. Capacitors 100s of times smaller, that are more reliable will save much space on a PCB and in landfills. Saves money on manufacturing PCB tech. Copper, lead, and glass. They still have something and it is far from VAPORWARE.
 
Certification is paramount.

Moving down to 500v has impeded their invention. In the AU thats the legal limit of what you can have in 3 phase AC in the home, should be the same a broad.

Use all the energy from 500v to 48v compared to 3500v to 48v is a lot of the ED.

Their 100kg battery is weighing about 700kg now.

And there is no way they would build something that could release 52kw in the blink of an eye, charge from a wall socket, all they have worth certifying is a fi re cracker.

The possibility is to do; it is a lot easier to achieve, than it is to do it safely. Hence the green theme to the whole aspect of the research, and the crazed opposition of the company's involved reputations. I beg to avoid politics.
 
Guess even Kleiner Perkins is getting tried of all the bs...

http://gigaom.com/2013/08/12/kleiner-to-sell-off-its-early-eestor-shares-to-zenn-motors/

Venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins appears to be selling off its early shares in controversial energy storage startup EEStor. ZENN Motors, which is an EEStor investor and formerly made electric cars, announced late last week that it’s come to an agreement to buy up the Series A EEStor shares from KPCB Holdings (Kleiner Perkins) as well as other early investors like one named as Longshot Holdings.

ZENN plans to buy 502,344 Series A EEStor shares for $2 million plus 3 million common stock ZENN shares. ZENN plans to raise $3.5 million to fund the purchase. If this deal closes ZENN says it will hold about 41 percent of the outstanding equity and voting shares of EEStor. ZENN’s future was already tightly aligned with EEStor’s future.

The real question is will those EEStor shares ever be worth anything? To Kleiner Perkins, the answer seems to be a no — or at least they’re not willing to wait any longer to see.

Kleiner has always distanced itself from the early investment, reportedly in 2005, in EEStor, keeping the company off of its website and rarely answering questions about the investment. Kleiner’s Bill Joy talked about the company during a public forum a few years back, but Joy (along with Ray Lane) will not be leading new investments for Kleiner’s new fund.

Kleiner’s greentech investments have mostly been disappointing, though some have managed to do alright, like Silver Spring Networks, Opower and Nest. But others, like Fisker Automotive, have been high profile problems. Getting out of EEStor is probably another way for Kleiner to mitigate some of its more high risk greentech investments that might prove problems in the future.

We haven’t covered EEStor in awhile because the company has long over-promised and under delivered on all of its technology goals. EEStor has been trying to commercialize a supercapacitor that can provide 10 times the energy of lead-acid batteries at one-tenth the weight and half the price. Such a supercapacitor could theoretically help solve the problem of expensive and short range batteries for electric cars.

:D
 
:arrow: Ah, but Kleiner is taking 3 million shares of Zenn Motors stock as part of the deal. Since Zenn's only asset is its partial ownership and marketing agreement with EEstor, Kleiner must think that there is still somthing there.
Been following this saga since 2008 and hope to live long enough to see if Dick Wier turns out to be a genius or a con artist.
Full disclosure; have bought and sold Zenn stock hundreds of times and am actually a little ahead. Currently hold 3K shares.
 
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