Electric CRF Moto Build

[juman]

Still gotta cleanup a few items but been testing it just riding around the neighborhood, probably done like 15-20 miles and so far nothing concerning far as how it's 'working'. It's not crazy fast, it's not crazy powerful but it is fun and I think I could get up to ~50-55mph which is more than enough here....kinda cool. Think the 13/48 gearing I have is about right, maybe I'll play with 50 or 52 sprocket at some point.

Today finally figured on the speedo how to make it show MPH and want to calibrate for these wheels to be somewhat close. Surprisingly Votol has some instructions for it and would like to use this to have a somewhat gauge on distance since it's easy (the phone works as well but gotta remember to turn on tracking).

LCD Display Electric LCD Speedometer for VOTOL Controller

It's LCD display electric LCD speedometer for VOTOL controller, this display can work for ONE-LIN and CAN, can match with VOTOL. D N R, P, 1 2 3 S gear.

votol.cn

Need to test my overall distance but since speedo hasn't been working only been spot-checking speed/distance via phone tracking. Hoping I can get ~25-35miles out of it as that's not a bad trail day and would be more than enough for scooting around town for errands. Know this highly depends on me and I'll be playing with the regen, it's only at 10% right now.

Found my headlight wire on the front and headlight coming tomorrow. It's 'nice' that this kit came with it's own wiring loom but as I was testing wires with the DC converter connected I realized I had live +12v wires up front that weren't really capped off. Made me realize I probably have some wires in the back of my loom that are like this with +12v with my DC converter plugged in and I don't like a live wire being exposed, cap it off in some way if not being used.

Didn't plumb the wiring for this yet but put on a taillight because it does act as a reflector as well (and nice spot for registration sticker). Decided against full lighting kit, just doing headlight/taillight/mirror since this is not a 'street bike'. Then later this week going to register as low-power scooter, technically with how it's setup it basically hits all street legal rules for a full on motorcycle, even DOT tires.


Final thing I need to note for myself is to ensure the wiring is as 'closed off' as possible before I go take this on trails. Fact is it's going to get dirty off-road, all my current riding is just on small neighborhood roads that are 'clean'. Oh and bring a buddy/tow rope....ya know because I totally trust something I built .

 

[juman]

This 'dirt bike' is sure looking street legal...technically if I were to add a horn it would hit all street legal criteria for a motorcycle here. Spent a long while with multimeter on my front wires for the harness, any not in use are taped off then wrapped up in some wiring loom cloth tape. So much time setting wires then turning my steering left/right to confirm nothing binding up. I need to do this same thing with some wiring under my seat.


Re-wired the headlight connector to match my KTM since this is a KTM-style headlight I modified onto here, drilled some holes in the fender and single bolt up front holds it on. Also made sure the wires behind aren't hitting this thing since not really designed to have a headight....nor a bunch of wires up front.


Big part of being able to use this on the street as a low-power scooter is looking like I belong on the street, far as I can tell the law doesn't say anything about lights/mirror/dot tires but eh it's how I roll since I imagine I'll encounter some police officers. The only thing I really should get for quality of life....is a kickstand hah.

 

[juman]

Woooo, as of yesterday this e-bike is officially registered as a low-power e-scooter for the roads....coincidentally we got 6-8" of snow yesterday so no riding just yet. Also think I got my speedo calibrated properly this week comparing to phone GPS so that's nice to record mileage better, gotta get an idea of my mileage per charge.

Fixed chain tensioners, 20 year old bikes people strip things out so just threw some nutserts in here:


Decided this week to get a new chain since I was using an old/loud one and now glad I did. Since this was built over such a long period I realized I never loctited my sprocket bolts and one was gone baby gone.


Still need to re-wire my starting key-switch since it's a bit janky right now and go over the rear wires on my wiring harness (under the seat) the same as I did on the front to ensure things capped off and such....also might connect up the tail-light since it would be safer to have a tail-light.

Think I've built and rebuilt this bike a few times now, put it together, see how it fits, take it apart, modify then re-do . The nice part is compared to a gas bike, it's really simple to take apart.

 

[juman]

Did my first true ride with the bike now that it's more legal, had fully charged before I left, tested at 88.4v and so far went 13.1 miles and going to ride some more before testing voltage with multimeter. Learning this Votol EM200 a bit and it feels interesting with the power modes, not as I thought. I thought if I set the mode to 50% it would run 50% of the power like if I have 100a busbar it'll go up to 50amps of power in mode-1. It....sorta seems to do that but also seems to have a speed limiter even though I don't have that set. Like mode-1 hits a hard stop at 27mph and if I'm going 27mph, my dash will report something like 20amps being used and will NOT let me use more. I don't dislike this, it's just not as I thought it worked like it'll give me 50amps of power from 0-20mph then it starts cutting power until 27mph. Maybe I do have something set this way in the configuration though, still learning that.

Trip to the store and back, no issues except.....ugh I really need a kickstand hah. Gotta say it's lots of fun cruising down the bike lane listening to tunes without a worry and just some whizzing noise.

 

[juman]

Ah so I have learned a bit more on this Votol controller, I totally was not understanding the 3-modes properly. Originally started as this:


Because I had read somewhere the first box was the % of busbar that mode used then the second box I thought was the amount that 'sport mode' would add up to the sport-mode max current. So I was not understanding yesterday why the bike would do a HARD stop at 27mph even though the amps on my display showed over 60amps when accelerating....Well.....I decided the read the friggen manual and realized that first box is % of max RPM, second box is the % of busbar.

So I rode the bike in mode-1 yesterday with this and got hard stop at 27-miles which wasn't disappointing, was lower than I thought but I realized it was due to my settings here. Every time I was hitting the throttle to accelerate I was going the max amps in that mode and this is only a 40ah battery so it aint huge, basically my fun accelerating was draining it faster than I anticipated...I only had to push 1/2 mile home .

Today when this clicked, I changed my modes so mode-1 is now limited to 25% power or around 30amps. It goes the exact same speed as before but way less of a hit from a start since it's not throwing so much power at it. Mode-2 is now the power level I was basically riding yesterday then mode-3 is full power. Wouldn't be surprised if I got over 40miles in mode-1 now.



Will admit I haven't 'calibrated' this motor, just used the settings from the factory but think I need to calibrate things...wasn't hearing this before but sometimes hear a bit of a sound that I think is from the motor around 25mph. It's not bad but isn't 'right', only hear it under load.

 

[juman]

Two main issues to work on:

1. Under load right around 26mph I hear a very small thunk noise from the motor, I do NOT hear this downhill, only uphill, it is almost not noticeable but I can recreate this fairly easily so want to figure this out. This one I'm almost wondering if something is moving as well like maybe I left a bolt loose but weird that it's the exact same speed each time.
2. After changing my power settings where mode-3 is properly 'full busbar' I noticed a stronger noise if I hit the throttle too fast like this one I've recreated but this is the noise I don't like, it does not happen in the lower power modes. If I more slowly roll onto the throttle it seems to be just fine but a quick hit of the throttle from a stop it does not like right now.

Since both of these issues I believe I'm hearing from the motor I'm thinking it is related to calibration and/or my flux-weakening settings in general. I'll admit my own ignorance, I do not fully understand flux weakening fully but from what I've seen my settings from the factory might not make sense totally.

Like mid/high flux weakening I have not touched and are the settings from the factory:


Also didn't touch anything in sport mode except power level and in fact I've kinda avoided sport mode so far until I get mode-3 working better:


Had to dig around to understand the calibration aspect and figure start there but found this on the forum to unlock calibration mode then really I'm mostly concerned with flux weaking cal:

 

[juman]

Okay getting into calibration is like a video game cheat code with this buggy software hah. Doesnt always work but 50% of the time it'll work 100% of the time.

- Hold shift, keep holding the entire time
- Place cursor in box hit backspace to delete the '0'
- Add (2) ~ but dont do it too fast or it crashes!
- Release shift, calibration mode available

My laptop isn't top of the line but isn't that old and doing remote control with this software bogs down my computer like crazy, like it's so laggy to change things within the program using the remote control I dont think I can use it.

 

[juman]

I still don't understand my flux settings totally but found this and was reading it over:

Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

On the back of the display, solder the cable at (hall sensor) in the controller setup = page2/hall speedometer, In portsettings /pb9=13,io Hey Im near the dirt bike and I have tried it now and still doesn't work I should use the white wire of the controller right? I'm using votol 200

endless-sphere.com

So I turned flux weakening comp to 0; HDC to 4400 and flux weakening under sport to 0 which as I understand basically disables flux weakening and just lowers my max RPM.


The the motor ran clean up to 4400 RPM, no issue at all going to full throttle that I hear on the stand. After testing just these (3) settings for flux weakening and HDC I found that it was over ~5400rpm where my motor makes the unhappy noises. Which leads me to believe the flux weakening settings I have are not 'good' or right for the default 6200rpm this controller/motor was sent with. Thus for now I lowered my HDC to 5200 which does slow my bike but while I understand flux weakening settings more I can see about increasing that again.

After the above test, changed my flux weakening settings from OEM to what I saw another person using this controller/motor using to see how it sounds/feels, these values are lower than the OEM ones that were set:


I did check my Q-amps during this and was showing round 175 which I read that should be 200-300 so noted but the motor sounds clean. Finally think I know what the other sound I was hearing is, I forgot this when rebuilding the bike frame but 20 year old dirt bike that's been thrashed in the Rocky Mountains....the swingarm has some movement that it shouldn't have . Completely forgot this since I rebuilt this frame 3-4 years ago but yea some swingarm damage could make a little noise, not moving enough for anything to really be hurt that I see.

Now to go test things out with the new settings under load. If anyone wants to laugh, initially I was testing on the stand with my chain connected to the rear wheel....yea it got a bit rowdy until I was like, "So uh....you know that chain is a clip-style link you can just remove so the entire wheel isn't dangerously spinning in the garage right?"

 

[juman]

Today crossed a milestone, took this bike all the way to work, 10-11 miles each way which is the furthest I've gone in a single trip like all at once....Man what a casual nice way to get to work. Took me ~25-30mins and generally i can make it in 15-20 but I took more side-roads to avoid traffic. I did have range anxiety at work.....but found that we have 120v outlets on the light-posts in our parking lot! Charged the bike while at work and then rode it home! With my testing I should get ~25miles but it died at 25 miles and I was pushing.

I even....rode past a police officer at my blazing fast 26mph, he did not care one bit, I must look very street legal .

Also I did the entire ride home, 11 miles in mode-2 then got home and battery was showing 78.9v charge. Almost seems like I get better battery life from my higher power mode-2 than mode-1.
Mode-2 set for 60amps and 100% RPM - Goes ~35-38mph
Mode-1 set for 30amps and 60% RPM - Goes 27mph

Also due to range anxiety and the 'battery gauge' on this cluster being....for lack of a better term, junky, I bought a voltage meter to plugin to my charge outlet and see voltage. I'd like to know where it's at when I'm riding things.

 

[juman]

Okay voltage gauge I really needed, just did another 10 miles and seeing the voltage change makes more sense for me. Like I can see hard throttle will drop voltage by 2-4v but then easing up at speed it rises back up a bit. When my bike outright dies, I assume it was BMS cutting things due to this voltage sag and this will be able to let me see more. Tomorrow I'm going to make a mount right below my dash to mount my key and the voltage meter, right now voltage meter just zip tied on.


I may be wrong but I think I kinda use more power in mode-1 because it cuts the RPMs like that RPM cut is 'stealing power' by cutting my power at those RPMs and not allowing things to coast more. I might be changing mode-1 to NOT cut RPMs at all and just let it go as far as 30amps will take it which is probably only a few mph more.

154 miles total on this thing and hoping for many more!


Anyone else like making kids jealous? Oh man I love seeing their faces as I sound like a tie-fighter passing them .

 

[juman]

Ain't much but it's all the little things that make me happy, not perfect but first revision of a 'dash' for my volt-meter and key.


Really outside of fine tuning my controller more and understanding flux weakening better I'm basically 'done' with the build. I have avoided wiring my rear taillight in but I need to finish that still since I think it's a smart think to have wired, right now it's just a reflector back there.

Do still need to find my exact range, so far I've for 25miles but that was early on as I wasn't understanding as much, both times it would just shutdown hard which I assume is the BMS since it'd come right back on as soon as I connected to charger. Think what's happening is battery voltage is sagging low enough to hit BMS cutoff which I need to find where that is and program that into my controller so I avoid hitting that hard stop.

 

[bananu7]

25 miles is 40km. I get the same range out of my battery (72v40ah), pretty much regardless of how I ride, so I would say that's about right. Glad you managed to get back to the project!

Did you weigh it with the new battery and all?

 

[CRF265]

I also have a converted CRF250X and find range varies heaps depending how hard I ride. I have a 5.2kWh battery but only get 40kms riding hard. I can get 60kms at a decent pace keeping flow going and not aggressively opening the throttle. Most I have ever stretched was 77kms riding easy in the suburbs.
What kind of BMS do you have? I am running an ANT bms with a Bluetooth battery display that shows voltage, %soc, current, temps and min/max string voltages. I find the SOC% super helpful for ensuring i get back to the car without running out and since im running around 100v I can glance at the amps and quickly estimate real time power consumption and regen.

 

[juman]

25 miles is 40km. I get the same range out of my battery (72v40ah), pretty much regardless of how I ride, so I would say that's about right. Glad you managed to get back to the project!

Did you weigh it with the new battery and all?

That's good to know, still new to this so figuring it out and in the back of my mind...I paid $400 for this battery so I don't expect a ton from it. Just weighed it today and it felt lighter than my KTM 500 when putting on the stand, officially 229lbs as it sits.

I also have a converted CRF250X and find range varies heaps depending how hard I ride. I have a 5.2kWh battery but only get 40kms riding hard. I can get 60kms at a decent pace keeping flow going and not aggressively opening the throttle. Most I have ever stretched was 77kms riding easy in the suburbs.
What kind of BMS do you have? I am running an ANT bms with a Bluetooth battery display that shows voltage, %soc, current, temps and min/max string voltages. I find the SOC% super helpful for ensuring i get back to the car without running out and since im running around 100v I can glance at the amps and quickly estimate real time power consumption and regen.

So that's the fun part, the battery is just some cheaper LifePo4 since this was as much a proof of concept for me than anything so I have no idea the BMS inside . I assume the cheapest BMS they could find and it seems to cut-off at ~70v but as I was going cheap I did specifically look for LifePo4 since a bit less explodey. I couldn't stomach $1000-1500 on a decent battery when I wasn't sure how well this all worked since this is first ebike build. I am learning on these types of batteries though as well since this is my first 'big battery', sit there watching my voltage as I'm harder on the throttle and how it creeps back up, that is all new to me.

Done a little over 400 miles on this bike and feel I've learned a good bit here like the QS138v3 70h so far I'm finding to be a rather good little motor, I mean I haven't thrown more than 125amps at it but works well, good bit of power in that little package. The gearbox is super nice because I can use normal rear sprockets and I think with enough amperage this would put out the power to feel as good as a 250cc bike which would be about perfect to me.

The Votol EM200 controller seems....fine, I'm not bashing it because fact is it's working but it also seems a bit wonky, it is definitely overbuilt for my setup and as such is a bit 'big' here. The controller software is buggy as heck but end of the day it is working.

Right now really just enjoying riding the bike around basically as a commuter but I think the next step here is going to be a new Amorge battery and I've been eying the Fardriver ND96680 controller since it's smaller so it could be mounted where the radiator used to be. Better battery would change this bike entirely but also it is working so kinda enjoying that aspect for now. Will say....don't tell my dirt biking buddies.....I kinda love the electric. I have a 4-stroke next to a 2-stroke next to a....um...0-stroke in my garage right now .

 

[juman]

And going to be some re-design of things but hit up Amorge on this battery:

AMORGE 20S13P 72V 65AH 325A Lithium Battery for Honda CRF 250 Dirt Bike

Options with different cellsHow to order?How to order?

www.amorge.com

Measured/made cardboard template, looks good to fit in the frame just going to have to put controller where radiator was. Got lost in cell types and just settled on asking for Tenpower 50XG version. This is a bit of a big investment in electric but I'm having a ton of fun, want more distance.....and mo powa.

If anyone curious on their current pricing for these:

 

[CRF265]

Would be worth going 26s10p if they can do it and you are planning on using a 96v series controller. Same current per cell but current at the bus will be lower, motor will rev higher with less field weakening and work more efficiently at higher rpm.

 

[juman]

Would be worth going 26s10p if they can do it and you are planning on using a 96v series controller. Same current per cell but current at the bus will be lower, motor will rev higher with less field weakening and work more efficiently at higher rpm.

Ugh now you got me thinking since I haven't officially placed the order with Amorge yet....thinking 72v because that's what I'm using and feeling 'comfortable' with plus I currently have a 72v battery so I'd have an extra battery for testing/whatever. This would force me to get a new controller but I kinda want a smaller one anyway...

Thinking on this though, right now with 6200rpm set on the motor it goes ~50mph which in all honesty....no need for more, with this being in a dirt bike frame it will see dirt bike action so I'd rather some hefty torque over high RPM. That said I think I've read up to 6500rpm on qs138v3 is 'quite safe', up to ~8k is where it starts getting risky and above 10k you're might make some fun things happen.

Hmm....it is more efficient and I like efficiency....here I thought I was past the hard decisions after picking a cell with Amorge!

 

[bananu7]

+1 on going up to 96V. I'll definitely go up with my next battery.

For controller, I think the new vesclabs are pretty cool (and small), but a 96V fardriver would still be reasonably priced.

 

[CRF265]

If amorge can package 26s10p for no extra cost then it could be worthwhile. Higher voltage will allow you to run lower gearing without sacrificing top end, hence you will gain low end torque that you are after, especially with an nd96850 controller where you can provide phase amps at the limit of your motor. This changes the power class of the bike to contend with a full size moto and less of a muck around toy, ie 30kw, 500nm. Battery usage will be similar if you still ride it steady, but the power will be on tap if/wanted

You can still use your spare 72v battery for testing, you will just need to change the voltage setting in the controller.

 

[juman]

Kinda went around on this one in my head and I very much value the responses, I decided to stick with 72v since I am still newer to this so I didn't want to 'change' too much here. Realized I did list a 96v controller for Fardriver but if I swap controllers would just be 72v version (like 721000 or something). I am having enough fun with this that I foresee another ebike build in the future with a newer frame/suspension, end of the day this is a 23 year old bike frame.

One thing I've learned for myself is I have to kinda 'see my failures' in this like I knew when first starting this that I had no idea and I didn't even know if I'd have a working bike. Here I am with a working bike so want to see on making it better....if I succeed with this then it might be time to think on making 'wow this is cool' type bike.

I'm slowly at the point where I can basically foresee all parts I'd need to start a build whereas when I started this....I had no real idea what I was doing. My original motor/controller was a kit from QS motor which definitely helps get me going initially but now I look at the wiring harness going "Eh this is clunky...."

 

[bananu7]

when first starting this that I had no idea and I didn't even know if I'd have a working bike.

I'm very much in a similar boat, and the 2nd bike I'm building is also going to be 72V, but this is one of the key upgrades for the future, imo. The advantages are hard to ignore and other than a slightly more expensive controller and a bit trickier battery (which doesn't really matter if it's made with cylindrical cells) it seems it has almost no drawbacks.

another ebike build in the future with a newer frame/suspension, end of the day this is a 23 year old bike frame.

Actually I don't think that this frame is particularly bad for this purpose just because it's older. The frame is beautifully made, parts are plentiful if you break something, both used as well as new from China, suspension is technologically still more advanced than a lot of bikes coming out today, and everything else (tyres and especially drivetrain) get changed during the conversion. After replacing all of the bearings it all runs just like new. I'm not really sure if a newer bike would end up any better just because it's newer.

but now I look at the wiring harness going "Eh this is clunky...."

I will be upgrading the wiring on mine as well, that's going to be about 3rd or 4th iteration. You learn a lot by riding it and observing what stuff breaks and what keeps working well.

 

[juman]

Got ~800 miles on the ebike and honestly damn fun little setup that overall was, $1100 for the bike, $900 I think for controller/motor combo and $450 for the current cheapo battery....so it's like $3k 'proof of concept' for me. I can't complain though, I haven't really had any 'issues' other than ones I've made. Currently have things set to 125amp max as this old battery 'claims' 150amp output but what it's felt like is that it doesn't like to output over 100amps for longer than a few seconds and drops things. Really it felt 'comfortable' running up to 80amps which I'm not going to complain on a $450 battery.

But now....I move into big-boy territory as the new Amorge battery arrived. They do package these things pretty darn well, seems well built/solid and already connected to the ANT BMS where everything looks as expected, I love the ability to 'control' more of my battery with a bluetooth BMS. Amorge also includes some decently nice wire leads for the controller as well which I wasn't expecting.




Now I have to work up to tearing the current bike apart as it's a 'working bike' but....it's gonna be a better working bike soon. Break the bike down and build a new battery holder for it. This should be ~50% more range, possibly more, never trusted the AH rating of my current battery, says it's 40ah but no real idea. Going to have to move my controller to the radiator area during this.

 

[juman]

I have so far avoided learning welding in life but...for this project I really need a solid battery holder so it has to be metal. This is a dirt bike it will be going off whoops and flying 5ft in the air off-road, my current setup 'worked' but I was timid hitting anything hard.

I'd prefer lighter aluminum but wasn't going to learn tig just for this so...got some 1/8" steel from the hardware store and a new flux welder, my neighbor came over and taught me some things on laying down beads, before I knew it I had a base made for my battery holder.


Somehow on this first go with things, I measured pretty darn right, so right that the battery sits 'snug' into this holder like there is no wiggle in it. Might use like 1/8" rubber on the bottom where the battery sits just for some added padding.


I feel my welds suck, I hate adding the steel weight since this is going to be 5-8lbs of steel, I dunno what I'm doing but somehow this chunk of metal feels quite solid and practice makes perfect, if it annoys me/breaks at some point, I'll re-make it better as my skills improve. Honestly I have no idea how I made it fit so well, I figured it'd be way worse.

Originally was thinking I'd weld tabs on the front of this holder to mount to the front of the frame but looking at it now, I might almost make it a triangle where I have mounting tabs to the front of the frame and another down where the frame engine mount tabs are, should be very solid base.

 

[juman]

Woo feeling good, took me 3 tries to get the mounting tabs right and my welds are mediocre at best but I got a snug fitting battery holder on the bike now. This is the "CRF250" Amorge battery and a 2003 CRF450 chassis here, I didn't like Amorge's CRF450 style battery as much and from my research CRF250/450 frames are basically identical which this fits quite fine to me.




Just slides in from the top, thinking keep it simple and just some rubber straps across the top to 'hold it'...Might need to trim the gas tank a bit more due to the back corners of the battery but the plastic from the gas tank will also help 'hold things' snug (while being plastic so 'soft').


The front corners of the battery just sit against the front of the frame and with the shape of the battery it wants to 'lean forward' plus with the triangle shape on the front of my mount it 'holds' the bottom in unless I slide it backwards. Going to add some light rubber padding for the corners and such but honestly the weight of the battery really holds it in here quite well.


Went around on controllers, finally just ordered a ND72680 from e-conic cycles. I currently have a Votol EM200 (not the v2) so the older version and it's a big/heavy controller, it works...honestly no complaints on it other than wonky tuning software but it's big/heavy. The Fardriver will be smaller and I've seen some others mount the ND72680 where the radiators normally go which would be an ideal spot to me. The votol would have been a tight fit on the radiator mounts.

 

[bananu7]

from my research CRF250/450 frames are basically identical

FWIW, this frame looks very different from mine, but maybe that's because it's an older model.