Electric CRF Moto Build

[juman]

FWIW, this frame looks very different from mine, but maybe that's because it's an older model.

Yea I'm not sure newer stuff but think the early '00 models were basically the same. I could probably make the '450 battery' work but this one seemed like the better choice here. We'll see as I put it all together, might find a very good reason that I shouldn't have done this but so far seems 'ok'.

 

[juman]

I have two gas tanks because....I got ambitious with the dremel initially....but gives me a test unit to fit up to things. The rear of the battery does touch the gas tank but it kinda works perfectly where the gas tank is 'holding' the battery down as well. The front part of the gas tank is 'open' where the main wires are sitting basically right under the gas cap.


Then cut my better gas tank and fitted to the bike, the gas tank is cut where the plastic fits around the sides of the battery/frame in the bike so it also holds it from side-to-side motion. Going to use one strap over the top of the battery just to be safe but this setup seems quite secure.


The last 'fabrication' step I have is when the ND72680 gets here, make some mounts for it where the radiators go then it's back to wiring things up. With the ND72680 I did get a Surron throttle as well....the throttle that came with my motor works fine but changing grips is kinda impossible and they are wide grips....I got small hands! Wiring will be fun since my original kit was more plug and play, this might mean I have to think a bit more.

 

[juman]

Size difference between ND72680 and EM200, also a 2lb difference between them. Even though I'm changing controllers, I'll be darned if the EM200 does fit basically 'perfectly' under the seat on these bikes but that spot takes up too much battery space.


I'm feeling like a metal fabricator with my cutting/grinding/welding for mounts, got the top mount for the controller setup (I mean I still suck at it but it's functional for this!):


Lined it up where the metal bracket fits into the same spot the radiator would on the plastic shrouds like there's a notch it sits into which supports the shroud a bit. Gotta make a bottom mount for it still but feeling good on it so far.



This week should be tuning/figuring out the Fardriver controller as I've never used them but I do see some tuning guides online. My wiring is going to be MUCH simpler like right now it's literally, key-switch, voltmeter, throttle (new surron throttle) and 3-speed switch. My previous setup had a 12v converter on it and big wiring harness, nice for a first-timer but also big mess of wires. Later after some testing might add 12v converter back to get headlight working again.

Note...to...self...remove the sprocket from the motor before tuning!

 

[juman]

Not sure if I have a healthy or unhealthy fear when connecting things for the first time but I have that fear each time. Connected/mounted Fardriver controller, connected battery to motor and...was able to run the auto-tune without issue.

Getting into the Fardriver controller and the fact that it is working has me feeling great, much simpler to get into than Votol but I think a bit more complicated to tune. Did first test ride but was turned way down, just wanted to do a quick test and all was fine....So I watched this video to understand more on tuning and realized my phase amps were set really low for the RPM that my motor can do and I do still have things turned down from any maximums like 350a controller currently have 250a max.

After playing with the tuning today.....wow, yea it feels like double the power like it made me giggle in my helmet while riding in mode-3, in that moment I realized this was a good change. The one thing I want to play with more is the initial throttle, I dont want twitchy but I want a bit more snap which I'm fairly certain is there since I feel it pull harder once it's going like I might play with ECOAccCoeff to see how it feels. I haven't tuned my mid-range throttle either....heck I don't even have a grip on my throttle yet. Either way...

 

[juman]

Today did 22 miles STRAIGHT riding this new build which I've never done on this bike before, the old battery I didn't feel comfortable with much over 20 miles, even the 20 mile round-trip to work kinda stressed me a bit since it just died on me 2x right around 25 miles....This one is like "Whoa..." just did 22 miles of chill riding around on pavement and my dang BMS is saying SOC is 76%. This is chill riding in mode-1 but I'm kinda surprised, tells me upwards of 45-50 miles shouldn't be too crazy. Was kinda a warm day ~90F doing this and my motor is warm but not 'hot', no wires got hot, overall things feel really good...just gotta figure out the throttle....

Throttle is still 'off', bike pulls hard after it's going but that initial throttle doesn't really want to hit hard yet, not trying to be a hooligan here but this will be used as a dirt bike on trails so popping the wheel easily is helpful and I can modulate a throttle for slower stuff. It's like there's a 'slow start' mode for the first 500rpm then it hits and when it hits in mode-3 it's honestly 'quite a bit'...and I have an uncorked KTM 500 so lotta power in a light bike isn't crazy to me but the pull on this ebike is impressive.

 

[juman]

Rode this bike for the first time off road on some trails and....HOLY CRAP, it's AWESOME!!! I had so much power in mode-3 I couldn't control it on the trails and I even have it turned down there to 250amps line which this controller can do 350 (battery rated to 420). Mode-1 or ~4kw was a nice chill ride then mode-2 was....kinda perfect for trails and that's ~165amps line...just to do some math 165amps at ~79-80v is ~13kw....which translates to 17hp and this did not feel like a 17hp bike .

Now it's still a chill throttle off the start but today I kinda liked that, my off-road areas are very dry, dusty and just slick....so slick I dumped this bike twice....and nothing at all broke (woohoo!! drop test is important!) but this showed me the power it has. I'd still like to figure out the throttle but don't want to forget how this is right now since it does roll on nicely, not like most electrics that are more switch-like. The mid-range is where the meat of the power is, once going it'll light up the tire.

Like I'm kinda in awe here at just how good it was off-road, mode-2 would make the tire spin EASILY, the motor/battery/controller performed wonderfully. The only things I need to change are things so I can control this beast like the 110/100 tire on the back has gotta go, I'm finding the fattest tire I can get for this 19" wheel. The left hand brake was a nice test but after riding my off-road stuff....I was missing my foot brake. And finally engine braking needs to be improved, it currently free-wheels too much and with the hills I have, makes it a bit harder to control.

I had about half a dozen dirt bikers today asking me about it and a few were like, "I need contact info because I want to do this...I have a rolling chassis at home right now..."

 

[bananu7]

I'm finding the fattest tire I can get for this 19" wheel

Dump the 19", get a 18" wheel and a proper enduro tyre. The choice of tyres for 19" rims is much more limited.

I was missing my foot brake

You might consider doing a splitter and having both.

it's AWESOME!!!

I know, right? That's why I'm so anxious to get my #2 working to get more people to throw a leg over it. People who have only ever ridden gas bikes have no idea how good the DIY electrics are until they ride one.

 

[j bjork]

Hand brake is better overall, it just takes a little time getting used to.

 

[juman]

Dump the 19", get a 18" wheel and a proper enduro tyre. The choice of tyres for 19" rims is much more limited.

You might consider doing a splitter and having both.


I know, right? That's why I'm so anxious to get my #2 working to get more people to throw a leg over it. People who have only ever ridden gas bikes have no idea how good the DIY electrics are until they ride one.

Yea you're right, there aren't many 'good' 19" choices...I was looking last night and I so miss my good 18" tires I normally use. I didn't think of a splitter but that is an option here....I'm still in awe of how good it was. I thought I'd be 'weak' on power but when it hits it lights up the rear tire. I normally ride a KTM500 and KTM300 2-stroke so very capable bikes in the woods...I felt this bike would match them for performance there just not distance, on an MX track different story but in the woods where trees and cliffs slow me down, it's more than enough power.

Hand brake is better overall, it just takes a little time getting used to.

I had to try it but habits are hard to break. On pavement I'm fine with hand brake but once I was off-road in the woods, I found myself looking for my foot brake quite a bit. Maybe a splitter would be a good thing to keep both active.

 

[juman]

Ah-ha! My one issue I was feeling that I didn't like was initial throttle, something was 'off' where it felt like power was very progressive regardless of if I used line/sport or how I changed my acceleration steps. Turn the throttle it'd go but be very chill then would hit and give me full power.

Well....my PID settings I kinda left as-is after auto-learn but today started messing with "AN" which was set to...0. Found in the manual they recommend not less than 8 for a mid-motor and another recommendation saying 10 for QS138. Well I change to 10 and voila, I have low end torque. Actually saw that it says 10-16 for mid-motor so I did try 16 but it didn't sound as clear so went back down, 10 and 12 seemed about the same.

So currently:

AN = 10
StartKi = 4 (unchanged)
MidKI = 8 (unchanged)
MaxKI = 12 (unchanged)

I did also change my LM to 18 as that's what the manual recommended for a motorcycle, didn't really feel different from 22 but going to ride it and see. At this point I feel like I should re-do auto-learn with things.

 

[bananu7]

Thanks for posting that. I have just ordered a 72680 to replace the EM200 i already had for bike #2 for the exact same reason - it's just too big to fit in my electronics box (which I planned for it, but by mistake made it a bit too long and it'd collide with the shock). If you could dump/screenshot your exact settings i'd prolly copy them 1:1 because I will have exactly the same motor+ctrl combo.

 

[juman]

Don't take this as me saying this is all 'correct' and these are still being changed but after changing my AN setting it now wants to lift the wheel all the time in mode-3. I'm still learning here myself so while I *think* these settings are 'ok', there is a possibility there are some unsafe settings since I am learning but I don't intend to destroy this setup.

Main stuff is really from self-learn but self-learn set my max speed to 12000rpm so I've turned that down to 7000 for this motor which I'm testing but I think will be fairly safe, think I read people feel fairly safe up to 8000-9000rpm. Weak character/response I have not really played with much yet, this bike isn't meant for speed so 50mph is more than enough here. Need to test flux weakening more though, playing with those settings for the feel I like.


I've seen multiple people (maybe mistranslated manuals) claim this is flux weakening but I think this is amperage at RPM, really unrelated to flux weakening entirely. From reading on this, keeping this 100% for all RPMs can be dangerous as it will heat up the motor so starts high and tapers off as I near the max RPM I intend (this might still be a bit aggressive). I want all my main power to be sub-30mph, above that is just speed.


5000rpm as noted above is ~40mph so the mid-gear will probably go ~50-55mph. This setup I found mode-2 to be ideal for trail riding, mode-3 was a bit 'too much' and mode-1 was definitely not enough for trails but kinda perfect for commuting around. Mode-3 kinda show-off mode right now and it's set 100amps less than the controller/battery can do.

Regen braking I have 'on' but I need to understand better as I don't like doing high back currents to my battery, this is set to 10amp max same as my charger so right now I have very little engine braking, feels very 2-stroke-ish which is really fine to me. I will play with this more though.



Most of the function stuff I did not need to use nor change but I did change many over to 'NC' that weren't in use. The one pin that got me was the Charge Pin, if I change that to anything else even "NC" the throttle stops working and I hear a single beep from the controller. I do have the Follow set to enable regen braking when I release throttle because I want some 'engine braking'.


The only thing I changed here was the low-voltage protect, it's a few volts above my BMS setting for this so I figure controller will stop before the BMS truly cuts anything. I tried to change the motor temp protect but seems to want to stay at 150c, I wanted that at like 140c to be safe. I did read somewhere that "Full BattCoeff" might want to be edited if regen braking is enabled because that is the setting that would limit the max charge in case regen braking was on heavily with a full battery but as I type this, the BMS should limit that and currently my regen is fairly mild.



The PIDs were set via auto-learn but I did change AN=12 (also saw references to using 10 but 12 kinda feels better to me right now). Need to research this a bit more to ensure not hurting anything but manuals say 10-16 should be valid for a mid-drive motor and heck I was running 0 for a while just noticing no low-end torque. Also changed LM=18 (from 22) since manuals referenced using 18 for a motorcycle, have not really noticed any change with this setting though. I tried to change StartKC to 40 per the manual but the app doesn't seem to allow changing StartKC.


I have not touched anything with these settings but I have seen some references to changing some of these but I either need to go 1 by 1 testing them or read a bit more to find more on these.


I am more impressed with the performance after changing the AN setting, at this point I'm cleaning up my wiring, fixing my suspension (shock is blown out) and taking it out for a full dirt day next weekend...like I'm going to see how far I can go on dirt in mode-2, I think I'll get a solid 25 miles before feeling the need to head back to the truck.

 

[juman]

Gotta rebuild the shock since I'm really feeling it and think it's causing some issues, two times the bike cut off over decent sized whoops, the controller never turned off but it stopped for a second and immediately restarted, I think this is more the shock isn't working well and they were a bit harsh hits. But took the bike out for a good ride today on 100% dirt, around 30-miles not laying into things, just chill riding with a friend and gotta say if I'm being careful, it seems like I could get some really decent range, ended the day with 58% SOC.

Ran in mode-1 for the dirt 'road' to the trails which I like because it's limited to ~40mph and is quite chill, I can do full throttle and barely make the wheel spin but it'll go. My mode-1 should be ~83a line and 200a phase max, I haven't taken my battery down low because I know things don't drain in a linear fashion but thus far I seem to lose ~1-1.5% SOC for every mile in this mode. Again don't think the battery drains in a linear fashion but makes me feel like I could get upwards of 60-70 miles in mode-1.

Mode-2 has become my main trail mode which should be ~165a line and 375a phase...honestly on trails where I'm not launching over obstacles this is 'enough'. I break traction on it very easily where I have to be good on my throttle, to the point where I may decrease my acceleration parameters. Mode-2 I looked like I was seeing upwards of ~2-2.5% SOC per mile being used which would probably get me around 35-40 miles total.

Mode-3 as setup (250a line//500a phase) isn't really super usable on trails, it's honestly just too much power for the traction I have here. I want to get a new/better rear tire but also this electric torque feels like it's going to eat rear tires.

 

[juman]

Man I am so happy with this bike....during the week I can commute around town in low power mode being legal as a low power electric scooter. Change the power to mode-2 and it's honestly amazing on my trails. This picture is after it spent a good 15mins on it's side going down a rounded rock face....riding mistakes were made, realized I lost my mirror in the forest but that's why I go out there .


Did around 17-miles of trails on it today all in mode-2 which is ~220amp line and the drive-train was never my limiting factor, my suspension and tires limited me more than anything but I basically rode like I wanted, having fun and after 17-miles. I so far don't see a need/use for mode-3 (350a line) other than showing off, too much power just creates wheel-spin.


Tells me I can probably do a solid 40-mile day being pretty safe. Truly seems like ~18kw seems like 'quite enough' for any trail bike, enduro doing enduro things might want a bit more but this thing has a hit that rivals my KTM 300 2-stroke. The power does not translate the same on electric like 18kw is 24hp which on paper is the 'lowest power' dirt bike in my garage but the way the power comes on is impressive.

To fix/correct....

• Set suspension more stiff before trails next time, whoops were....surprising but even with being thrown around nothing failed
• Might have to re-do chain alignment, got a bigger tire and see the chain is kinda touching a knob, not horrible but not 'right'. I think I see the problem with motor alignment.

I like this conversion a LOT like LOT more than buying some electric moto that's available now because I know what's going on here. If my chassis needs parts, I've got multiple Honda stores, everything is 'normal' and I don't have weird one-off parts that are really hard to source. My poor gas bikes are feeling lonely .

 

[bananu7]

see the chain is kinda touching a knob

Mine barely clears with a 120/100-18. Barely is good enough though.

Truly seems like ~18kw seems like 'quite enough' for any trail bike,

+1. The only places where you'd need more are really steep hillclimbs, everywhere else more power just means more wheelspin. The only way to realistically use it would be actively lower torque in lower RPM and only allow it to pull harder once it's up to speed, or some other form of traction control. Gas bikes have both, so ironically them pulling less strongly from the bottom might be an advantage in certain situations.