Full Suspension Fat Bikes!

[John in CR]

Other than filling preconceived notions about looking good, I thought fat tires on bicycles only advantage was that the tire absorb some of the bumps, making a suspension unnecessary. If you add suspension, then the detriments of a less safe more expensive tire don't make any sense, leaving them only appropriate for a very narrow market (riding on loose sand or snow where the fat tire is an advantage.

 

[WoodlandHills]

How is the wide tire less safe? Doesn't more rubber=larger contact patch=more traction=more safety?

 

[Chalo]

How is the wide tire less safe? Doesn't more rubber=larger contact patch=more traction=more safety?

Fat tires are very safe. The only thing about them that could be described as unsafe is the tendency of some not to right themselves back out of a turn without being forced. In every other respect, they are as safe as any normal tire, if not more.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Fat bikes and fat tires biggest appeal is their sheer Grin Factor: small kids love them and always shout and wave, hikers smile and comment while saying hello, other MTBers wave on the trail, etc. The combination of tractor tires and a spindly bicycle frame is just so incongruous that it puts a smile on people's faces, the fact that it is a very practical, confidence inspiring off-road exploration machine is a bonus.

What's not to like about an eBike that never skids or breaks traction, has a comfortable ride and good range of speed coupled with a 30+ mile range in the mountains.......AND it looks like a moonlander!

 

[tomjasz]

Other than filling preconceived notions about looking good, I thought fat tires on bicycles only advantage was that the tire absorb some of the bumps, making a suspension unnecessary. If you add suspension, then the detriments of a less safe more expensive tire don't make any sense, leaving them only appropriate for a very narrow market (riding on loose sand or snow where the fat tire is an advantage.

If you think it's a narrow market you're not visiting many bike shops. Around here they all have multiple models. Heck Walmart, I'm told but never cross their door, has dozens on the floor here.

 

[Chalo]

Walmart sells fatbikes that suck for the same reason they sell dual suspension bikes that suck, or fixed gear bikes that suck. These things play well to the cheap seats.

 

[speedmd]

Try riding down a steep mountain trail with loose gravel / rutted hard pack ground mixed with large loose rocks, roots and all other naturally forming garbage at 30 + MPH. The same test with glare ice covering the trail with randomly spaced pockets of softer snow drifts on it with studded tires. Anyone that has tried something like this with 26er- 29er and fatty understands why fat will be here for some time to come. Suspension for high speeds is just that much better.

 

[MadRhino]

Illegality should be about, and only about, what is a prejudice or harm to others. If that was, the book of laws would be much smaller and the law would be much closer to be real justice. Right now, the major part of the law is a tax on freedom, or an expression of subjective morality.

Back to the subject of the post: Fat bikes are not a good ride out of their specific purpose, but a good suspension does make them more versatile.

I'm running a 4.25" tire at front and a 4" in the back and it's intended purpose is to keep the front wheel from sinking into sand at speed and throwing me over the handlebars. It is a very good ride for its specific purpose of being suitable for fire roads and trails and most importantly: being a bike my wife wants to ride. It is excellent at that! She has instructed me to "Finish it up and build another for yourself 'cause I'm keeping this one!" And how can that be a Bad Thing....?

A good thing, since you built it to ride exactly where it is at its best. If you were speeding the streets, or aggressively riding the mountain trails, a fat bike would be a poor choice. Then, what I was saying is that if you were going to do multiple usage with it, a suspension would make it better at riding out of its specific intended use.

 

[tomjasz]

Walmart sells fatbikes that suck for the same reason they sell dual suspension bikes that suck, or fixed gear bikes that suck. These things play well to the cheap seats.

The reference was to John commenting on fat bikes having a limited market. In fact, here in the land of 10,000 lakes they are very common. eBikes are rare. I think I own over half the population of eBikes in a city of 27,000.

As to Walmart bikes, I've always been to afraid of building up a fast bike on a Walmart frame. I NEVER and will NEVER put a dollar into the pocket of a Walton. The bikes pop up at other Big Box stores so I could resolve the Walmart issue, but the fact remains I see them as dangerous. 3 LBS I visit won't work on them. Fortunately for the suckers that buy them there is one shop that will repair. Sadly they all ought to go to the shop immediately after purchase. But it looks like many are doing well and having fun, so what do I know...

 

[WoodlandHills]

Shameless plug: Bikes Direct I got my fatty there for $399, I think the eBay price for the wheels and tires is more than that...... Forums are full of BD detractors, some with valid points, but the quality, service and prices cannot be beaten IMHO. If BD wants to send me an 18" grape Gravity Sniper in exchange for my online endorsement, I won't decline.....

 

[spinningmagnets]

While we are debating whether FS fatties "make sense" or not...theres a bunch of guys spending a lot of money on them in Colorado. One of the posts in this Facebook feed seemed to indicate many of them are swapping the tires for 3.0 (scroll down to see pics of FS fatties).

https://www.facebook.com/timberlinecycles/

Timberlinecycles, Team Rider Tucker and the Foes Mixer Series Bikes..
Congradulations Tucker on your DH Colorado State Championship Win and taking the Foes Mixer Series to the Box weekend after weekend.
TC Team Riders weapon of choice..
Foes Enduro Mixer 170mm travel 97er. yeah a 29er wheel at 170 that works...
29.5 lbs with pedals.
This Rig raced everything from Angle Fire NM to all Co. Resorts.
Tucker has trail ridden and raced Enduro/Pro DH events on this plateform, the Foes Mixed Enduro . Thats right . One bike that he can trail ride one weekend , pro enduro/Dh race next weekend and come away with no snap crackle pop sounds or major overhauls needed. The weapon of choice for those that know.

edit: I'm not in the market for a full-sus fattie for myself, but...if someone out there is enjoying his, I don't see any harm in that, do you?

 

[ecycler]

Anybody ordered one of these gravity fatbikes yet? I am thinking a BBSHD to start with would be fun and then when the next exciting high powered hub motor comes out switch the bafang out and get a 19 inch (or larger) moped wheel laced to it and a wide shinko 241 or dirtbike tire.

Very curious to to see what the left side of the drop out looks like up close and the actual BB measurement. I have finished an extremely stout battery pack built into an additive frame bag ready and now very well tested for 250+ battery amps delivery. Maybe this would be my QS273 candidate? Thinking this big though, I am probably asking too much of this frame. When is someone going to make some good dual crown fat bike forks so I don't have to dig up some 10 year old super montsers or make my own?

 

[tomjasz]

FS, crank forward, nirvana.

 

[2old]

ecycler, look at electricfatbike.com --- Karl has converted multiple BD bikes.
WH, late to the game, but I've had three bikes over the years with "magic ratios", that is vertical dropouts with perfect tension when the chain stretched; unfortunately, you need to buy to try; I had the frames already, so if it didn't work, just try something else.

 

[dvdrwsor]

This thread deserves resurrection. I was happy to see it has 64 posts, but sad to see most of them were arguments. My opinion is that if you don't like the concept of fat + suspension, you should go lurk threads that suits you. I can't wait to get my hands on a full suspension fat bike, no matter how illogical may seem, so please stop filling this thread with garbage.

Back on topic. At the time of this post there are a few options out there. Most of them are made in US, including the newest Trek Farley EX (to be released this fall), which I like a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpVqqXdK0nM

Although those are good bikes, they tend to be a little on the expensive side. Add to that shipping and customs fee and they're out of MY reach. So, I'm only interested in Europe made ones, like Maxx Huraxdax or Haibike Full FatSix. I am waiting for others to appear on the market, and the prices to settle a little bit. I'd love a FS fatty from Cube, which is a good quality and cheap (sort of) manufacturer. For anyone interested in converting a slimmer mountain bike, have a look at the Cube Stereo. You can get a new carbon 29 frame for 600 euros ($660) on bike-discount if it's on sale.
I talk about money a lot because I can only afford one, so it has to be the right one.

Many manufacturers of fat bikes in Europe, just not many FS yet. Patience is a virtue, again.

Oh, and don't go the China route. I've spent 2 months, 3-4 hours a day searching the right bike/frame, and talking with different vendors (what a chore that was), and in the end, when I found something as close as to what I wanted, I realized that, although it's cheaper (for single product pick the highest price shown), if I add the sample fee, the shipment fee, the PayPal/Escrow fee, the customs fee (20% from all of the above combined), the price wasn't much lower from the ones manufactured on my continent. Add to that the risk that you get something else that you actually ordered, and enough said. I wish someone told me that when I started searching in Asia.

@ Obiwan007
I really like your project. Is it finalized? Please post more pictures.

 

[WoodlandHills]

I just did the same 20 mile ride on consecutive days, the first day on this:

And the second day on this with a set of knobbys and a 20ah triangle battery installed:


All in all I much preferred the FS fatty over the hardtail with suspension forks. The ride was far smoother, the bike felt planted at speeds at least 3 to 4 mph faster on the descent than the hardtail. They both seemed to climb the same although I could feel the lower cg of the hardtail when making quick steering inputs, it was not much of an advantage overall. I did prefer the 5-speed hub over the 9-speed cluster for its silent operation: I suspect I need to get better at adjusting the shifter to its indexes.....

 

[tomjasz]

It'll come. As soon as someone sees there is a market.


WOW! That gravity is a poor fit, no wonder it's a funky ride! That seat in relation to the bars is a crazy position.

 

[dvdrwsor]

Very nice bikes. How stable are those 2 batteries in curves? Are they mounted just with those 2 zip-ties?

As I said, if there's 10% improvement, I want it

 

[Chalo]

WOW! That gravity is a poor fit, no wonder it's a funky ride! That seat in relation to the bars is a crazy position.

While I'd agree that the bike in question looks like it's too small for its rider, the handlebar height in relation to the seat is quite normal for recreational MTB riders.

Now in my late forties and in no hurry, I usually have my bars between level with the seat and four inches above the seat. But when I was twenty, I used flat bars placed seven to eight inches below saddle level. Partly that was to compensate for a too-short cockpit length, but also to get my back flat for aero efficiency and to engage my glutes for power.

It's a normal layout for time trial bikes.

 

[WoodlandHills]

It'll come. As soon as someone sees there is a market.


WOW! That gravity is a poor fit, no wonder it's a funky ride! That seat in relation to the bars is a crazy position.

It is up so high to fit into my workstand: the clamp grips the seat tube, I lower it to ride.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Very nice bikes. How stable are those 2 batteries in curves? Are they mounted just with those 2 zip-ties?

As I said, if there's 10% improvement, I want it

What zip ties? They use the standard Shark mounts with three rivnuts on the top pack and four on the lower one. There is zero movement in any direction neither in curves or when landing.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I have read from experienced off roaders that a narrower front tire "digs in" better, where a fat tire might slide some. So, I guess it would depend on your riding style and the type of trails you run on. On asphalt, I like the grip of a wider tire (no knobbiesm smooth tread)

I ride on the streets, and right now, I am wearing out the stock 3.5 inch tires (smooth tread). The handling isn't bad, but I am looking forward to trying out a 3.0 inch tire when they wear out. I don't have suspension, other than my sprung seatpost.

 

[WoodlandHills]

The hardtail has a 26x4.00 and a 26x4.25 and I actually prefer the wider tire up front. It steers a tiny bit heavier, but I feel it grips better than the narrower tire. It's mostly hard pan with a surface of gravel and sand so they slip and slid a bit anyway and I've never lacked for forward drive and grip! The FS has 4.8s front and back and really seems to hang in there, especially on the higher speed off-camber curves with a dusting of sand (more than a few of those out here).

 

[MI_Joe]

Not sure if it would make for a good conversion, but this one sure looks nice (< 26 lbs):

http://www.lamerecycles.com/#!dopamine-fs-fat-bike/q2noe

 

[WoodlandHills]

Unless you use a hub motor, the drive will hang down like an udder. Lots of cool new bikes have the downtube meeting the BB at the front and not at the top which makes them difficult to convert.