GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Well, I finaly have a battery issue in build #1 , I am using 2ea 5 cell and 1ea 4 cell Turnigy 5000 mah 25c batteries is series and two of these packs parallal for 14s 2p 10ah. I have been balance charging these individually every 5 cycles and they have all been very close in cell voltage at the start of charging. this time however one of the parallal packs had all three individual packs puffed while the other pack is still fine ? Seems odd to me. I have never run this system below 30% capacity and have been well below 50% of the rated "C" discharge. On bike #2 I am using two seperate 14s packs which I like better since I can run the first to LVC and then switch to the second for the return trip with the bonus of having full voltage again halfway thru the ride.
So, it seems there may be an issue with simply plugging these turnigy packs together in series and then using a parallel harness to obtain 14s 2p but I cant get my head around why this might be? Also the puffed packs individual cells read the same voltage as the non puffed pack cells before charging, I did not try to charge the puffed packs.
I suppose its time I built a balance harness to balance charge these as one pack together and I am going to split the pack as I did in the second bike, I need to anyway unless I purchase all the packs needed to build an entire new battery.
Thoughts on this anyone ?

 
bee said:
Anyone got a source for the new chain reduction motor/reduction assembly, or just the motor? GNGebike.com is no longer selling just the motors apparently, and we have to buy their controller and crappy bottom bracket to get the motor.
Click to expand...

I'm going to be importing the standard GNG sized motor into the US by the pallet. I will be sea freighting those to get the cost down. They come with the helical gear spindle that all of these motors are manufactured with for tricycle use. I'm going to be offering the motors with custom lathe turned 12mm output shafts for either sprocket or pulley. I'm also looking into putting in thermostats and upgraded phase wires in while I have the case open.

I've found another source for the Big Block and supposedly they actually have them. The weight of these '1100 watt' wide bodys is 4.3 kg compared to 2.7 kg for the standard GNG size. The end cases are identical. I'm hoping that most of that additional weight is huge rotor and stator. There is room in the wider case for the stator to be up to twice the width of the '500 watt' model.
 
I have a few samples coming also. Will let you know when they are here. Standard trike stuff will be great for power upgrades. Hopefully we can get some custom made stuff (from a quality manufacturer) in small quantities at some point so we are not dealing with all the variability in the spot/ middle man market.

BTW a 10mm shaft works out best for smaller 25 chain sprockets. I know it seems small, to me also, but the 12 tooth is tiny.
 
Hi spinningmagnets

12mm will lock you into to bigger sprockets / pulleys and less reduction, causing you to most likely be out of "pedal with" range. At least what I have been able to find for stock sprockets. running 60 and 75 volts will be even much worse. You can turn down / bore to anything you need certainly, but for 48volt and higher, you need more reduction than stock if you want to pedal along at higher power levels/speeds. If you just on for the ride then it won't matter. The 25 pitch seems perfect for the primary side. 219 looks v. good also, but no experience with it and most of the stuff is pricey.

Let me know you have a few of those thermal sensors you can spare. Need to get a CA also so I can see what is going on.

cheers
 
I like the idea of a 12mm standard but that is clearly difficult for #25 where the 12T-14T sprocket bores all seem to be 10mm or even 8mm. I can turn the shaft down to 10mm or 8mm if there is enough demand.

A 12 tooth 219 is available with a 3/4" bore. It would be simple to make a 12mm adapter to fit those. You could say that 219 is overkill for the primary side but that means reliability and long life. If I offer a chain primary kit in addition to the belt primary I'm going to make it a 219.
 
I got 8 and 10mm on my #25 converted GNG:s motor shaft. The 12t 8mm got several months of 100v abuse. It still seems to be in ok condition. I belive a protection cover is the most important for longeivity.

About noise and chain:
One cool option when going high power on this motor is a funny stealth mode: Put in one of the smaller coggs in the cassette and Cruise thru the city lanes. Because of the high torque of the GNG it's almost nothing to hear from reduction/motor when at really low rpm.
 
Hi E-Norco

Is that a 13 or 14T sprocket. Did you go with a through "drift" pin to hold it on the shaft. The little 12T would not allow a hole as big without leaving a paper thin section holding it on.

Pinion type sprocket may be a option for some if more reduction/ compact setup is needed.

$(KGrHqZHJFIE88e5UQNBBP,V10sBb!~~60_35.JPG
 
Christerjung
About noise and chain:
One cool option when going high power on this motor is a funny stealth mode: Put in one of the smaller coggs in the cassette and Cruise thru the city lanes. Because of the high torque of the GNG it's almost nothing to hear from reduction/motor when at really low rpm.
Click to expand...

This is also the case with other middrives like the cyclone. If you run the bike in its hardest gear, and throttle the motor to low speed ~20% throttle i.e not full throttle to burn it out !, brushless motors make maximum torque at low RPM. So you can cruise around nearly silently at descent speeds but in LOW RPM high torque mode even with a cyclone kit. High RPM is what makes the cyclones and GNG's noisy. For this to work the drivetrain has to be strong and not have plastic teeth, i.e you cannot do this with most plastic geared mid drive hub motors as you would strip the teeth. Also a belt drive may strip the teeth also , only chain or gearbox would be strong enough to run high load low RPM super stealth mode. Also the chain will stretch and fail a lot sooner then a gearbox would, if you do this often.
 
Denisesewa said:
Well, I finaly have a battery issue in build #1 , I am using 2ea 5 cell and 1ea 4 cell Turnigy 5000 mah 25c batteries is series and two of these packs parallal for 14s 2p 10ah. I have been balance charging these individually every 5 cycles and they have all been very close in cell voltage at the start of charging. this time however one of the parallal packs had all three individual packs puffed while the other pack is still fine ? Seems odd to me. I have never run this system below 30% capacity and have been well below 50% of the rated "C" discharge. On bike #2 I am using two seperate 14s packs which I like better since I can run the first to LVC and then switch to the second for the return trip with the bonus of having full voltage again halfway thru the ride.
So, it seems there may be an issue with simply plugging these turnigy packs together in series and then using a parallel harness to obtain 14s 2p but I cant get my head around why this might be? Also the puffed packs individual cells read the same voltage as the non puffed pack cells before charging, I did not try to charge the puffed packs.
I suppose its time I built a balance harness to balance charge these as one pack together and I am going to split the pack as I did in the second bike, I need to anyway unless I purchase all the packs needed to build an entire new battery.
Thoughts on this anyone ?
Click to expand...

I run the same batteries, except at 18 cells, so i use 3 of these in series, I usually have 2 packs of 3 on my bike, sometimes 3 packs for 9 batteries total. I also connect them in parallel at the end only, to obtain 10 or 15 AH. I have never had any issues just because they are connected. I have gone through many Turnigy batteries, and you sometimes get some that go on you sooner than they should. They are still worth it though.

If your charger has the function, check the internal cell resistances on those puffed packs. That is what usually goes first, you won't notice a voltage drop. If your charger doesn't have the test function, one way to tell is it resists AMPs during charging. I charge these sometimes at 10 and even 15 AMPs each when I'm in a rush. And when a pack's internal resistance is too high, my charger won't even climb to those higher amps but stay at lower amps.

I hope that helps.

Wishes
 
what would be cool...is some kind of variated trans. Such as in mopeds and scooters...CVT. Make the gng motor variate somehow to the rear wheel....Endless gearing, would probly do 40mph , and have crazy torque, and reliability...
 
I have been thinking about how to adapt one of these transmissions:

http://scooter.wikia.com/wiki/Evo_two_speed_transmission

Or the Peugeot 103 CVT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HGb0PxiyF3Y#t=41
 
There's a small hole in the motor that only needed to be widened a little bit for my 10k NTC thermistor. A 10k glass thermistor should fit without any mods.



Cover the thermistor liberally in epoxy to improve thermal transfer to it and get faster readings:



I also installed some 10ga phase wires:



12ga wire would fit better, and is probably sufficient.

Does anyone remember which wire is which :p
 
I can understand the desire for lots of reduction if using 48V on a commuter, because you have the opportunity to pedal along on fairly smooth streets. Because of this, denisesewa has shown how to easily turn the stock shaft down to 10mm, so builders can purchase #25 sprockets that already have a 10mm bore.

The main demographic for the upgraded kit are off-road riders, and top-speeds can be lowered by switching to a smaller chainring and a larger rear gear-cluster. It's my understanding that most of the off-road guys don't care as much about being able to pedal along, and the use of #219 on the primary is apparently seen as a desireable upgrade in quality and longevity.

On a similar note, LightningRods has mentioned that several posters expressed interest in an upgraded bracket set for the Gen-2 as a street commuter, and now that he has them finished and available, their sales have been less than expected. So, as far the choice between 10mm/12mm and #25/#219, he has to go where-ever the paying customers lead. Rather than stock a few dozen 10mm shafts, it's easier to stock several dozen 12mm, and then turn one of them down for the occasional customer who asks for that.
 
Hi spinningmagnets

Agree this is a great thread. Thanks or the details on the thermistor. Will get them installed.

219 chain small sprockets are not very common. Most have clutches attached :p If you want bullet proof and don't care about matching cadence, consider the #35 chain which is very common/ low cost state side and pitch is still relatively compact. Here a half inch shaft would also be a good spindle size if you are considering the #35 stuff.

I like the two speed kart setup that bee linked also. Will do it with chain on hand for starters.

Started accumulating the parts to make one. Will see if I can fit it in for a test if time allows.

cheers
 
yes, I was putting 7000w into the motor before I fried the controller by melting the phase wires together :)

I should have my new 18fet Lyen in a day or two and will be able to do some saner tests with the temperature cutoff on the CA.

Meanwhile, I've been hanging out with local e-bike guru MadRhino and he suggested that I epoxy my broken GNG cover back together.









Motor spins well, we'll see if it'll hold while riding! I sealed it up with permatex to make it waterproof as well.

Still looking for a motor from the new GNG kit, Jon Chan doesn't want to sell them separate anymore :(

This kit is still a little mysterious to me, who is manufacturing them? There are some variations between kits Jon sells on gngebike.com and the kits on taobao (some of them come with different throttles or PAS), which leads me to believe that we can probably buy just the motor if we can track down the manufacturer or a reseller that is more flexible than Jon.
 
it's a blast at 7000w, the power wheelies are a lot of fun to ride.

Would be nice to get some of the larger motors to see if we can fit them onto a bike.

This motor would be great with some water cooling so it can do longer peaks at 7000w.

I'm going to see if I can get a group of locals to rent the dyno for an hour to do a cromotor/crystalyte/gng shootout :)
 
bee said:
yes, I was putting 7000w into the motor before I fried the controller by melting the phase wires together :)

Meanwhile, I've been hanging out with local e-bike guru MadRhino and he suggested that I epoxy my broken GNG cover back together.

.
Click to expand...
There are many types of epoxy , even JB weld gets soft at high temps , if what you used is the typical hardware store two part it wont take much heat.
If it were me I'd bridge over that area with another plate secured by the case screws. since the broken peice fits fairly well it wont rotate and with a plate it wouldnt fall out and cant fall in.
Just a thought.
 
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