Has anyone laced a 5304 to an Alex Supra BH 26" 36h DH Rim?

[Floont]

Has anyone laced an x5304 to an Alex Supra BH 26" 36h DH Rim using 12g spokes?

Or anything close to it?

I need a VERY strong rim for hitting curbs and stairs head-on under power. My tires are Maxxis Hookworms on a full suspension Mongoose and should be able to take it.

Thanks!

 

[NeilP]

Have just looked at the profile and I would say leave it alone on a big hub like a 5304.

I used a Mavic EX721 which is a similar V profile rim. It is do able but easier if you go for a rim that has a Flat profile and therefore a bigger ERD


Something like the Alex DX32
http://www.alexrims.com/product_detail.asp?btn=3&cat=3&id=82

although that does look like very little bead on that rim

maybe that is a better choice
the Alex DM24

 

[Floont]

...maybe that is a better choice
the Alex DM24

Now THAT, I like. Superior strength and a flat profile. I think I'm gonna go with that one.

Thanks!

 

[Zoot Katz]

Le Béte just got a new front wheel with the DM 24 laced to a Sturmey Archer 90 mm drum brake.
I demanded a silver finish, eyeleted, double wall rim to fit the Big Apple 2.3'' tire.
The wheel builder got me the Alex.
When it comes time to re build the 5304 I'll get another one to match.

Alex says the ERD is 395 for the DM 24.
According to Justin's spoke calculator the length would be 93.6 mm for a 1X cross pattern on the 5300.

 

[NeilP]

That sounds like a 20 inch wheel ? is that correct?

I think I would actually go for the DX rim Still double walled, but a few mm wider for a bigger tyre
Am tempted to order one and the spokes ASAP, so I have one in stock ready for the next incident

 

[NeilP]

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/tires-and-wheels/rim/sun-ringle/rhyno-lite-xl/prd_413349_139crx.aspx

Sunringle Rhyno Lite is another in similar spec

 

[Chalo]

The Alex DM24 is the strongest 26" rim in its price range. ($25 and under)

The Sun Mammoth (if you can still find one) is taller in cross-section and a little heavier. The taller cross-section makes it stiffer and more resistant to flat-spotting under heavy impacts.

The Velocity Psycho is heavier yet, but much more expensive than the two mentioned above.

Other out-of-production rims to look for are the Alex Supra E (probably the heaviest and strongest MTB rim ever made, but uncommon in that diameter) and the Atomlab Trail Pimp (which was never common in any diameter).

If your full suspension Mongoose is a department store bike, you will trash it quickly by hitting curbs or steps at speed. Those bikes are cheap toys wearing the costume of off-road machines. In any case, for you to ride the way you describe, you'll need at least as much suspension travel at both ends as the height of the curbs or steps you intend to tackle.

 

[NeilP]

http://www.everybicycletire.com/shopping/pc-1777-24-velocity-psycho-rim.aspx

off set drillings too, so that will affect spoke length

 

[oldhaq]

I've just recently laced a HT35 into a 24" DX32 rim with 12G spokes.
I'm very happy with it, they definitely look the part and are 39mm wide (not 32mm as above). Taken over 2' jumps ok, couldn't really say how it is head on over kerbs cos I bunny-hop or lift the front then rear quickly as I go over them.
The eyelets were too small for the 12G nipples, tried drilling first but took ages to do just a few and some eyelets began to spin.
$25 9901 Dremel tungsten carbide cutter tip made short work of it though.

 

[Chalo]

I've just recently laced a HT35 into a 24" DX32 rim with 12G spokes.
I'm very happy with it, they definitely look the part and are 39mm wide (not 32mm as above).

The DX32 is wider and flatter than the DM24 or Psycho, so it gives better support for fat tires but may in turn be easier to flat-spot. The weight of the DX32 is in between that of the DM24 (lighter) and Psycho (heavier), so its gross strength is likely to be in between as well.

A triangular rim cross-section like that of the Velocity Cliffhanger is structurally better than a flat rectangle like the rims under discussion, but there are no triangular rims in the same weight class as these three. The Velocity Chukker is close, at 600g claimed weight, and very strong, but its narrower 24mm width suits a different range of tire sizes and pressures.

Chalo

 

[NeilP]

The problem with the triangular or V -profile rims when lacing on to a Xlyte 5 series motor is the ERD...yes it can be done..and many people have, so really no reason not to do it...but it does make the job harder and does put more of a bend in the spokes where the nipple exits the rim. A flatter profile rim, allows longer spokes and slightly less of a bend on the spoke.

I have a v-profile rim..the Mavic EX721 and a mate flat spotted it the other day, so they are not immune...but having a full bounce frame will help.

 

[Chalo]

The cure for too much angle at the rim insertion is fewer crossings. No Xlyte motor should have more than one spoke crossing per spoke.

If 12ga spoke nipples are too fat to gimbal into line with the spokes at cross-one angles, that's a good reason to use a more appropriately sized spoke (or drill the rim holes a little larger).

Chalo

 

[NeilP]

With a 5304 you will only get 1 crossing anyway, and even with the rim holes drilled out to remove the eyelets, you still get enough angle to cause noticeable bend.

Trouble is if you use a smaller spoke, then you have problems at the hub end as the hub is drilled to take the bigger spokes...OK, so you can use spoke washers on the heads, but I do not like the idea of using smaller spokes that 12g if you are perhaps pushing 2, 3 or more kW though the motor.


A bigger erd jsut hleps a bit...not much I admit...but any help is better than none..

or you go for a motorcycle rim that has angled holes in the rim

 

[Floont]

Thanks for the advice guys!!!

I purchased an Alex DM24 with 36 holes (to match the 36 holes in my new 5304). JohnRob has agreed to lace it for a $100.

I gotta learn how to lace these things myself...

 

[Chalo]

I purchased an Alex DM24 with 36 holes (to match the 36 holes in my new 5304). JohnRob has agreed to lace it for a $100.

I gotta learn how to lace these things myself...

There's a good book for that.
http://www.amazon.com/Bicycle-Wheel-3rd-Jobst-Brandt/dp/0960723668

At my shop (and we are pretty bad about underpricing labor), we build wheels for $40 plus parts. High quality straight gauge spokes run $0.75 to $1.00 apiece. We don't charge extra for things that we probably should charge extra for, like 20-something pound hubs or deep section rims.

If John Rob is including special gauge spokes and drilling out the rim in his price, then it's a good price.

Chalo

 

[Floont]

Thanks for the subsequent comments.

After further review, I bought the Alex Supra BH 26" rim because I read a few reviews by folks who said it was "Bombproof"

 

[Emoto]

The Alex DM24 is the strongest 26" rim in its price range. ($25 and under)

Hi Chalo
Im about to order a alex 26" DM24 disc rim can you tell me which spoke size will fit without drilling/ modding- 13g?

Thanks

 

[Chalo]

The Alex DM24 is the strongest 26" rim in its price range. ($25 and under)

Hi Chalo
Im about to order a alex 26" DM24 disc rim can you tell me which spoke size will fit without drilling/ modding- 13g?

13ga nipples fit in any rim I have tried them in. However, the fatter the nipp, the less it can tilt before hitting its limit. With a large diameter hub like a hub motor, that can mean the difference between having a kink at the rim end or not. In my experience, spokes break at the thread when they are kinked at the nipple.

To get the best out of an eyeleted rim (like most examples of the DM24 I have seen), a 13/14ga single butted spoke would be best if you're trying to maximize elbow strength or fill up a large hub hole. But in practice, an even thinner spoke may be more reliable overall, with less breakage and less loosening.

Weinmann makes a clone rim-- almost exactly the same size and shape as the Alex DM24-- called DM30. The Weinmann DM30 has no eyelets, and it comes in a version drilled for 12ga spokes. It's no more expensive than the Alex rim, but the finish quality and uniformity is not quite as nice.

BUT, the only reason to use 12ga spokes in a bike wheel is because you're using a motorcycle hub or something else with similarly huge holes. Even then, it would probably be a good idea to use washers, nested if necessary, to support a thinner spoke. See liveforphysics's and many other worthy comments in this thread: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40615

Chalo

 

[Emoto]

Thanks Chalo
I get it ill stick with the Dm24 easiest for me and 13g/14g spokes, so 12g's are over engineering.[flex" tree in the wind tech" is best approach]
When i build it [ first time for me ] ill see what the contact angle is with the rim and pos take out the eyelet .

 

[John Bozi]

Oldhaq and Chalo,

I am about to buy spokes for my very small 19" rim with big hub 4065. IT will be radial.

My choices are as Chalo said 13/14 or as with Oldhaq getting rid of the eyelets.

13/14 I wonder about the fatigue at the hub hole
12 will removing eyelets weaken at the rim hole

13/14 will be easier but I don't know anyone running them with big crystalyte hubs. I know many have drilled out the eyelets for the 12g.