Hilleater ebikes vancouver on this forum?

[whatever]

Not sure if hilleater ebikes vancouver watch this forum? but I found some info they posted on an old phylion 36v pack rather helpful, just a shout out to them for keeping their old info on the net, this is the info I found useful phylion 36v old prism cells pack
I got a couple of old phyliion packs here trying to see if they are still useable, they still have decent voltage sourced from local recycle centre.

 

[Hillhater]

A few years back, I rebuilt a similar 10ah Phylion pack which was low on range/capacity.
But several of the cells were bloated ( made removing them from the pack hard !) , and i could not source similar replacements.
I ended up rebuilding with pouch cells (12 ah) .
Not ideal, but they worked well.
Good luck with your efforts !.
( No connection in the names by the way!)

 

[whatever]

Yes I have same issue, I knocked the cells out today and dismantled the pack, same deal swollen cells, the most swollen cell still had a voltage of 3.38volts. So I'm doing a little experiment with degassing the swollen cells. A very well made pack I must say.
I'm just charging some cells that I degassed and pushed back into normal shape, the most swollen one I actually used a hammer to flatten the cells back together, was expecting a thermal event, but none occured and cells went very nicely back into compact form.
I have a bit of an idea:
I realise the cells wont be like new, but might have some useable ahr. Once the pressure release cap is punctured the hydrogen, hydrogen fluoride and whatever else escapes, but oxygen goes into the cell, not good for longevity.
So the idea is: once the cell is used it will produce some more of these gases and allowing them to vent will get rid of them, but also will push out the oxygen........thats a good thing.
How to do that simply: put a thin rubber membrane over the vent hole, and put a tiny hole with pinhead or similar tiny thing.
That will stop oxygen entering but will let out the nasties, fortuitously the packs have some very nice rubber material with sticky backing that I will use for this purpose.
Will rubber react with whatever gases are in there..........probably a bit, maybe alot..........I dont know.
Lots of reasons not to do this, but what the hell. I think I will do a writeup on the teardown and experiments if I dont burn down the neighbourhood in the process.

 

[amberwolf]

actually used a hammer to flatten the cells back together

Remind me to stay far far away from any battery you have any contact with.

 

[whatever]

Yes there is risk involved sometimes with experimenting, interestingly, that cell did charge up but looses voltage about 0.02volts per day. I dont have issues with experimenting, without risk sometimes you dont move forward.
Most of the cells sit at 3.95v or so, the hammered one I charged it up to 3.87v from about 3.2 or so volts, and stopped there just to see if it would be stable or short out. Its stable with the voltage leaking away too fast to be useable.
It appears thus far the hammering the cell flat might not have shorted the plastic membrane between layers, which I think is rather interesting that you can do that, I was expecting a short circuit internally. I dont advise anyone to try this due to the inherent risks of thermal event. I've been messing with cells for a very long time. Its a calculated risk in safe environment.
Another interesting experiment was to fill in the hole I had drilled to let out the gases. I used baking soda and superglue, superglue alone will seep into the cell ( hole is only tiny maybe 1mm dia), but puting a bit of baking soda in the hole then applying the super glue it goes hard immediately and no ill effects inside the cell, no ill effects that are noticeable as yet.

 

[Hillhater]

….interestingly, that cell did charge up but looses voltage about 0.02volts per day. I dont have issues with experimenting, without risk sometimes you dont move forward.
Most of the cells sit at 3.95v or so, the hammered one I charged it up to 3.87v from about 3.2 or so volts, and stopped there just to see if it would be stable or short out. Its stable with the voltage leaking away too fast to be useable.

I am confused ?.. if the cell charged ok, and loses 0.02v per day,…..why do you say. ….“Its stable with the voltage leaking away too fast to be useable.”…..?
0.02 v per day would seem to be no problem if the pack still has its ballance circuit and is used regularly !
( accepting that this is just a cheap trial rebuild )
PS next time, instead of hammering, try just laying the cell on a flat surface with another flat heavy weight (2-5kg) on the top.
leave it for a day or two.
The cell should have it own pressure relief valve, but if not, a tiny pin hole should be enough…..elec tape to seal the hole.

 

[whatever]

As you know a good cell will keep its voltage for a very very long time, 0.02v per day in my view thats a significant leak of energy, I wouldn't use the pack very often ( its 36v volt pack I have a 36v trike which might get used once a week at most).
I would prefer a pack where I"m not concerned with it sitting for long periods, hence 0.02v per day is too much loss to be useable in my case, for daily use, yes probably no issue at all.
The pack has 10 cells, 9 which hold voltage no issues, I will replace that cell with something else, probably some panasonic 18650 cells, since I have a few lying around. I'm not sure how many ahr the cells have left in them, I"m guessing maybe 8ahr or so, so 3 lots of 18650 in parallel will do as a replacement cell. The bms will sort out any differences in internal resistance ( amount of amp draw when used will lead to different voltage drop on these replacement cells....as you know!). Then I dont really have to worry about the pack sitting not used for long periods.

I did glue some rubber pads with pin hole over the vent holes, pretty sure that will allow gases out but none in, if I get motivated will do a write up on it, its pretty simple but some 'tricks' to make it work nicely.

yes some pressure over time is better way than hammer method to de-swell a cell. Surprisingly how nicely than can go back into original shape. ( cant post any pics at the mo, waiting on new memory car adapter).

 

[leffex]

Yeah that sounded a little wicked but what do we do in the name of science (research cells in our blood)

Hammer it harder if it doesn't losen up.

I've come across many of these packs either white or black with smal heatsink folds on the upper part including a 2-pin output connector in the rear.

As they swell I just accepted them as they were and also the cells I had no use of.

I estiamate a very low capacity for their use in second life. People with these bikes rode very hard it seems.