Loaded Tesseract Carbon Single VESC 6355 10S4P

[whitepony]

So what happens when board flexes ?,....the middle of board touches and those rubber spacers at the ends Compress to compensate ?? ....suprised there was enough room for them .

when the board flexes, the underside middle region of the board will apply some pressure on the battery (protected by thin felt sheet), the battery will direct that into the case (which is stiff and cannot flex = the battery cannot flex), which then extends the rubber tubes a little to give the board more room.

the rubber tubes extend quite easily, its hardly affecting board flex at all. they come in thicker versions too, like 1.5 x 2cm which are quite a bit harder to extend. alone to protect the battery, its needed that they can extend without much force.

*edit: pic for clarity

 

[randyc1]

So what happens when board flexes ?,....the middle of board touches and those rubber spacers at the ends Compress to compensate ?? ....suprised there was enough room for them .

when the board flexes, the underside middle region of the board will apply some pressure on the battery (protected by thin felt sheet), the battery will direct that into the case (which is stiff and cannot flex = the battery cannot flex), which then extends the rubber tubes a little to give the board more room.

the rubber tubes extend quite easily, its hardly affecting board flex at all. they come in thicker versions too, like 1.5 x 2cm which are quite a bit harder to extend. alone to protect the battery, its needed that they can extend without much force.

*edit: pic for clarity

Nice diagram !,.... that's exactly what i thought. Wonder if the underboard hits the battery first or the Alum Angle's edge ?

...I think i will try your enclosure on my board !

 

[whitepony]

Nice diagram !,.... that's exactly what i thought. Wonder if the underboard hits the battery first or the Alum Angle's edge ?

it hits the battery! the aluminum profiles are 2cm high, but starting with a 0.2cm offset (width of the profiles). the battery is ideally only 1.8cm high, but shrink tube & co boosts that easily to 2cm. so in the end the battery is slightly taller than the sides of the case. I dont think its an issues, because the board applies force on the battery on a fairly large surface at the same time and the resistance of the 4 rubber tubes isnt very high. alone the weight of the whole package is extending the rubber tubes probably by 1-2mm. the case isnt dangling, but its also not strongly bound to the board with the 1cm diameter tubes. just the right amount of "loose" imo to dampen vibrations and avoid rattling. my topspeed build has the same case setup and the board is flexing a lot stronger - after about 500km neither the battery, nor the shrink tube showed any signs of stress or wear.

 

[randyc1]

Would you happen to have a Link for the rubber dampers ?,.. been looking but find only same Diameter as Height,2cm x 2cm , cant find 1cm x 2 cm.

 

[whitepony]

click

 

[randyc1]

Thank you whitepony !

That link was to Expensive to have shipped here in Canada $44.00 for 4

But your link still helped me very find similar dampers !

Also the Exchange rate for Canadian Money is killing me, have to add 44% for final Can price !!

 

[Vulthor]

Hi Whiteponey.

As always, very impressive work especially battery pack and case.

So finally what's the total weight?

Wish you can ride it soon!

 

[whitepony]

i have nothing available to weight it sadly, will ask around colleagues today. its quite a bit lighter than the topspeed, but the loaded isnt a superlight board and the battery is still comparably large & heavy. think everything else is as compact, light and small as it gets. before spring ill have a number!

 

[whitepony]

ha haa, gave it a test run because the streets were mostly dry with a few slightly wet patches - patience isnt really my strong side. 2 things to note:

* very smooth nunchuck control, but the PID cruise control isnt working well - I will have to tune the parameters really. got velocity swinging around my target velocity. anyone got good input for a 63mm single drive & 80kg driver? its probably the advanced motor configuration PID values?

* running a loose 9mm belt cause I like free coasting and the wheel locked on full braking (just like I know from my topspeed). on full throttle it broke loose when I carved with weight to the opposite side of the drive wheel ... and thats only with 40A. Im really not sure whats the fuss about 9mm vs 15mm - you guys made it sound as if 9mm is terrible and 15mm is a must. I just dont see it at all. :|


love the tesseract, its just a great agile board - with and without a motor

 

[torqueboards]

I think more so it's riders who are about 180+ lbs on a single motor going downhill. Perhaps with the belt alignment not aligned properly. The belts will wear out quickly.

Flat ground I doubt it's an issue.

 

[WeeChumlee]

Hi whitepony

For me it was really the breaking issue. I either had to keep the 9mm belt real tight, with associated drag, or the belt would slip under heavy breaking.
The change from 9mm to 15mm did make a great difference in my case. This though is also because I am a lard ass and have a crappy ESC on that board that has a pretty digital break - all or nothing.
May not be an issue with a decent ESC and a lighter load.

Raining, again, here.

I will be in Germany 2nd week of Feb. Hope for a dry couple of days as my board will be going with me.

 

[whitepony]

I was able to ride about 30min last night when I had dry road for once (tonight will work again I think ), didnt have any belt slip. just ride anticipatory and youll never run into that issue imo. Im also running my belt quite loose and I can hardly notice the motor/belt drag when coasting. not sure if the VESC is helping there with some support, its nearly unreal how the coasting is so close to authentic raw board coasting.

2 things:

* I managed to beat the cruise control oscillations for now! removed the integral part of the speed control (KI) and left the proportional part (KP) untouched (advanced motor tab). no more oscillations around my target velocity, but now I dont really reach my target velocity anymore, i.e. if I coast with some velocity, press cruise control and a small slope comes up, Ill start going slower. This is no suprise, since thats what the integral part is made for. Sadly I dont have enough room on my compact case to have a USB-cable dangling outside, so everytime I want to change something, I have to remove the case. awkward, Ill try to fiddle on that with a colleagues VESC who built a bigger case!

* following vedders suggestion here, I yesterday also added a small SMD 2.2uF 16V capacitor piggybacked on the existing one at C18 and could confirm that FOC was working for me now, at least as a living room test. full throttle into full braking -> no more VESC triple red LED signal & reset!

 

[whitepony]

sun was shining today, so I took off from work early and ran the board with case placed ontop of the board to fiddle with the KP and KI values on the fly.

ended up using:

KP: 0.002
KI: 0.002

think default values was KP 0.001 and KI 0.04, I nulled KI and started to increase KP until it started oscillating by overcompensation of control difference -> @KP = 0.005 it definitely reached that point, so I roughly halved the value following wiki PID control parameter guide (actually used 0.002 because that value felt good during testing).
then I started to increase the integral part a little until I felt that I didnt have much of a target velocity offset when going up and down slopes.

if you are running nunchuck vesc and run into these kind of problems, maybe these values can be a good starting point. 63mm motor, 15/36 gearing, 80kg driver weight!

while testing I ran FOC for a while, but I ran into controller issues with it somehow. sometimes ended up with large delay, sometimes with a crashing vesc, wasnt really working out properly for me yet ... at least not always. after switching back to BLCD with the new speed controller values I ran the board for a good hour - dont have anything to complain anymore on the vesc side, even though I wished I had the stealth FOC mode instead of blcd.

I definitely dont regret going single rear! for constant speed carving, there is really no difference between single and dual rear. the main difference is acceleration/braking strength and a wobble when you quickly apply or release torque ... for the benefit of a much cheaper, much simpler and quite a bit lighter setup.

finally managed to weight the board: 7600g. its not superlight, but quite ok considering the fairly heavy tesseract and the large 430Wh battery.

 

[whitepony]

after I nearly screwed up my motor wires by "jumping down a sidewalk -> wires flop down -> get into motor -> ??? -> *explosion*" I just added a small, but pretty good looking detail from leftovers of my topspeed carbon base plate:

its just a little loose, so that the cables can actually move back and forth beneath the carbon plate. to avoid wear, I added a thick shrink tube and I also rounded all edges facing the board by sanding.

 

[randyc1]

I was able to ride about 30min last night when I had dry road for once (tonight will work again I think ), didnt have any belt slip. just ride anticipatory and youll never run into that issue imo. Im also running my belt quite loose and I can hardly notice the motor/belt drag when coasting. not sure if the VESC is helping there with some support, its nearly unreal how the coasting is so close to authentic raw board coasting.

2 things:

* I managed to beat the cruise control oscillations for now! removed the integral part of the speed control (KI) and left the proportional part (KP) untouched (advanced motor tab). no more oscillations around my target velocity, but now I dont really reach my target velocity anymore, i.e. if I coast with some velocity, press cruise control and a small slope comes up, Ill start going slower. This is no suprise, since thats what the integral part is made for. Sadly I dont have enough room on my compact case to have a USB-cable dangling outside, so everytime I want to change something, I have to remove the case. awkward, Ill try to fiddle on that with a colleagues VESC who built a bigger case!

* following vedders suggestion here, I yesterday also added a small SMD 2.2uF 16V capacitor piggybacked on the existing one at C18 and could confirm that FOC was working for me now, at least as a living room test. full throttle into full braking -> no more VESC triple red LED signal & reset!

Wonder if the latest VESC with the Heatsinks come with the (small SMD 2.2uF 16V capacitor) Mod you did ?
And would it be a good idea to have a usb plug on the battery case ?

 

[whitepony]

the vescs with heatsink are those from chaka I guess? you'd have to talk to him, but I think its way too early for hardware changes. the experts are still discussing around that topic and I think its not 100% clear why doubling the capacitor helped in this case: *click*

I just "modded" my vesc cause I just had it on my table anyway and I felt like it could be interesting, trying to solder a 1.6x0.8mm sized SMD capacitor. :lol:

my issues with FOC arent over yet either ... Ill be patient, BLCD works great and someday FOC will too.

 

[randyc1]

How about a USB input integrated into the frame , would that be a good idea?

 

[whitepony]

How about a USB input integrated into the frame , would that be a good idea?

maybe, I mostly didnt know how to cut it into the aluminum frame and I wasnt sure if I wanted all the dirt flying into the port. its probably a better idea to leave a small USB repeater cable hanging out of the case and keep the vesc covered in shrink tube as good as possible incase water enters the case somewhere (condensation, spray, etc).

on the flipside: I think once you dialed in your vesc, you wont really change it all that often. I ran the board 20km today and I couldnt think about a thing I wanted to change! :wink:

 

[chaka]

Nice work whiteponey! What's you body weight? This will be useful information for those debating on the need for wider belts.

 

[whitepony]

Nice work whiteponey! What's you body weight? This will be useful information for those debating on the need for wider belts.

my weight is 80kg, but I think its more of a throttle than a weight issue.

 

[WeeChumlee]

Quite agree on the USB issue. I too thought about building the USB ports into the case but was also worried about water and dirt.
As it is now I have USB cables connected to the VESC and accessible through a leather flap on the case. ( also used as a charging access). Like pony says though, once all is going well one does not need to do much.

 

[chaka]

You could get some covers/plugs. If you lose them they are cheap as chips and easy to replace.

 

[Poweralti]

Is not a good idea install Evolve bluetooth module and the New remote for You New set? Possible?

 

[whitepony]

Is not a good idea install Evolve bluetooth module and the New remote for You New set? Possible?

its probably possible, but evolve doesnt have cruise control 8)

 

[whitepony]

used the dry day for 40km full throttle tesseract carving

* max 41kph
* 36kph average over 25km

battery at these temperature (5°C) and full single motor load lasted about 25km (4.1V/cell -> 3.2V/cell). I think thats quite good actually. same battery on dual motor lasted 30km, but that was usually 25km/h average and around 20°C. my guts tell me under these conditions I would probably get up to 40km with the single motor setup. but cant really tell for sure before spring :wink:

about the 9mm belt: I got now nearly 100km on the clock and the belt is probably worn in a little - its quite loose now, more than before the first drive. I noticed when I wanted to make a short video of full brake wheel locking and when I did that my belt actually slipped haha :lol: