Luke's commuter bicycle. What Non-hub is all about.

[liveforphysics]

Luke, why such strange choice of motors? Agni - twice more powerful and much lighter - 11kg vs. Golden 17 kg; rpm range about the same

- to test encoder? or price-vise?

I have plenty of Agni motors, including silver-brush fitted custom motors, and motors setup and tuned by Cedric himself, and made a couple of Agni bikes. This is simply more power than an Agni is able to achieve, and this is coming from a guy who has run them on 120v with a 1200amp controller and Cedric Lynch doing the dyno tuning himself.

This is the creator of the Agni motor, Cedric Lynch, personally helping me setup my BLDC motor harness. Cedric is such an awesome and unique guy, I have nothing but love, respect, and awe for the man. If he gets a motor to me that can put down more power than what I'm currently laying down without melting in 10seconds, I will very happily swap over to it in a second.

One of my early Agni bikes in action:

[youtube]FJsMDsT8siU[/youtube]

 

[Alan B]

I see my video is doing well there (the first "launch" video). I have a bunch of hi resolution stills from the Marin trip I should get to you sometime.

 

[Kurt]

Luke,
when you get that new smart phone you posted about. I would love to see some G readings and perhaps some acceleration times 0 - 60. There is a ton of free Programs available for smart phones.

Usually loud bikes-cars give the sensation of speed and the quite smooth ones look slow even if they are fast. Your bike is dead quiet and still looks dam fast on camera so must be FAST!

Making the torque at the motor and keeping the gearing Simple is the way to go. It sounds so smooth and quite with just enough zing to remind you its a beast .

Well done

ps, Not to take anything away from your home made bike. But I wonder how that motor-controller combo would go in a 125 - 250 modern light weight aluminium sports bike frame - stripped down? That way you get the frame geometry, tyre selection , brakes and suspension package designed to handle the power. Not to mention it would look nice to . You could most likely fit more battery in the frame to. Yes it would become a motor bike and I understand the benefits of keeping it as a peddle bike but for people looking for a light weight E motorbike it looks like a good option.

Kurt

 

[liveforphysics]

You end up with a TTXGP bike, but you also enable the ability to melt your motor down from sustained high speed aero loads that seldom occur in practice on a bicycle.

 

[mr.electric]

Luke,
Do you have an opinion of the stock golden motor controller for use in a low -mid power set up
http://www.goldenmotor.com/Dimensions-300A.jpg
I imagine it uses hall sensors that come installed in the golden motor.

 

[Kurt]

I guess it just goes to show one advantage of ICE is. Sustained hi power handling.

Kurt

 

[liveforphysics]

Luke,
Do you have an opinion of the stock golden motor controller for use in a low -mid power set up
http://www.goldenmotor.com/Dimensions-300A.jpg
I imagine it uses hall sensors that come installed in the golden motor.

I've got one. It's 6x6 of TO220 package fets (36 fets), with a good layout and good power busing. Crappy caps, and sadly, the control firmware is glitchy and they occasionally just explode.

The Sevcon on this bike is 16 x 6 fets (96 fets), and it's rock solid an reliable, ONCE TUNED. It's like a death in the family to get tuned, it's going to leave you with a week of frowning and restless sleep, and thousands of dollars in labor with an expert dyno tuning your setup to get it to operate. Once you have it operational, it's like stepping into heaven everytime you operate the vehicle.

Which is like exactly backwards of a Kelly, which takes about 20minutes to get everything hooked up and adjusted and tuned, followed by a lifetime of hating all it's glitchy crap performance, ending in it's death at some random moment when you need it most.

 

[Kiwi]

I haven't laughed out loud for a while, but the first scene cracked me up.
Nothing like a validating a disclaimer.

..."you know this bike is dangerous"...."yes".....

 

[mr.electric]

Wow good explanation.
I just heard the Golden motor and mars motor are almost exactly the same.
I also heard the mars motor will have an encoder version very soon, some samples already shipped.
Since mars and golden are in direct competition golden will probably come with an encoder sooner or later as well.
If one person figured out the settings for a certain model golden motor with a certain model sevcon would the setting work for another identical motor controller combo?

 

[voicecoils]

Luke, why such strange choice of motors? Agni - twice more powerful and much lighter - 11kg vs. Golden 17 kg; rpm range about the same ...

...
This is the creator of the Agni motor, Cedric Lynch, personally helping me setup my BLDC motor harness. Cedric is such an awesome and unique guy, I have nothing but love, respect, and awe for the man. If he gets a motor to me that can put down more power than what I'm currently laying down without melting in 10seconds, I will very happily swap over to it in a second.

Nice to see your bike continue to evolve, looks like heaps of fun! Precise motor control over full RPM range and any motor loading seems to still be just out of reach for most of us.

Can you recap your dyno results for the HPM-10KW and Agni 95R? What peak and continuous power outputs are realistically achievable?

Jozz has posted some preliminary dyno results for the Agni 111RDR and thinks 15kW cont. output will be possible. I wonder if it could meet the performance you're getting from your current setup. They weigh 11.9kg, a bit more then the 95R due to thicker magnets. For high power ebikes (or low power e-motos) brushed motor setups still offer appealing simplicity for DIY builders.

Any thoughts?

 

[liveforphysics]

30 mins ago, we just turned up the power 19%. This was in response to noticing my new very strong rear wheel build wasn't having any of the spokes loosen up after some hard thrashing, the controller staying cool, the batteries staying cool, and the motor temp sensor auto-protection working well. It's funny to think we made some small tuning changes, and increased the power at the wheel beyond what the complete saturation of almost all other big ebike motors are even capable of providing.

 

[hydro-one]

Top
Re: Luke's commuter bicycle. What Non-hub is all about.

Postby Kurt » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:08 pm
I guess it just goes to show one advantage of ICE is. Sustained hi power handling.

Kurt


Well did he not say he had a watercooled motor on the shelf? Mabye that would fit the bill eh guys?


BTW GrEAtJob!!!I wana hear and see this thing at senventy nine percent power!!!!!!!!!!!!

mike

 

[hydro-one]

PS This kind of bike might actually sell !!!

 

[HumboldtRc]

If one person figured out the settings for a certain model golden motor with a certain model sevcon would the setting work for another identical motor controller combo?

That's what I was wondering? Why can't we just set up the same motor and same encoder, indentically, and then just copy all the settings...??? It should work fine I would think. Soon we will be able to buy a Zero with a controller set up for their motor, which then we could open source the settings for the controller. (What if you bought a zero and the controller fried for some reason and you wanted to replace it yourself, you would need to have a copy of the facotory settings to load on the new controller...)

 

[liveforphysics]

Took it for a spin with the increased power.

Did a power wheelie for about 100yds, touching the wheel down above 60mph.

Feels good.

 

[Doctorbass]

Luke, Thanks for all these pics... But....

I think to be fair and transparent comparaison between hub and non hub ebike, you must take a video of these dyno test... just like you did with the hub..

Otherwise... filming a hub motor melting and catching in fire on a dyno after abuse is not fair in comparaison with your actual motor test since it's only pics we get of these test on teh dyno

We want to hear that sound out of this non hub ebike!! ON THE DYNO TOO 8)

cmon! :wink:

Doc

 

[Arlo1]

If one person figured out the settings for a certain model golden motor with a certain model sevcon would the setting work for another identical motor controller combo?

That's what I was wondering? Why can't we just set up the same motor and same encoder, indentically, and then just copy all the settings...??? It should work fine I would think. Soon we will be able to buy a Zero with a controller set up for their motor, which then we could open source the settings for the controller. (What if you bought a zero and the controller fried for some reason and you wanted to replace it yourself, you would need to have a copy of the facotory settings to load on the new controller...)

Thats most likely a job for the authorized dealer and or they will send you a new controller already set up.

 

[Arlo1]

Luke, Thanks for all these pics... But....

I think to be faire and transparent comparaison between hub and non hub ebike, you must take a video of these dyno test... just like you did with the hub..

Otherwise... filming a hub motor melting and catching in fire on a dyno after abuse is not fair in comparaison with your actual motor test since it's only pics we get of these test on teh dyno

We want to hear that sound out of this non hub ebike!! ON THE DYNO TOO 8)

cmon! :wink:

Doc

What he said!!!

 

[liveforphysics]

Wow good explanation.
I just heard the Golden motor and mars motor are almost exactly the same.
I also heard the mars motor will have an encoder version very soon, some samples already shipped.
Since mars and golden are in direct competition golden will probably come with an encoder sooner or later as well.
If one person figured out the settings for a certain model golden motor with a certain model sevcon would the setting work for another identical motor controller combo?

Unfortunately, my golden is an early 1-off prototype custom wind from back when they only had the "48v" version.

If somebody wanted to prep a certain encoder on a golden with the 120v wind (which would be close to my 105v wind), we could program a Sevcon and it would likely work OK without too much retuning.

This is the big size 6 Sevcon though, and at these power levels the motor only has about 30sec of peak output in it before its destroyed. So, trying to put it on something other than a bicycle would mean having a dead motor most likely, unless you turned it down quite a lot, and then you would not need the big 96fet Sevcon, you could use the medium size 42fet version.

 

[Jozzer]

What are you actually getting out at the dyno (both peak, and continuous)? Impressive little motor.

 

[gor.]

Luke, why such strange choice of motors? Agni - twice more powerful and much lighter - 11kg vs. Golden 17 kg; rpm range about the same

- to test encoder? or price-vise?

I have plenty of Agni motors, including silver-brush fitted custom motors, and motors setup and tuned by Cedric himself, and made a couple of Agni bikes. This is simply more power than an Agni is able to achieve, and this is coming from a guy who has run them on 120v with a 1200amp controller and Cedric Lynch doing the dyno tuning himself.

This is the creator of the Agni motor, Cedric Lynch, personally helping me setup my BLDC motor harness. Cedric is such an awesome and unique guy, I have nothing but love, respect, and awe for the man. If he gets a motor to me that can put down more power than what I'm currently laying down without melting in 10seconds, I will very happily swap over to it in a second.

One of my early Agni bikes in action:

how you guys manage to squeeze more power from golden - 18kw peak, 17kg ? peak rating sec-? how far you pushing it?
agni95 - 30 kw, 11kg; torque 0-4800: 29 ft-lbs golgen vs agni - 50 ft-lbs; and agni 30kw peak rating - 5 sec - already, as is ...

 

[pdf]

subscribe

 

[grindz145]

Took it for a spin with the increased power.

Did a power wheelie for about 100yds, touching the wheel down above 60mph.

Feels good.

I can't believe you have that thing geared for 60 on the street. It would be even more brutal if it was geared for 50....but then again you already had the front wheel off the ground then didn't you....

 

[liveforphysics]

Took it for a spin with the increased power.

Did a power wheelie for about 100yds, touching the wheel down above 60mph.

Feels good.

I can't believe you have that thing geared for 60 on the street. It would be even more brutal if it was geared for 50....but then again you already had the front wheel off the ground then didn't you....

Its actually geared for >100mph, and can get there.

 

[Bazaki]

Does that mean that when it is geared for 60mph it is even faster at acceleration ? Or wouldn't that make any difference since you have this enormous torque ?