Mars Electric LLC Axial Flux Motor

so a battery operated floor scrubber ....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Windsor-Powertec-28-Battery-Floor-Scrubber-Sweeper-/310269019205?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483d798445

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tornado-Karcher-BD-530-20-Battery-Floor-Scrubber-/370456768842?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5640f1b14a
 
Well, well,
I'm excited to see Jeremie is back. It wouldn't be the same here without you! :D

But I don't understand the excitement about this motor?!
What makes it so special, compared to a HXT 80-85 for instance?
I understand that axial flux motors have a lot potential, but this one seems to be a pretty heavy workhorse and I doubt it will be easy to make a race horse of it. (Laminations)
I like the 1:5 reduction and would give it a try 'as is' for my 20" recumbent, but for now I'm happy with my 3.3kW hub motor.

-Olaf
BTW, I'm not sure, but the fan inside the motor would take a lot more energy at higher RPMs. The power to RPM relation is x³, right? and noisy too
 
Had to go to the "big" lab today, sorry for the delay. Also wanted to wait to see what John sent Jeremy and our OK to post these items. John stated in an email to me that he did not consider what he sent me proprietary, and with Jeremy's assessment that it is OK to post them, here they are. All other info that I received from John has been posted. Here are the two unique photo's of the rotor. The first one is blurry in the original. All I did was crop and resample for appropriate posting size on this board.View attachment 1


Looking at the solid model to beef up the reduction section, some changes I would have made, would be to use a sealed bearing for item 21, remove the seal item 20 to shorten the stub shaft with the integral gear. This would lessen the overhanging load from the gearset. Machine a pilot on the end of the shaft and index it in a small roller bearing in the housing 14 to near totally eliminate overhanging load deflection on the motor shaft. Shorten the output shaft between bearing item 12 and output gear item 13, this lessens deflection on this shaft also to almost nil. Again use a sealed bearing on item 16, ditch the seal item 15 and shorten the housing. All works for a semi clean environment.
 
what about a group buy on the motor as is (with reduction) ?

say 10 for $1K ?

I need to get a sprocket but will put it on this.....

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=23032

How many rear sprocket teeth for this ? 60?
 
The helical design is a bit of a drawback. Could one use the motor for regen this way? My guess is: freewheel drive is a must...
I got myself this 1:5 transmission:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170288047424&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT
It'll maybe not work for too long, but i can combine it with any motor I have plus the clutch will ( hopefully ) save my controller from toasting.
-Olaf
 
I want an ebike that will also vacuum and scrub my floors. All my Roomba's have taken one look at the place and promptly killed themselves.
 
Jim, I asked John pricing on 10, 100 and 500 units; but he did not offer one in the last 2 emails. Perhaps Jeremy is best to handle that area. I don't know where the price breaks are for this motor. As I am pretty sure we all know the motor, with the gearbox is priced at $200/ea on the Mars website: http://www.marselectricllc.com/pmbumo.html
 
I cannot speak to the quality of this motor, however I have the larger brushless from Mars on my Suzuki. I have dealt with John F. and he is a stand up guy. The motor has preformed flawlessly for over 7500 miles and still as good today as when new. I am quite sure this motor could take in Bursts quite a bit more power than what it is rated for.

Good riddance to Randy Drapper once again. I think he should earn the Safe "Ban for Life" treatment!
 
texaspyro said:
I want an ebike that will also vacuum and scrub my floors. All my Roomba's have taken one look at the place and promptly killed themselves.
Click to expand...

Hey, do you think if I used a Roomba for an ebike motor that I could just program the bike to "Go Home!" and take a nap? :p

Cameron (yes, I know I should be ashamed of that, but I'm not)
 
bigmoose said:
Jim, I asked John pricing on 10, 100 and 500 units; but he did not offer one in the last 2 emails. Perhaps Jeremy is best to handle that area. I don't know where the price breaks are for this motor. As I am pretty sure we all know the motor, with the gearbox is priced at $200/ea on the Mars website: http://www.marselectricllc.com/pmbumo.html
Click to expand...

and what about a controller .... would I sent the motor directly to a controller guy

or

is this all that is needed ....

http://www.marselectricllc.com/sccome.html

yhst-57437235823410_2130_170836
 
me thinks that Mars controller is the equivelant of an on/off switch for a floor scrubber.
Maybe a hi/low option, but not any thing like a E-bike speed controller.
Which controller is the 64k$ question.
 
Hi,

IMO a 125kv version will be much more useful than a 250kv version.

IMO a built-in 5:1 reduction will be very very nice if its quiet and strong enough.

Maybe the reason Randy mentioned a quantity of 50 is that he inquired and found a price break at 50?
 
josh mentioned something about noise ... i am really looking for a quiet non hub e-bicycle motor/drive.
 
Thud said:
me thinks that Mars controller is the equivelant of an on/off switch for a floor scrubber.
Maybe a hi/low option, but not any thing like a E-bike speed controller.
Which controller is the 64k$ question.
Click to expand...

Randy suggested a Kelly controller

E-mailed Mars about a controller for the scrubber motor..... john wrote ....

"There are many electric bike controls available. China makes 20,000,000 electric hub motors per year, and all of these need controls. I do not sell controls, but I can find one for you. A good place to start is www.kellycontroller.com

We can change the windings. We have made 240 volt, 120 volt, 36 volt, and 12 volt versions in the past.

The tooling to make an entirely new model is not that expensive. Let me know what you need and I can see what is possible.

The stator resistance for the 36 VDC model is 0.200 ohms, phase to phase, which is fairly low. Things like bearing-seal friction, and steel losses (eddy currents and hysteresis) can also be significant, depending on the speed.

John Fiorenza
Mars Electric LLC "
 
I am thinking that this motor would be useful as a thru-the-gears setup, wound for higher voltage (48-72V or similar), as it is easier to get higher voltage than higher current capacity, plus Peukert eats less at higher voltages for the same power output. ;) But I'm also not thinking of RC controllers/etc, rather using with regular ebike controllers or one of the several in-development sensored types, that should all be capable of higher voltage right off the bat.

I know two people locally that work on floor scrubbers; most are propane but some are electric, and I'll see if either one of them can get used units.... :) I never thought of looking at these, as I assumed they'd all be big old brushed motors!
 
Hi Guys,

I would be willing to send someone one of these motors to test out...

I have found my collection, and have four units to wring out.

My interest is in finding a good small controller for it, and seeing what it can take, like 36v and 80 amps???

We have seen it as a mid drive set up for a recumbent, with a dual clutch set up. I like a final drive of about 300 rpm.

Would Matt or Jeremy be interested, give me an address, and let's get some testing started!

OK, I have one going out to Holmes Bikes, for some testing, and controller recommendation.

Josh K.

970-416-6803
 
Josh may be sending one to me for some testing. I would be trying different controllers to determine if there is a way to make them run quieter than his experiments have found. I would be happy to send it to Luke for some empirical measurements afterwards if Josh has no objections.
 
Yup,

No problem John, thanks for calling. I am boxing one up right now.

You may pass it on when the time is right to see what Luke's testing can produce as well.

Idealy, we find a good little controller that will make less noise, and see what kind of efficiencies we can
get at some reasonable power settings.

I would like to run this motor up Pikes peak next year, perhaps at about 36 volts, and 80 amps...through the gears.

Thanks so much, Josh K.
 
I suggest a rewind to accommodate 72v 40a instead :lol: Later down the line maybe...


Can't wait to see how the construction is on this thing. Lamination thickness, copper density, backing iron thickness, etc.
 
Here are a couple of shots of the motors we have here right now.

I guess I will send the cyclone gear reduction equipped unit for testing today.

This one has a key way, and another has a smooth shaft for a slip lock clutch...more well suited for a mid drive.

Thanks so much guys, I look forward to learning more about this machine, and it's capabilities.

Josh K.
 

Attachments

  • open face and original gear.JPG
    open face and original gear.JPG
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johnrobholmes said:
I suggest a rewind to accommodate 72v 40a instead :lol: Later down the line maybe...


Can't wait to see how the construction is on this thing. Lamination thickness, copper density, backing iron thickness, etc.
Click to expand...


You want a 12v wind, and then run it at 72v.
 
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