Maytag's GT gets a BMC

[maytag]

Great video super cool tunes as well! and what a beautiful place as well! glad that the controller is now ok as well, mine is still holding up great as well, got some new tyres coming and bits and bobs, then will go and test 72V again.

I took the 48V Puma up a 20% grade yesterday and it climbed it at 12mph! I was staying with cars!.

Bigh

I think Maytags bike was going pretty quick, notice in the video how quickly he passed the Lycra rider

Hey Knoxster,

Great to be back on the road again, will keep my male egoness in check and stick to 54v for a good while although after cruising around the lake when I passed by that crazy dirt path I just had turn it around and give it a shot (totally unplanned but good for the video :lol: ) I'm feeling completely confident in my GT's setup, even after that steep climb I shortly unmounted to give everything a look over. Nothing was even a tiny bit warm. I'll be placing an order for a DrainBrain this week so I can report some performance data. But here's a little info on that Burn-In ride: (just to the top, not including the cruise around the lake)

Distance: 2.69mi
Starting elevation: 132ft
Destination elevation: 610ft
Travel time: 7min, 14sec
Top speed: 34.2mph
Avg speed: 22.3mph

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes good work on the controller mate, mine seems fine also now I have modified it, although someone will prob tell me I have done something wrong or my opinion is wrong or my data is flawed or my videos are fake or i peddle too much or I make all this shit up to sell motors!! when i dont even sell motors!

Oh well at least your bike is going well, I am so impressed with the Puma I have now dropped the USPD, the Puma is quieter and more powerful and more discrete, I had a Lycra dude pass me yesterday when I was in my training zone, I didnt notice him pass me as I had head phones on, he waved and smiled at me, I dont think he could tell from behind I had a motor and as I wasnt using it he could not hear it either, so I didnt toast him! I could easily have but I let him off the hook, like a big friendly great white shark in a sea of Tuna fish :lol: yes hold off 72V for a while, let me smoke things first :lol:

I am confident nothing is going to smoke this time though, as soon as my new tyres are here and the bike is tweaked, I will don the ruck sack and get out there and pump some power at 72V through the Puma, if it works ok for a 100 miles or so I think it will be cool, still dont know how long the gears will last we shall see.

Take care matey and happy e-bking!!

Knoxie

 

[Lowell]

I wouldn't let any Lycra off that easily! :lol:

I would have grabbed his wheel for a while and then slowly passed him while pedaling really fast... on my bike the pedaling is just for effect of course. I almost feel bad for them, especially the ones that speed up and try their best to drop you on their $$$ aero road bikes, not realizing they have no chance.

 

[BiGH]

Hi Dave

Great video super cool tunes as well! and what a beautiful place as well! glad that the controller is now ok as well, mine is still holding up great as well, got some new tyres coming and bits and bobs, then will go and test 72V again.

I took the 48V Puma up a 20% grade yesterday and it climbed it at 12mph! I was staying with cars!.

Bigh

I think Maytags bike was going pretty quick, notice in the video how quickly he passed the Lycra rider, I have run the Puma at 72V in a 26 inch wheel and it tops out at 37mph how fast do you want to go?? it pulls very hard up to 30mph, like a moped.

Some of the xlyte motors will take you faster by a bit but none of them would be able to climb and run that kind of top speed like the Puma does, thats not to say that they are no good, they are but the Puma for its size and weight is about the best performing motor I have tried period, its so good I dont run my USPD any more only on the KMX.

The new Puma is even more powerful and will come with different gearings, also the wheel totally freewheels just like a normal bike, there is no cogging at all something proper PA users may prefer if like me they like to go on long rides with minimal motor assist.

Dave just needs to get some miles under his belt now to make sure its all going to work out, 72V is a different world power wise.

Cheers

Knoxie

I know i'm bad - i just keep flipping my decisions each time :S

I thoguht tho from my understandings of the posts that the new puma was more torque, less power, resulting ina lower top speed? (i could be wrong) operating on 2 hours sleep. I'm still contemplating being absoluetly crazy and fitting one to a flat bar road with massive torque arms (the length of the chain stays)

 

[Lowell]

The Puma would probably be a great all 'round motor with high voltage. Extra low end torque from the gear reduction, and volt your pack(s) according to the top speed you'd like. Amp it up until the gears break or you let the smoke out, and then back off a little on the next one.

 

[geoff57]

I am so impressed with the Puma I have now dropped the USPD

have you dropped the modified USPD on the KMX as well, this is the system I am using but with some mods to get round the spoke problem and to widen the range of sprockets that I can use on the wheel.

Geoff

 

[knoxie]

Hi

No the KMX is still rigged with the USPD and it seems to be ok, I have problems on the main bike if I go off road a little with spokes breaking, I didn mean to get the hub before they all went but never got around to it, I am still messing about with the USPD its just I have dropped it off my main ride, I will still use it on something I am sure If I can come up with a way of being able to run the higher power without breaking spokes, its ok as long as I am careful, but I like to play in the woods!!

The Puma lets me do this and that straight laced wheel is immense I never would have thought it would be so strong, but it is and the Puma is equally as powerful as the USPD, so for now I will use the Puma, its quiet as well and a bit more discreet!

Id be interested to see your rig

Knoxie

 

[geoff57]

Hi Knoxie


yes I can see how it is more discreet, but on a KMX it dosn't matter the KMX isn't exactly discreet.
It seems I have gone down the same route the lashout system took, without knowing it existed, that of using a disk brake mount to attach the sprocket to the wheel. First thought of this about 6 years ago when ordering my first tadpole recumbent, it has a SRAM dualdrive rear hub (3 speed internal hub with a 9 speed derailler) somtimes called a 3X9,since these bikes are custom built you could choose your own drive train the 2 most common at the time was the dualdrive and a Rolloff 14 speed internal, I asked if I could have a disk brake compatable version and got one for £20 ($40).Finding a motor for this proved hard so I shelved it for the time being.
When I saw what had been done to the KMX that you now have I was determined to finish what I had started, I got on to the guys at KMX and ordered one and asked if they would change the disk brake for V-brakes at the back but leave the disk brake hub in this they did and after some work my way of puting a motor on a "bent" was working.
I still have a long way to go.

Geoff

P.S. knoxie can you sudgest a better thred than this one to continue this in as this seems to be dedicated to puma and other hub motors.

 

[marty]

Question about noise? How does the Puma motor compare with Crystalyte motors? How much noise do different hub motors make?

From what I read, Puma has gears Crystalyte don't.

 

[knoxie]

Hello

Well I dont want to hijack this thread so I am going to keep it short, the xlyte motors are pretty much silent, the Puma motors are not silent but are pretty quiet, think the noise a CD makes when you first put it in to your CDR on your machine, about that! so outside and at speed you cant really hear it, its a lot quieter than the USPD.

Knoxie

 

[Lowell]

My Xlyte hub does have a bit of a buzzing resonance around 40km/h (26" wheel) but otherwise is pretty much silent. I would guess that the Puma's nylon gears would be much quieter than a chain drive?

 

[geoff57]

Hi all
can't speak for hub motors I use a USPD with a Kollmorgon motor running on 40 NiMh (48v) the motor is louder than the chain drive it uses to drive the rear wheel.

geolf

 

[knoxie]

Dave

Puma Hit 43mph at 82V! 8) controller was fine (150v) and motor was ok, the lipo BMS didnt like the power though! so have to split the packs and beef those pesky lipos up a little, however may limit the Puma to 20-25A at 72V as I think anymore power just gets burned up in heat, need a dyno to test it, 20A at 72V should be good for over 35mph on the flat.

Hope you are still rocking along, 60V at 30A is perfect power for your rig IMHO.

Later

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

43MPH ,

i'm begining to ponder a crash helmet now :wink:


D

 

[maytag]

Knoxster,

43mph! Awwwww Yaaaaaah. Now I'm questioning myself if I should have went for the 150v FETs, the 4310s that I installed are rated at 100v but have about half the ON resistance of your 150v FETs. Yes the GT is still running strong at 54v, although I've got a rear flat to take care of. So it's really starting to look like the Pumas can be run reliably at 72v, it was the latest batch of Crystalytes all along. Great stuff, keep up the 82v testing and report often. Deecanio has got to be salivating by now -hehehe

 

[fechter]

The 4310's should hold up fine at 82v.

I was pounding my poor 3808's, which are rated for 75v, with 60v worth of Hawkers. I was peaking at 95 amps, and the battery is about 65v resting at the beginning of the ride. Considering that the gates run 10v higher than the pack, I was right at the upper voltage limit.

No smoke.... except from the tire

I'm seriously considering one of those Puma motors for the bike I'm working on. I don't need over 40mph, but I do need some hill climbing power.

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Yes I think Richard is right I just went for a bit of a safety Zone at the expense of a little more heating, now the case wasn't getting hot and the fets seem stronger if that makes any sense? listening to Richard last time and the fact that the lipo rests at 82V and the failures had all come when the volts were not sagging i.e. under no load I decided to run 150V fets as 82V+10 is 92V bit close for me!!, Richard also used the 150V fets on his controller mod pictures.

I think the windings will be ok at 1500W or so I just don't know how long the gears will last, this is the only unknown so far as I have put enough through the copper to know it should hold up, the BMX gears certainly look fine and they had a battering at 72V, the lighter Puma with the BMC stamp doesn't have quite as beefy gears in it as the BMX and the new Puma but they still should be ok? we will see!!

I think the Puma is a great motor, I am pushing it to its limits and everything else around it has been breaking not the motor!! think I have all the weak links tied down now, I think Dave who made the insane a cycle said there was a lot of smoke and twisted metal made producing his bike!! its kind of the same with me but its that nasty smell of burning components!! ha ha.

Later

Knoxie

 

[fechter]

That's the spirit Knoxie!

It might be a good idea to check on the gears from time to time.

Is it possible to see the gears without un-spoking the wheel?
Does anybody know if replacement gears are available?

I suppose a well armed machine shop could produce gears from any material. What would be the best? Steel? Steel would be noisy, but no worries about breaking teeth off.

The stock gears are some kind of plastic, probably nylon. I know my old '69 Toyota had a plastic timing gear that lasted longer than the rest of the engine.

 

[knoxie]

Hi Richard

Ha ha yes I like to test literally to destruction, there is no other way to find out about some things limits in my book esp. as we want to push the motors way passed their intended ratings.

You can easily check the gears, its a simple case of taking the cassette off, unscrewing the cover plate, the motor then comes out in 1 x lump! the rotor and the drive gears in one hand and the empty hub/wheel and hub inner ring gear in the other, could prob strip down and back up again in 30mins or so, so no excuse not to check.

I think it will become fairly obvious if teeth wear, so far so go no nasty transmission noises from any of the 3 Pumas I have.

The Lipo issue is the biggest pain, they are only fitting 55V rated fets, now the return is switching 72V under load, I think this is a bit much for them, I may fit just 2 100V rated fets on either side, If I use 4110s their low on resistance will mean I only need 2 either side? at the moment they have 5 3205 fets either side in paralell banks, they blow easily when the pack cuts out.

The other option I have is to not bother at all under load? not sure if its a good Idea though , they would still be balanced on charge, nah second thoughts not a good idea, I will modify the 2 x BMS I can get to and fit bigger 100V fets, they run 5 fets in paralell each side, not a bad idea as it spreads the load and makes the typical resistance 1/5 of the actual on resitance of 1 fet. I think its a combination of the overall power and voltage a bit like mini blade fuses blowing easily at 72V 30A but being ok at 48V 30a, that old V squared over R!!

If I can get the batteries to play ball I can try and make some smoke come out of one of those cats!! ha ha, looking like a lot fun.

Knoxie

 

[maytag]

The Lipo issue is the biggest pain, they are only fitting 55V rated fets, now the return is switching 72V under load, I think this is a bit much for them, I may fit just 2 100V rated fets on either side, If I use 4110s their low on resistance will mean I only need 2 either side? at the moment they have 5 3205 fets either side in paralell banks, they blow easily when the pack cuts out.

The other option I have is to not bother at all under load? not sure if its a good Idea though , they would still be balanced on charge, nah second thoughts not a good idea, I will modify the 2 x BMS I can get to and fit bigger 100V fets, they run 5 fets in paralell each side, not a bad idea as it spreads the load and makes the typical resistance 1/5 of the actual on resitance of 1 fet. I think its a combination of the overall power and voltage a bit like mini blade fuses blowing easily at 72V 30A but being ok at 48V 30a, that old V squared over R!!

If I can get the batteries to play ball I can try and make some smoke come out of one of those cats!! ha ha, looking like a lot fun.

Knoxie

Knoxie,
I think getting into the Lipos and bypassing the BMS is the easiest solution to getting Deecanio to 74v, this is what I've done with my pack but I feel safer doing this because my pack is made up of emoli cells. If you plan on going this route with Deecanio's Lipos I'd suggest using a good contactor between the pack and the controller. Connect the contactor so it's triggered by one of the bms. When the lipo pack is charged the bms is happy and acts like a closed switch (mine completes the circuit on the negative side). This can operate the contactor so when LVC is reached the bms will open the circuit cutting off the 37v to the contactor coil in turn cutting off the 74v to the controller. Same plan I have for my setup but I just want my bms to light up an LED to let me know LVC has been reached, Emolis can withstand a little abuse better than Lipos

I finally placed the order for a DrainBrain, luckily Thunderstruck had 1 left in stock otherwise I'd have to wait for the release of version2.

 

[knoxie]

Hi Dave

Yes I have thought of doing this, however I think a couple of higher voltage fets will work ok with a BMS like on the Blue lipos, the factory hacve said it is ok to put them in series but I think we can see it isnt!

I have looked in to using a solid state relay, its not a bad Idea and they have equivalent on resistance to the fets and would handle the power surges better esp when the BMS cuts, I may also wire in a temp cutout using a motor protection relay and thermistor on the windings, this is important at 72V.

I like the fact that each pack has its own cutout though, I just appreciate them smoking at 72v! ha ha.

I bet it isnt long before you try yours again at 80V! he he

What a laugh they are at 82V though, mental!

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[deecanio]

yo maytag,

whats the news with your puma ???
long time no post are you still playing nicely with it?
I'm looking at your thread for news and vids as im off the road while i get the batt mounting sorted out

cheers


D

 

[maytag]

yo maytag,

whats the news with your puma ???
long time no post are you still playing nicely with it?
I'm looking at your thread for news and vids as im off the road while i get the batt mounting sorted out

cheers


D

Oh I'm having a blast with it. Still playing nice (54v) and its happy as ever, the GT has been very very reliable so long I stay nice. Been out fishing with it twice (see my posts in the escoot vs ebike thread). Nobody notices that the GT is electrified, some notice only the batteries in the triangle but I can tell they dont know theyre batteries. One guy was checking it out while I was dismounted and when I got back the guy asked "is that your braking system or something?" hahaha.

Havent been doing any videos since I wasnt very happy with the quality of the ones I already posted (too jittery). Just out getting use to the handling of the eGT. I'll start looking for some nice bike trails soon, I need a better cam solution before making more videos.

 

[deecanio]

cool,

Glad things are running nicely there mate, good to hear.
i really need to get my bike back ready to ride, just finding the time to take it in for some modding ;p i'll check out the thread - my first vid was crap way too jerky lol, its best to get someone else to film you - go for the trails dude i had a blast at 36v through the forest!!!


cheers


D

 

[Mark_A_W]

I think a 7-speed cassette may have fit, not really planning on using many gears anyway.

How does the shifter handle this? Can you adjust it so it just "stays put" for the last 2-4 clicks?

Or did you get a new shifter to match?

This issue is what makes me hesitant to try a rear motor.

Mark