Milan SL velomobile conversion

[The Toecutter]

Earlier in the thread you mentioned how wonderfully efficient the Velomobile is and I'm just wondering why you need such a high current battery pack and high wattage capability if it's so efficient. There seems to be a contradiction there. Are you interested in drag racing? I'm just trying to understand. For my experience on my recumbent non-velo trike, which is slung very low also, I think 50 km per hour is plenty of speed in my case. And if I'm correct on my guessing, I only need maybe 400 watts or so to get to that speed. If 1000 watts is available to the hub motor, that should be actually quite adequate in acceleration. I just wish there were more of these vehicles around so it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb for authorities who think it's some kind of illegal UFO or something.

I need to be able to accelerate like a car and keep up with car traffic to minimize the risk of getting hit. Around here, that means going 40+ mph uphill. Plus when I'm out in the country, I want to fly around at 50+ mph.

 

[marka-ee]

Wow, from my experience of being that low, that actually feels like going maybe 70 or 80 miles per hour, doesn't it?How much suspension travel do you have when it's already weighted with your batteries and body? On mine, I only have maybe three quarters of an inch. That would never be enough for those kind of speeds on the roads I experience.

 

[The Toecutter]

I have about 1" of suspension travel on the Milan, and 2.25" on the custom build. It definitely feels much faster than it is actually going. The roads here suck. I often see 7" deep potholes with the same area as a manhole cover. One such pothole caused a spindle failure on my custom build at 40 mph. That was not fun.

I can't use the Milan yet because I'm trying to sort out a wheel/tire rubbing issue inside the rear wheel well. The last thing I need is a rear tire explosion at speed. I've used it for maybe 3 miles as an EV, trying to fix its issues. I suspect my rear swingarm is damaged from an SUV driver that purposely hit me years ago. I bought this Grin motor because the Leafbike didn't fit. I get audible rubbing when making a left-hand turn.

 

[amberwolf]

Is yours built like this?

https://www.velomobileworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/DF_DFXL02_FUR_A000.pdf

https://www.velomobileworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/DF_DFXL02_FUR_A002.pdf

If so, my best guess is a fracture in either one of hte bolts securing that triangle pivot bracket to the frame, or in the bracket itself, allowing it to twist.

Alternately, whatever bushing they have in the pivot is worn or damaged (split along it's length or just at one end, for instance).

 

[The Toecutter]

Is yours built like this?

https://www.velomobileworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/DF_DFXL02_FUR_A000.pdf

https://www.velomobileworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/DF_DFXL02_FUR_A002.pdf

If so, my best guess is a fracture in either one of hte bolts securing that triangle pivot bracket to the frame, or in the bracket itself, allowing it to twist.

Alternately, whatever bushing they have in the pivot is worn or damaged (split along it's length or just at one end, for instance).

Mine is dual-sided, made of aluminum. The single sided carbon fiber version was designed to prevent fitting a motor on later Milan models.

 

[amberwolf]

Ah. I guess I missed finding the dual-sided version anywhere. I was poking around the web trying to find a structural diagram or exploded view of the frame and swingarm to see what failure modes my brain would see in it that could cause the results you see.

 

[Logic11]

Mine is dual-sided, made of aluminum. The single sided carbon fiber version was designed to prevent fitting a motor on later Milan models.

...to prevent!? WhyTF would they want to prevent the fitting motors!??

 

[The Toecutter]

...to prevent!? WhyTF would they want to prevent the fitting motors!??

Legal liability. 1,000W and no speed restriction in a velomobile is basically a microcar capable of freeway speeds. Governments are overly strict toward any small startup who builds anything because the entrenched industries who bought these governments and the laws these governments passed without the peoples' vote, laws purchased by industry, don't want any competition stopping the flow of "their"(our) money to themselves, all under the guise of "public safety".

So the small startups are taking preventative measures out of survival instinct, just in case idiots like me do something crazy and/or stupid and get caught and/or hurt...

Bill Thornton's Milan SL with dual-sided swingarm has a 4kW system in it, and it does 90+ mph. He got scared at 90 mph and didn't top it out.

Me? I just want to use this Milan for a sensible purpose: efficient/cheap long distance transportation. My other velo, the custom build, is going to be my "fun" trike, for trolling Hellcats at stoplights with and joining in street takeovers with the local hoodlums. Anarchy!

 

[PaPaSteve]

just for fun

 

[The Toecutter]

just for fun

He did that WITHOUT a motor installed.

I'd love to someday build a 2-seat sports car that is a scaled-up Milan SL, with no bicycle drivetrain or parts. Imagine an EV sports car that weighs around 900 lbs, has AWD hubmotors, makes about 200 kW peak, only needs 50 Wh/mile to hold 70 mph, and has a 15 kWh battery on board. The performance would be delicious lunacy, and if mass produced, it would be surprisingly inexpensive to build.

 

[Logic11]

He did that WITHOUT a motor installed.

I'd love to someday build a 2-seat sports car that is a scaled-up Milan SL, with no bicycle drivetrain or parts. Imagine an EV sports car that weighs around 900 lbs, has AWD hubmotors, makes about 200 kW peak, only needs 50 Wh/mile to hold 70 mph, and has a 15 kWh battery on board. The performance would be delicious lunacy, and if mass produced, it would be surprisingly inexpensive to build.

Yep, pedaling should be optional.

Tandem seating cant be beat for frontal area, but IMHO does require leaning/tilting if you don't want to kill yourself and want some height to the vehicle.

As for costs and weight:
Have you considered aircraft fabric, stretched and then 'Shrunk' over a frame?
People have a hard time believing fabric can be tightened enough not to flap, but there it is!

Most interesting is Oratex:
"...Oratex is based on a woven polyester fabric, but unlike other aircraft fabric systems the weave filler, UV protection, and color coats are added at the factory..."
Oratex Aircraft Fabric

ie: Just pick your color, stick it on and iron it tight and done!
(I have no experience with this new stuff)

Not as aero as complex curves, but lots of surface for solar.

 

[Logic11]

Legal liability. 1,000W and no speed restriction in a velomobile is basically a microcar capable of freeway speeds. Governments are overly strict toward any small startup who builds anything because the entrenched industries who bought these governments and the laws these governments passed without the peoples' vote, laws purchased by industry, don't want any competition stopping the flow of "their"(our) money to themselves, all under the guise of "public safety".

So the small startups are taking preventative measures out of survival instinct, just in case idiots like me do something crazy and/or stupid and get caught and/or hurt...

Bill Thornton's Milan SL with dual-sided swingarm has a 4kW system in it, and it does 90+ mph. He got scared at 90 mph and didn't top it out.

Me? I just want to use this Milan for a sensible purpose: efficient/cheap long distance transportation. My other velo, the custom build, is going to be my "fun" trike, for trolling Hellcats at stoplights with and joining in street takeovers with the local hoodlums. Anarchy!

So you build and sell something, but modifications by the consumer are still considered your fault!??
'Only in America!' Here you'd get laughed out of court!

 

[The Toecutter]

Yep, pedaling should be optional.

Tandem seating cant be beat for frontal area, but IMHO does require leaning/tilting if you don't want to kill yourself and want some height to the vehicle.

This idea in my head would have side-by-side offset seating, like the VW XL1, and no bicycle drivetrain. Solar would be present though. For cost and durability, it would likely be a fiberglass composite monocoque.

 

[Logic11]

This idea in my head would have side-by-side offset seating, like the VW XL1, and no bicycle drivetrain. Solar would be present though. For cost and durability, it would likely be a fiberglass composite monocoque.

Before I forget and lose the link, integrating the suspension into a springy anyway fiber chassis would likely save a hell of a lot of space and weight.
That needs a good look at.
https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/74433/813136157-MIT.pdf

There must be govt grants and such for this type of vehicle/idea..?
Lets get some and make/build! we only need 2

 

[gman1971]

Superb!!

 

[The Toecutter]

...the main reason I bike everywhere is to cut down on a chance encounter with the Nazis police we have in the USA.

As long as they don't mind my 100% legal emotional support flamethrower being carried onboard.