Jeez, that's such a handful of posts. I regularly unscrew glued parts, it's not meant to stay in there forever, especially the blue variant. I just put the bolt in a vise and use a wire brush, it takes maybe 30s per bolt to get it clean enough to reapply glue and remount...
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Misaligned post and blue Loctite.
- Thread starter DosCom32
- Start date
DosCom32
🔋 Established
To properly align the stem/front wheel, I used the two pieces of tape + marker technique. Turn everything all the way to the left and make the first mark anywhere so you have a line connecting both pieces of tape. Then do the same to the opposite side. After that, it’s just a matter of finding the center point between those lines and you’ll get a pretty decent alignment.
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DosCom32
🔋 Established
Sounds pretty good. I still need to do that to my scooter at some point. I already bought a set of 3 brushes—steel, brass, and plastic. I’m not sure if it’s necessary, but I was thinking about soaking the bolts in acetone for about 15 minutes, and then brushing everything starting with the softer bristles and seeing how it goes.
Cheers.
Don't bother. Put screw in a vise vertically, pry out most of the stuff with a knife, chisel or sharp screwdriver, go over the rest with the steel brush, put new glue on. I guarantee it will work just fine. Buy an oil marker and mark it to have extra degree of confidence that it's not actually moving.
If you're worried about the steel brush damaging the rust-proof coating, then as long as the bolt is rated 8.8 or lower, then usually the best course of action for automotive use is to throw it out and replace with A2 or A4 stainless equivalent. If the thread goes into aluminium, it's a good idea to cover the entire surface of the thread with loctite as it will then, counterintuitively, work as an antiseize and guarantee both that it will hold and it will happily unscrew 10 years later.
The only case where you might want to take more care is bolts that use heavier-grade loctite and go inside hard to reach areas, like inside of a motor. Those should often be heated prior to disassembly anyway, but for obvious reasons extra care should be taken then. In a lot of cases you can identify those if the manufacturers outright states that a new bolt should be used. This should be read as "if you're reusing the bolt, make sure it's really clean and in good condition".
DosCom32
🔋 Established
Thanks for those valuable tips. Marking the bolt position with a permanent marker is also a really good idea, I wouldn’t have thought of that. I guess if many people say they’ve had good results without removing the old Loctite and just adding more, then maybe it’s not really necessary to make everything look brand new or even buy new hardware.
Tomorrow I’ll start with the two M5 bolts (4 mm hex tool) that hold the handlebar, just to get a feel for how all this works. By the way, wouldn’t lightly heating the threads with a torch lighter and then brushing them a bit with a brass brush work well enough? From what I’ve read, blue Loctite is pretty vulnerable to high temperatures, so direct flame should definitely affect it, maybe even making it easier to remove gently.
RunForTheHills
🚴♂️ Mega poster
You should be able to remove the bolts without heat with blue Loctite. Try that first. Heat can damage surrounding components. You are way over- thinking the whole thing.
DosCom32
🔋 Established
That's not an issue anymore, because a few days ago I was actually able to turn those six main stem bolts without heating them at all. I managed to loosen them without too much effort, and I took the opportunity to do the perfect alignment and tighten them back up without cleaning them or adding more Loctite yet. I’ll do that later.
The only two bolts I actually had to heat with a 60-watt soldering iron were the brake lever bolts, because they absolutely did not want to loosen, even with a lot of force. Those came with Loctite applied and were also very poorly aligned from the factory.
Another tip for you there; if it's indeed an "all-terrain" scooter, i.e. there's a risk it might take a nap or two at some point, instead of tightening the levers so that they don't move at all, wrap the bar with a few layers of teflon sealing tape (regular kind used for plumbing) and clamp the levers on top of that. Then tighten to just snug.
What this does is prevents super tight binding that might cause the lever to snap in cause of a crash. It's much better to allow it to rotate, and aligning it back requires just a couple taps with your hand. Of course you need to torque it entirely by feel then.
RunForTheHills
🚴♂️ Mega poster
Sometimes using an impact screwdriver will break a bolt loose without stripping the bolt or screw.
And for someone on an ES budget, often just using a manual screwdriver with a good bit can break free stubborn screws. Hold the screwdriver in the slot while twisting it to unscrew, while hitting the end with a hammer. Poor man's impact screwdriver. Works.
It can work but the point of an impact screwdriver is that it applies the maximum torque precisely when it also applies maximum downward pressure, and the torque steps off as soon as that pressure releases. This is what prevents the bolt from stripping.
I've used the cheapest one like that and they tend to jam and break quite quickly. It's good for one, maybe two uses at best.
DosCom32
🔋 Established
I never mentioned here that another mistake I made at the beginning — the very first time dealing with this — was not shaking the Loctite before using it. From what I researched, it supposedly shouldn’t be a major issue, especially since the bottle had still been indirectly agitated a bit during transport and handling, so it wasn’t sitting completely still for days or anything like that.
Still, I’m wondering if that could be the reason why the Loctite didn’t seem to “bite” very much when I loosened the first bolt and then re-tightened the whole assembly afterward.
Maybe the culprit was probably the low torque values I had in my original chart, so loctite did not work well because of that.
I was so focused on learning the correct routine with a non-digital torque wrench to act fast — first time in my life using one — that boom… I completely forgot to shake the Loctite well
.
Still, I’m wondering if that could be the reason why the Loctite didn’t seem to “bite” very much when I loosened the first bolt and then re-tightened the whole assembly afterward.
Maybe the culprit was probably the low torque values I had in my original chart, so loctite did not work well because of that.
I was so focused on learning the correct routine with a non-digital torque wrench to act fast — first time in my life using one — that boom… I completely forgot to shake the Loctite well
.
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marty
🏍️ Giga poster
What you smoking? Most likely not healthy to inhale. Also could be the cause of overthinking?
Rarely use that. See any on bolts that manufacturer used to assemble contraption the first time? No? that's because it's not needed. I like nuts and bolts to be clean and sometimes lubricated depending on how I am feeling.
Lubricants? Use what ya got. Buy nothing. Water for plumbing or anything that gets wet. Oil. Grease. WD-40. Vaseline.
Good way to learn how to tighten fasteners. Tighten till it breaks. Usually the head snaps off the bolt. That's too tight. I have a torque wrench built into my hands. Big long wrench for big fasteners. Shorter handle for small stuff. For scooter, bicycle, hex stuff, like T handle. Picture shown is standard sizes. Think you need metric?
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marty
🏍️ Giga poster
Clean enough so that threads spin easily. Don't worry about a little old Loctite as long as it don't make friction during assembly.
i did play with mechanic stuff for a long time and i dont use a torque wrench unless i'm doing a very precise job like a head gasket or something very specific. Imo using a torque wrench for everything without the feeling of bolts isn't better and can be missleading if you don't have the proper chart you won't figure it out....
On the other hand, if you have a good idea of normal force to apply and you feel the torque is going far from this...you will double check before making bad mistakes. Like mixing pounds per feet vs pounds per inch an break all the bolts before finding the problem...
What i suggest to get that feeling for bolts torque and tools is to get a bunch of useless bolts. (Your grand father or garages have plenty of mixed can full of them). Get some and experience to torque them to the limit untill it break to ''feel'' how much force the usual size need or can handle before breaking. Pay attention to the handle lenght of your tool because a longer wrench apply more torque with less effort obviously.....For example, you can take some m6 with a 3/8'' ratchet and apply progressive force, you should feel when the bolt ends, then when it locks and if you keep going and going, you should feel it stretch. It is when you feel that it is like if the bolt is getting loose again. You are adding force and it don't move and at some point it will move again but when you reach that point, it is too late, it will snap with a couple more degrees. So you need to find that sweet spot between the torquing point and that point where it start to stretch and stay in the middle or a little more to the safer side. Then repeat and repeat....
Some may also strip instead of snaping, it depends of the thread size and bolts but that same apply.
Ok some bolts are weaker and some are stronger according to their grades but as a rule of thumb, cheap stuff or furniture will have very weak bolts that need extra care. Other stuff would have average one that you should get used to. And some very demanding stuff will have higher grade but it is not so common and for those, you can keep using the dial wrench.
As a hobby mechanic you learn it with rusted bolts....when you snap one and it take 2 hours more to get the thing off then you work around the next ones to get them out with less torque. (heat, hammering or else)
As for locktite, don't mind you that much. As other said, brush the bolt and you are good to go again especially the blue one.
On the other hand, if you have a good idea of normal force to apply and you feel the torque is going far from this...you will double check before making bad mistakes. Like mixing pounds per feet vs pounds per inch an break all the bolts before finding the problem...
What i suggest to get that feeling for bolts torque and tools is to get a bunch of useless bolts. (Your grand father or garages have plenty of mixed can full of them). Get some and experience to torque them to the limit untill it break to ''feel'' how much force the usual size need or can handle before breaking. Pay attention to the handle lenght of your tool because a longer wrench apply more torque with less effort obviously.....For example, you can take some m6 with a 3/8'' ratchet and apply progressive force, you should feel when the bolt ends, then when it locks and if you keep going and going, you should feel it stretch. It is when you feel that it is like if the bolt is getting loose again. You are adding force and it don't move and at some point it will move again but when you reach that point, it is too late, it will snap with a couple more degrees. So you need to find that sweet spot between the torquing point and that point where it start to stretch and stay in the middle or a little more to the safer side. Then repeat and repeat....
Some may also strip instead of snaping, it depends of the thread size and bolts but that same apply.
Ok some bolts are weaker and some are stronger according to their grades but as a rule of thumb, cheap stuff or furniture will have very weak bolts that need extra care. Other stuff would have average one that you should get used to. And some very demanding stuff will have higher grade but it is not so common and for those, you can keep using the dial wrench.
As a hobby mechanic you learn it with rusted bolts....when you snap one and it take 2 hours more to get the thing off then you work around the next ones to get them out with less torque. (heat, hammering or else)
As for locktite, don't mind you that much. As other said, brush the bolt and you are good to go again especially the blue one.
DosCom32
🔋 Established
Thanks man for that valuable information. What you said about intentionally snapping bolts to gain real experience with torque actually sounds like a good idea.
I already cleaned everything with brake cleaner. Brushing the bolts did absolutely nothing for me, but a razor blade and some patience worked really well. With that plus the brake cleaner, I think I did a pretty solid job.
By the way, I just realized the bolt holes only have around 5 mm of thread engagement, which honestly feels pretty cheap to me. They definitely could have made it deeper. I guess that makes it even more important to use Loctite with everything properly cleaned first.
When I assemble the scooter stem, what I do after an initial final tightening of the bolts is give the front wheel some moderate bouncing by lifting from the stem and shaking the whole unit somewhat hard for about a minute. Then I go ahead and do the final tightening again, and I end up finding that the bolts can actually be tightened a bit more ^^.
According to the specifications, my blue Loctite cures in 24 hours. I'll let it cure for about 3 days without using the scooter. I've already made witness marks with a Sharpie. I was thinking of using white paint, but it wasn't necessary. With that, I've finally completed an assembly that I'm satisfied with.
I already cleaned everything with brake cleaner. Brushing the bolts did absolutely nothing for me, but a razor blade and some patience worked really well. With that plus the brake cleaner, I think I did a pretty solid job.
By the way, I just realized the bolt holes only have around 5 mm of thread engagement, which honestly feels pretty cheap to me. They definitely could have made it deeper. I guess that makes it even more important to use Loctite with everything properly cleaned first.
When I assemble the scooter stem, what I do after an initial final tightening of the bolts is give the front wheel some moderate bouncing by lifting from the stem and shaking the whole unit somewhat hard for about a minute. Then I go ahead and do the final tightening again, and I end up finding that the bolts can actually be tightened a bit more ^^.
According to the specifications, my blue Loctite cures in 24 hours. I'll let it cure for about 3 days without using the scooter. I've already made witness marks with a Sharpie. I was thinking of using white paint, but it wasn't necessary. With that, I've finally completed an assembly that I'm satisfied with.
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marty
🏍️ Giga poster
Think the best tool for this is a wire wheel bench grinder. Mine has a wire wheel on one side and a grinding wheel on the other side. How to hold bolts while wire brushing? Leather gloves or vice grips? WEAR SAFETY GLASSES.
DISAGREE. Better to have a group of nut and bolt engineers argue about this till the end of time.
In one of my past lives. I was building boats. After tightening. We would pee on the nuts and bolts. Salt in the pee would cause rust. This was the earliest thread lock fluid.
Wrong marker. [white paint marker] is what you want. If you weren't a Loctite lunatic, you could tighten every bolt before having dreams of things getting loose.
marty
🏍️ Giga poster
WOW stole a picture from.
www.mcmaster.com
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