Tiberius
10 kW
liveforphysics said:
If you look through the photo gallery, they only have photos of 2nd onwards arriving at the top.
I was there before the photographer was ready.
Nick
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Motorized Bicycle racing in Tucson Arizona
- Thread starter tritonwow
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If you look through the photo gallery, they only have photos of 2nd onwards arriving at the top.
I was there before the photographer was ready.
Nick
Thud said:
That was not the Death Race, just only 5 of us that got together for a small race. The Death Race is usually anywhere from 15-20 laps. Time permitting they may add more laps. Between practice, heat and main I did about 30 miles in January.
Really cool to have some E-Bikes representing in the Death Race, hope to see some of you out there at the track.
BTW: Registration begins at 12pm racing starts at 3pm
Stick me on that pic list.
I have an idea about the chainring problem on CB2, and am napkin sketching as I cogitate it. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to fix it, and then we'll see about bringing that down there, too, just for the fun (since it won't be fast enough to *really* compete, and I'm not a racer, either).
I have an idea about the chainring problem on CB2, and am napkin sketching as I cogitate it. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to fix it, and then we'll see about bringing that down there, too, just for the fun (since it won't be fast enough to *really* compete, and I'm not a racer, either).
AussieJester
1 TW
^^^^I seen that frame before and i know the motor is a morini That wound easily pull 50mph plus
geared for it that aint no under power pile of snot happy time motor, still..not in the same league as a big turnigy 130 with a thud two speed powered by lipo and a maniac like Luke riding it
I see word must have gotten to the Motored Bike forum of the impending ES invasion of the Death Race heheheKiM
p.s welcome to the forum Fr31...it is a very nice bike you have mate .
GrayKard
10 kW
Thud said:I have a prior commitment today but early tomorrow a new projects starts:
I.C.E CRUSHER 1.0 IS Born!
photos prior to the unveiling will be by PM only to E.S Members......this is a "for fun" event remember :lol: :lol: 8)
Add me to that PM list please.
Oh man, I'm getting so jealous, I wish I had the time to go too. My bike as is would only be good for blocking. But I would happily do that.
Gary
AussieJester
1 TW
liveforphysics said:To get a little traditional pre-race smack-talk started, I posted on the spooky-tooth race blog a comment along these lines:
"I'm coming from Seattle for this race to dominate you all on a bike I've never even ridden, powered by an electric motor the size of a teacup."
If the comment moderator approves it, hopefully it will start them smack-talking about how electric motors are crap, and how it would take a giant electric motor and hundreds of pounds of batteries yadda yadda... lol
HAHAHA good show Luke...Ol Safe is 100% trolling ES he has now posted in the Death Race thread on Motoered bikes forums letting them know of
ES members intention to spoil the ICE boys day...So ..of course i have done the only thing one can do in this instance, re-joined Motoeredbikes
forum so I can do some trash talking on behalf of you HAHA Give em hell LuKe/Thud make that thing PiiiiiiSSSSSS
KiM
p.s I betting i wont get a dozen posts in before being banned....again LOL
AussieJester
1 TW
gogo said:They're probably over there trying to figure out how to bolt a water cooled Aprilia engine to a bike now.
If i built a ICE bicyle up i would use the 10hp watercooled
47cc pocketbike motors through a shift kit have a 5 liter tanek and be good for 100 laps haha
$US525 dollars with some pretty impressive performance...
KiM
liveforphysics
100 TW
Fr31 said:
The problem is, until a RACE is set, we can't build something to win a race that isn't defined...
It's bullsh*t to have a race where the distance isn't determined, even when it's just a for-fun race.
A gasoline of course has a massive energy advantage. They can simply carry an extra pint of gas for an extra 1lbs of weight, and run for another 30mins or whatever.
An electric's limitations are of course in pack energy capacity. I'm willing to scrape together the cells (maybe some of you guys can let us borrow some more lipo?) to build the pack to meet whatever range requirements will be needed, but you can't play the undefined quantity of laps game and call it a race.
I don't mind the open rules format for the vehicles permitted, I think that's great. But to be a race, you need a defined starting and stopping point. Otherwise gasoline power can always beat any electric power by simply deciding there is time to continue the lapping until the batteries die on the electrics.
LI-ghtcycle
10 MW
Thud said:Nick,
were you eves dropping on Luke & I last night?
I have a prior commitment today but early tomorrow a new projects starts:
I.C.E CRUSHER 1.0 IS Born!
photos prior to the unveiling will be by PM only to E.S Members......this is a "for fun" event remember :lol: :lol: 8)
i can't wait to read in their forum about us cheaters & A) how our victiry is shallow & undeserved, B)it serves us right melting down on the track for trying to run a ringer build on them....either way i am pumped.
Oh definitely put me on the PM list too plz!!
I'm so happy that you guys are going to represent E-Biking at that race!
Racing will IMHO be the driving force when it comes to E-Bike popularity!!
I wish I HAD the gear still, let my old motorcycling leathers and gear go when my health started to tank, now I wish I still had it available. Of course NOT having has it's advantages too, I can use that as an excuse for not being competitive as well! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I wouldn't care if I was competitive if I could make it there, it would be a blast just being back on a race track!
If I was closer, I would try to at least spectate and witness the carnage first hand!
I'm going to have to look into your set-up as far as wheels/tires and such go, your reminding me how exciting racing can be!
AussieJester
1 TW
liveforphysics said:
I have 8 22x 5000mah packs you can have Luke, they are even bigger (dimensions) than the standard size Turnigys
You will be set mate, call by Methys on the way and borrow half of his Lipos you will then have enough to do a 24hr race
KiM
Tiberius
10 kW
Thud,
Put me on the pm list too, please.
Thanks,
Nick
Put me on the pm list too, please.
Thanks,
Nick
mud2005
10 kW
jeez, I hate to make the PM list even longer, but I want in too
dogman dan
1 PW
Well. they could just make the race long enough to run us out of juice. Spooky was telling me 4 mile heats, but maybe that's just the practice heats.
Obviously there is the ability for a gas bike to carry a lot of range, 60-70 miles is possible for them on one gallon, and they could pit for more. Looks like we better bring about 30 min of run time. Even for my slow bike that's about 15 miles and I'll be slowing down at the end. Two hours of total time avaliable for 3 races. Mabye we will be making a pit stop to finsih the race. I have some range in my pings with a stock controller, but If I was to buy some lipo for a 72v controller, I doubt I'd get farther than 4-5 miles on a 5 ah pack.
Re one of Jesters posts, there are definitely some better engines out there than the ebay bike kits! Wouldn't mind going gas myself with that one in the pic. But for practical travel, I sure like the way nobody kicks me off the bike trails for having an electric motor. Quiet, no vibration, no smells.
Obviously there is the ability for a gas bike to carry a lot of range, 60-70 miles is possible for them on one gallon, and they could pit for more. Looks like we better bring about 30 min of run time. Even for my slow bike that's about 15 miles and I'll be slowing down at the end. Two hours of total time avaliable for 3 races. Mabye we will be making a pit stop to finsih the race. I have some range in my pings with a stock controller, but If I was to buy some lipo for a 72v controller, I doubt I'd get farther than 4-5 miles on a 5 ah pack.
Re one of Jesters posts, there are definitely some better engines out there than the ebay bike kits! Wouldn't mind going gas myself with that one in the pic. But for practical travel, I sure like the way nobody kicks me off the bike trails for having an electric motor. Quiet, no vibration, no smells.
Yep, it looks like the good old "We might decide to ... *sic* do anything we spontanteously desire to ensure gas wins.". Even though it's "fun", I definitely wouldn't call it a race if that's the case.
It's like the tortoise and hare in a race - it seems to be just good enough for the hare but just as the hare approaches the finishing line, the tortoise's friends decides there's "more time left" and so push it back and the hare gets tired and the tortoise wins. I wouldn't call that a "race", I'd call that cheating.
A race is about speed, performance, handling and driver skill, not endurance, no?
It's like the tortoise and hare in a race - it seems to be just good enough for the hare but just as the hare approaches the finishing line, the tortoise's friends decides there's "more time left" and so push it back and the hare gets tired and the tortoise wins. I wouldn't call that a "race", I'd call that cheating.
A race is about speed, performance, handling and driver skill, not endurance, no?
liveforphysics
100 TW
Yeah, with no defined start and stop, it's not a race.
In my type of racing, when I setup for running the 1/8th mile, I run a 24.5x9.5" slick with 7psi, my 5.1:1 final drive ratio, and I disable the 1st stage of nitrous and only run my 2nd and 3rd stages, and I have them hit 2,000rpm's sooner.
When I race the 1/4 mile, I run a 24x8" slick with 9psi, my 4.7:1 final drive ratio, and I run 3 progressive stages of nitrous.
When I'm doing 1/2 mile stuff on the street, I setup for a 3.7:1 final drive ratio, the 0.873 6th gear, drag radials at 10psi, and I have to re-jet the 3rd stage of nitrous, and have a 6th gear timing retard by 2 extra degrees to keep from burning up by the end of the 1/2 mile.
The point is, you setup your equipment to be able to run the race. I explode running a 1/2mile when I'm setup for 1/8th mile racing. Just like an E-bike optimized to run 8-laps will not have the battery for 30laps, and may not have the cooling for 30laps either. This is fine though, we can build a bike for a 30lap race, but it's going to suck for an 8-lap race with the extra 50lbs of batteries hanging off it everywhere.
It effects everything even down to the choice of frame depending on the number of laps, as to how much energy we need to store, and what layout will be optimized.
If they won't define a race, then we're just wasting our time. Thud and I will do our best to build a bike to win any race they want to set, but we MUST have a defined race before we can build a bike. For an electric, it's no where near as simple as just taping on a 1-liter bigger bottle of fuel and a little rubber hose and calling it a day if the race is going to be 30miles rather than 10miles.
In my type of racing, when I setup for running the 1/8th mile, I run a 24.5x9.5" slick with 7psi, my 5.1:1 final drive ratio, and I disable the 1st stage of nitrous and only run my 2nd and 3rd stages, and I have them hit 2,000rpm's sooner.
When I race the 1/4 mile, I run a 24x8" slick with 9psi, my 4.7:1 final drive ratio, and I run 3 progressive stages of nitrous.
When I'm doing 1/2 mile stuff on the street, I setup for a 3.7:1 final drive ratio, the 0.873 6th gear, drag radials at 10psi, and I have to re-jet the 3rd stage of nitrous, and have a 6th gear timing retard by 2 extra degrees to keep from burning up by the end of the 1/2 mile.
The point is, you setup your equipment to be able to run the race. I explode running a 1/2mile when I'm setup for 1/8th mile racing. Just like an E-bike optimized to run 8-laps will not have the battery for 30laps, and may not have the cooling for 30laps either. This is fine though, we can build a bike for a 30lap race, but it's going to suck for an 8-lap race with the extra 50lbs of batteries hanging off it everywhere.
It effects everything even down to the choice of frame depending on the number of laps, as to how much energy we need to store, and what layout will be optimized.
If they won't define a race, then we're just wasting our time. Thud and I will do our best to build a bike to win any race they want to set, but we MUST have a defined race before we can build a bike. For an electric, it's no where near as simple as just taping on a 1-liter bigger bottle of fuel and a little rubber hose and calling it a day if the race is going to be 30miles rather than 10miles.
TylerDurden
100 GW
Having the distance undefined is a non-starter, IMO.
I suggest establishing a reasonable distance and offering that as a class distinction for the electric rigs. Gassers welcome.
I suggest establishing a reasonable distance and offering that as a class distinction for the electric rigs. Gassers welcome.
Thud
1 MW
I am of the opionion we design for a 32 minute race. That should get us in the ball park of range regarding recent history of the event. Thats a 20 lap race at 1.5 min lap times.....
I don't think the Spooky tooth guys are holding any mallace on e-bikes. It looks to me, it is bicycle promoting event. (its us who are takeing the competition a little serious....we need/are trying to establish the legitiamcy of an E-bike in regards to performance.)
That said we could allways keep the records of on track performance. Fastest Lap by a powerd bicycle. Fastest 5 lap average & so on.
Either way I have a frame stripped & am setting up the jig to get the wheel base correct for a 6' pilot. I am building this frame set regardless. (almost forgot the camera for the before shots LOL!)
AJ has said it many times, this is a different type of vehicle. there really is no comparison when it comes to an endurance run with our limited energy carrying capacity.
I will e-mail the promoter again & see if he will commit to a distance.
We are going into this quite blind, so Luke, if you would rather pass on this event or try to get some real info on the Main event structure I have no problem with that. You already know my plans for 2011 & a run up pikes peak.(did I say That out loud? )
As much as I would love to ride the event myself there is no way I can justify taking a few vacation days to fly to an unsanctioned amature race & fly home. (I never got to do that as a motor cycle racer!)
Lukes home situation is a bit different than mine in that regard. I am Happy to offer all the support I can though.
After all the retoric I give my wife about spending money,she is re-writing the honey do list after hearing about this project
I don't think the Spooky tooth guys are holding any mallace on e-bikes. It looks to me, it is bicycle promoting event. (its us who are takeing the competition a little serious....we need/are trying to establish the legitiamcy of an E-bike in regards to performance.)
That said we could allways keep the records of on track performance. Fastest Lap by a powerd bicycle. Fastest 5 lap average & so on.
Either way I have a frame stripped & am setting up the jig to get the wheel base correct for a 6' pilot. I am building this frame set regardless. (almost forgot the camera for the before shots LOL!)
AJ has said it many times, this is a different type of vehicle. there really is no comparison when it comes to an endurance run with our limited energy carrying capacity.
I will e-mail the promoter again & see if he will commit to a distance.
We are going into this quite blind, so Luke, if you would rather pass on this event or try to get some real info on the Main event structure I have no problem with that. You already know my plans for 2011 & a run up pikes peak.(did I say That out loud?
)As much as I would love to ride the event myself there is no way I can justify taking a few vacation days to fly to an unsanctioned amature race & fly home. (I never got to do that as a motor cycle racer!)
Lukes home situation is a bit different than mine in that regard. I am Happy to offer all the support I can though.
After all the retoric I give my wife about spending money,she is re-writing the honey do list after hearing about this project
liveforphysics
100 TW
Thud said:
What I want to do is f*ck these guys up so bad they are haunted by the memory of the defeat every year when they hold the event, and have nightmares about tea-cup sized electric motors that run them down.
BUT! It's pointless to enter if they can just extended the race out as long as needed until our batteries die... IF that's the case, then I'm not going to fly down there just to get strung-out to fail like that.
We gotta get distances set in stone, and then we can look at what I actually practical for pack size needed to win this thing. If they say 50 laps or something stupid, we're going to be fighting against a weight penalty (from the battery) that will make it really tough as a rider to be competitive if my bike is twice the weight to fling around as all the gas bikes....
dogman dan
1 PW
I agree, if the race starts at whenever, and just goes till 5:00 PM, that's fine for gassers, who are who the race has been for in the past. But for us it's a handicap. I can go 30 minuites on my setup, but with only 1000 watts, it's not really competitve except against the worst ebay kit gas motors. It'll take me a lot of time to get from 25 to 30 mph after each corner if I do any braking. If I had another 15 pounds of battery strapped on, it would definitely affect cornering dramatically with the frame I have avaliable. I'll be happy not to be last on what I'm bringing. But a DNF when I was beating even just one of em would suck!
I was told by spookytooth that it was 3 heats of 4 miles. 3 heats of 6 miles, 3 heats of 8 miles, I don't care. But a 15 mile last heat is truly a whole different animal for any of us. At 15 miles, I'll be at least 3-4 mph slower by the last lap. Perfect setup to fail. We really really need to know the distance. If it's 15 or 20 miles, OK, we can show up or not based on our ability to compete at that distance. But to show up told it's four miles and find out it's 15 is just unacceptable.
I also emailed spookytooh, but I expect he won't read it till monday. I simply asked what the distance of the last heat is expected to be, and told them we had heard it may be longer than 4 miles. I'll be going for sure in any case, 400 miles one way is no big deal for me. LPF has way too far to come to just win an unofficial electric class.
But it is just an amatuer race, it's their race, and I'm beginning to see why the electric guys haven't been there before. Which brings us to.... Where do we hold OUR race, and when? A good track closer to methods or LFP? Something organized to happen the street? Tagged on to a regular bike race somewhere? In between heats on a dirt track? Some time midsummer is when many can get off work awhile.
Another option, challenge em to a drag race, or challenge the winner of the death race to 5 laps.
I was told by spookytooth that it was 3 heats of 4 miles. 3 heats of 6 miles, 3 heats of 8 miles, I don't care. But a 15 mile last heat is truly a whole different animal for any of us. At 15 miles, I'll be at least 3-4 mph slower by the last lap. Perfect setup to fail. We really really need to know the distance. If it's 15 or 20 miles, OK, we can show up or not based on our ability to compete at that distance. But to show up told it's four miles and find out it's 15 is just unacceptable.
I also emailed spookytooh, but I expect he won't read it till monday. I simply asked what the distance of the last heat is expected to be, and told them we had heard it may be longer than 4 miles. I'll be going for sure in any case, 400 miles one way is no big deal for me. LPF has way too far to come to just win an unofficial electric class.
But it is just an amatuer race, it's their race, and I'm beginning to see why the electric guys haven't been there before. Which brings us to.... Where do we hold OUR race, and when? A good track closer to methods or LFP? Something organized to happen the street? Tagged on to a regular bike race somewhere? In between heats on a dirt track? Some time midsummer is when many can get off work awhile.
Another option, challenge em to a drag race, or challenge the winner of the death race to 5 laps.
RWP
1 kW
I have been following this thread with great interest. And if it were not for Earth Day in Santa Barbara on the same weekend I would be very tempted to show up if a few of the E-S guys would be competing.
Some of us in SB are joining the EAA and will have a booth at the Earth Day celebration. We will have two 3 wheeled electric cars in process, the electric motorcycle conversion I did last year with a friend, my Cortina (which is running pretty well these days) and if all the parts show up in time, a Rocky Mountain RM7 (2001) with 20" wheels, a 3220 5 turn running @48v, through the BB drive, SRAM DD for transmission, broached ENO - lightweight bicycle based motorcycle.
But to the point: This thread, at least for me, screams for us to create an electric bicycle and bicycle based motorcycle racing class and maybe a trike class.
Not sure how to define the criteria...
Motor size?
Voltage limits?...
what do you guys suggest?
Who better than the bright lights at E-S to put this together?
Roy
Some of us in SB are joining the EAA and will have a booth at the Earth Day celebration. We will have two 3 wheeled electric cars in process, the electric motorcycle conversion I did last year with a friend, my Cortina (which is running pretty well these days) and if all the parts show up in time, a Rocky Mountain RM7 (2001) with 20" wheels, a 3220 5 turn running @48v, through the BB drive, SRAM DD for transmission, broached ENO - lightweight bicycle based motorcycle.
But to the point: This thread, at least for me, screams for us to create an electric bicycle and bicycle based motorcycle racing class and maybe a trike class.
Not sure how to define the criteria...
Motor size?
Voltage limits?...
what do you guys suggest?
Who better than the bright lights at E-S to put this together?
Roy
TylerDurden
100 GW
I was just thinking the same thing.
Our host, Michael, was putting together an ES meet-N-greet awhile back, but IIRC, the logistics/permissions got wonky.
Someplace central with mild weather and a major airport would be good. Maybe an EV manufacturer/supplier would want to host the event.
Our host, Michael, was putting together an ES meet-N-greet awhile back, but IIRC, the logistics/permissions got wonky.
Someplace central with mild weather and a major airport would be good. Maybe an EV manufacturer/supplier would want to host the event.
enoob
1 kW
they seem to mention that the person who falls the least wins ?
If so id imagine they allow you to pit to fix things ? maybe change out for a fresh pack ?
If so id imagine they allow you to pit to fix things ? maybe change out for a fresh pack ?
tritonwow
100 W
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2009
- Messages
- 104
I started another thread for this discussion:RWP said:I have been following this thread with great interest. And if it were not for Earth Day in Santa Barbara on the same weekend I would be very tempted to show up if a few of the E-S guys would be competing.
Some of us in SB are joining the EAA and will have a booth at the Earth Day celebration. We will have two 3 wheeled electric cars in process, the electric motorcycle conversion I did last year with a friend, my Cortina (which is running pretty well these days) and if all the parts show up in time, a Rocky Mountain RM7 (2001) with 20" wheels, a 3220 5 turn running @48v, through the BB drive, SRAM DD for transmission, broached ENO - lightweight bicycle based motorcycle.
But to the point: This thread, at least for me, screams for us to create an electric bicycle and bicycle based motorcycle racing class and maybe a trike class.
Not sure how to define the criteria...
Motor size?
Voltage limits?...
what do you guys suggest?
Who better than the bright lights at E-S to put this together?
Roy
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17266
AussieJester
1 TW
RWP said:s and maybe a trike class.
I am pretty sure i even saw a trike running on the Death Race videos (was powered by a shit box Happy Time though)
I would pay to see Recumpence on his reverse trike race but it would be boring watching him against ICE bicycles
they would be hazards rather than competitors, i want to see him up against ICE sprint karts and beating them hehehee
KiM
