Motorized Bicycle racing in Tucson Arizona

[EVTodd]

i want to see him up against ICE sprint karts and beating them hehehee

That would be something to see but being a kart racer myself I'm going to have to say it's going to be a while before it comes to that. I imagine you could get close to some of the speeds (in some classes) with the right number of motors and batteries but handling wise nothing is going to come close to a modern sprint kart.

A 140 to 150 mph trike would be fun to watch though!

I do know that there is more and more interest in electric karting. As batteries progress I think that would be great. It's something I would be interested in for sure.

 

[amberwolf]

I asked for that weekend off (17-18-19), hopefully I'll get it. If so, I am going to try to find one of my friends locally interested enough in the idea to help me get down there. Even if I can't ride CB2 in the race, I'd still like to bring it to show off. And I want to see what happens down there in person, if I can.

Definitely, though, it needs to be a set # of laps for the race. On CB2 with the SLA at 36V I can make it about 15-17MPH for at least 15 miles, with some pedal assistance. If I gear it up for faster and I don't have to keep stopping and starting up for traffic, wasting all that power, then I could probably manage 8 or 10 miles at 20-25MPH, without the cargo pods and anything else I can leave off of it.

Maybe if I make a rear cloth fairing it will help. I can also leave off the front suspension fork and use a solid fork, since such a smooth track doesn't need the suspension. That'd save a couple of pounds or so.

If I can dump the SLA and use the LiPo/LiCo cells, I'm sure I can go faster and much farther, though my acceleration will suffer some due to the lesser max current I can pull from them vs SLA. Mwkeefer is sending 3 Celllog8s that will be able to at least give me an LVC warning so I don't destroy the cells. I just need to try to weed out all the weak cells first, and stick them all in a pack on "top" so I can just "cut it off" using either relays or switches (whatever I have laying around here) if they really start to act up, but still use what power they can provide for as long as they can manage it.

Of course, this is all contingent on being able to overcome the chain-coming-off problems.

 

[dogman dan]

Hopefully you can make it Amberworlf. Be good to at least have a few Ebikes show up. We can race the old farts class.

I didn't realize that was earth day weekend. Man it would be sweet for somebody to crush em on earth day. After a jet flight with a huge carbon footprint.

 

[swbluto]

Soooo... it's Monday and the officials in charge have hopefully had a chance to respond back in regard to some definite distance or quantity of laps. Any word?

 

[swbluto]

I didn't realize that was earth day weekend. Man it would be sweet for somebody to crush em on earth day. After a jet flight with a huge carbon footprint.

Honestly, if the gas price of driving ones car exceeds the cost of the jet plane ticket (And I really doubt jet fuel is subsidized or that much cheaper than gasoline), then I would think that flying would be less of a per-capita carbon footprint than driving, no? Plus, I'm sure there's some carbon-footprint rate that's associated with time - perhaps, the carbon needed to produce the fast-food that would be additionally eaten on the way?

Although, in regard to LFP, his car does have a great mpg...

 

[dogman dan]

One never knows what the truth is with Eco statistics, but I heard one statement on TV about one across .the US round trip having the carbon footprint of a year commuting in the car. But they didn't say how far a commute in what kind of car.

No reply yet from spooky, and won't be suprised if there isn't any. His last words to me are, you'll just have to show up to find out about the race. That was from when it looked like I was the only ebike planning to show up. Sounds like details like rules and race lengths are not someting he's worrying about. Should be fun anyway, but not exactly a real race I think. I'm stoked just to get on a track whatever the race rules may end up being. Looking at slicks today, vs some semi slick tires I have allready.

 

[Thud]

Here is the current exchange with R at spooky tooth:

& how many laps exactly was that?
Are you being evasive? or is my question unclear?
please,
How many laps will the Death race be?


On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Spooky Tooth Cycles <info@spookytoothcycles.com> wrote:

A little secret for you, since it sounds like you're doing some extremely fast power dispensing there; the guy who won last year, did so on a 48cc 2 stroke. It's not necessarily all about the speed, but more about handling.




Spooky Tooth Cycles
1 Cochise Row
Bisbee, AZ 85603
1.866.243.4552
Free technical support Monday - Friday 10am to 5pm PST
http://www.SpookyToothCycles.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDY2fgIs2So



On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Todd Lane <toddl49456@gmail.com> wrote:

Ronald,
Thanks for the quick reply. I would like to know the specifics of the "main" event. I am designing an electric bicycle to compete with & this knowledge is critical to determine the correct batery size to make the distance.
As it stands my curent bicycle would only make a 5 or so lap race at the speeds I would like to run at
Thanks again for the info. I am looking at trying to promot some like events up here in michigan if i can find enough interested guys to do it. sure looks like a good time & i love all the custom bike builds I see in the video's competeing. when the time comes UI will be ordering a motor set up from you. Thanks again.
Thud.. (Todd)



On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Spooky Tooth Cycles <info@spookytoothcycles.com> wrote:

Hi Thud,
This is all about fun! I feel that if you show up and want to race your "motorized bicycle" than you are welcome to do so. The track is .8 miles and we generally do around 5 laps or more and take about 30 minutes to complete it.

Once you get out there, you will see that it is physically grueling, scary, hair raising, eyeball popping fun.

Thanks, Roland


Spooky Tooth Cycles
1 Cochise Row
Bisbee, AZ 85603
1.866.243.4552
Free technical support Monday - Friday 10am to 5pm PST
http://www.SpookyToothCycles.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDY2fgIs2So



On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Todd Lane <toddl49456@gmail.com> wrote:

This is an enquiry e-mail via http://www.spookytoothcycles.com/ from:
Todd Lane <toddl49456@gmail.com>

I am looking for info on the event structure-
specificly the length of the main event.
I have a guy telling me its 4 miles (5 laps?)
but i read the flyer that there are 30 minute heat races.....is there a qulifting proccess & only a few make the "main"?

This looks like an absolute blast!
are any & all Modifications leagal? any kind of "class structure?
Thanks Thud.

I thought I asked a pretty clear question regarding distance in the first e-mail......lets see what the next responce is.

 

[liveforphysics]

I get the feeling they are constantly dodgeing an answer to not make it possible for an electric to be a competitor.

They can always just make it 2laps more than whatever we bring the battery to handle.

 

[swbluto]

Can you try asking for a max? It's one thing to say "5 laps or more", but the phrasing that's more applicable to us is "10 laps or less". And surely there's a "reasonable" max? If they purposely dodge that direct question, than I would honestly believe there's a bias that they're sure to play.

A max provides flexibility that they appear to like, but also provides a comfortable limit that we could plan around.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, it's just a casual race, that lasts till they run out of track time. Not worth your travel expenses to win really. If it were closer for you, it would be fun to blow thier minds in the short practice heats. But not worth a huge effort to race the main and run out of juice when they keep running till 5:00 PM.

I will have enough juice to last it out 30-40 mins at 1000 watts. But my only hope is they corner for shit. A few do, but the one guy looked ok in the video's. I would think that with a better rider than I, a 2000 watt ride would be at least competitive. Something with 72v 20 ah would only have about 30 pounds of battery weight. What better way to celebrate earth day than race electirc?

 

[dogman dan]

Supposing it's 15 laps.... in thirty minuites that's actually pretty dang slow! The turns must be tight. I beat that time just commuting to work the other day, including stop signs, some pretty long red lights, residential corners to get around.

Clearly the track is pretty gnarly if the times are that slow. LFP oughta be able to beat em just by knee dragging without crashing with a fast commuterbike.

 

[swbluto]

Clearly the track is pretty gnarly if the times are that slow. LFP oughta be able to beat em just by knee dragging without crashing with a fast commuterbike.

Lol.

LFP != pedal.
LFP not-equal pedal.

 

[AussieJester]

Clearly the track is pretty gnarly if the times are that slow. LFP oughta be able to beat em just by knee dragging without crashing with a fast commuterbike.

hehe yes, along with frock motors and automatic cars, pedalling 'commuter bikes' makes Luke sleepy and
uninterested hehehe.. Its mojo from the motor or no go at all

KiM

p.s i got banned from MBC....again somehow they new it was me and was busted for a duplicate account, i have no idea
what gave me away i was being ultra conservative

 

[dogman dan]

Uhh, did I say pedaling a commuterbike? Where did I say he had to pedal? I think I said, or meant, he could beat em on the cornering. As in, top speed might be 30 mph in the straights, but he takes the corners at 30 too. While everybody else crashes or brakes to 25 mph or less for the corner.

The point I was trying to make was that a good rider could beat em on anything by not crashing.

But seriously, a plain ol 5304 on 72v oughta have enough accelleration if the cornering is there, and I'm sure it is. 72v 20 ah 5c battery and 40 amp controller oughta go the 30 min. Bunch a guys have bikes like that. Spooky keeps saying, don't crash and you win.

 

[AussieJester]

The point I was trying to make was that a good rider could beat em on anything by not crashing.

Yeah i got that was just having some fun at Lukes expense Dogman

I think the fact the e-bike will come in lighter than the stink bike even piled with lipos
will give it a BIG cornering/braking advantage. Seems Spookytooth are being
wankers about the whole race specifics, smells like they are leaving it open till
they know how far the e-bikes are able to go at speed then raise the laps so they
cant make distance. Unorganised unprofessional (can we call them rednecks?)
ghetto setup.

KiM

 

[swbluto]

Uhh, did I say pedaling a commuterbike?

When you said "commuter bike", you clearly didn't say "commuter ebike", so that's where.

 

[dogman dan]

Ahh, now I get it. Of course I meant a heavy cheap bike with a frock motor.

LFP pedaling would be something to get on video

I think race length is just an issue that hasn't come up before with all gas bikes. The "death race" must simply be a race where when one dude is left running, he's the winner. The rest are limping off to find a dog to lick thier road rashes clean. That's why he could likely win on the crazybike. Laying it down costs a lot of time.

 

[AussieJester]

The "death race" must simply be a race where when one dude is left running, he's the winner. The rest are limping off to find a dog to lick thier road rashes clean.

Weeeell if thats all it takes Luke can have it done and dusted in a lap 2 at the most, with "barry baseball bat" along for the ride he will
make short work of 'nullifying' the competition The Thudmiester could even knock up some 'Mad Max' like spikes for the wheels
that would take out opposition spokesz

KiM

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

You know, I think they are just being sneaky to tweak us on the nose! :lol:

I think from what they are saying "We generally go for about 5 laps or more and take about 30 minutes to complete it ..." that in truth, this is as much an endurance race as anything else, and they hint at it being "physically grueling, scary ... " makes me think they have more on the track to deal with than just the race course.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "main event" involved some added cones and chicanes/obstacles on the course. I also think part the reason they aren't giving much details is to create a buzz on-line and get more people to come just to solve the mystery.

Maybe they have you slalom through impossibly tight corners, or just have a contest to see who can complete the most laps before they are exhausted from having crashed/road rash like dogman said, or just from fighting such tight corners and flogging the bike around?

Sounds like this is a promotion for mainly gassers and particularly Spooky Tooth, kind of how some manufacturers of motorcycles have events that only allow THEIR product to be raced (Harley & Buel come to mind). Nothing wrong with that, but hey, it's all just fun and bragging rights, right? :wink:

At least they allow for a "run what you brung" policy 8)

I'm really interested in the idea of having our own event too! Maybe there could be different classes to reflect battery/motor power, and also have an "Open" class for all out monster ebikes!

 

[amberwolf]

I asked STC via their webpage, and so far the answer comes back that there is no specific *distance* to the actual race itself, but just a time limit of 30 minutes, for "who can go the farthest / last man standing". And that electrics are welcome to skip the qualifiers.

As long as that will be true, then all that's needed is 30+ minutes of runtime for whatever speed you think you'll be able to maintain, and if you can go faster on average than anyone else you'd go the farthest, and assuming you don't crash you'd "win".

I expect I'd lay CB2 down a few times, but hopefully I'd still be able to get up and keep going; I already know I wouldn't be able to ride fast enough to keep up with most people even if CB2 could do that. I just don't want to end up running out of juice before it's "over", simply because it keeps going instead of cutting off at some specific finish line or finish time. I'd feel exactly the same if I were riding a gas bike with a very small tank.

 

[swbluto]

I too think that it's a promotion for their own gassers so I think possibly they're trying to detract dominating electrics from showing up from the "experts". If that's the case, I would definitely support going during the practice heats with defined lap rates just to dominate the gassers to detract from their business (By showing the prowess of electrics), and then withdraw from the main event because you're just too good for them. :lol:

Then, of course, hand out endless sphere business cards and spread the word.

*edit*

Just noticed the newest information. If that's the case, than a 30 minute runtime should be easily achievable with electric. At 5000 average watts, that sounds like about 2500 watt-hour? That sounds like 25ish lbs of batts. Place some or all in a backpack (with crash protection of course) for the handling benefits.

 

[amberwolf]

If you put the batts in a backpack, then that weight will be above COG and have to be swung around with your body to do maneuvers. If it's fixed to the bike down below COG, I'd expect that to improve handling even more. :?

 

[swbluto]

If you put the batts in a backpack, then that weight will be above COG and have to be swung around with your body to do maneuvers. If it's fixed to the bike down below COG, I'd expect that to improve handling even more. :?

If they can stuff all that battery inside the BMX frame or near the wheel's axle height, all the power to them.

I find that one can usually "control" the weight that's directly attached to them, so the handling is much the same as if they weren't wearing it (Depending on how securely fashioned it is.).

 

[enoob]

i think we might be getting a little conspiracy theory guys.

i suspect the folks holding this event are only catering to the majority as would make sense for a business sponsored event . i doubt they are trying to exclude anyone .

the vibe i get is they are saying please just come on out join the fun and we will make sure you get to race. now if the entire history of the race has been 30min finals and we show up only able to run 32mins and suddenly its a 40 min final then id bet you'd never see another electric bike there again .

not good for business even if your head is in your rear.

i say we relax and make it a spot on the calander for next year when we can show up 10 strong sponsored by cell-man on rides that can average 70mph for 35mins.

 

[AussieJester]

not good for business even if your head is in your rear.

:

Definately not considering Spookytooth sell electric bikes.,
not very wise at all if they make it so their customers who bought e-bikes from them aren't thought of and catered for in the event now is it. :wink:

KiM