My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[Ecyclist]

Did you ever look at Chines scooters? I'm talking about these 50cc that you can buy for about $1000. After about a year of use they are done, dead, kaput.

FYI This bike cost three times as much and is less than a year old.

Yes, it is very expensive especially considering it is a Chinese junk. That was exactly my point.
You can buy like new Haibike for that money.
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/bik/d/diamond-bar-haibike-xduro-full-seven/7169167792.html
I just build my own e-bike.

Actually the list of problems with haibikes is very long. There will always be problems with some units of a product.
What you need to look at is if that is the norm with the product. If the product is consistently breaking down then yes, it is a problem. A bafang ultra falling apart like this is not something we see often, actually not even heard of before. Is the Bosch motor better than the bafang ultra? IDK but you can not compare them to eachother because they are two completely different platforms designed to do different things. Apples to oranges. If I wanted a 250 watt bike I would buy one. Then maybe I would look at a Bosch. I would also love to go over the sources of most of the parts on a haibike. Probably mostly Chinese anyway.

Good for you. Just keep buying Chinese junk and while at it get a Chinese car.

 

[tsellers]

I believe Haibike uses Bosch?

Here's a nice picture of their facility in China.

 

[FlyingFinn]

I believe Haibike uses Bosch?

Here's a nice picture of their facility in China.

Yup and Bosch plastic gears must be alot better than these chinese metal ones since they’re German!!!

 

[Ecyclist]

I believe Haibike uses Bosch?

Here's a nice picture of their facility in China.

Yup and Bosch plastic gears must be alot better than these chinese metal ones since they’re German!!!

Are you saying that all plastics and rubber are the same?
There must be a reason why Chinese people prefer to buy Chinese made VW versus Chines brand cars.
There is definitely a reason why Chinese won't buy Chinese powder milk.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Are you saying that all plastics and rubber are the same?
There must be a reason why Chinese people prefer to buy Chinese made VW versus Chines brand cars.
There is definitely a reason why Chinese won't buy Chinese powder milk.

Or if you like to fix your car with bare handtools on your own buy a Lada.

Where’s the news? World is full of different ebikes and if you think some mark or model is profoundly shit why to bother discuss about it?

The idea for this topic is to discuss about Frey’s bikes. So far your one-liners haven’t added any value to this conversation.

 

[tsellers]

The idea for this topic is to discuss about Frey’s bikes.

Indeed, so in that spirit I will give the latest update to our Frey order for 4 bikes that arrived last week (as I'm inland I have not picked up the one I ordered for She Who Must Be Obeyed yet, my friends near Vancouver have assembled and are riding theirs however).

One of the CC bikes had been ordered with a different style 'city' seat. When all 3 of the CC's arrived with the same seats (which apparently are quite satisfactory), our Frey rep 'Grace', offered to send another seat out to us. My friends report they have not encountered any other issues so far with the one EX and the two CC's that they assembled last week and are now riding. Apparently the EX has already had some programming tweaks applied, and they decided to not worry about the seat issue so Frey does not have to send anything in the end.

BTW, I did have a quick look at that used Haibike that was on the link above. I guess when it came out it was a respectable enough build. My thoughts were, "why would I want to spend $3,000.00 for a new Frey with drop-seat pre installed, when I could have a used bike for $3,000 with":
- a smaller rotor and single piston caliper on one of the wheels
- 8 speed groupset that a possibly inexperienced eBike rider learned to shift gears on and the consequences that can have on the motor and drivetrain.
- no options to tweak controller with programming
- outdated battery mount form-factor and unknown charge cycles on the battery, and apparent wear on the bottom of the battery where the edge is all chewed up:

- various nicks and scratches
- drop seat I have to install myself
- aftermarket (Rockbros Chinese BTW) chainstay clamp-on kick stand, instead of one that has an integrated kickstand bracket on the chainstay.

Again, why would I want to spend $3,000 on a new bike with better form factor and new components when I could have the thrill of discovering the consequences of getting a used bike? One word for that, and it is 'xenophobia'.

 

[barbarossa]

Second thing I’m getting is the Exess motherboard. Going to get Shimano-like smoothness coupled with Bafang’s lovely torque and raw power. What more can you dream of?

be sure to built a 52v battery with high current capabilities before and strong internal connections for Innotrace/Exess controller. there are several reasons for that. i think you have the Reention Dorado Max battery case (?) so 14s5p is possible (LG HG2, Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6 cells recommended).

I could testride an Exess HP-E200 prototype last week with Innotrace/Exess controller. and I changed my mind concerning the controller. IT IS FANTASTIC !!!!
I could talk with the developer of the controller - a really nice guy. he spent a lot of time to produce a perfect controller and in fact you don't feel the motor - you are thinking you are pedaling a normal non-ebike. it is hard to describe.

Exess HP-E200 protoype bike rides like a Frey EX - not much difference. of course both bikes look awesome… ok, to be honest the HP-E200 a little more awesome...

 

[FlyingFinn]

be sure to built a 52v battery with high current capabilities before and strong internal connections for Innotrace/Exess controller. there are several reasons for that. i think you have the Reention Dorado max so 14s5p is possible (LG HG2, Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6 cells recommended).

I could testride an Exess HP-E200 prototype last week with Innotrace/Exess controller. and I changed my mind concerning the controller. IT IS FANTASTIC !!!!
I could talk with the developer of the controller - a really nice guy. he spent a lot of time to produce a perfect controller.

Exess HP-E200 protoype bike rides like a Frey EX - not much difference. of course both bikes look awesome… ok, to be honest the HP-E200 a little more awesome...

Nice to hear! I was forced to switch to Exess due to a broken component on my motherboard. I’m going to stay on 1000 watts because I don’t want to rebuild my battery. Rather I’m gonna order ECO 0 to be configured to ultra low 100 watts assistance.

 

[Tom]

Yes, I've been singing the praises of the innotrace controller for the last month or so since I got it. Earlier this year I ordered a bike in development from Watt Wagons. The bike will not ship until end of year but they agreed to send my Ultra motor (with innotrace controller) early so I could test it on my Frey CC. It is incredible. Night and day difference. Smooth power delivery and much improved range. The torque sensing actually works well now as it should and responds immediately to pedal pressure. I highly recommend it!

If is unfortunate Frey cannot offer this controller to North American customers. My understanding is they had the controller to test since end of last year but were too busy to do anything with it. So they just sat on it and the opportunity to offer it in North America went to someone else. They really need to work out an agreement with the North American distributor to offer it, because quite honestly the stock Ultra is a bit of a letdown. I cannot stress how much better my Frey CC is now. I feel I have a world class ebike. Before it was a nice bike, but the motor was a power hungry beast with substandard torque sensing and unrefined power delivery. Now it's on par with any motor out there, I might even dare to say better.

Only real issue is front and rear light output is disabled until they can resolve some interference issues with the step down transformer to feed 12V for lights.

 

[barbarossa]

Yes, I've been singing the praises of the innotrace controller for the last month or so since I got it. Earlier this year I ordered a bike in development from Watt Wagons. The bike will not ship until end of year but they agreed to send my Ultra motor (with innotrace controller) early so I could test it on my Frey CC. It is incredible. Night and day difference. Smooth power delivery and much improved range. The torque sensing actually works well now as it should and responds immediately to pedal pressure. I highly recommend it!

If is unfortunate Frey cannot offer this controller to North American customers. My understanding is they had the controller to test since end of last year but were too busy to do anything with it. So they just sat on it and the opportunity to offer it in North America went to someone else. They really need to work out an agreement with the North American distributor to offer it, because quite honestly the stock Ultra is a bit of a letdown. I cannot stress how much better my Frey CC is now. I feel I have a world class ebike. Before it was a nice bike, but the motor was a power hungry beast with substandard torque sensing and unrefined power delivery. Now it's on par with any motor out there, I might even dare to say better.

Only real issue is front and rear light output is disabled until they can resolve some interference issues with the step down transformer to feed 12V for lights.

yep !!! but also Bafang does not seem to want a better solution for the costumers. instead of improving the controller Bafang reduces the original chain ring size from 44t to 42t to 40t. also max amps are reduced from nearly 30 amps (29.7 amps with controller v1.3) to around 28 amps with controller v1.5 - 6 (my own messurement - sport mode 9 with same Neptune 15s). so their original motors live a little longer - perhaps just longer than warranty will last but of course the display/ampere sensing was not adapted so display still shows 1500 watts but in fact you only have 1400 watts or less. that's business

 

[Ecyclist]

Are you saying that all plastics and rubber are the same?
There must be a reason why Chinese people prefer to buy Chinese made VW versus Chines brand cars.
There is definitely a reason why Chinese won't buy Chinese powder milk.

Or if you like to fix your car with bare handtools on your own buy a Lada.

Where’s the news? World is full of different ebikes and if you think some mark or model is profoundly shit why to bother discuss about it?

The idea for this topic is to discuss about Frey’s bikes. So far your one-liners haven’t added any value to this conversation.

You are dead wrong. I added value to this conversation. I made people think twice about buying something made by Chinese company that is not worth the money.
You already drooped a few thousand of dollars for inferior product and have to defend your bad choice, but others will think twice about doing the same thing. So, my job is done. Enjoy repairing your Chinese junk again and again and again. :lol:

 

[jeffdkeyes]

Wow - I'm surprised by the negative comments. I'm really liking what Frey is producing - Looks pretty cool to me I recognize I'm completely new to this, but so far so good.

Both bikes have shipped now!

 

[Durtdemon]

Are you saying that all plastics and rubber are the same?
There must be a reason why Chinese people prefer to buy Chinese made VW versus Chines brand cars.
There is definitely a reason why Chinese won't buy Chinese powder milk.

Or if you like to fix your car with bare handtools on your own buy a Lada.

Where’s the news? World is full of different ebikes and if you think some mark or model is profoundly shit why to bother discuss about it?

The idea for this topic is to discuss about Frey’s bikes. So far your one-liners haven’t added any value to this conversation.

You are dead wrong. I added value to this conversation. I made people think twice about buying something made by Chinese company that is not worth the money.
You already drooped a few thousand of dollars for inferior product and have to defend your bad choice, but others will think twice about doing the same thing. So, my job is done. Enjoy repairing your Chinese junk again and again and again. :lol:

Most of your haibike was made in Taiwan and some in China, ASSEMBLED in Germany. What is your point?

 

[tsellers]

I recognize I'm completely new to this, but so far so good.

Jeff, pretty soon, as the actual owner of 2 Frey bikes, you will be able to make an informed comment to any prospective buyers of Frey to help guide them on their decision making process. Added to this are the many informed posts from other credible forum members with respect to the common components such as the Bafang motors, controllers, displays, software, configuration tweaks, etc.

I think this catalog of information from unbiased and thoughtful forum members with real experience will be a lot more benefit to prospective buyers. Much more so than the random xenophobic opinions of someone that have no factual basis. Someone who may have tinkered with a component or two, posted a few opinions, and deemed themselves a specialist as a result, and never owned the brand in question, are probably not going to get much attention from buyers who are presently in a position such as you and I were a year ago.

I know that was the dynamic that lead me to get my first Frey last year. It was directly a consequence of watching a review that a user posted on Endless Sphere and Youtube. Then my experience with the M600 V2, then led to us buying 3 CC's and one EX this year. These decisions were not based on someone's opinion, they were based on someone's actual experience.

I'll be greatly looking forward to hearing of your real world experiences on a regular basis once your bikes are in your hands and being ridden.

 

[FREYebikes]

Hello Everyone,

We would like to have a small discussion topic about AM1000 color with you.
Now we have 3 color for AM1000 to choose as a standard offer, Matt black, yellow and blue.
And if someone would like to order some other color, you need to pay an extra cost to custom the color if possible to make it in our side.
See a picture of 3 standard offering colors for AM1000 below:


Now we are thinking to add some new color as a standard offer color for AM1000. for example, how do you think about orange color for AM1000? see a sample bike with orange color below.


How is your idea on the color for AM1000? We would like to hear your thinking on it for our reference.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang

 

[FlyingFinn]

Hello Everyone,

We would like to have a small discussion topic about AM1000 color with you.
Now we have 3 color for AM1000 to choose as a standard offer, Matt black, yellow and blue.
And if someone would like to order some other color, you need to pay an extra cost to custom the color if possible to make it in our side.
See a picture of 3 standard offering colors for AM1000 below:
AM1000 3 Color.jpg

Now we are thinking to add some new color as a standard offer color for AM1000. for example, how do you think about orange color for AM1000? see a sample bike with orange color below.
1 Orange AM1000.jpg

How is your idea on the color for AM1000? We would like to hear your thinking on it for our reference.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang

Very nice! Orange & black go really well together. On top of that this color increases your visibility and provides better safety.

 

[Durtdemon]

Hello Everyone,

We would like to have a small discussion topic about AM1000 color with you.
Now we have 3 color for AM1000 to choose as a standard offer, Matt black, yellow and blue.
And if someone would like to order some other color, you need to pay an extra cost to custom the color if possible to make it in our side.
See a picture of 3 standard offering colors for AM1000 below:
AM1000 3 Color.jpg

Now we are thinking to add some new color as a standard offer color for AM1000. for example, how do you think about orange color for AM1000? see a sample bike with orange color below.
1 Orange AM1000.jpg

How is your idea on the color for AM1000? We would like to hear your thinking on it for our reference.

Best Regards,
Ivy Wang

I like the orange. Hopefully that black am1000 in the middle of those bikes is mine.

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

Not a big fan of the color. I do however really like your grey color. Anyone else agree?

 

[FlyingFinn]

Not a big fan of the color. I do however really like your grey color. Anyone else agree?

Matte grey is awesome. Looks like a stealth fighter jet.

 

[jeffdkeyes]

Not a big fan of the color. I do however really like your grey color. Anyone else agree?

Matte grey is awesome. Looks like a stealth fighter jet.

That is EXACTLY what I thought!

Here's the choices that were offered. Totally makes sense to standardize the build colors as it take time to send out frames for paint.

 

[Tom]

I personally don't care for any of the colors. Blue is too pastel. "Regular Red"? Looks cheap. The red on my Frey CC looks phenomenal. Not sure why they don't use that color. The matte black works if you want a stealthier color. The yellow works if you are into neon. The orange? Reminds me of a Ford Pinto, and not in a good way.

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

Dude, you are so right regarding the Pinto. My granny had an orange one and it was in fact the ugliest car in her neighborhood.

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

I think to get their paint jobs to pop, Frey should follow the industry trend of a three coat system; base coat, then a clear coat with pearl suspended and lastly clear coat without pearl. The resulting glow would be superior to the rather uninteresting colors that are currently offered.

 

[NoFanBoiz]

Ugly orange. The matt grey is better. Having said that, custom colours was one the positive things Frey offered to stand out from the crowd. How much will the bikes or transport costs be reducing in line with the savings Frey will make on no longer doing custom colours?

 

[jeffdkeyes]

Ugly orange. The matt grey is better. Having said that, custom colours was one the positive things Frey offered to stand out from the crowd. How much will the bikes or transport costs be reducing in line with the savings Frey will make on no longer doing custom colours?

It sounds like Frey WILL continue to have custom colors, its just that there will be an upcharge.