Mystery Electric Bicycle / Moped / Scooter

[synthrider]

Hi guys,

I'm sorry for a bit of a double post here... this thing is in a weird class between bicycle and scooter (technically an electric bicycle) so I'm posting in both boards...

Here's the link:

http://voltageelectricvehicles.com/vehicles.html

It's the one on the bottom, the VM-500GT2 by Voltage Electric Vehicles, Corp. (the very generic sounding name doesn't help in searching for info)

Here's a link with better pictures: http://tiny.cc/9vcarw

I like the stats and everything, I'm just not sure about build quality... No reviews on the web that I've seen... Company around since 2011, out of Miami..

Any thoughts? What should I look for or ask about when I look at it?

Thanks!
-Synthrider

VM-500GT² Specs:

Vehicle Type:Electric Moped
Motor Type:Brushless
Motor Power:500 Watt
Brake:Front & Rear Drum
Lights:Headlights, Tail lights, Turn lights
Shock Absorbers:Front Hydraulic, Rear Spring
Storage:Glove Box, Under Seat, Double Trunk
Anti-Theft:Remote Alarm, Key lock, Stearing Lock, Lock & Chain
Performance:Top Speed:20 mph USA, 40 Km/h Export
Range:40 Miles / 65 Km
Capacity:2 People
Load:300 lbs / 136 Kios
Turning Angle:40 Degrees
Climbing Ability:15 Degrees
Battery Type:Gel Cell Sealed
Battery Voltage:48v (12v x 4)
Battery Capacity:20Ah
Recharge Time:6-8 Hours
Battery Life:1000 Full Charges
Size & Weight:Weight (net):165 lbs / 75 Kilos
Length:68 Inches / 172 Cm
Width:26 In / 66 Cm
Height:42 Inch / 107 Cm
WheelBase:47 Inch / 119 Cm
Seat Height:30 Inch / 76 Cm
Wheels:16 Inch
Tire Size:16 x 3.00

 

[geeeyejo1]

I would be wary of the build quality as well. The pedals on these are positioned to be just about non-functional and are put there just to classify this as an "Ebike" versus a "Scooter". Do you have the need to carry a passenger? Seems to be the only advantage to this versus a real "Ebike" With that said depending on you and your passenger's weight I would wonder how fast/far that 500w would take you. Not sure of the price but these typically are not cheap - guessing just under $1,500 - $2,000 USD? For that money you could build a really nice and functional bike yourself. If building is not your thing you could get a Prodeco Ebike that would likely be better built and more functional for you...

 

[geeeyejo1]

Sorry - just saw the price at $899 - even more "buyer beware" at that price. Assuming the batteries have to be SLA as a 48V 20AH lithium battery would cost nearly that much! Would question the validity of the range too if SLA. For that $899 pick up a good steel mountain bike from Craigslist or a yard sale, get a 500W or 1000W Yescom kit and a 48V15AH LIFEPO4 battery. Maybe a few $$ more (depending on the battery selection) but my guess is that you will have a better, faster. longer range and ultimately more reliable Ebike to use...

 

[ions82]

Wow. For $899, I would almost be tempted to buy it just for the frame and parts. I've been checking out some of the motors from John in CR, and it almost seems like buying something like that to build with would be a viable solution. Although, there's a good chance that the rest of the chassis isn't anything to write home about. If I were to go out and buy (from U.S. suppliers) all of the raw materials that make up that scooter, it would probably cost more than $899. Even if that thing is a clunker, I still can't believe what we can buy finished Chinese products for here in the U.S. It's mind-boggling.

 

[geeeyejo1]

Wow. For $899, I would almost be tempted to buy it just for the frame and parts. I've been checking out some of the motors from John in CR, and it almost seems like buying something like that to build with would be a viable solution. Although, there's a good chance that the rest of the chassis isn't anything to write home about. If I were to go out and buy (from U.S. suppliers) all of the raw materials that make up that scooter, it would probably cost more than $899. Even if that thing is a clunker, I still can't believe what we can buy finished Chinese products for here in the U.S. It's mind-boggling.

I think that the old adage holds true that "you get what you pay for" to a degree. Products from China definitely can provide value versus local US or European counterparts but most all of the quality Chinese kits coupled with a battery cost more than that entire Scooter. That has to speak to the overall quality of the components. I would hate to spend the $$ on a better hub motor, controller and battery and have the frame self destruct after a few hundred miles...

 

[sjacome]

around here in europe there is a boom on this scooped models. a friend of mine comutes on one like the pic. he is tall 1'95 meters and heavy 90 kg and he is very happy with it.

been womdering if for.the price of 700 euros plus a battery and controller update would be better than a bicycle plus hubmotor, controller and batt.

i think the real win is the small diameter wheels.


but now with mid drive kits are getting more affordable and more trustfull, my 24 x 3 wheels cromoly bmx would be a killer setup.

 

[geeeyejo1]

around here in europe there is a boom on this scooped models. a friend of mine comutes on one like the pic. he is tall 1'95 meters and heavy 90 kg and he is very happy with it.

been womdering if for.the price of 700 euros plus a battery and controller update would be better than a bicycle plus hubmotor, controller and batt.

i think the real win is the small diameter wheels.


but now with mid drive kits are getting more affordable and more trustfull, my 24 x 3 wheels cromoly bmx would be a killer setup.

I kind of dig the scooter models myself and would seriously think of one that looked more like a retro Vespa style scooter. Not at all practical for my usage though as I multi mode my commute by car/train/bike/ferry/bike. No way one of these babies is fitting in my SUV, would get me in trouble on the train if caught and most likely not be allowed on the Staten Island ferry no matter how hard I try to convince the security officers that it is a "bike". I think in most USA locations you are more subject to LE scrutiny on a "Scooter Style" Ebike versus a more stealth design. I guess a lot depends upon the needs of the OP - if portability is not an issue, if you need the ability to carry a second passenger and if you have no need to pedal then this might fit the bill...

 

[Dauntless]

These are two different bikes. You posted a picture and a link to an XB-502 clone while talking about the VM-500GT found at the other link. How similar? VERY, I could guess. But not identical.

Just a hunch, but I'd say it's possible the XB-502 clone is the better bike. Sort of looks as though more care went into it. Can't say with any certainty.

 

[synthrider]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. This forum is cool.

Any suggestions for how I can gauge quality (besides the price) would be appreciated. Anything I can ask the dealer or manufacturer that you can think of?

Dauntless: it's not an XB clone... that page has a typo in the text. If you look at the model name in the picture, its the Voltage VM-500GT2.

geeeyejo1: Yes the pedals are useless and in practice often removed and carried in the trunk as proof that its technically a "bicycle." It is indeed more likely to run into minor law enforcement issues (my friend got stopped maybe once a year), but once you explain what's what it's not an issue. These are legal to ride in bike lanes with no registration in all states, as far I know.

The batteries are SLA (they say "Gel Cell Sealed"). 46V 20amps (like the high amperage on these). Range really is probably something like 35mi - 40mi to start, but I have read that it decreases over time, especially if you don't get a chance to charge them right after riding.

I don't have a need for a passenger but I do lug around a lot of cargo (no car). I used my friend's similarly styled chinese eScooter/eBike recently and I put like 8 loads of laundry or something on it (including a huge hamper right on the floor) and took it to the laundromat. No probs and I rode it right into the place : ) Just as important, these are *comfy* ... I have issues with my back/neck/wrists and my work commute via legit eBicycle left me all tangled up in knots. It all comes down to what you need, as you said. I do like the eBicycles in their own ways. Thanks for the Prodeco tip - I will check it out (really I'd like to have one of each).

(For a more stylish eScooter thing, if you're curious check out the Jetson Bike - twice as expensive. Not sure if any good. http://www.jetsonbike.com/features/)

ions82: I'll let you know what I think of this frame if/when I check it out.

Thanks all. Welcome more thoughts : ) Still need to figure out if this is too much of a gamble or a good idea...

 

[dogman dan]

Much depends on where you live, and what the legal issues in your locale might be. Check your local laws, just in case you might not be allowed on a bike path you want to use. Same thing would apply if it looked like an ordinary bike anyway.

At that price, quality won't be extremely high. Above all, bear in mind that the stated range of it will not be what they say, if you ride faster than 5-10 mph. They do those range tests at a crawl. At most, 10 miles at 20 mph from the lead. Perhaps more when brand new, but likely to drop soon if you run the batteries down fully every ride.

 

[synthrider]

Thx dogman - exactly right and good advice... same rules apply as all electric bikes... all eBikes are legal here in FL wherever normal bikes are found, as long as they go under 20mph...

I definitely get the sense that ranges tend to be overstated... I would hope for a bit more than 10 miles at top speed, at least half the stated range would be nice... but even 10mi would be OK...

Besides not running the batteries down fully, the other thing I've picked up about these SLA type batteries is that they need to be recharged right away... I read somewhere that just 20-30 minutes after discharging a degradation process starts setting in (battery sulfating) so its really good to plug it in immediately.

The 1,000 cycles stated for this particular scooter is pretty high, I think. I will be optimistic and hope its accurate.

Any other thoughts guys? Any tips for how to kick the tires on this thing? I am going to look at it soon (its an hour drive from here).

 

[geeeyejo1]

Good luck! Kind of hard to see the build as a lot is covered by the fiberglass fairings. Sit on it, push up and down to get a feel for the suspension - assume they will let you "test drive" around the parking lot? Look at as much of the frame as you can - see if the welds look good - when new, sub par materials and/or any poor finish on frame will look good due to new paint - time and that Florida salt air will quickly uncover any corrosion issues. If you can try and get a look at a used model - maybe they have one that they use at the dealer - it will be a lot more telling than a new unit...

 

[synthrider]

geeeyejo1 Thanks man! That was the best advice I've heard yet. I'll look out for what you mentioned and see if they have a used one.

In other news, I finally found some videos of not quite this model but a similar one by the same manufacturer.


[youtube]eAAGs2EDyf8[/youtube]

[youtube]gIXO94lo27I[/youtube]
These guys sell them on ebay: http://tiny.cc/3jwdrw

For those curious, these lighter moped models are 12ah instead of 20ah, carry less weight, and are $100 - $150 cheaper here in Florida... at least one eBayer liked em but said they don't do great on "moderate hills." I'm hoping the 20ah scooter version will perform better, not that we have "moderate hills" in Florida... : )

Good luck! Kind of hard to see the build as a lot is covered by the fiberglass fairings. Sit on it, push up and down to get a feel for the suspension - assume they will let you "test drive" around the parking lot? Look at as much of the frame as you can - see if the welds look good - when new, sub par materials and/or any poor finish on frame will look good due to new paint - time and that Florida salt air will quickly uncover any corrosion issues. If you can try and get a look at a used model - maybe they have one that they use at the dealer - it will be a lot more telling than a new unit...

 

[Chalo]

Any thoughts?

Barf.

Have some dignity, man.

Those are my thoughts.

 

[dogman dan]

1000 cycles from lead? Maybe if the cycles are 25%. I killed some lead batts in less than 50 cycles with 100% discharges. They weren't completly dead, just lost 50% of thier capacity.

Yeah, plug in immediately if at all possible. Always keep lead topped up. 50% discharges are recomended as the maximum.

 

[synthrider]

1000 cycles from lead? Maybe if the cycles are 25%. I killed some lead batts in less than 50 cycles with 100% discharges. They weren't completly dead, just lost 50% of thier capacity.

Yah it sounds high... The battery type is "Gel Cell Sealed" - that's basically just SLA right?

They do say "Battery Life: 1000 Full Charges" ...

From what I gather about SLAs, it usually ranges from 300 cycles to 800 cycles depending on whether or not you baby them...

 

[geeeyejo1]

Did you go see it? What do you think?

 

[synthrider]

Did you go see it? What do you think?

It's an hour away and I don't have a car, so I have to line something up with my motorist friends. I haven't seen it yet but will post here when I do. Thx

 

[SamTexas]

The 1,000 cycles stated for this particular scooter is pretty high, I think. I will be optimistic and hope its accurate.

That's not optimism, that's fantasy. Measure the actual energy (Wh) you can get from the battery now while it's still new. Measure it again after 100 cycles. If you get 60% of what you have now, consider yourself lucky.

 

[dogman dan]

I'll just go on record, calling 1000 100% discharge cycles an outright lie. But,,,

They are surely talking about a discharge test using a rate that is a tiny tiny fraction of what the ebike uses. Capacity will of course diminish over time.

1000 cycles at 1/100th c rate, and 10% capacity left by cyles 999? plausible. But silly. Has notihing to do with the reality of on the road use.

You'll likely get 200-300 cycles if you are carefull about depth of discharge, which could be a year of use. Some on this forum have gotten good lifespans from lead. But it won't happen if you drain em 100% many times.

 

[amberwolf]

From what I gather about SLAs, it usually ranges from 300 cycles to 800 cycles depending on whether or not you baby them...

Based on my experiences, I think you have one too many zeros on those numbers.

 

[geeeyejo1]

Hey - look on the bright side - less time that you have to wait to convert her to LIPO or LIFEPO4 - increase your range and possibly power and lessen your GVW!

 

[synthrider]

Hey - look on the bright side - less time that you have to wait to convert her to LIPO or LIFEPO4 - increase your range and possibly power and lessen your GVW!

I was thinking the same thing

 

[synthrider]

For folks who were curious... I got this bike/scooter, came yesterday... I rode it once for about 5 miles... Here are some first impressions:

Good:
- Neat looking and nicely sized frame, a bit thinner and lighter than a standard scooter but not miniature by any means
- Good suspension. Ride feels nice.
- Comfortable seat...
- Adequate torque...
- Top speed for me was around 20mph (I am pretty light)... I passed one of those radar things but I forget what it said exactly, could've even been like 22mph..\
- It has a "double trunk" - there's another "secret" trunk under the obvious one which pops open with a button under the seat. Good for tools or mb even valuables etc...

- It has an insanely loud alarm... this is a weird feature to find on this scooter... Mb its cause the company is based in south Florida and markets these in Miami? Where there's maybe a lot of these type of things, and some maybe have the same keys? Or maybe this is an issue in China and a new trend in China? Anyway, I kind of like having it just for the "panic" button... I go through some shady parts of town at night where three people I know personally have been jumped while riding bikes... The alarm is seriously ear-piercing... if I managed to hit it in time it would definitely stun someone and maybe even send em running...

Bad:
- Fiberglass panels don't fit perfectly if you look close... aren't cut with the most precision... reflects the low price...
- Standard storage space is really minimal. Of course you can put stuff on the floor or strap something to the "passenger seat" behind you, but otherwise its pretty scant...Under the seat, the real trunk, and the "secret trunk" are all rather small storage spaces. I am going to try to attach some bags or something.

That's basically it for first impressions. I know some people snickered at it but its comfortable and serves a very particular utility for me.

 

[stone]

I have something like this, but with the smaller 2.125 tires and 350w motor for about 3 years. Its one of those bikes that has not given any problems. A negative point is that the battery on mine is sort of proprietary, it cannot fit the usual 20ah batts.