Need advice on new setup.

[michael.i@me.com]

Ok, I am pretty new to ES, so I will try and keep this simple.

I am 37, live in the sunny Okanagan of BC, Canada. It is kind of a hilly area and I want to ride my bike for my short trips around town. What I need it something that can climb hills and cruise on the flat. I am 6'1" and weigh around 255lbs. (big guy)

My first bike attempt was my full suspension SuperCycle from Canadian Tire. I bought a 500w front hub kit that came with everything in a box. It worked pretty good, but the way it was packaged and setup, the controller was inside the battery bag and overheated and burned out. they replaced it once, same thing happened again. So I decided to try this dual geared motor thing off of eBay that attaches to your front crank via a chain. It is sold as 900watt 48volt, and is supposed to be amazing because you can "use your gears" this sounded good to me, but it is tough to get all the things to line up well, because the motors mount to an aluminum plate that flexes under stress and causes the chain to slip. /sigh

So, back to the drawing board with my 20" folding bike. I love this little bike, so I thought what this thing needs is some electrics. I bought a 1000w rear hub motor kit mounted in a 20" rim. This thing gave me nothing but trouble from day one, never worked. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40779 Here is my post on that debacle.

So here is my question. What should I be looking at for something that has the POWER to do what I want? I have a good strong battery pack already that I switch between my two bikes right now, it is 48V 15ah Lifepo4 or whatever that is. cost me a bundle.

I thought that getting a 1000w, and mounting it in a smaller rim would make it stronger, but it really isn't that strong, although it goes pretty fast. read link above on the problems tho.

Is there a hub motor that is better for what I want to do? one that has average speed but tons of power? I prefer the nice quiet of the hub motor over the chain drive thing which is pretty noisey. (it is brushed motors)

I love to build these things myself. I find it fun. I just bought a brand new 40 Amp Infineon controller with regen/ebrake and matching CA.

I anxiously await your ideas.

Cheers in advance...

 

[wesnewell]

A 1000W hub motor with 40A controller in a 20" wheel should have tons of power. I run my 1000W in a 26" wheel with a 72V 40A controller without any problem and I weigh 270lbs. My motor has never gotten so hot I can't touch it, even when I've run it at 100V, but I've never ridden wot for more than a few minutes.

 

[amberwolf]

Ditto on the above. I run a "500W" 9C 2807 on CrazyBike2 witha 40A 12FET on "48V" pack that starts at 58.3V and tapers down to 54-56V in use, depending on load. CB2 plus me is over 300lbs, and I haul cargo with it or a trailer attached to it (or both) of at least that much sometimes, and commonly 100-200lbs.

Frequent stops/starts for traffic controls, mostly flat terrain, no pedalling, hard use of throttle (WOT until I'm at speed, usually, cruising at 20MPH).


Really, though, I think your system might just not be wired right, which I posted in your troubleshooting thread. It would be much easier if you kept all your troubleshooting and information in the *same* thread, though, so people could easily keep following your progress and continue to help you, instead of having to find whatever new threads you make for different aspects of the problems.

 

[dogman dan]

Quite possibly what you need is a slower winding motor, and run it on your existing battery and controller. It won't have more power, but it will climb hills without wasting as much of your power.

Perhaps Grin Cycles can supply you 2808 9 continent in a 20" rim. Or a crystalyte HT in a 20" rim.

As another point, if your 48v 15 ah battery is a typical 2c lifepo4, you ARE risking damaging it running a controller more than 30 amps. 15 amps x 2, 30 amps.

 

[dogman dan]

After a veiw of your other thread, maybe you just need to try some other phase /halls wire combinations. You might find one that works much better.

But, if you do climb steep hills enough with lots of wattage, you will normally heat up a motor quite a bit. The slower windings will have a slower top speed, but they will climb hills with less wasted heat. So more of the power you have reaches the rubber, and it can feel like more torque.

Again, you might want to tune down that wattage to 30 amps with your CA, once you have something running smooth. Your battery will appreciate it if it's 2c lifepo4.

 

[MadRhino]

You are in a very hilly area, and you are a heavy guy.
This makes for the need of a good build and proper tuning.
You have done a few that are not satisfying, now it's time to do the right thing.
A 20" wheel is a good idea since it will give you more torque and ease on the motor.
Find a fat tire for it, that makes a big difference.
You need a battery that can deliver enough current, I'd say 50A is the minimum target
A controller that can pull as much, of course
Run the voltage that makes your motor spin with no more than 30% above your average riding speed

Chose a strong stiff large frame, build with those specs and you will be happy with the bike :wink:

You could do even better. Your area also makes it easy to source used DH racing bikes.
I'd be quick to find one and run it 150A

 

[michael.i@me.com]

It would be much easier if you kept all your troubleshooting and information in the *same* thread, though, so people could easily keep following your progress and continue to help you, instead of having to find whatever new threads you make for different aspects of the problems.

I thought that this may come up, but I saw this as two different problems, each belonging in the proper section. One was very technical, and the other was just about my personal history and needs for the future.

I wasn't trying to get any technical advice in this general post, just some ideas on a good setup for me.

ps, I plan to maintain all my threads on ES, this place is awesome!

Michael

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah, as Madrhino says, you won't be perfectly happy till you have spent a lot more money, like the rest of us RC lipo addicted suckers have.

FWIW, once quick fix for your current motor might be a moderate powered 20 amp sensorless controller. Maybe that motor has a funky hall sensor, or bad wiring to the sensors. But up steep hills, the motor will heat up unless you pedal harder. Below 15 mph, your motor just becomes a incandesent heater.

 

[michael.i@me.com]

I am trying to figure out what I should build next. Now that I have one successful build under my belt, and one semi successful one, I feel like I not have a handle on where and what to buy to make things go well together.

Ebikes.ca have been super so far. The had reasonable prices, and wicked fast shipping. and no, I have no affiliation with ebikes.ca whatsoever, just a happy customer.

Can anyone chime in on front hub motor vs rear hub motor? I just did a rear one and like it, however it is going to be a super PITA to change the tube or tire. I did a previous build with a front hub motor and it was way simpler to change rubber.

Is there any major advantage one way or another? I have read that some people choose rear over front due to bending the rim on bumps and such, but wouldn't the rear wheel be subject to the same bumps as the front, just a half second later?

I think that front would help balance out the weight a little also. Thoughts?

Can't wait to hear what you have to say, Cheers!

Michael

 

[Ykick]

Read more. Quite a few tube/tire repair and flat preventive threads. Maybe they're buried? I try not to remove the tire for a simple patch. Most cases can pull the tube out enough to get decent patch adhesion.

Also, plenty of front/rear motor debate over the years and that's gonna come down to your personal choice. I've built and ride both types and at the end of the day rear motor simply feels more natural. It's very odd having a "heavy" front wheel but it does work mostly fine and in some cases offers better weight distribution.

 

[michael.i@me.com]

Well I just got back from a 2am 15km ride to test out my final wiring setup. (I cleaned everything up nicely)

I have come up with a point to my own question after the ride, concerning front vs rear motor. I find that with the read wheel, when I take off from a dead stop there is a feeling like it wants to "wheelie" Having a front motor this would not happen.

Just a thought here...


Michael

 

[dogman dan]

Let me guess where you have your battery. On my commuter bikes, I have prefered front hub motors on most of them because they balance the bike if I carry the battery on a rear rack. I may carry up to 50 pounds on the rack and in the panniers. So a rear motor just makes that unbalance even worse.

A proper rear hub motor bike carries the battery more forward, idealy in the frame triangle. Or in the same location like saddlebags if there is no frame triangle.

Rear hub is pretty much mandatory for off road riding, or dual hub.

At about 3 hp, front hub motors get very sketchy with bicycle tires. Too much front wheel drifting. Many of us like about that much power or more on a dirt ride. No watt limits off road after all.

My commuter bikes are much lower powered, sub 1000w. But the front wheel still spins a bit leaving a stop sign. No biggie unless it's real wet out.

 

[michael.i@me.com]

I find myself "searching" the throttle for the absolute first point of power so it doesn't happen.

Led me to wonder, if the voltage range of a throttle is 1-4.1 volts or whatever, could I possibly wire something in parallel to my throttle that gave it that 1 volt, or whatever the minimum is as a starting mode? just a button that say move at the lowest speed possible?

This would also be handy for when I am riding beside my dog after a long run(he's old )

has anyone done something like this before?

 

[michael.i@me.com]

After a veiw of your other thread, maybe you just need to try some other phase /halls wire combinations. You might find one that works much better.

But, if you do climb steep hills enough with lots of wattage, you will normally heat up a motor quite a bit. The slower windings will have a slower top speed, but they will climb hills with less wasted heat. So more of the power you have reaches the rubber, and it can feel like more torque.

Again, you might want to tune down that wattage to 30 amps with your CA, once you have something running smooth. Your battery will appreciate it if it's 2c lifepo4.

I have set my Cycle Analyst to cap out the amperage to 30a

It is working great within these limits.

Thanks

 

[mark5]

I find myself "searching" the throttle for the absolute first point of power so it doesn't happen.

Led me to wonder, if the voltage range of a throttle is 1-4.1 volts or whatever, could I possibly wire something in parallel to my throttle that gave it that 1 volt, or whatever the minimum is as a starting mode? just a button that say move at the lowest speed possible?

This would also be handy for when I am riding beside my dog after a long run(he's old )

has anyone done something like this before?

Is this what you want:
Single Speed Cruise Switch?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19002

If not using E-S's search, you can use google to search by entering "site:endless-sphere.com/forums/ whatever words you want" in google's text box.

Edit to add: that thread leads to searching about how cruise control works and a couple of relevant posts by methods:
Re: Cruise Control
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=16843#p246451
Re: CA Current Throttle Usefulness? Experience?
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35031&start=15#p550401

According to ebikes.ca website your controller already has a cruise function that can be solder-jumpered but it probably doesn't work how you want. Besides, you'd need to unjumper reverse to make it work.

I wouldn't know anything about e-bikes but what I could search to learn.