Need ebike recommendations for mountain logging road use

[Tom]

Thanks again for all the help. I think I've narrowed it down to 2 options. If you guys were in my shoes which way would you go?

1) 2 Crystalyte Cannon Conversion Kits
Pros: All wheel drive. 2 x 500 watt power. 2 x 10ah battery.
Cons: Weight (2 x 42 pounds + heavy steel frame bike)
Cost: $1390 + shipping + bike

2) Puma Kit w/ 35 amp controller and 15 ah lipo battery
Pros: Much lighter (24 pounds + bike). More bike options (no front fork torque issues).
Cons: Less combined power and battery. Trickier install?
Cost: $1400 + shipping + bike

 

[Rassy]

Tom, here's my 2 cents worth. I currently run three basic WE BD36's on 20" wheels from one throttle (3 controllers, to let 35 amps per motor through). I think the motors really support each other, in more than just a linear sense. Acceleration, with 420 pounds gross, is 0 to 20 (top speed) in about 5 seconds. I pull up a 15 to 20% grade at 10 to 15 MPH with just moderate pedaling effort. Weight isn't a big issue for me, because I carry the sla's in the trailer, but my system could easily be improved by upgrading to better battery chemistry and by increasing to 48 Volts.

Anyway, if I was putting a two wheel bike together for myself, I would go the two hub motor route. I would probably start with a 36 Volt system to keep the battery size and wight down, regardless of chemistry. Then if more power and/or speed was needed I would upgrade to higher voltage.

 

[agent86]

ATIV only sells rear wheel kits, I believe (though you can always call and ask.) So you might have to buy a front one from ev-tech and piece togther the rest of the parts from ATIV, ev-tech &/or ebikes.ca.
You could mount 1 battery in the frame triangle (part of the kit from ATIV) and then ATIV sells a mount for $50 that goes only on OMM rear racks (about $100) So if a bit over $150 for a good rear rack + battery mount makes sense to you, that's a neat way to go. (you can still hang panniers on that rear rack.) Or if you have a rack already maybe you can come up with either your own mount or a way to connect their mount to your rear rack.

Don't want to discourage you but it will be a bit more involved than just ordering 2 kits from ATIV if you go the dual cannon route.

 

[xyster]

Tough choice. If I was in your shoes, but with my present e-bike experience, I'd go the dual-Cannon/dual-controller route, but skip the NiMH batteries in favor of the Li-poly's.

If I wasn't in your shoes, I'd also choose dual 40 amp controllers instead of dual 20 amp controllers, build an 80 volt/80 amp capable lithium battery pack, then skip the hikes and just have a blast around the hills all day.

That's basically the system I originally had in my mind for my bike. But alas, economic reality had other plans for me....

 

[Tom]

What would be the advantage of Li-polys for the dual hub setup? It's going to be a fairly heavy setup with either battery so I can't imagine saving weight is the issue?

As far as biking instead of hiking. Well, you can't go places like this. Maybe with an electric helecopter someday. :wink:

 

[agent86]

Given Tom's budget and his relatively low concern for top speed I wonder if a Lashout or Electrec type bike would fit the bill. Something under $1000 for the bike, perhaps with a larger sprocket on the motor side for better torque, then a battery upgrade since the SLA's wouldn't take kindly to not getting recharged right away. Maybe just the 24V, 18AH pack from ebikes.ca? Or the lithium from Cyclone? Or 36V?

... Does anyone have experience with these bikes? I know they don't use the greatest bike components, but are they durable and maintainable?

 

[Tom]

Looks like I could get the 2006 version of the Lashout for $800 and add 2 of the 24v 10ah LiFePO4 electric batteries on ebay for $550. Might be a relatively inexpensive option for me if the Lashout has decent hill climbing ability.

 

[Tony]

I would keep it simple. Try the rear puma- if your willing to pedal the stock 15 amp controller will get you up hill easily with minimal sweat at 37 volts. I'm running the puma with the 35 amp and 48 volts and can make it up just about any hill in reason without pedaling. With the 15 amp controller I did have to do some light pedaling on the same type hills. I also think the elec-trek would be a great idea.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tony, can you expand on the elec-trec bike and why you think it's a great idea? Would you make any mods other than the batteries? I am wondering if the base bike would have enough hill climbing power.

Also, on the puma, what are your thoughts at running it at 37v instead of 48v with the 35a conroller? Would you recommend 48v if I go with the 35a controller?

 

[Tony]

The reason I like the lash out/electrec for your situation is the gearing- seeing that hills are a major concern- and it's a "ready to go" bike with dual suspention- no searching around for a bike and then fitting a kit to it- sure it's not going to be a 30mph powerhorse (thats the downside). I think you can upgrade those motors with a controller from powerpack motors and run 36-48 volts to them.

the 37v with the 35a controller would give great hill climbing ability and about a 20-22 top end with the puma, you will get addicted and want more power of course. The puma realy wakes up at 48+ volts, I added a 6v to my 48v pack for 53 volts and it's quite impressive, about 30-32 mph and it getd there quickly too. Either way at 35 amps the 36/37v or 48v with the puma is great for hills, just depends on your budget- if you can afford it go for maximum voltage.

 

[Tom]

So the lashout/electrec is a geared motor? Or is it just geared for lots of torque/not much speed?

 

[Tony]

Its only geared on the outside with sprockets- from what I understand these bikes are favorable for thier torque with the MAC brushless motor- (I've never driven one ) so you may want to find a review on that bike to be sure. Just seemed like a good idea because of the price. If you like to tinker and tweak and have the money go for the puma.

 

[Tom]

FWIW, the puma kit does not appear to be in stock anywhere. Called both thesuperkids and evtech and they say they're out and don't know when they'll be getting more from China. Also, I was told by evtech that they don't recommend using the 35a controller as it tends to kill the lipo battery even though the battery is rated to 40a. They most they recommend is the 25a controller. Moot point I suppose since I can't find the puma in stock.

I've also been looking at gas powered kits. Other than the potential noise, looks to be a far more cost effective option and may better suited to my needs.

 

[Tony]

before you give up on the electric- you could get a 400 series crystalyte and lace it to a 20 inch wheel which would provide good torque , check out this bike for reference. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/744

 

[agent86]

There's a guy who makes a very intersting case for gas powered bikes being more economical, maybe even better environmentally than electric.
It's interesting to see the (not insurmountable) difficulties he ran into along the way with one of those motorized kits ... he seems to have kind of petered out in his enthusiasm. I don't know if that speaks to more than just the fact that the bike he used wasn't ideal for the conversion, or if the kit was really inherently problematic. Might be worth shooting him an email asking him about it if you can:
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcimper/assorted/inanities/recumbent/moto_bike_page/motorized_bicycle.html

I'm intrigued by the new Staton Inc kits that work through the gearing range of a CVT hub - that would cetainly have the torque to pull you up any hill. The CVT hub _might_ help you minimize the anoying tiny engine reving noise of a small ICE engine too.