Need Help Finding E-Bike With Features I want

[icerider]

I had hoped that Trek still made their Bionx-based electrics.

It appears that they have changed over to Bosch. This one is pretty expensive but has many of the features you wanted and is a "turn key" system:
https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/hybrid-bikes/electric-hybrid-bikes/xm700/xm700-lowstep/p/25106/

I have an old Trek Valencia+ (which has the Bionx-based Ride+ system). The Bions PL350 on it will put out up to about 700W if wanted.

Mine has a very simple little throttle but I never remember that it is there. The Bionx torque-based assist works so well that it is exactly like riding a non-electric but with "bionic" legs. I don't remember the last time I used the throttle.

I presume the Bosch system would have a similar level of integration and behave similarly. The advertised speed is good and the 400Whr battery is pretty good but I am not sure it will get you 30 miles with heavy usage in hilly terrain.

In any case, if there is a Trek store near you they might have one of these to try or perhaps one of its 3 Bosch-equipped cousins. I have had nothing but good interactions with the Trek store here in Tucson so it is at least possible that your Trek store would be willing to make small mods and things like that.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I looked at several of the Trek biked based on your link - they have them locally in Saratoga. The ones I'd consider "OK" are too expensive for me. The $2300 bikes might pass muster as well, but...no suspension at all? I also think that the big problem I'd have with torque-only or cadence-only assisted bikes is that my legs would hurt just providing the mild initial boost needed. As it is I ALWAYS use the throttle to get moving, and then switch to PAS only when at speed. I always pedal, but my legs are usually "following" the assist, rather than "leading" it. On a good day a Trek would probably work fine, but on a bad day I'd be cursing my stupidity for spending that much to get less than I have with the bike that I have now.

Keep the links coming, though folks! I can still click on links, anyway!

 

[LeftieBiker]

It's looking like I'll have to do a conversion of my spare EZIP step-thru to get what I want (but with steel frame and hardtail). Thinking about that, it became obvious that I'll have to take the hubmotor route. Why? Because I have to pull the rear wheel and motor from the bike anyway, if only because the tube doesn't hold air and it's just as hard to unbolt and remove the motor with the wheel on anyway. That's enough of a PITA that I don't want to have to remove the crank as well and install a mid-drive. So what are the best geared-but-quiet hubmotors in the 750-1000 watt range? Magnum sells theirs as a kit, but with thumb throttle only - I want a half twist throttle as a kit option. I'm looking for something with either a good 10+AH battery included, or a plug & play pack available from the same site. I'd also want a 7 speed Shimano wide range cluster of some sort, so I can keep the stock derailleur, and a disk brake kit for at least the rear wheel.

I'm still hoping that I can just BUY A DAMNED BIKE but that isn't looking as likely...

 

[amberwolf]

If you have to use a kit to upgrade your existing setup, then uf you go with Grin Tech ebikes.ca, you can configure the kits the way you want (if it doesn't show the options you like on the page, they can provide or modify stuff for you; just contact sales@ebikes.ca ).

So, for instance, they have a eZee front hub kit here
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-kits/geared/front-ezee-kit-advanced.html
that you can have PAS and throttle; you can use just a regular PAS magnet ring sensor (just senses pedal rotation; easy enough to put on existing cranks/BB) or you can use a torque-sensing BB (harder to install, have to take cranks/BB off and put cranks back onto new BB). I think they even have a PAS magnet ring that comes in two pieces so you don't have to take any cranks off at all to put the ring on. Like this one
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/torque-sensors/pas-12p-chr.html

They have different throttles available too, like this half twist slim one
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/throttles/t-htwist-slim.html

Or a lefthanded one
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/throttles/t-lhtwist.html

You can pick your options at the bottom of the page. or call them up and talk to them or email them to work out what you need.

They may even have 24volt-capable controllers to work with your existing battery.

They also carry batteries that are plug and play with their kits, if you can't get a controller from them to work with the one you have.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm looking for a rear hub with real power - the EZIP has a cheap front suspension and isn't suitable for a front hub unless it's 250 watt. (I once thought about doing a dual drive setup with a 250 watt front hub and the EZIP rear drive so I could ride quietly on level ground, but I'm past that now.) I'm kind of biased against Grin Tech because of experiences with them years ago: I bought a CA from them for my ZEV 5000 motorcycle, only to learn that the damned thing had to be modified internally just to be able to read speeds above something like 25MPH. Grin just shrugged it off and wouldn't take it back. I never used it. What geared hubs do they use, what manufacturer? Or is it multiple brands?

 

[amberwolf]

I'm looking for a rear hub with real power -

Then this one
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-kits/geared/ezee-rear-kit-advanced-pas.html
is the same in a rear. The eZee is basically like the MAC and BMC, capable of 1000w; I have an older v1 I'm setting up as the left wheel of my brother's trike (with a similar old Fusin on the right side); with the right controller it ought to be able to quickly accelerate the trike.

On the left side of the page, they have a category for "all geared hub kits" if you want to look thru them. Or just ask their sales department to help you pick the specific bits and bobs to make a kit up out of the various things you need, that will do as exactly what you want as is possible with what they have.

I'm kind of biased against Grin Tech because of experiences with them years ago: I bought a CA from them for my ZEV 5000 motorcycle, only to learn that the damned thing had to be modified internally just to be able to read speeds above something like 25MPH. Grin just shrugged it off and wouldn't take it back.

That's kinda wierd; I hadn't heard of them not taking stuff back that's unused. Heck, they even sent me some capacitors and resistors and stuff to fix a couple CAs that Dogman gave me (after they got fried in experiments IIRC); the CAs wouldn't've been in warranty even before I got them....

(I also hadn't heard of that speedo problem; I wonder what version that CA was?)

Anyway, myself, I'd trust Grin over any of the other places I've dealt with directly or known of dealings with either thru this forum or others, or people I know that dealt with other places. Radpower seems ok too, based solely on what I know of Cvin's (member here) dealings with them (however, Radpower doesn't seem to be all that hot on customizing things, unlike Grin). I can't think of any others off the top of my head that I'd personally spend money at. (Grin is the only one I've done that with so far).


Nobody's perfect, of course. Grin's been slow answering email sometimes, but mostly I'm pestering them about stuff that doesn't make them any money, so I'm not worried about it and understand. I'm sure there are problems with them I've never heard of, just like there's lots of people happy with other sellers I wouldn't touch with a 10-mile-long pole. :lol:


There are things I wish they carried that they don't, and I have a number of feature wishes for the CA that they probably won't implement (not anytime soon, anyway), but I can't realy hold that against them since I'm a definite outlier in how I want stuff to work vs how everyone else does.

(for instance, like you, I don't want to hurt trying to startup the trike from a stop (especially when pulling a heavy load, like the dogs, or a trailer full of dog food or piano). But I don't want to *have* to use a throttle for that, I want to be able to startup purely from a torque-sensor on the pedals detecting me push on them, without having to detect any rotation of them...but presently that's not an option unless I add some hardware to fake out the rotation input--but I still want it to detect my rotation and do speed control based on that...so.... Anyway, it's not something wanted by anyone else I know of, so no demand for the feature so no reason for Grin to spend the money/time on making it).

What geared hubs do they use, what manufacturer? Or is it multiple brands?

Grin? They carry several types; what they carry changes over time as they work out new systems, as new stuff comes out or old stuff becomes unavailable. Sometimes they work out custom deals with manufacturers for better equipment than what that mfr would normally make (there's a thread about a possible new axle and torque arm setup).

What they have now is listed on their site under the kits section and the motor section.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I priced out a system last night: geared hub with controller, half throttle, PAS sensor, torque arm, brake cutoff, etc. $953 without a battery, $1600 with a good 52 volt pack. The biggest problem for me with them, now, may be that I don't want the CA to be my control interface. I don't like that '80's looking washed out LCD display, and making you pay extra just to be able to change the settings on it??? I'm not saying I wouldn't buy from them, just that I'll be looking around for a bit longer.

Have you tried starting out with a throttle? It's GREAT! Maybe not so much with a thumb throttle, but a good half twist throttle really gives you fine control over acceleration, and lets you add just the right amount of power as needed.

 

[wturber]

I don't like that '80's looking washed out LCD display, and making you pay extra just to be able to change the settings on it??? I'm not saying I wouldn't buy from them, just that I'll be looking around for a bit longer.

By all means, buy what you like. But to characterize the CA as making you pay extra "just to be able to change the settings on it" isn't a very good description. The CA v3 is a complete control center for running your ebike.

 

[amberwolf]

The biggest problem for me with them, now, may be that I don't want the CA to be my control interface.

They might carry controllers that have their own LCD unit that sets the cotnroller's internal settings instead (like with some of the other kits by other vendors); you'd ahve to ask them if they're not listed on the site.

FWIW, the CA is generally capable of a lot more settings than most of the others. That can make it more complicated to setup, but can often be fine-tuned to your particular needs better than the generic controllers with their LCDs (whose available settings vary widely from one to another, even when they look identical). But the way each system works is different, both between various LCD/controller sets, and those and the CA itself, so I guess it depends on the features you want which one would do the job best.

If there were a generic controller out there that did the things I want, without any display at all, I'd personally prefer that, and I'd just have a regular speedometer on the bars, and a CA as just a power meter and statistics keeper down in the battery box. So far the only one I know of that does most of what I want is the Lebowski design, which is a very DIY controller at this point (I'm still building a pair...).

I don't like that '80's looking washed out LCD display,

Can't argue with the "'80's look" statement (personally I prefer the more basic simple look) but the CAs I've had aren't washed-out (at least, not to me). The large-screen versions they use now are a lot more readable for my older eyes than the small screens, though.

Below stuff gets back into more DIY, which I know you're trying to avoid.

If you don't want the CA up there on the bars, you can run it off somewhere else on the bike, and simply have a switch (or knob, or both) on the bars running to it to switch modes, if you needed to do that, and have the CA setup to change things based on your needs. (I haven't finished working out the settings, but I have a 3-position switch to change between 3 presets, that give me a max-power mode for hauling really heavy stuff, an eco-mode that conserves power as much as possible while leaving enough to be safe in traffic, and a typical PAS-only mode to experiment with and see how useful it can be. But I could use that switch to change things other than presets like that if I wanted to set it up that way).



I don't know how advanced it is, and there'd be at least some DIY, but there's at least one project that lets you plug a bluetooth transciever into the CA's serial port, and run an app on your phone or tablet, that then displays the various CA info you choose onto the phone or tablet instead of the CA. I'd have to find the link to the thread.

and making you pay extra just to be able to change the settings on it???

Not sure what you mean by that--you can go thru the menus on any version of the CA and change just about any setting you like. It's easier to configure using the computer program (free) and the USB cable (extra cost) but it's not required on any of the CAs I have. Unless they have setup the CA that comes with those kits to be different

Have you tried starting out with a throttle? It's GREAT! Maybe not so much with a thumb throttle, but a good half twist throttle really gives you fine control over acceleration, and lets you add just the right amount of power as needed.

Yes, I ride with two throttles already (thumb throttles, one for each motor, because they prevent me from accidentally accelerating when I handle the trike by the grips, and are easier for me to control with), but my hands randomly go numb, more often when I am gripping something in one position, so I'm trying to work out a pedal-controlled system that will do everything for the times my hands aren't working right. I can still do things with my hands, but I have to look to see what I'm doing because I can't feel them when it happens; might be one hand or the other or both, and lasts for random amounts of time. It happens a lot less if I'm not holding a throttle in position. Cruise control isn't an option becuase of traffic/etc. (tried that)

 

[LeftieBiker]

and making you pay extra just to be able to change the settings on it???

Not sure what you mean by that--you can go thru the menus on any version of the CA and change just about any setting you like. It's easier to configure using the computer program (free) and the USB cable (extra cost) but it's not required on any of the CAs I have. Unless they have setup the CA that comes with those kits to be different

I think I just misunderstood the option for "Include Auxiliary Input (for changing presets or limits)". This is just a larger button set to make selections easier, I guess. Anyway, that kit with a 52V Panasonic battery was over $1500. The two speed geared hubmotor kit is much cheaper, but as with so many of their options, the 26" wheel is out of stock. Seriously, all of this is making me lean back towards buying a whole bike, and then trying to change/rearrange the controls. I still find it hard to believe that the 'throttle on right, shifter on left' setup is dead. Is this because of EU regs...?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Rather than spend $1600+ for a kit (with some parts out of stock) from Grin that doesn't thrill me, I think I'd rather spend $1k (plus brakes) for this kit from magnum that almost thrills me: https://www.magnumbikes.com/product/magnum-bikes-r2-conversion-kit/ Does anyone know if twist throttles can just be spliced into thumb throttles? This kit, installed on my EZIP step-thru, would give me most of what I need. I'm assuming I could put a Shimano 7 speed wide ratio gear cluster on one side, and a big disk brake on the other...? Opinions?

 

[reset456]

I'm a former keen cyclist (road primarily) who had to stop cycling following medical advice. Basically, I have a severe chondromalacia patella and cannot cycle up hill or stand on the peddles. I've tried a peddle assist bike, but as I should not cycle at all up hill (it is to do with the slightly more acute knee bend), I need a throttle only for the hills, but would like to have peddle assist on the flat. I gather there is no over the counter bike that will give me those options ... although even if there was, I'm told 250 watts is the maximum available in a mid-drive bike. So I figure I am going to have to fit a kit. I don't yet have a bike to fit it to, but prefer full suspension as I'll get off-road occasionally.

I'm 6'3"
170lb
would like at least 25 mph top speed
Not really budget constrained - can spend USD7-8K if needed (XT or XTR group set?)
Disc brakes prefered
Mid-drive
Rims: is 26 standard on a mountain bike?
I'd like a range of at least 40 miles if I could get this ... say at least 35 miles on throttle only?

Cheers
Mark

 

[docw009]

Rather than spend $1600+ for a kit (with some parts out of stock) from Grin that doesn't thrill me, I think I'd rather spend $1k (plus brakes) for this kit from magnum that almost thrills me: https://www.magnumbikes.com/product/magnum-bikes-r2-conversion-kit/ Does anyone know if twist throttles can just be spliced into thumb throttles? This kit, installed on my EZIP step-thru, would give me most of what I need. I'm assuming I could put a Shimano 7 speed wide ratio gear cluster on one side, and a big disk brake on the other...? Opinions?

Nice kit, in my opinion. You get the nice molded connectors. Sure, if your friend knows how to solder, it's easy to splice a $10 twist throttle into the thumb throttle cable. Just three wires.

Personally, I don't see a need to spend $100+ on a CA display either. My favorite e-bike has no LCD at all. although I mounted a small speedometer.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm a former keen cyclist (road primarily) who had to stop cycling following medical advice. Basically, I have a severe chondromalacia patella and cannot cycle up hill or stand on the peddles. I've tried a peddle assist bike, but as I should not cycle at all up hill (it is to do with the slightly more acute knee bend), I need a throttle only for the hills, but would like to have peddle assist on the flat. I gather there is no over the counter bike that will give me those options ... although even if there was, I'm told 250 watts is the maximum available in a mid-drive bike. So I figure I am going to have to fit a kit. I don't yet have a bike to fit it to, but prefer full suspension as I'll get off-road occasionally.

I'm 6'3"
170lb
would like at least 25 mph top speed
Not really budget constrained - can spend USD7-8K if needed (XT or XTR group set?)
Disc brakes prefered
Mid-drive
Rims: is 26 standard on a mountain bike?
I'd like a range of at least 40 miles if I could get this ... say at least 35 miles on throttle only?

Cheers
Mark

There should be quite a few bikes that will give you what you need, as long as you don't share my preferences for controls. If your knees are that bad, though, you might want to consider a big geared hub motor instead of a mid drive.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Rather than spend $1600+ for a kit (with some parts out of stock) from Grin that doesn't thrill me, I think I'd rather spend $1k (plus brakes) for this kit from magnum that almost thrills me: https://www.magnumbikes.com/product/magnum-bikes-r2-conversion-kit/ Does anyone know if twist throttles can just be spliced into thumb throttles? This kit, installed on my EZIP step-thru, would give me most of what I need. I'm assuming I could put a Shimano 7 speed wide ratio gear cluster on one side, and a big disk brake on the other...? Opinions?

Nice kit, in my opinion. You get the nice molded connectors. Sure, if your friend knows how to solder, it's easy to splice a $10 twist throttle into the thumb throttle cable. Just three wires.

Personally, I don't see a need to spend $100+ on a CA display either. My favorite e-bike has no LCD at all. although I mounted a small speedometer.

One thing that worries me about the kit is that I'd have to remove, what, one of the pedal arms to install the cadence sensor? The EZIP already has one, but I assume it has too few magnets. I want to avoid having to do much work on the crankset. Grin has a nice-looking split unit that installs on the chainring, but of course it's out of stock. How universal are cadence sensors?

Going back to whole bikes for a moment: I had just about talked myself into the Rad City Step-Thru, but realized that the DD motor probably couldn't handle the big hills on my route, which again leaves me just the Magnum Metro, with it's ass-backwards controls and highest pricetag. And it's out of stock, of course. If I could get the geared motor from the Rad Rover in the Step-Thru I'd be Golden...

 

[LeftieBiker]

This evening I screwed my courage to the sticking place and ordered the Magnum conversion kit. The final push for me was reading the installation manual, and seeing that the cadence sensor is split, so it installs with cranks fully intact. Now I need suggestions on Kevlar-armored tires for front and (especially!) rear, and disk brake kits, maybe hydraulic, maybe cable. My riding is 95% pavement, 5% dirt trails and grass. The semi-slicks that came with the EZIPs have worked ok for me, and the Kenda partial knobbies I put on one bike also worked fine, with just a bit more noise on pavement than I prefer. So I guess I want a hybrid tread pattern. It would help if they gave a tire range for the wheel in the kit, but I'm assuming that a 26 x 2.0 tire would fit. Oh, and what self-sealing tubes work best, with no adverse side effects like vibration (or failure)?

 

[Chalo]

Slicks work fine on pavement, dirt trails, and grass. They're quiet and efficient.

Every kind of liquid sealant treats your tube's air valve as a puncture. It will also pollute the head of your pump. Sealant makes punctures messy and difficult to patch and it clumps up inside the tube over time. The best puncture protection by far is a good puncture resistant tire, not any kind of add-on to a tire.

On the pedicabs, we've been using WTB ThickSlick Flat Guard 29x2.1". It also comes in 26x2.0". If you're phobic about smooth tires, the WTB Cruz Flat Guard is similar and has a tread pattern to ease your mind.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I haven't used slime or other sealants yet for just those reasons. Since I've had zero flats in 5 years, I guess I'll take your advice. Not necessarily on the tire, though. Look at the one amazon review of the treaded tire and it says that it's not very true... I want a tire that will be smooth, long-lived and quiet, resist flats, and have some decent grip on all surfaces.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Ah, drop-ship retailers! When I ordered the rear hub kit from Magnum, the listing read "In Stock" (can be backordered). The shopping cart didn't appear amiss, so I paid with PayPal, got a receipt, and then...an email from Magnum thanking me for my "Back order" and saying they'd let me know when it was back in stock. I paid extra for flat rate priority shipping, too. So the site is virtually sold out of actual merchandise, and they appear to have resorted to trolling for back orders with a misleading listing for the kit. (It has since been changed.) I told them that if they can't get it within two weeks, I wanted a refund. We'll see. At least I used PayPal...

 

[LockH]

Haven't read this thread entirely, but to start "a bit slow and heavy, very noisy, and lack real suspension and good brakes. I'd like to get myself..."

Suggest priorities being braking. Followed by "noisy" (a strange concept, having ridden electrics for decades...) and "real suspension"? Unclear, as used to 21st-Century Urban smooth pavements...Hehe... "A bit slow"... LOVE torque. So see also "small"er diameter wheels. [Wink] Operative words being "highest average" travel speeds across city spaces...

:wink:

 

[LeftieBiker]

Haven't read this thread entirely, but to start "a bit slow and heavy, very noisy, and lack real suspension and good brakes. I'd like to get myself..."

Suggest priorities being braking. Followed by "noisy" (a strange concept, having ridden electrics for decades...) and "real suspension"? Unclear, as used to 21st-Century Urban smooth pavements...Hehe... "A bit slow"... LOVE torque. So see also "small"er diameter wheels. [Wink] Operative words being "highest average" travel speeds across city spaces...

:wink:

Find a video of an EZIP Trailz being ridden and you will understand the noise. To make it worse, the backup bike I'm riding now has an unusually loud motor. The brakes are rubber pad rim brakes on a 70lb bike, so that's self-explanatory. ANY bike with a disk brake - even just one - will brake better than an EZIP. I'm not sure what the rest of your post is driving at, so to speak. The Trailz has plenty of torque because of the geared chain drive, but I'd like 20MPH under power, at least. I get 17MPH at most.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Magnum may have done me a favor, assuming they refund the money to Paypal pronto. I decided that I'd look for the pre-built bike that best suited my needs from any seller, and I found an amazon seller who had 5 Magnum Metros in the Fugly flat black color. Now they have 4. I got free shipping, no tax and free VeloFix assembly, and it should be here by my birthday. I'll sort the controls out as needed. Maybe I can use some kind of wrap on the paint. I'm nothing but relieved that I won't be spending $1k+ just to hop up my EZIP, in the terrible shape I'm in these days.

 

[LockH]

^^ Hehe... LOVE the DIY Krew... believing there are many millions of bikes out there already just waiting for conversions...

BUT, as EV World reported recently:
http://evworld.com/blogs.cfm?blogid=1472

More than 650 brands of ebikes world wide

... and:

Nearly 300 brands of ebikes offered in the USA

...

... and I guess I'd be surprised if there isn't now a manufacturer watt doesn't already provide the "features that I (you) want"?

No idea watt bike stores now offer in "Upstate NY"... may be time to visit the "Big Apple"/NYC.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Magnum seems to be ignoring me. I requested a refund early on Friday on the kit that was listed as "In Stock" when I ordered it but wasn't really. They immediately changed the listing, and whenever I use the contact form I get an email saying they will get back to me within a day, but there has been no other response. I'll give them until tomorrow (Monday) evening, and will then start a Paypal complaint. Since they don't build anything, just resell Chinese bikes and accessories, you'd think that they'd have the time to correct a mistake that they made...

 

[LeftieBiker]

After ordering one kit and TWO BIKES that turned to not exist, I finally, almost one week late, got a Magnum Metro today, from a California dealer. The shipping box looked ok, just two smallish holes, one didn't even seem to go all the way through. I opened it today, and the smaller hole was where the steering stem top had gotten bashed and the cap mangled, and the other hole was where the rear axle nut is. The bike wasn't padded well at all by the manufacturer, and now I may be looking at damaged steering and/or a damaged hubmotor. Having had three other wheeled EVs seriously damaged in shipping, I feel like both a fool and a cursed fool.