New crystalyte motor - G series

Sunder said:
I really wanted one of these when I first started reading this thread...

The dismissive content after that though has made me think again.
Click to expand...

I'm really not trying to be too dismissive or negative about it. I do love to see new products and there are certainly some great design ideas in this hub. But the engineering is a bit whack, enough to make red flags jump when I consider building one up for myself or a customer. I didn't want to mention the angles of the spoke head pockets in relation to the lace job, because I really cant see how the spoke head beds into the flange without holding it in my own hands. It is the biggest concern that I have however. While I am ranting about the hub construction, the way the flanges are placed makes single cross have an even larger spoke angle. Although the hub is relatively small in diameter, the nipples are all wonky in the rim with just single cross. Spoke breaking central, and my biggest nightmare between these two concerns.

The hub motor makers of the world really need to step it up and pay attention to the details of building the wheel. You can't use a hub motor without the wheel (ignoring mid drives!)! And tighten up those spoke holes too, spoke heads don't like to be all floppy and lose when they are elbow deep doing their job. Making a hub for 14ga spokes is OK, it is easy to drill out but we can't put back!
 
Thanks John, Good to see your comments with a bit more context. That said, the price tag scared me off a little as well, so it wasn't just people's comments on here.

Just to derail the thread a little, what hub motor would you recommend sub 5kg, can hide behind a 7 gear cassette, and will accommodate a 7 gear cassette in a 135mm dropout? Ideally it would be 200W continuous, with the option to burst to 350/400W for up to 30 seconds. Budget would be sub $300, but if it was exceptional (Say, sub 4kg, or able to do 350w continuous) I could go a little higher.
 
Sunder said:
Thanks John, Good to see your comments with a bit more context. That said, the price tag scared me off a little as well, so it wasn't just people's comments on here.

Just to derail the thread a little, what hub motor would you recommend sub 5kg, can hide behind a 7 gear cassette, and will accommodate a 7 gear cassette in a 135mm dropout? Ideally it would be 200W continuous, with the option to burst to 350/400W for up to 30 seconds. Budget would be sub $300, but if it was exceptional (Say, sub 4kg, or able to do 350w continuous) I could go a little higher.
Click to expand...

Ha. Any small geared hub motor could easily fit that requirement.
MXUS ( ebikekit, ampedbikes, cell_man geared ), Bafang ( random chinese vendors ), etc will suit the task.

I forget what the crystalyte 4xx series weighs, but if you can find one of those, it could meet your requirement.
 
Since the information is out, i will fill in the missing information.

The 2011 HS/HT series will be reminding as High Power motor, there have been improvement made to HS/HT, it will become version 2. The new G series is consider a lighter motor and smaller diameter. So if you think back the 5304 or 5x, the H series is the replacement for that. The G series is the replacement of the 4x motor, or the popular 408 motor. The design was initial/join by European dealers, I don't know who. I am expecting this motor will out selling more in Europe. It come with 3 configuration 70mm, 100mm front, and 135mm rear.

The laced pattern will require special 60 degrees spokes. Here is picture to show more detail on this. The spoke holes will be 13G
file.php


The price point will be expected to be higher then H series motor. I am not the one that set the price, please don't ask me why. I have inform to Crystalyte, this doesn't make senses to sell less power motor for higher price. But I guess the design and research go into the making this motor. Here is another picture on a bike frame.

View attachment 1
 

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I think that unless they change it to go for straight spokes (like motorcycle/moped types), and they make the covers removable without unlacing the wheel, they've got a loser of a motor. Especially at a higher price than "better" motors.

I know that I would not buy a motor that:
A) had to be unlaced to be serviced (especially if it uses special spokes like this, because it'd require new spokes every time it's serviced, under typical wheelbuilding "rules").

B) required special spokes only available from the motor manufacturer (what happens when they decide it was a bad idea and stop making them? No one will be able to repair any wheel with such a motor in it, then, unless they can afford a batch of custom spokes from a spoke manufacturer).

Plus I really don't like the way it looks like those bends are being stressed; it just makes me think they're going to break, not to mention the problems described above with angles at the rim/nipple with various lacing patterns.

About the only use I would have for such a motor is as a middrive, and I could just as easily use any other hubmotor for that.
 
Thanks for the inside scoop..

I thought that was just the hi-power cycles price, i can't believe it's gonna cost more than the HS/HT.
That's an automatic loss of business to smaller geared hub motor distributors.

Crystalyte has been off their rocker lately.
 
neptronix said:
Ha. Any small geared hub motor could easily fit that requirement.
MXUS ( ebikekit, ampedbikes, cell_man geared ), Bafang ( random chinese vendors ), etc will suit the task.

I forget what the crystalyte 4xx series weighs, but if you can find one of those, it could meet your requirement.
Click to expand...

You would think so - Many motors do meet that requirement only just though. Most are 4.3-4.7kg, take only 250W, and either are larger than a 7 speed cassette, or else only accommodate a single speed gear, or 6 speed. I've seen many say you need 145mm dropouts to fit a 7 speed gear.

I like the Bafang BPM2, it looks like it is a 350W motor that accepts 7 gears and the entire package is 5kg, but it doesn't qualify that with any dimensions or motor only weight. As I said above, I got really hopeful about some other motors - only to find out they needed 145mm dropouts.
 
While I applaud some features of this motor, such as the cassete and narrow profile, the crappy wire exit and the 12 mm axle are not improved, when those two things cause much more problems than spokes. And unless you need 10t rear gear, why not just buy a much less expensive aotema motor if you want the features from the old 400 series.

Heinzmann has the axle design I want to see imitated. Round 10 mm axle of good steel, and a built in torque arm that actually works. Fits any, virtually any dropout. Because it's round axle, the torque arm fits every frame. Just rotate, and bolt on the clamp. ALL the rotation force is transfered to the arm, none to the dropout. If heinzmann put that axle design on a brushless plantetary gear motor, there'd be a stampede to it by the knowlegable ebikers. Finally, a motor for my carbon road bike. :mrgreen:

But on the other hand, run this new motor at the recomended voltage, and a good tight nut is going to provide all the rotational resistance needed. People do that, believe it or not, run thier ebikes on less than 2000w. Nevertheless, I can't belive motor manufacturers think they can continue to ignore one of the problems discussed so much on this forum. How to prevent axle spinout and dropout damage.

A smart redesign would eliminate that problem. Even at low power, people do end up having the nuts loosen, and untill we have 10mm round axles , with nuts and washers that actually fit our dropouts, the problem will persist. And it will cause people to decide not to adopt ebiking, because they don't want to downgrade to a steel frame, or have to manufacture their own custom torque plate, or risk breaking the drops on their expensive bike.
 
The new motor looks cool. Good aesthetic design improves sales with almost any product. Standard hub motors are very basic looking and probably chase away some potential buyers. Same goes for freewheels not cassettes. I could see this motor selling well even if it is just a 4x in a different case.
As for the weird spokes I would guess they attempted to use straight spokes but could not get it to work. I wonder if straight spokes could be made to work in certain wheels.
It is a pain to unlace to open it. If you run at the rated power (500 or 700 watts? ) you probably would not need to open it.
Perfect for Europe - looks cool and hard to work on. Look at Audi those cars are so hard to work on, if you replace a door lock actuator it will not work until you relearn the computer using the $20k factory scanner!
 
Agreed, nobody using it at design wattage will need to open it, unless it's to drain the water out. That could be done with the spokes on, but loosened.
 
Hi Guys

This new motor didn't look good to me, especially if you need to open it, Truing a wheel each time not fun at all. :x

Good day!
Black Arrow
 
So I could look past the opening issues, but 60 degree 13ga spokes? Why not something closer to a standard like straight pull or 45 degree? Will there be quality name brand spokes being used from the factory, or will it be the chinese junk that comes on nearly all hub motors?

Having such a specific spoke will also dictate a certain rim unless the spokes are bent to fit during the lacing process. +1 for trying to do something cool and new. -499 for making a hub that will not work with standard bicycle parts and exacerbates the problems we already have regarding WHY spokes break on hubmotor wheels. It seems very likely that the designers have never built or serviced a bike wheel.


Just what I want, a wheel that I can't get quality spokes for!
 
Sunder said:
neptronix said:
Ha. Any small geared hub motor could easily fit that requirement.
MXUS ( ebikekit, ampedbikes, cell_man geared ), Bafang ( random chinese vendors ), etc will suit the task.

I forget what the crystalyte 4xx series weighs, but if you can find one of those, it could meet your requirement.
Click to expand...

You would think so - Many motors do meet that requirement only just though. Most are 4.3-4.7kg, take only 250W, and either are larger than a 7 speed cassette, or else only accommodate a single speed gear, or 6 speed. I've seen many say you need 145mm dropouts to fit a 7 speed gear.

I like the Bafang BPM2, it looks like it is a 350W motor that accepts 7 gears and the entire package is 5kg, but it doesn't qualify that with any dimensions or motor only weight. As I said above, I got really hopeful about some other motors - only to find out they needed 145mm dropouts.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting one factor: you can run motors considerably higher than their rating.
MAC/BMC 500w-1000w motors are about 4.3kg, will take a 7 speed freewheel, disc brake, and can pump out upwards of 2000w even though they are rated at 1000w.

http://emissions-free.com/catalog/i1.html
http://emissions-free.com/catalog/i3.html

There is also a lighter MAC/BMC 350w style motor that is 3.9kg.. that motor should be able to handle 1000w very easily.

The little MXUS geared motor i mentioned can take 350w nominal but 500w nominal is possible, those suckers are light too, about 3kg.

http://emissions-free.com/catalog/i16.html

Bafang has plenty of smaller motors that can take more power than rated.

http://www.evassemble.com/index.php...oducts_id=38&zenid=5odkphjfhbvbbi2nf8g0jtrll4

Of course i prefer the MAC though because you can actually get replacement parts for it if it poops out.

Cute sells a tiny 3kg 500w rated hub. I bet you can't exceed the power rating much on that, but it might fit your specifications..

http://www.bmsbattery.com/rear-driving/382-250w350w-q-85100sx-motor-e-bike-kit.html

All these motors will take 7 speeds with a 135mm dropout.

OK, now back on topic..... :)
 
I wonder if a different lace pattern could be done with straight spokes, threaded with nipples on both ends?
That might make this usable.

I can't see a bike supporting much load all on the spoke head that way. the metal gets weak around the head from the way its formed. and a normal spoke never carries load on the head. its also cone shaped, so it would be putting spreading pressure on the hole when under load.

On the other subject, I have a MXUS. great little motor. not very loud, has more guts than I expected such a tiny motor to have.

Old Clyte 40x, or WE/Aetoma clones are pushing 7kg, and are bigger, but will hide behind a big disk, and are among the quietest of all the hub motors.
 
bitches pls, don't go all puritan over the sight of a few twisted nipples.
where was all the oot-rage over the spokes on the hagen-dasen wheel???

cph_wheel006.jpg

also as has been pointed out about bionx having to unlace the wheel to open er up, it's all been seen b4.
expect only more closed box proprietary crap down the road for the manufacturers benefit should ebikes go mainstream & some competition starts to show up.
an in situ design deliberately making it difficult to open not only lowers material & assembly costs but i'm sur they would also like to shut out the overclockers from undercutting their product line.

Ypedal said:
But, i still want to know... Geared ? or DD ? :eek:
Click to expand...

a geared hub would be a first for xlyte wouldn't it?
i guess it's confirmed then but based on the look & size it just felt like a dd to me.
i think xlyte might positioning this for an expected onslaught of small lightweight hubbies such as falco which should be out by the new year hopefully maybe possibly this time fer sur.
 
Sunder said:
Thanks John, Good to see your comments with a bit more context. That said, the price tag scared me off a little as well, so it wasn't just people's comments on here.

Just to derail the thread a little, what hub motor would you recommend sub 5kg, can hide behind a 7 gear cassette, and will accommodate a 7 gear cassette in a 135mm dropout? Ideally it would be 200W continuous, with the option to burst to 350/400W for up to 30 seconds. Budget would be sub $300, but if it was exceptional (Say, sub 4kg, or able to do 350w continuous) I could go a little higher.
Click to expand...


I don't see why you wouldn't just go for something like the Bafang BPM motor its only 3.9KG is about 1/2 the price. Its Free wheeling and can be ordered with smaller diameter spoke holes. Over all finish looks a lot better to. Apparently they are working on a splined cassette style free-wheel version to that will fit 8 speed free-wheels that I am sure will be for sale soon.

I have been running mine at 2500w burst and a good 1000w most of the time with no issue.
3.99kg
39d1b49e.jpg


2011 splined cassette for 8 speed
bafang_cassette.jpg




Kurt
 
Ypedal said:
honestly tho.. like it has been said above.. 99% of owners will never need/want to open up a motor anways.. we are the 1% lmao...

Same thing with BionX and A2B motors, they are press fit and require removing spokes to open.. not really a problem in real " dealer class power ebike kits " ..
Click to expand...


This is what the motor is made for...not for the 1% DIY...
It is made for big customers, that buy 500motors per order...
The motor is not meant to be opened or unlaced...by DIY

I like the design...the motor doesnt look like every other hub motor from China...it has a very special look...
You will recognize the motor from far away by the first second you look at it...

The spokes will be fine...there are similar spokes on off-road bikes...so...dont worry about them...

And if you dont like the crapy spokes from China...you can by some straight quality spokes and bend them to the ride shape...nothing to it...you are a DIY-guy... :D
 
Disagree.
the point is plain and simple:
if average bike shop cannot provide spokes for this hub so it is very, very bad.
Nobody says here about need to re-lace wheel in DIY project,
you forgot that spokes BREAK on ebikes,
so how you replace if spokes no available.
I disagree about bending spokes, absolutely it is not to be bent.
 
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