new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[gman1971]

Well, I just dumped a few coins on getting the battery packs for the trike.

Since I was unable to acquire the Multistar 20,000 6S packs I had to settle for the 16,000 6S packs. At 79 dollars a piece it was hard to let the opportunity pas... so I ordered 6 of those for a whopping 2420 W/h..., 4 times more capacity of what I currently sport on my eBike. That should yield around 50-60 miles range @ 30ish mph average on a single charge, well, that's assuming my current 48 W/h average on my eBike, which might be lower since these things have lower drag at speed.

I've been talking to Paco at Cyclone and looks like we have a 13T freewheel on the Luna kits. Apparently he explained to me that the 13T is not as strong as the 14T... so the next kit I'll order I'll get from Paco, and with a 14T freewheel. That should reduce even further the amount of torque running through the drivetrain and up the RPMs at the crank by another 10%, so on my trike it should be easy to hit 200 RPM at the crank on 48V, but since I'll be running this guy at 72V I am expecting ~300 crank RPM, and hopefully a 50 mph top speed. I will probably shunt the controller too, and that should probably give it a few extra amps and hopefully allow peaks of around 4.5 kW on 72V... it should be a beast. I am taking every precaution to lower the amount of torque on the drivetrain. Unfortunately Cyclone no longer carries the 40T outer chainring so I'll have to settle for a 44-48-24T crank, but the consolation is that the 14T at the motor freewheel should make up for some of that. Would've been super nice to run the 40T and the 14T freewheel for some extra RPMs... soon I'll be running a shift light like an F-1 car... hahaha

I'll have most of the components in my possession this coming Sunday, and the batteries should be here probably by next Thursday. I am currently withholding from purchasing the Cyclone motor until I sort out a few issues with Paco about what other options are available.

ATM I am guesstimating a ~90 lbs AUW after installing all the stuff. Not bad: a 90 lbs frame and 6 horsepower peak: 14.9 lbs/hp, puts it into real car territory; but a shame when I plop my 175 lbs ass on the seat b/c it sort of ruins it... with a 43 lbs/hp...

G.

 

[DingusMcGee]

gman,

some new flexing cures are brewing in mind for additional stiffening of the c-3000 by more and different ways for my third installation. But no problems yet with what I have done on earlier setups. I sold the second bike/installation and am mounting a c-3000 kit in a FSB. I too have had thoughts of more stability this way:

but the best way IMO to actually solve the flex would be to use a metal block that bolts the two plates together: that will eliminate all flex at the mounting bolts.

For

the washer mod

I plan to replace the washer stack with a drilled alum dowell stock of similar diameter to the washerstack used as this solidness will result in less shear strain movement than the movement between the washers which would also have shear strain.

The 2 sets of the 2-bolt pass thru to the hinged common threaded block anchor seem like they could be made more stable when replaced with a single long bolt at each location. Such long class 12.9 allen bolts are available in lengths to 200mm at McMasterCarr http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=11m2nxc. But flat head allen bolts of that length are not available so an item such as the male portion of a set of alignment washers may seat/mesh in the suspected 90 degree flare of the metric countersink to make good seating and thus allowing the use of standard head allen bolts heads at these countersunk locations. This single pass thru bolt set up requires the threads in the hinge anchor to drilled out to the bolt size.

 

[EMCO]

Well, I just dumped a few coins on getting the battery packs for the trike.

Since I was unable to acquire the Multistar 20,000 6S packs I had to settle for the 16,000 6S packs. At 79 dollars a piece it was hard to let the opportunity pas... so I ordered 6 of those G.

Where did you get those for $79 each??? I've been watching them on hobbyking and they are $119. I'm thinking the exact same setup for my fatbike. 3s2p 16,000mAh 6s packs. on the days I wont need the extra range, just run 3s at half the weight.

 

[gman1971]

Looking forward for your next build! And I am definitively interested in stiffening the motor mount however means necessary, and any solution that works I am all in for that... what kind of FSB bike are you doing?

I agree, I just didn't have anything at hand but a bunch of washers so I used these... and I wanted to be cheap too..

G.

gman,

some new flexing cures are brewing in mind for additional stiffening of the c-3000 by more and different ways for my third installation. But no problems yet with what I have done on earlier setups. I sold the second bike/installation and am mounting a c-3000 kit in a FSB. I too have had thoughts of more stability this way:

but the best way IMO to actually solve the flex would be to use a metal block that bolts the two plates together: that will eliminate all flex at the mounting bolts.

For

the washer mod

I plan to replace the washer stack with a drilled alum dowell stock of similar diameter to the washerstack used as this solidness will result in less shear strain movement than the movement between the washers which would also have shear strain.

The 2 sets of the 2-bolt pass thru to the hinged common threaded block anchor seem like they could be made more stable when replaced with a single long bolt at each location. Such long class 12.9 allen bolts are available in lengths to 200mm at McMasterCarr http://www.mcmaster.com/#socket-head-cap-screws/=11m2nxc. But flat head allen bolts of that length are not available so an item such as the male portion of a set of alignment washers may seat/mesh in the suspected 90 degree flare of the metric countersink to make good seating and thus allowing the use of standard head allen bolts heads at these countersunk locations. This single pass thru bolt set up requires the threads in the hinge anchor to drilled out to the bolt size.

 

[gman1971]

Well, I just dumped a few coins on getting the battery packs for the trike.

Since I was unable to acquire the Multistar 20,000 6S packs I had to settle for the 16,000 6S packs. At 79 dollars a piece it was hard to let the opportunity pas... so I ordered 6 of those G.

Where did you get those for $79 each??? I've been watching them on hobbyking and they are $119. I'm thinking the exact same setup for my fatbike. 3s2p 16,000mAh 6s packs. on the days I wont need the extra range, just run 3s at half the weight.

Well, I got them from hobbyking.com... I am not sure why you wouldn't get the 79$ pricing??

Wow, running 3s2p on a fat bike you might need to ride on the handlebar... is there enough room to fit 6 of those massive packs? On a trike there is plenty of room... but I would've never though of stuffing 6 of those bricks on my eBike...

G.

 

[gman1971]

I decided to go with a similar idea of another ES member for balancing the LiPos using a couple of DB25 connectors and a 3ft DB25 cable to plug to the charger. This should end the issues I had with the balancing connectors breaking due to heavy usage. I am still reluctant to use a BMS on LiPos, mostly b/c I don't want to deal with Alibaba and other misc China websites... this DB25 trick should work and keep the LiPos hooked directly to the controller.

G.

 

[EMCO]

I figured it out, you have 3 warehouses to choose from, International, east and west. the price is 119 from the international and west warehouse, but they are 79 if you select the east warehouse.

Just tried to buy them and and Paypal said the transaction was denied by card issuer.......I'll have to call tomorrow and get that figured out. must be because I'm buying stuff from china and the automated fraud detection stopped the payment.

were you able to buy all 6 at once? I tried to check out with 6 and said they couldn't ship to my country??? I changed it to 3 and it worked. I'll have to order twice.

 

[gman1971]

I figured it out, you have 3 warehouses to choose from, International, east and west. the price is 119 from the international and west warehouse, but they are 79 if you select the east warehouse.

Just tried to buy them and and Paypal said the transaction was denied by card issuer.......I'll have to call tomorrow and get that figured out. must be because I'm buying stuff from china and the automated fraud detection stopped the payment.

were you able to buy all 6 at once? I tried to check out with 6 and said they couldn't ship to my country??? I changed it to 3 and it worked. I'll have to order twice.

This is ironic... you're buying Chinese batteries from china at the US East warehouse?? Isn't that ironic! LMAO.

BTW, I had to order twice as well, 3 each time or it wouldn't ship due to weight.

G.

 

[KOMAN]

gman :

I'm sorry but I can not help you choose driver for your Cyclon kit.
and you tell me which driver will install, I think my controlodor not working properly and I want to replace it.
I do not use cyclo analyst, but I have hanging on my backpack this device http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__75943__Cellmaster_7_Digital_Battery_Health_Checker.html?strSearch=cellmaste

I broke free wheel 14 t in three outings, I recommend 13T hd heavi.

 

[DingusMcGee]

gman,

I am still reluctant to use a BMS on LiPos, mostly b/c I don't want to deal with Alibaba and other misc China websites...

Yes, some are slow, high priced and the items sometimes short lived. With paypal you get 180 days to dispute such things as missing parts or significantly different than claimed and even short lived functioning. I have won about 6 paypal disputes with the Chinese on chargers and controllers -- meaning full refund.

On one of the charger issues a paypal rep questioning me about my short lived Chinese charger ask how long I though a good charger should last. After some thought I told her about my Makita 18v lithium chargers that I bought in 2006 that were still charging[2015]. She agreed 2 months of functioning is not adequate.

But I have found this ebay site quite useful for purchasing reliable BMS's and getting them in a timely fashion.

http://stores.ebay.com/SuPower-Battery/Lithium-LiPo-PCB-PCM-BMS-/_i.html?_fsub=585300219&_sid=1071931419&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

 

[Trickster001]

hi guys I have a query about this motor setup if i may ask. it is listed as a 36-72V controller. so my question is can i use a 16 ah 36v battery I already have from another hub bike with this motor? I want to upgrade battery later when I can afford to but in the mean time this is ok?

 

[DingusMcGee]

gman1971,

certainly those LiPo's look economical but those blocky chunks are too BIG to highly fill the precious space on the triangle of an FSB. And carrying the batteries in a back pack makes for the same high center of gravity I despise.

The FSB I am using is the Specialized 26" FSR which was the first of their FSB. They suggested I wait until they fully implemented the "brain" instead of getting the last of the purchases during that Fall.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Trickster001,

I see no problem using a 36v battery of sufficient amperage on a controller rated 36-72v. The dc motor will not burn up or twist the frame with this voltage. Top Speed -- maybe 24mph?

 

[Trickster001]

ok thankyou. Im new to this and I was not sure if there was some sort of wizardry I had not got my head around. I got my first ebike 2 months ago and it has a horrible 250w hub motor on it. Ive since learnt that a direct drive would be better suited to my needs and im considering this motor or a BBSHD but I think this cyclone is the way to go

 

[BoomerChomsi]

Hello Cyclone users,

What speed would it be when using 44V lipo pack?

 

[gman1971]

gman :

I'm sorry but I can not help you choose driver for your Cyclon kit.
and you tell me which driver will install, I think my controlodor not working properly and I want to replace it.
I do not use cyclo analyst, but I have hanging on my backpack this device http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__75943__Cellmaster_7_Digital_Battery_Health_Checker.html?strSearch=cellmaste

I broke free wheel 14 t in three outings, I recommend 13T hd heavi.

Why doesn't your controller work? What is wrong with it? any idea?

I have a 13T heavy duty on mine, but another member on this thread managed to seize it on 72V @ 5 kW... so we'll see... I plan on running lots of RPM on my trike so I don't foresee the insane torque destroying the freewheel.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Hello Cyclone users,

What speed would it be when using 44V lipo pack?

Depends on several factors, but it is safe to say that on 44V lipo the kit will easily cruise at 30mph, and I've gone as fast as 49 mph downhill.

G.

 

[gman1971]

ok thankyou. Im new to this and I was not sure if there was some sort of wizardry I had not got my head around. I got my first ebike 2 months ago and it has a horrible 250w hub motor on it. Ive since learnt that a direct drive would be better suited to my needs and im considering this motor or a BBSHD but I think this cyclone is the way to go

I prefer the Cyclone due to the ability to deliver high RPM to extend longevity on the drivetrain... but the BBSHD has one thing really going for itself: it is a completely self contained unit, as in, you install the motor and you don't need to figure out where to place the rest of the stuff and hide all the cables.



G.

 

[gman1971]

gman1971,

certainly those LiPo's look economical but those blocky chunks are too BIG to highly fill the precious space on the triangle of an FSB. And carrying the batteries in a back pack makes for the same high center of gravity I despise.

The FSB I am using is the Specialized 26" FSR which was the first of their FSB. They suggested I wait until they fully implemented the "brain" instead of getting the last of the purchases during that Fall.

Yeah, I only use two 6S 12,000 Multistar on my Diamondback Response eBike, any more batteries in there and there is just no room for me pedaling... But remember than on a trike there is a truckload of space in between the seat and the rear wheel so that's where the pack will go, and the motor on the front boom so it should compensate weight wise.



G.

 

[gman1971]

gman,

I am still reluctant to use a BMS on LiPos, mostly b/c I don't want to deal with Alibaba and other misc China websites...

Yes, some are slow, high priced and the items sometimes short lived. With paypal you get 180 days to dispute such things as missing parts or significantly different than claimed and even short lived functioning. I have won about 6 paypal disputes with the Chinese on chargers and controllers -- meaning full refund.

On one of the charger issues a paypal rep questioning me about my short lived Chinese charger ask how long I though a good charger should last. After some thought I told her about my Makita 18v lithium chargers that I bought in 2006 that were still charging[2015]. She agreed 2 months of functioning is not adequate.

But I have found this ebay site quite useful for purchasing reliable BMS's and getting them in a timely fashion.

http://stores.ebay.com/SuPower-Battery/Lithium-LiPo-PCB-PCM-BMS-/_i.html?_fsub=585300219&_sid=1071931419&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Sweet! Thanks for the info they have a lot of things so I might try one of those 72 V BMS and see how well they work.

Hahaha, I can't believe you had to argue that 2 months is not an acceptable lifespan for a battery charger... I still have my first Indy 16X LiPo charger from ~2005, its not very good by today standards but it worked and IIRC it was capable of 6 amps at 4S... it still runs to date. haha, 2 months is NOT an acceptable MTBF for an electronic device.

G.

 

[KOMAN]

When the engine runs for a while (5 km climb) is heated, it turns off and I have to wait 5 minutes to cool down and restarted. My controller is 26-60 v cyclone and lipo batteries are 48v.
Which may be the fault?

gman :

I'm sorry but I can not help you choose driver for your Cyclon kit.
and you tell me which driver will install, I think my controlodor not working properly and I want to replace it.
I do not use cyclo analyst, but I have hanging on my backpack this device http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__75943__Cellmaster_7_Digital_Battery_Health_Checker.html?strSearch=cellmaste

I broke free wheel 14 t in three outings, I recommend 13T hd heavi.

Why doesn't your controller work? What is wrong with it? any idea?

I have a 13T heavy duty on mine, but another member on this thread managed to seize it on 72V @ 5 kW... so we'll see... I plan on running lots of RPM on my trike so I don't foresee the insane torque destroying the freewheel.

G.

 

[gman1971]

A 5 km climb, but what is the grade, a 20%? a 10%?, what speed and what gear are you running, and how much does the bike and you weight?

G.

When the engine runs for a while (5 km climb) is heated, it turns off and I have to wait 5 minutes to cool down and restarted. My controller is 26-60 v cyclone and lipo batteries are 48v.
Which may be the fault?

gman :

I'm sorry but I can not help you choose driver for your Cyclon kit.
and you tell me which driver will install, I think my controlodor not working properly and I want to replace it.
I do not use cyclo analyst, but I have hanging on my backpack this device http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__75943__Cellmaster_7_Digital_Battery_Health_Checker.html?strSearch=cellmaste

I broke free wheel 14 t in three outings, I recommend 13T hd heavi.

Why doesn't your controller work? What is wrong with it? any idea?

I have a 13T heavy duty on mine, but another member on this thread managed to seize it on 72V @ 5 kW... so we'll see... I plan on running lots of RPM on my trike so I don't foresee the insane torque destroying the freewheel.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Well, its finally happening... I got a large chunk of parts of my trike today... thanks Amazon for Sunday delivery...

All BB7, two 180mm rotors, tubes, schwalbe marathon tires, mirracyle mirrors, rear deore Shadow Plus derailleur, front Acera derailleur and a 200 watt DC-DC converter to bring 72V down to 12V.

More updates as they happen..

G.

 

[tomjasz]

Mirricycle, best mirrors ever used. Tough too!

 

[KOMAN]

Gman:
5% km road with moderate slope of about 12% and less than 25 km an hour speed.
The kit is cyclon 1680w and weight 21 kg bike.
I happen to apage the engine and again at 5 minutes has run?
Greetings and thanks