new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
- Start date
Apex
10 W
Pablo said:
No I did not. But I will tomorrow and send you all the measurements.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Robocam,
why do you want aluminum chainrings?
It seems steel ones would last longer and for ebikes this weight gain is not much of an issue.
why do you want aluminum chainrings?
It seems steel ones would last longer and for ebikes this weight gain is not much of an issue.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
pablo,
I take it that in some way you are involved with SBP. I have been quite pleased with SBP quick service on several occasions. To be the independent? Cyclone parts supply house in the USA for all Cyclones variations in production pleases me but not as much as it helps Apex who is waiting to get his machine up and running. Thanks for coming to the rescue here on Endless, although I thought it was beyond a parts supplier's duty to meet all those variations of Cyclone. But then again I know Napa auto parts questions my VIN or production date to get me the right parts for me.
So far I do not need a spare motor but I will keep SBP in mind.
I take it that in some way you are involved with SBP. I have been quite pleased with SBP quick service on several occasions. To be the independent? Cyclone parts supply house in the USA for all Cyclones variations in production pleases me but not as much as it helps Apex who is waiting to get his machine up and running. Thanks for coming to the rescue here on Endless, although I thought it was beyond a parts supplier's duty to meet all those variations of Cyclone. But then again I know Napa auto parts questions my VIN or production date to get me the right parts for me.
So far I do not need a spare motor but I will keep SBP in mind.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
If you have an adequate capacity battery on your ebike and live in the northern interiors of USA you might get some benefits with heated clothing in the winter -- namely staying warmer.
There are several consumer avenues you can choose from to get such heated clothing but it seems the suppliers of heated motorcycle clothing will give you the most appropriate wear. Motorcycle clothing is available in higher wattages than the rest [hunters and construction workers]. The heated Makita and Milwaukee jackets [about 20 watts] I have just do not add enough heat to stay toasty while sitting with temps at 10F and 25 mph winds. You can get biker clothing up to 80+ watts for top or bottom which can make good warmth while riding to temps of 0 F from what I have experienced.
There are 2 ways to go for heated clothing:
1. Liners which are heated underwear at $120+. You add shells and covering from what you have.
2. Windproof pants and windproof jackets with heating elements/liners built into them. About $350 for these units.
Note: Sock liners and heated glove electrical connections are at the extremities of most these top and bottoms. I do not have either of these heated units.
All of the motorcycle style heated clothing is kind of made up to work ideally with 12 volts and some kind of user set controller is necessary [you could plug and unplug them as needed but very inconvenient] but their heating elements can take more voltage with ease. I have plugged an uncontrolled 18v makita lithium batteries to these but the suits got too hot too soon. Generally these suppliers' control units are over $100 but you can get a 2000 watt 12v variable PWM motor controller [china] on ebay for $20 which work fine on these setups. If you have a CA dashboard or the likes you can set your wattage before throttling.
My Cyclone ebikes run at nominal 72v and I use one of the seemingly standard ebike buck converters to get 12v and at about 10 amp max. My CA has read 124 watts from these units and they get warm. You will want the variable PWM controller mounted/carried somewhere that is easy to adjust while riding.
The Gerbing jacket is built very well to keep the wind out and offers some skid protection. They fit a little tight for the size but such tightness keeps the wind out. It would take an oversize jackets to fit over this top so if you are not warm enough you could up the input voltage by getting a different the buck converter [maybe 18v] which will make for about 2.25 X the wattage consumption at 12v. From my testing the jacket element can take 18v without harm except maybe if you pass out you will be cooked.
I have tied a spare battery on the top tube just to run the heating load.
There are several consumer avenues you can choose from to get such heated clothing but it seems the suppliers of heated motorcycle clothing will give you the most appropriate wear. Motorcycle clothing is available in higher wattages than the rest [hunters and construction workers]. The heated Makita and Milwaukee jackets [about 20 watts] I have just do not add enough heat to stay toasty while sitting with temps at 10F and 25 mph winds. You can get biker clothing up to 80+ watts for top or bottom which can make good warmth while riding to temps of 0 F from what I have experienced.
There are 2 ways to go for heated clothing:
1. Liners which are heated underwear at $120+. You add shells and covering from what you have.
2. Windproof pants and windproof jackets with heating elements/liners built into them. About $350 for these units.
Note: Sock liners and heated glove electrical connections are at the extremities of most these top and bottoms. I do not have either of these heated units.
All of the motorcycle style heated clothing is kind of made up to work ideally with 12 volts and some kind of user set controller is necessary [you could plug and unplug them as needed but very inconvenient] but their heating elements can take more voltage with ease. I have plugged an uncontrolled 18v makita lithium batteries to these but the suits got too hot too soon. Generally these suppliers' control units are over $100 but you can get a 2000 watt 12v variable PWM motor controller [china] on ebay for $20 which work fine on these setups. If you have a CA dashboard or the likes you can set your wattage before throttling.
My Cyclone ebikes run at nominal 72v and I use one of the seemingly standard ebike buck converters to get 12v and at about 10 amp max. My CA has read 124 watts from these units and they get warm. You will want the variable PWM controller mounted/carried somewhere that is easy to adjust while riding.
The Gerbing jacket is built very well to keep the wind out and offers some skid protection. They fit a little tight for the size but such tightness keeps the wind out. It would take an oversize jackets to fit over this top so if you are not warm enough you could up the input voltage by getting a different the buck converter [maybe 18v] which will make for about 2.25 X the wattage consumption at 12v. From my testing the jacket element can take 18v without harm except maybe if you pass out you will be cooked.
I have tied a spare battery on the top tube just to run the heating load.
Apex
10 W
Here ya go, Pablo
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
I used to not care about my bike's weight, but ever since I rode my friend's carbon Yeti SB6c, I've been on a mission to reduce the weight of my bike. That SB6c was so easy to pedal! It made me wonder what on earth I've done to my bike that came in at 27 lbs from the factory. The crankset of the Cyclone weighs a freaking ton with it's gigantic steel outer chainring with no cutouts. I will save a lot of weight going to aluminum. If only SBP carried those rings. By the end of the year, I will have paid Paco ~$120 in shipping charges.
I chose steel originally because I wanted longevity, but longevity is a non-issue because of my low mileage use. I want to improve the handling of my bike. I want to bunny hop. The Cyclone motor is less than 10 lbs. Once I move my battery to my backpack, my bike will be a completely different animal. Getting rid of my rear rack and enclosure will probably save me another 10 lbs. Someday I want to try carbon wheels. People rave about those, and prices have come down.
I chose steel originally because I wanted longevity, but longevity is a non-issue because of my low mileage use. I want to improve the handling of my bike. I want to bunny hop. The Cyclone motor is less than 10 lbs. Once I move my battery to my backpack, my bike will be a completely different animal. Getting rid of my rear rack and enclosure will probably save me another 10 lbs. Someday I want to try carbon wheels. People rave about those, and prices have come down.
DingusMcGee said:
Föppel
100 W
robocam said:
Yeah, im on the same mission man!
A Bike with a lot of power is cool, but if it weights much, it feels like a tractor. For commuting thats not that much a disadvantage, but if you want your bike for offroad and fun-riding, thats a wohle other thing i.m.o.
i would start with the battery in Backpack, (if you dont do that already) to do that cost you nothing, and it will make a big difference in the Bike-handling.
Chainching small parts will not do much difference, mainly your wallet will get lighter, and like dingus said, they are often weaker...
one question, how thick are those Motorsheets of the Cyclone 3000W kit? they look like 4 or 5 mm, is that nearly correct?
DingusMcGee
100 kW
drive side is thicker = 0.204" = 5.18 mm
left side =.121" = 3.07 mm
left side =.121" = 3.07 mm
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Robo says,
There is a saying, a poor workman blames his tools ..
Certainly a poor ebiker cannot afford weight reductions at $1500?/kg.
Maybe a little more practice then, Oh! once a week.
The other day I was passed by a motorized dirtbiker on the local trails. He proceeded to do a difficult rocky uphill, thread the needle course, perpendicular to a landing on the 2-track which I was able to duplicate at near? his speed. The gas moto rider stopped and watched me go threw this rubble pile exactly on target and I knew he felt I was of adequate skill when he gave me the pushing upward double thumbs up and a grin! I got this handling ability not by making my bike lighter but by practice and making subtle hardware changes on the throttle responce, brakes responce, tires and weight distribution for the way I ride.
Good luck with your endeavor. I hope you get a compliment like I got.
Making comparison to motorless bikes is just about "out of bounds".
There is a saying, a poor workman blames his tools ..
Certainly a poor ebiker cannot afford weight reductions at $1500?/kg.
Maybe a little more practice then, Oh! once a week.
The other day I was passed by a motorized dirtbiker on the local trails. He proceeded to do a difficult rocky uphill, thread the needle course, perpendicular to a landing on the 2-track which I was able to duplicate at near? his speed. The gas moto rider stopped and watched me go threw this rubble pile exactly on target and I knew he felt I was of adequate skill when he gave me the pushing upward double thumbs up and a grin! I got this handling ability not by making my bike lighter but by practice and making subtle hardware changes on the throttle responce, brakes responce, tires and weight distribution for the way I ride.
Good luck with your endeavor. I hope you get a compliment like I got.
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
Cool! What's your current setup, and what kinds of things have you done to lose weight?
I tried putting my 14s8p Luna 25r pack (13.30 lbs), in my backpack, and it felt really heavy. I'll try it to see if I can withstand it. I thought about getting their 14s4p 25r pack or their Mighty Mini 14s2p 30q pack. It has a 30 amp continuous 50 amp max BMS, so it should be fine for my type of trail riding. If the BMS shuts down, I can set an appropriate current limiter on my Cycle Analyst.
One thing I need to figure out is where to put the power connector, and what connector to use. I thought about using an XT-90S (anti-spark) with an XT-60 for less breakaway force for when I crash/fall. I'm going to get a dropper post, so putting the connector on the seat probably isn't a good idea. Maybe I could tie it to the top tube.
The aluminum versions of the chainrings aren't much more expensive than the steel versions. The 44T is just $20, and the 24T is $12. When I pick up the Cyclone's steel crankset, it feels so heavy. I have a $30 FSA ISIS crankset with a 44/32/22 on it, and it feels like a feather compared to the Cyclone. I'll definitely keep track of how much weight I lose and report back. I think the weight loss will be significant even for a non-weight weenie like me.
It seems like it would take a very, very long time to wear down 44 teeth. Large bicycle chainrings and cassette cogs are typically made of aluminum anyway, and I'm sure people get thousands of miles of use on those. Of course we're motor-powered here, so it will probably be different, but at least these parts aren't relatively expensive compared to cranksets that cost hundreds.
Another idea I may try is to use regular chainrings on a spider like this. I think it would look so much better too.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=163
Here's a photo of a nice-looking crankset from this post.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=275#p1149602
The motor sheets feel very light. I plan to buy some 1/8" and 3/16" aluminum to make my own. I want to incorporate a chain drop preventer like the ones found on chain guides and bottom bracket-mounted bash guards. As you can see, it's just a small piece of aluminum that keeps the chain from landing on the bottom bracket shell (or in our case, the motor sheets). I'm also thinking about incorporating a bash guard as well to protect the large chainring.
This way, if the chain slips off the 24T, it won't get destroyed immediately by being jammed between the chainring and the motor sheet (yes, this happened to me). I just bought this metal hole saw to cut the holes. I can't believe how cheap it is. $14! Look at the costs of the other sizes.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B016U0QDNG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I tried putting my 14s8p Luna 25r pack (13.30 lbs), in my backpack, and it felt really heavy. I'll try it to see if I can withstand it. I thought about getting their 14s4p 25r pack or their Mighty Mini 14s2p 30q pack. It has a 30 amp continuous 50 amp max BMS, so it should be fine for my type of trail riding. If the BMS shuts down, I can set an appropriate current limiter on my Cycle Analyst.
One thing I need to figure out is where to put the power connector, and what connector to use. I thought about using an XT-90S (anti-spark) with an XT-60 for less breakaway force for when I crash/fall. I'm going to get a dropper post, so putting the connector on the seat probably isn't a good idea. Maybe I could tie it to the top tube.
The aluminum versions of the chainrings aren't much more expensive than the steel versions. The 44T is just $20, and the 24T is $12. When I pick up the Cyclone's steel crankset, it feels so heavy. I have a $30 FSA ISIS crankset with a 44/32/22 on it, and it feels like a feather compared to the Cyclone. I'll definitely keep track of how much weight I lose and report back. I think the weight loss will be significant even for a non-weight weenie like me.
It seems like it would take a very, very long time to wear down 44 teeth. Large bicycle chainrings and cassette cogs are typically made of aluminum anyway, and I'm sure people get thousands of miles of use on those. Of course we're motor-powered here, so it will probably be different, but at least these parts aren't relatively expensive compared to cranksets that cost hundreds.
Another idea I may try is to use regular chainrings on a spider like this. I think it would look so much better too.
http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=163
Here's a photo of a nice-looking crankset from this post.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=275#p1149602
The motor sheets feel very light. I plan to buy some 1/8" and 3/16" aluminum to make my own. I want to incorporate a chain drop preventer like the ones found on chain guides and bottom bracket-mounted bash guards. As you can see, it's just a small piece of aluminum that keeps the chain from landing on the bottom bracket shell (or in our case, the motor sheets). I'm also thinking about incorporating a bash guard as well to protect the large chainring.
This way, if the chain slips off the 24T, it won't get destroyed immediately by being jammed between the chainring and the motor sheet (yes, this happened to me). I just bought this metal hole saw to cut the holes. I can't believe how cheap it is. $14! Look at the costs of the other sizes.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B016U0QDNG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Föppel said:Yeah, im on the same mission man!
A Bike with a lot of power is cool, but if it weights much, it feels like a tractor. For commuting thats not that much a disadvantage, but if you want your bike for offroad and fun-riding, thats a wohle other thing i.m.o.
i would start with the battery in Backpack, (if you dont do that already) to do that cost you nothing, and it will make a big difference in the Bike-handling.
Chainching small parts will not do much difference, mainly your wallet will get lighter, and like dingus said, they are often weaker...
one question, how thick are those Motorsheets of the Cyclone 3000W kit? they look like 4 or 5 mm, is that nearly correct?
juanfeli
100 W
You will be fine with 4 kg battery. I use 44V 16Ah in a backpack. If you use silicon wire you can zip tie it to the frame seattube and other ziptie to the saddle so you shouldn’t have a problem with the dropper post and you can continue using the XT90s.
How much weight you think you’d save with the chainrings? Wandering if it is worth it vs a proper wheelset or a hardtail frame or really good fork or something really easy like a short trials cranks. You could also machine down some holes in the chainrings that you already have.
If you go with a bigger range cassette, you probably wouldn’t need 2 gears in the front and more weight savings.
Or go with the Cyclone 1600 for 800gr savings
How much weight you think you’d save with the chainrings? Wandering if it is worth it vs a proper wheelset or a hardtail frame or really good fork or something really easy like a short trials cranks. You could also machine down some holes in the chainrings that you already have.
If you go with a bigger range cassette, you probably wouldn’t need 2 gears in the front and more weight savings.
Or go with the Cyclone 1600 for 800gr savings
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
Thanks for the suggestions! I'm not sure exactly how much I'd save with the chainrings, but it just seems like a really easy place to shave some weight, and it won't cost that much. I'll post my findings after the conversion.
I already have a nice wheelset (WTB Frequency i25), and I have a 2016 Fox 36 160mm fork (oh I love this thing it is so awesome!), so there's little improvement for me to make there. I definitely don't want a hardtail, in fact, I'm looking at 29er frames with 6" of travel in the rear. If I get shorter crank arms, that will change the ratios, and I don't want that to happen.
I almost bought this frame. The seller paid $2350 for it plus $170 for the headset. I don't like the single pivot rear suspension design though. The rear brake can cause squat and lock up the suspension.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252561228880?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
My rear cassette range is 11-42. I could go 11-50 with the OneUp cog, or 11-46 with buttery smooth Shimano shifting.
And here's why the Cyclone Mini is probably not such a good idea. It's noisy and overheats. Not really that great for saving about 2 lbs.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578
And I don't want to go around sounding like this =)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvE8AK7vQI&t=0m28s
On a side note, I just found out the Cyclone aluminum chainrings are made out of 6061 aluminum, so I might not go that route. I'd prefer 7075, like the Raceface rings. I don't know though. I have no idea what the real world longevity difference is. I'll be using a Raceface inner chainring. Maybe I'll just try the 6061. We'll see.
I already have a nice wheelset (WTB Frequency i25), and I have a 2016 Fox 36 160mm fork (oh I love this thing it is so awesome!), so there's little improvement for me to make there. I definitely don't want a hardtail, in fact, I'm looking at 29er frames with 6" of travel in the rear. If I get shorter crank arms, that will change the ratios, and I don't want that to happen.
I almost bought this frame. The seller paid $2350 for it plus $170 for the headset. I don't like the single pivot rear suspension design though. The rear brake can cause squat and lock up the suspension.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252561228880?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
My rear cassette range is 11-42. I could go 11-50 with the OneUp cog, or 11-46 with buttery smooth Shimano shifting.
And here's why the Cyclone Mini is probably not such a good idea. It's noisy and overheats. Not really that great for saving about 2 lbs.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578
And I don't want to go around sounding like this =)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvE8AK7vQI&t=0m28s
On a side note, I just found out the Cyclone aluminum chainrings are made out of 6061 aluminum, so I might not go that route. I'd prefer 7075, like the Raceface rings. I don't know though. I have no idea what the real world longevity difference is. I'll be using a Raceface inner chainring. Maybe I'll just try the 6061. We'll see.
juanfeli said:
The weight difference is 1.5kg from Chupa who compared both here, so its 3.3 pounds heavier not 2 pounds:
Also i don't think you want aluminium chainrings on this 3kw cyclone, this is the same motor and torque as a LR small block and people have folded over the stamped steel chainrings ! let alone an aluminum one. Thats why they use thick steel chainrings on these cyclone as their is so much torque. Also the life of aluminum would be very short compared to steel for a peddle bike that maybe fine, but not for 3kw mid drive. Its not just a mater of changing them more often because if they wear out they derail easier and then can damage other parts.
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
I don't think it's worth it to lose the torque & power handling and gain all that noise. With the Mini, you'll have to strap a bunch of heatsinks around it, adding weight, and it still won't handle the power.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578#p1225682
Aluminum chainrings are typically thicker than their steel counterparts, so that might mean that they can be stiffer. My Wolftooth Components 42T cog is aluminum, and it has no problem handling my Cyclone 3000. I've used that gear to haul 400+ lbs (not including my own weight or the bike's) on grades that stall the Cyclone 3000. My main concern with that cog is the teeth stripping out against the freehub, since it's not connected to the other cogs via a spider. So far I'm impressed with the ability of the aluminum to resist such destruction.
Like what happened to this guy (at the bottom of this post).
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=73027#p1102755
Keep in mind, the LightningRods mid drive uses a 33.3:1 reduction, while the Cyclone 3000 only uses a 20.3:1 reduction (with the 44T chainring). People using the LR kit are more likely to send much more torque to the rear. That is likely why their chainrings are getting bent.
I guess I'll be the guinea pig =) I'm sure I won't use it enough to wear out the chainrings, and even if I do, I'll see the wear before anything bad happens, and I can change the worn parts.
Another reason I'm interested in aluminum chainrings is because they make narrow-wide chainrings out of aluminum. I haven't seen any steel versions.
Oh, and the Tangent Ascent 6000W kit uses an aluminum chainring (how do you make the picture fit? Here's the link to the photo). https://static1.squarespace.com/static/552159f1e4b09b57601a38bc/554980e4e4b0761910895d26/57e04d19b3db2b9060d9592d/1475604160355/DSCN1419.JPG?format=1500w
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578#p1225682
Aluminum chainrings are typically thicker than their steel counterparts, so that might mean that they can be stiffer. My Wolftooth Components 42T cog is aluminum, and it has no problem handling my Cyclone 3000. I've used that gear to haul 400+ lbs (not including my own weight or the bike's) on grades that stall the Cyclone 3000. My main concern with that cog is the teeth stripping out against the freehub, since it's not connected to the other cogs via a spider. So far I'm impressed with the ability of the aluminum to resist such destruction.
Like what happened to this guy (at the bottom of this post).
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=73027#p1102755
Keep in mind, the LightningRods mid drive uses a 33.3:1 reduction, while the Cyclone 3000 only uses a 20.3:1 reduction (with the 44T chainring). People using the LR kit are more likely to send much more torque to the rear. That is likely why their chainrings are getting bent.
I guess I'll be the guinea pig =) I'm sure I won't use it enough to wear out the chainrings, and even if I do, I'll see the wear before anything bad happens, and I can change the worn parts.
Another reason I'm interested in aluminum chainrings is because they make narrow-wide chainrings out of aluminum. I haven't seen any steel versions.
Oh, and the Tangent Ascent 6000W kit uses an aluminum chainring (how do you make the picture fit? Here's the link to the photo). https://static1.squarespace.com/static/552159f1e4b09b57601a38bc/554980e4e4b0761910895d26/57e04d19b3db2b9060d9592d/1475604160355/DSCN1419.JPG?format=1500w
Alex07 said:
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Robo and Foppel,
Really? I do not buy this idea that putting your battery in backpack is best. I think you guys lack the design skills, time and/or tools to make a custom battery pack(s) [usually necessary on full suspension bike] that fits below the top tube and sort of occupies the odd triangle of FSB. So what experience do you have with such a low battery mount? Battery positioning on your back gives you about the highest center of gravity you could get, not good. Granted when you jump off the bike to lift it over a log, the bike will feel lighter than if the battery pack were mounted anywhere on the bike. But when you are riding the bike the rotational inertia of the whole system [bike, battery and rider] is what comes into play -- knowing some physics makes this engineering wise obvious .
We do not see motorcycle enduro riders carrying their gasoline in a bladder in a backpack to improve handing. Nor do we see them carrying extra weight in a backpack to improve handling. And when I get on my petal only mt bike, I feel most agile with no tools in a backpack and no backpack. I like them tied to the down tube or seat tube.
You will never win a race bunny hopping. It is a parlor trick but maybe a useful skill. And it is absolutely not necessary for some skilled trail riding. Spend you money as you wish. From physics it seems obvious a lighter bike would be easier to bunny hop. Lightening it is just $1500/Kg for the first Kg.
Foppel,
before you cast such a judgement that the battery in the backpack is best build a small one that fits low in the frame below the top tube and between the 2 wheels. Then you will have an experience base to talk from on this matter.
Really? I do not buy this idea that putting your battery in backpack is best. I think you guys lack the design skills, time and/or tools to make a custom battery pack(s) [usually necessary on full suspension bike] that fits below the top tube and sort of occupies the odd triangle of FSB. So what experience do you have with such a low battery mount? Battery positioning on your back gives you about the highest center of gravity you could get, not good. Granted when you jump off the bike to lift it over a log, the bike will feel lighter than if the battery pack were mounted anywhere on the bike. But when you are riding the bike the rotational inertia of the whole system [bike, battery and rider] is what comes into play -- knowing some physics makes this engineering wise obvious .
We do not see motorcycle enduro riders carrying their gasoline in a bladder in a backpack to improve handing. Nor do we see them carrying extra weight in a backpack to improve handling. And when I get on my petal only mt bike, I feel most agile with no tools in a backpack and no backpack. I like them tied to the down tube or seat tube.
You will never win a race bunny hopping. It is a parlor trick but maybe a useful skill. And it is absolutely not necessary for some skilled trail riding. Spend you money as you wish. From physics it seems obvious a lighter bike would be easier to bunny hop. Lightening it is just $1500/Kg for the first Kg.
Foppel,
before you cast such a judgement that the battery in the backpack is best build a small one that fits low in the frame below the top tube and between the 2 wheels. Then you will have an experience base to talk from on this matter.
juanfeli
100 W
Is it possible to run 2x chainrings with narrow wide?
robocam said:
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
Unfortunately not. Narrow wide chainrings can only mesh with the chain a certain way (the narrow teeth can only go in the narrow slots), and if you shift (assuming you can even get the chain off the chainring), there's no guarantee the narrow tooth will hit the narrow gap. Also, since they're not designed to be shifted, they have no pins or ramps, so shifting would be quite difficult, especially if you use an indexed shifter.
But if you want to have 2 chainrings where you manually shift by hand (literally using your hand to move the chain from one chainring to the other), that will work, and now you just made me realize that is an option!
I'm thinking about putting the Cyclone in the triangle, and if I do that, I'll have to remove the front derailleur making 1x my only option. I'm so tempted to get the Shark now.
http://www.oneupcomponents.com/collections/all-products/products/50t-shark-sprocket-18t-1x11
I really like Phife's setup.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78681
But if you want to have 2 chainrings where you manually shift by hand (literally using your hand to move the chain from one chainring to the other), that will work, and now you just made me realize that is an option!
I'm thinking about putting the Cyclone in the triangle, and if I do that, I'll have to remove the front derailleur making 1x my only option. I'm so tempted to get the Shark now.
http://www.oneupcomponents.com/collections/all-products/products/50t-shark-sprocket-18t-1x11
I really like Phife's setup.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78681
juanfeli said:
juanfeli
100 W
Don’t take me wrong Robo, I’m very grateful with you and what you have done with this thread. I’m just curious about your shaving weight, I’m my experience is an expensive route that could decrease the longevity or quality of your bike but of course that is worth to pursue.
Having said that, there are steel narrow wide chaingrings. Here an example. https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/sram-x-sync-steel-chainrings
I have used one (Raceface) and you save weight in one of the chanings. You don’t need the adapter of SBP. It makes the system to sound a little louder but for a different reasons I went 7 speed, so I’m not using it anymore. I haven’t had a single drop chain with this cyclone, I think because my mounts are very stiff after I copy your formula. I have though broken a very cheap derailleur that came with my Walmart bike.
Having said that, there are steel narrow wide chaingrings. Here an example. https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/sram-x-sync-steel-chainrings
I have used one (Raceface) and you save weight in one of the chanings. You don’t need the adapter of SBP. It makes the system to sound a little louder but for a different reasons I went 7 speed, so I’m not using it anymore. I haven’t had a single drop chain with this cyclone, I think because my mounts are very stiff after I copy your formula. I have though broken a very cheap derailleur that came with my Walmart bike.
Apex
10 W
DingusMcGee said:
I dont know, a battery in a backpack makes sense to me.
We all know that moving unsprung weight inboard to become sprung weight is a good way to improve handling for a few reasons. And in a sense, pulling the battery off the frame and into a backpack does the same thing, effectively making that weight double sprung. At that point your legs are another suspension negating the battery from effecting handling. Let us not forget that your arm/legs are effectively an active suspension, improving the results of moving weight onto the rider. At that point the center of gravity concern is almost eliminated, because it's "smart" weight that can be moved, unlike "dumb" weight that is permanently attached to the frame. We all take advantage of smart weight and smart center of gravity when we move around the bike for certain maneuvers. Just watch any motorcycle road race, we use our bodies weight as an advantage, not a disadvantage, by moving around the bike.
Another advantage is it takes a lot of stress off the battery pack. For example, imagine a six pack of bottled soda. Strap it to the bike and go hit the trail. Now put it in a backpack and hit the same trail with big drops. Which has a higher chance of busting a bottle, which sodas will fizz up more at the end of the trail?
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
Oh you're fine juanfeli =) I'm not bothered at all. I welcome all suggestions, especially from polite users like you!
I don't mind small steel inner chainrings. It's that gigantic solid outer chainring that I find a bit heavy.
If I use the SBP adapter, I will have lost most of the weight, so I don't mind using steel chainrings. I tried looking for a SRAM X-Sync ring with BCD104 holes on eBay, but all the ones I saw are aluminum.
What do you mean I don't need the SBP adapter? What will I mount the chainrings to? Are you saying the narrow wide ring you were using is louder than a regular ring?
I don't mind small steel inner chainrings. It's that gigantic solid outer chainring that I find a bit heavy.
If I use the SBP adapter, I will have lost most of the weight, so I don't mind using steel chainrings. I tried looking for a SRAM X-Sync ring with BCD104 holes on eBay, but all the ones I saw are aluminum.
What do you mean I don't need the SBP adapter? What will I mount the chainrings to? Are you saying the narrow wide ring you were using is louder than a regular ring?
juanfeli said:
juanfeli
100 W
I recently move from US to Bogota Colombia. It is amazing how the perception of your bike changes with the terrain and places that you ride. In US I used to ride occasionally in beautiful trails where my 44V batts where more than enough. There I enjoyed more y the batts in the back pack because it improves the handling a lot.
Here in Bogota, is just concrete and instead of occasional riding for fun I’m riding more for commute. And I can climb the steep hills but sometimes I’d like to have 72V batt when I’m riding in this chaotic traffic jungle between cars. Here I leave my bike lock to places, so I have to carry always a backpack, so it makes sense to put the batts there also. A good thing is that if my bike gets stolen, they’ll not take the batteries. A bad thing is that I can’t ride with a suit, just because I don’t like suits with back packs.
So, as I’m commuting. I’m going to use a rack and put my back pack wherever I choose and hopefully I’ll rise up my batt volts.
G, may I ask what controller are you using?
Here in Bogota, is just concrete and instead of occasional riding for fun I’m riding more for commute. And I can climb the steep hills but sometimes I’d like to have 72V batt when I’m riding in this chaotic traffic jungle between cars. Here I leave my bike lock to places, so I have to carry always a backpack, so it makes sense to put the batts there also. A good thing is that if my bike gets stolen, they’ll not take the batteries. A bad thing is that I can’t ride with a suit, just because I don’t like suits with back packs.
So, as I’m commuting. I’m going to use a rack and put my back pack wherever I choose and hopefully I’ll rise up my batt volts.
G, may I ask what controller are you using?
juanfeli
100 W
Yes, it makes the chain to sound a little louder. Nothing that should bother you.
And yes, you can use the cyclone outer chainring, and with four bolts as you probably have right now, you bolt the narrow wide.
I’m leaving for a meeting right now. But later I’ll look for a photo.
And yes, you can use the cyclone outer chainring, and with four bolts as you probably have right now, you bolt the narrow wide.
I’m leaving for a meeting right now. But later I’ll look for a photo.
robocam said:
