new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

thank you.

I was just thinking about doing that with a small strand of copper wire like in the picture but I know I could never spread the solder like that with this soldering iron with the skinny tip.

For now though the terrible horrible butcher job I did will just have to hopefully work as I am almost out of bullet connectors.

I am about to charge Dan's old packs today. I will need to scrounge up enough connectors to make a parallel cable for combining two of the 5S packs into one,

I will simply have to disconnect it and hook it up to the other two for my return trips back home as i do not have enough bullets to make a parallel cable for all four packs to make it 20 AH.

Actually I may just run Dan's packs on the flat and keep that good 10.0 AH pack for going up hills as with my less than adequate gearing I will kill off the old packs quick going up hills. Thanks.

LC. out.

I am charging the second pack. Two more to go. They seem to be in good shape for their age so far.

I will be attempting to solder the parallel cables now. I only have a little solder left. I watched the video but do not have that fancy soldering gun.


Ok I am taking a different approach this time. I plan on using locking pliers to stabilize the soldering iron so it don't move and my hands will be free to do the job.

Ok. the video proves that it is NOT my fault that I can't solder like the video that was posted. The soldering iron tip is too small to transfer enough heat from the bottom so that the solder melts on the top and flows evenly around the wires. although I do not believe I will ever be an expert at it I do believe that with the tool in the video (the soldering gun ) I would have been able to do a much better job than I just did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_PfxDj-vww&feature=youtu.be


Frankly I am a little pissed off right now as it is 1 AM and Wall-Mart is closed and I am out of solder so only 1/2 of the parallel cable is finished. Also I have no shrink wrap but that is ok as I will demonstrate how to do it properly WITHOUT shrink wrap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCRz6USEmg&feature=youtu.be

No it does not look as pretty as shrink wrap but this 1/2 of a parallel cable shall work just as well as 1/2 of a parallel cable ordered from e bay. Tomorrow I guess I will make the other half of the parallel cable.

I am now going to install the controller and attempt to make my first waterproof installation.

Mission accomplished. Good use of the bottom of a two liter soda bottle. I used the soldering iron to burn a hole thru the plastic for the screwdriver then after screwing the controller thru the side of the plastic basket 6 zip ties holds it secure and silicone plugs the hole.
Since the basket is over top of the motor a 30 gallon plastic bag over the top of the basket with a bungee cord wrapped around it makes the entire bike basically waterproof.

Notice that there is plenty of room to the right of that waterproof controller for a second waterproof controller when I get the rear motor installed. Once I get the other two packs charged and combined I will be able to bungee the cash box with Dan's old packs and once they are combined I will have 10 AH for the rear and 10 AH for the front motor. 1,033W total with 21 mph approx gearing.

Unfortunately though i guess I will have to hear about how shitty my gearing is until next month as it is the middle of the month and as usual I have no money to order more bullet connectors. I cant make a second set of parallel cables to combine the other two packs to run both motors at once. I can only run the front motor now.

The bike will be up and running as soon as I get more solder to finish the parallel cables. Also the controllers will all be plug and play so it will be as simple as a second front basket with the two 36V controllers mounted the same exact way but with a cash box containing 4 - 4 S packs. Two for each motor in series for 1,550 W total and 32 mph. That wont happen for awhile though. Thanks for posting.


LC out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Two motors one e bike.

Progress is being made. I will soon have the second motor installed.

With the weight of the motor on the back and the all wheel drive effect from both wheels spinning I think it will handle better than a single front motor would.

the front motor is geared for almost exactly 21.5 mph with the motor turning 533W @ 24V and 1,833 rpm with a 56T wheel and 11T motor sprocket with #420 chain.

the rear motor is geared almost exactly for 20.5 mph with the motor turning 500W @ 24V and 2,500 rpm with a 80T wheel and 11T motor sprocket with #25 chain.

Since the gearing is so close if I choose to run them both at 36V they will be geared for approx 31 mph and will turn 1,550W total.

That is the result of charging the old LiPo packs Dan sent three years ago. They seem to be in decent shape. I got more solder and need to finish the parallel cables. I will need to order more bullet plugs to do the second parallel cable.

I am also waiting on my thumb throttle. It should have been here a week ago. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

There still good? Voltage looks good, now you need to see what capacity is.

Dan

 

[Sunder]

The problem can be that dead cells can die in two ways - don't accept a charge - in which case it takes forever and a truck load of energy going in, and virtually none coming out, or it can be moved around with very little charge - goes from flat to full in just a few hundred milliamp hours, and gives even less back out.

As Dan said, it's time to test capacity - and especially to make sure that during discharge, the cells stay together until at least 3.6v. After that, they can go any way they want, but if they voltage starts diverging more than 0.1v before 3.6v, the packs are screwed.

 

[latecurtis]

i just got a bunch of frames and parts.

looking to relocate out of Schenectady NY this summer.

I want to start an e bike shop building e bikes and selling them.

I need a partner. Someone who can put a beer down long enough to accomplish something every day.

DA is the closest about 2 hours from here i think. Dan is next closest.

I want to build and sell electric bikes. Please let me know.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

I think you'll be on your own for that one - because any partner is going to say the same thing: "I need a partner. Someone who can put a beer down long enough to accomplish something every day."

Running a business requires discipline, because you don't have a boss breathing down your neck.

There are also a lot eBike companies out there already, some of them with reliable, top quality products. You need a differentiator. Unless all your bikes are going to be old bikes you got for free, bits of wood, and second hand repurposed motors to seriously, seriously undercut them, you're going to find it hard to compete.

 

[latecurtis]

Not really. It don't have to be a big company.

It can be small time and the golden rule would be the K I S S method.

(keep it simple stupid)

The bottom line here is these e bike companies cater to the rich or middle class people.

Alien power for example will provide custom KV or rpm for their motors and custom voltage for their controllers both an an affordable price.

Also for safety and convenience top speed will be limited to 20 mph @ 6S LiPo which is the federal limit. The brakes will be new even if the bike is not and
will be more than capable to stop the bike at 20 mph.

If someone changes the controller and voltage for 30 or 40 mph or faster that will be on them. The controller will have a 30V cap limit and meant for 6S LiPo and geared for 20 mph.
This will be in writing that any modifications made after purchase is solely the customers responsibility and the seller has no knowledge of it.

The bikes will be equipped with small less than 80 mm motors geared for 20 mph and approx. 750W or one horsepower.
The motors will be light and about $50 to $60 and will require no gear reduction and will rum 8 mm chain and a spoke sprocket kit on the opposite side of the cassette.
It will be fully functional as a pedal bike. I will locate a cheap brush-less controller and 20 Ah 6S battery pack as well as an inexpensive 6S balance charger.

bike. 0 to $50

motor $60

controller $40

single 16.0 or 20.0 - 6S pack. $150

6S balance charger - $50

chain and sprockets - $40

total price in parts - approx - $400

price of the bike - $600.

$200 profit to be made on each bike.
two to three bikes build per week for sale.

$200 to $300 each week for each of two partners.

three or more partners will produce 4 or 5 bikes a week so that $200 each person is minimum profit.
approx $30 to $50 per hour earned for each person.

this is not a get rich idea and will not require expensive parts like gear reduction or mid drives at least not at first.
My Haro V3 will be a prototype which will be geared for at least 40 mph and about 2400W
For production bikes for sale a smaller motor and gearing for 20 mph will be the only difference.
otherwise the Haro V3 build will be the example. Thanks for posting.

LC out.

 

[Sunder]

Of course, if you have a line up of customers waiting to buy, and you were so good at building, you never had any warranty issues, that might work. Oh, and you don't declare your income, don't get product liability insurance, you know the things that you want to do if you don't want to end up in jail? A real business needs sales, marketing, support and admin behind it. If you don't know how to do any of that, then your partner better, and he or she had also see that you have skills that he doesn't, or why would he choose you?

I had a similar idea once, but not to make profit. Just in my spare time, go to a police impound auction, and buy bikes for $5-10 each, put the cheapest kit possible on it, and sell it for near zero profit - just to get more cars off the road. Then I came to my senses. I work a 50-60 hour week and have 2 kids.

Let me give you a head start though, this kit is $99 + shipping. So cheaper than your individual parts, but with shipping it's more expensive. However, if you did it 3-4 kits at a time, I'm sure shipping will be very little more. That, and well, I don't think your prices include shipping. That way, you have a brushless kit (That you're used to), that's chain drive (same again), but now has professionally manufactured brackets (One up on you), and that was designed to work together (one up on you) at least a DOA warranty.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-250W-ELECTRIC-MOTORIZED-E-BIKE-CONVERSION-KIT-/192088563409?hash=item2cb95eded1:m:mAHp7bvMnk35YfcrZ-auMNw

Or you could get a hub kit for $50 more, and it'll be easier to install, way more power and more reliable for the end user:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48V1000W-Hi-Speed-Electric-Bicycle-E-Bike-Hub-Motor-Conversion-Kit-Front-Wheel-/122085464398?var=&hash=item1c6cdc594e:m:mGJi8vitmJPC4fuY8LNGDLA

 

[latecurtis]

I had the 24V motor installed but somehow awhile installing the rear wheel with the 80T sprocket bolted to the freewheel the negative motor wire broke off inside the motor. The wheel would not fit and I had much trouble expanding the frame about 1/2 inch to accommodate the extra nut so the chain would clear the frame. It must have happened then.

I attempted to repair it and even soldered the wire back on but there were serious complications getting it back together. The motor sprocket no longer turns. something is broke that I cant fix as I do not know what it is.

due to the terrible gearing without a second motor on the rear the project is a total loss.

I am going to need a long break from e bikes. i will log on sometime in the spring maybe. I am not sure.

The only friends I have that share this hobby are you guys who live hundreds and in your case thousands of miles away. thanks for posting.

LC. out.



I made a last final attempt to fix the motor. I took the photos to prove that I did everything possible and yes the motor turns and the video proves it but it was not without
a great deal of hassle.

I had to retie the magnets about 3 times for each magnet and when I got it together had much trouble getting the bolts thru. The thread broke and magnets popped out two or three times and when I got it together the motor sprocket would not turn twice.

I then discovered that the motor sprocket would turn before trying to run the bolts thru so the third time I loosened up the bolts a lot and now it is turning. There were washers preventing the bolts from being over tightened and they were not put back in.

This may have happened earlier when I had it back together. It is turning perfect now but have not tried testing it with a voltage yet. The positive wire also got damaged somehow. When the silicone dries I will put gorilla tape over that also.

This will be the third Unite motor I have had to take apart and put back together. I am not sure how everyone else does the magnet thing. I came up with the idea myself but wonder if there is a better way.
If this works it will be a miracle. :lol: I still have a lot of work to do on it. Thanks again.

LC. out.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJAP8rb4bms&feature=youtu.be

 

[DrkAngel]

Magnets?
I think you mean brushes! ... ?

I explained simple procedures for retaining brushes during assembly ... previously, the last time you were mangling them.

 

[Sunder]

This is pain you've made yourself really. 3rd time you've rebuilt the Unite? How many times have you needed to rebuild the hub kit?

Don't know if you'll read this, but pretty sure you won't take heed if do, but eBiking can be a cheap and fulfilling hobby if you rely on the experience of your forebears. Its when you try somethibg that has already been done and proven to be difficult and unreliable that you get frustrations and expenses.

 

[latecurtis]

This is pain you've made yourself really. 3rd time you've rebuilt the Unite? How many times have you needed to rebuild the hub kit?

Don't know if you'll read this, but pretty sure you won't take heed if do, but eBiking can be a cheap and fulfilling hobby if you rely on the experience of your forebears. Its when you try something that has already been done and proven to be difficult and unreliable that you get frustrations and expenses.

I already have two hub motors and both bikes run great. I will be riding them also this spring and summer. I am not riding much at all in this weather. I wish I was living in Florida for the cold weather months.

It is true that hub motor kits are easier to install. It is why I will be getting one for the front of the Haro V3.
Bruno from Alien power systems and I agreed that a 62 mm Alien power motor geared for 40 mph and running 6S LiPo with a 2 kilowatt controller would NOT be a match for a gas powered four wheeler or a 125 cc dirt bike. however I am not spending $300 or more for a 7 kilowatt controller to run a 100 or 120 mm motor.

The solution for quicker 0 to 40 mph acceleration then is to add a 1500W hub motor on the front and go with the 2400W rear setup as the 2 kilowatt controller will put out 2400W according to bruno.
Total power would be 3900W. It would require two throttles but should at good from 0 to 40 mph.

I will do further research to see if it is possible to pump out 5 kilowatts total with a similar set up.
Unfortunately a 125 cc dirt bike or similar 4 wheeler will be hard to beat as I googled it and 0 to 60 mph can be achieved in under 6 seconds so is electric really faster than gas is the question I have to ask.
Comparing horsepower a 50 horsepower gas motor to electric I will require at least 20 horsepower to beat it.

Back to my present build the parallel cables are finished to combine two of the 5.0 packs Dan sent for 10.0 capacity. Also the motor is installed and hopefully repaired. Now comes another major challenge to the build. breaking #25 chain and reconnecting it to the correct length needed to hook the wheel sprocket to the motor sprocket.

I have bought several chain breakers over the years and they all broke. Doug says he has one and can get the job done so I may have to use the front motor to get it there. I will have to walk it up a small hill as with just the front motor it will not make it up any incline period with the gearing. However if Doug succeeds in hooking the chain up I will have over 1,000W total with 21 mph gearing instead of 533W so I wont have to walk up any hills on the way back.

Also when I get four 4S LiPo batteries for dual 36V operation I can finally beat Doug in a race and a lot of small gas powered scooters as I will have 1,550W and 32 mph gearing. Thanks for posting.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Uunh ... for 36V you want 10s (2 x 5s) -
37V rated with 42V fully charged.
36V controller with ~31V LVC.

4s would work if paired (in series) with same make, model, age and use 6s = 10s (36-37V)

 

[latecurtis]

This is pain you've made yourself really. 3rd time you've rebuilt the Unite? How many times have you needed to rebuild the hub kit?

Yes I know. I am not disputing that a hub motor is the way to go with an e bike.

The main reason I guess I like to play around with chain drives is because it is difficult. Yes I do get frustrated at times but when I actually make something work
I get that feeling of accomplishment somewhat like 25 years ago when I installed an intake manifold and Holly 650 double pumper carburetor on a small block Mopar instead of taking it
to a garage.

I am simply living my life backwards basically. The norm. Is teenagers and early 20s is when one usually works on bicycles, go-carts ect. and spends hours playing video games.
Later on in life possible race cars on the week ends or when not working a job.

However I am disabled with severe arthritis and a serious heart condition and am not working so now working on e bikes gives me a break from time to time from my Pirate game.
The only friend i got here where I live that works on bikes is Doug and he has zero interest in putting electric motors on bicycles.

Basically If I did not really enjoy building them I guess I would be just like the majority of my friends who only have their next beer to look forwards to. I cant really get much done working on e bikes with a beer in one hand and a joint in the other so my party time is usually late at night after midnight until early morning maybe 4 to 6 hours and 6 to 8 beers when I sit in my recliner and watch movies on my 49" 4K TV.

the other 8 to 10 hours I am as straight and sober as a judge and drink coffee , eat food , play pirates , clean fish tanks , walk to Wall- Mart and other stores and work on e bikes which is my favorite thing to do. Thanks for posting everyone and it was good hearing from you DA. I realize you are busy with your business and I wish I lived closer as I would love to build gaming machines and servers for you to sell. My friend Doug could help me with the gaming end and my friend Bill Hill who is in his late 50s was around back in the early 80s working on servers that took up entire rooms. He went to ITT tech and does networking and other stuff. :lol:

However I am stuck here in SCUM -nectady or Schenectady :lol: and most of my friends are either dead or half dead from alcoholism. Nobody really wants do do much of anything. Mabye return empty cans once a week. Nobody has a truck anymore and scrap metal is not worth much of anything these days.

I got the thumb throttle today and am going to work on hooking up the second 24V controller for the rear motor just like I did for the front. Thanks again everyone.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

I get that feeling of accomplishment somewhat like 25 years ago when I installed an intake manifold and Holly 650 double pumper carburetor on a small block Mopar instead of taking it
to a garage.

I think I found an old video of LC:

[youtube]0-H6Uz0b1Wk[/youtube]

Did your Mopar have a fully blown v8 powered racing carbs Mickey Darbs Double Pumpers and a beefy rear end, BEEFY! The owner of the charger in that ad was the president of the Mopar Road Runner's Club in Melbourne

It's good you've largely avoided the fate of many of the others living in your area, and maybe having a good hobby has contributed to that, but I still think there is more to life than digging holes and filling them back up again, just because it creates work for you, and a sense of achievement. Maybe you can do what I had thought of doing - Building ebikes - but good ones - to help out others and get cars off the road - I'm sure there are a lot of young ones who would get a job stacking shelves at Walmart if they had an easy way of getting there. I know in entrenched poverty, not being able to afford to work, is one of the reasons why poverty is passed on from parent to child. Building reliable ebikes and selling them on for a smallish profit - but just to those who need them - could be something you could use your skills for, keep yourself busy and help others.

 

[latecurtis]

The guy with the black hat on looks like jayrock from trailor park boys.

http://prntscr.com/e22m8k

http://prntscr.com/e22mhk

I have watched every episode ever made and all their movies.

Totally awsome !!!

check it out. season 1 episode 1

I think it is still on netflix.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Summery of recent tips:

• 
  Gearing well beyond the motors capability is:
• damaging to battery
• damaging to motor
• reduces range
• reduces attainable speed
• degrades performance horribly

Need some proof?
$3 speedometer would be easier but have friend monitor as you compare acceleration and hill climb, peddling only, in bicycle lowest gear vs highest gear.
Start in highest gear 44-14t and note time and difficulty to 10mph.
Compare to lowest gear 44-28t and note time and difficulty to 10mph.
Gives a good representation of the importance of "proper" motor gearing.

Doesn't the "properly geared" 800w front drive hub motor demonstrate the safety issue of a powerful front drive sufficiently ... and yet you persist with further plans ...

Simple gear-reduction motor would be sooooo much simpler and more efficient, and easier ... and cheaper when you consider the cost of gigantic wheel sprockets and heavy chains.

Oh, and did you figure out yet why some of your builds have so much trouble with chains coming off?
420 chain is not designed to work with 410-415 motor sprockets!
The larger diameter round bearing surfaces will not drop fully into the depressions between the teeth, so ,,, chain rides high on the teeth and "pops off" easily.

On Soldering
Did you actually purchase the recommended soldering iron with the tip assortment and throw out the additional-heavier tips?
or
Did you get the cheaper version, without the recommended heavier tips?
Do you adjust the temperature on the soldering iron?
Since you have a fine point soldering iron, might as well pick up a soldering gun for your heavy wire work.

 

[liveforphysics]

Curtis, maybe you missed it but I sent you a PM you will be happy to see.

 

[DAND214]

Curtis, maybe you missed it but I sent you a PM you will be happy to see.

No Luke, you didn't sent him the Death Bike did you?

Dan

 

[liveforphysics]

Curtis, maybe you missed it but I sent you a PM you will be happy to see.

No Luke, you didn't sent him the Death Bike did you?

Dan

The guy I sent my first deathbike (the pink BMX with 650A) ended up hospitalizing 2 folks in asia. I don't send deathbikes to people anymore. lol

 

[DAND214]

Curtis, maybe you missed it but I sent you a PM you will be happy to see.

No Luke, you didn't sent him the Death Bike did you?

Dan

The guy I sent my first deathbike (the pink BMX with 650A) ended up hospitalizing 2 folks in asia. I don't send deathbikes to people anymore. lol

That's good to hear. You had US worried

Dan

 

[Sunder]

I'm now curious as to what it is!

 

[latecurtis]

I wrote him and thanked him.

He told me he sent it out.

It just goes to show how truly awesome this forum really is.

When I talked with him thru PM about three years ago i think it was he said something about an FX - 75 -5 motor. That was awhile ago though and when I researched it I did not find much on it .
i believe I saw that it was an electric motorcycle motor but am not positive on it.

I know that it was not on e bay and google showed little information on who sells just the motor and not the whole motorcycle.

basically it looks like I will be going 50 mph on an e bike this summer and it may very well be over for those pesky 4 wheelers at my brother Jeremeys house this upcoming fourth of July when they hold their annual family four wheeler competition. :lol: Thanks everyone for posting and this forum is totally AWSOME !!!

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

basically it looks like I will be going 50 mph on an e bike this summer and it may very well be over

So... Can you leave the contact details of your next of kin, so if you don't post here in a few weeks, we know who to contact for details of your funeral?

In all seriousness though, talk to us EVERY step of the way before you ride this thing. We can help you with some non-destructive testing to make sure what you've built is safe. For example, if you "think" your dropouts and/or torque arms are good enough, we can run you through a process of doing some stationary testing that will give you a good idea whether it is or not.

 

[latecurtis]

it is a hub motor ?

I was not sure. I thought it was chain drive but a hub motor would be much easier to install.

Mary's son was here for Christmas. Johnny. He was the one who wanted to buy the Schwinn for $500 but I did not want to sell it.

Anyway he told me that he bought two welders. I think he has tanks as well as torches.

Of course I have no clue how to build a death bike but Johnny did say he was going to give me a set of welding equipment. I either have to learn how to weld or see if my brother in law Mark
would be willing to help me out. he has close to 20 years in the trade. He went to modern day welding school way back in the late 1990s

basically the 29" bike is a little to tall for me being 5 foot 8 inches. The Haro V3 however already has disk brakes on the front. It is aluminum but if there is a way to reinforce the frame in the rear by welding braces or something I guess that would be my plan.

I have a huffy steel dual suspension frame but as far as I am concerned is a piece of junk.
I guess I have two dual suspension frames. I just don't like either one of them.

I like the Haro because it is a good name brand. I can't afford a $1,000 downhill bike. If I were rich I might buy a Cannondale jeckel or a high end FAT mountain bike.
However I am not rich so the Haro is my first choice if it is possible to reinforce the frame to work without making it look like a piece of junk or some frankenbike.

I am looking for a professional build and am willing to spend $100 or more on some type of reinforcement for the rear frame. The second up from the bottom picture shows what is needed to mount a hub motor if there is not enough room on the stock frame. It should also add to the strength. Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

I just found this on google images when I typed in the FX 75 -5. ( bottom pic) This is a newer version of it and it is definitely NOT a hub motor. Also I would guess about 20 lbs easily. The motorcycle I believe was listed as 27 HP and 85 mph top speed. I will definitely need a welder to weld brackets if that is the case. Also whatever size motorcycle chain is is what I will have to go with and a spoke sprocket kit will be out of the question. I will need a rear 26" wheel which is set up for disk brakes and bolt the sprocket directly to it. I wont be able to run disk on the back but the Haro is not set up for disk on the back anyway. I will have to go with U brakes I guess for the back.

Another thing I may need to do before racing it is to put a hub motor on the front so it will add weight to the front end so the front wheel stays on the ground and the bike does not flip over backwards upon take off. Hopefully I will be able to use the front motor for take off and ease into the thumb throttle that runs the rear motor. I may have to let the four wheelers beat me off the line at take off but when I reach 15 mph or so I can enguage the rear motor and just blow past everyone and should be able to beat all the four wheedlers in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile.

Actually my brother in law Mark claims the fastest four wheeler and boasts an 80 mph top speed. If that is the case I can bet that it is geared high and not low so when he gets to 30 mph I should be able to blow past him at 50 mph and then he might pass me when he gets up to 70 mph when my heart starts pounding because of fear of death. Hopefully my Leakey heart valve will not rupture either. but I should definitely have him in the 1/8 mile at least and the two or three other four wheelers in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile hopefully.

A really smart decision would be to find someone about 20 years younger without heart problems and equip him with a full crash suit and helmet. At least it will be my bike that wins the race and I can enjoy it as a spectator as my brother lives way out in Amish country and the nearest hospital is over 20 miles away. I can still ride and enjoy the bike awhile I am out there but would GRADUALLY get it up to 50 mph then call it a day :lol: 0 to 80 mph in 8 or 9 seconds though may be a little much for me.



LC out.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=50367

Ok I found some other information on the motor.