new eZip motor

[tomjasz]

Buy black XT60 and XT90. Shazam!
https://rcbattery.com/nylon-xt90-connectors-male-with-end-cap-5-pcs-bag-black.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1-Gu28fU8gIVgSc4Ch3nzAwAEAQYASABEgJlQfD_BwE

 

[Blacklite]

Wire wrapping is another skill I developed which is kind of unique. There is no reason to solder the 2" wires coming from each cell as they wrap about an inch and 1/4 around a straight strand of 16 gauge copper wire. Then a longer piece of 16 gauge wire wraps around all of that. three strands are good for 1,800W continuous. 2,400W peak. A single 16 gauge wire is 600W. I built these 6S - LIFEPO4 packs on that logic.

Not soldered or crimped?

I wouldn’t worry about the internal resistance of your cells. You’ll be adding far more than that externally with this shoddy technique.

Proper wire wrap makes a cold weld, your approach definitely does not.

 

[latecurtis]

I wouldn’t worry about the internal resistance of your cells. You’ll be adding far more than that externally with this shoddy technique.

Maybe you are right. I thought the more copper wire the less resistance. I could be wrong, No way to tell until I run them.
I do not know what the iR is supposed to be but the pack I soldered with the Weller is about two times higher than the iR of the packs that were heated up with the 60W iron and soldered two or three times.

Yea. That is right. The cells that got hot have the lower iR. I thought it was the other way around. I thought that cells that are damaged or heated up should have the higher iR value so it really makes no sense at all. The wiring is the same for both packs. I did the wire wrap thing.

The pack that was soldered two or three times and the cells got hot were charged like 2 or 3 times and balanced. The pack with the higher iR that was soldered one time with the Weller was only charged and balanced one time I think. I do not know what iR is supposed to be for a 6S - LIFEPO4 pack. (bottom picks below post)


That below is what they looked like before I re - soldered the 2" wires and did the wire wrap trick. I figured three strands were better than one. I might be wrong but I hope not.

Buy black XT60 and XT90. Shazam!
https://rcbattery.com/nylon-xt90-connec ... gJlQfD_BwE

Thanks for posting.

Good to know for future reference. Looks like it will be a long time before any future builds. Time to close up shop. Looking at storage this week. All unsafe 18650 cells need to go. Only keeping the very best.

I still have not tried the pack. It was really hot today. Also code enforcement was here and the building is condemned. We got 30 days to find a place or we will be living on the street.

The LIFEPO4 batteries I built is the least of my worries now. Looking for a storage unit as we might have to go to a motel by the week like when we first moved to Ohio.

All landlords want up to $50 application fees to run background and credit checks nowadays. I can not pass either. My wife is in very poor health and fell over while I was sleeping. Her son was knocking on the door. She got hurt. COPD. causes dizziness.

Yea.

e bikes are the least of my worries right now.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

You say that ebikes are the least of your worries
but your hooked man
still posting pics of your digital multi-meter
your hooked man

Sorry to hear about your apartment situation.
You know theres organizations out there to help you out.
Besides that, there are a ton of home owners willing to rent rooms, but you need a deposit.
Maybe weekly no-tell motel dont do deposits
Winters coming faster then you think
You need to think hard
Look for a master bedroom with its own bathroom and its a bigger room.
Probably cant store all your ebike stuff there so a storage unit may be needed, or maybe get a room rental with garage included.
just start selling stuff off. Downsize, have one ebike with spare parts to build another.
Also since you have wheels, grab extra income, uber eats, skip the dish, mow lawns, shovel snow
Its easy to make money, easy!
A heck of a lot easier making money when you have wheels.

 

[latecurtis]

You say that ebikes are the least of your worries
but your hooked man
still posting pics of your digital multi-meter
your hooked man

Also since you have wheels, grab extra income, uber eats, skip the dish, mow lawns, shovel snow
Its easy to make money, easy!
A heck of a lot easier making money when you have wheels.

Yea. Diabetes is kicking my ass. Van has no AC , heat and the window wont roll down.

Lucky if I can get out of bed before 3 PM on most days. Supposed to go to the heart doc. in September. Doubt I can work and on full disability , not SSi. If I work and they find out I could lose that disability and then if I get fired or sick and can not continue working I will be a complete bum and have to re apply for disability. Not such a great idea.

I just hope when I move I can have a back yard to spot weld. It needs to be on ground level so my wife don't get dizzy and fall down the stairs. Also I cant leave her alone for more than a couple hours and her son is going back to truck driving soon so will not be around for weeks at a time.

e bikes is all I have. without that I really do not have anything to do. I just hope the LIFEPO4 packs will work. The iR readings really do not make much sense to me. I guess 40V is normal for 12S - LIFEPO4.

I know when I ran the newer 10S - 8P Lion packs under heavy discharge the LVC cut off on the 1,500W brushless controller or the BMSs shut down. Then they barley worked a couple cycles later. The LIFEPO4 packs I built do not have a BMS but there is still the LVC cut off in the controllers. That could kick in if the packs are damaged or there will be decreased capacity. At least there is no thermal runaway with LIFEPO4.

Those of you who know about LIFEPO4 and iR please let me know as first time running LIFEPO4 so not sure what to expect. The 13S pack has been sitting fully charged for several days now at 42V. Exactly what I did not want to happen. But wont balance , charging less than 4.2V per cell with a BMS. Exactly why I want to switch to LIFEPO4. That and no thermal runaway.

I am not stalling. Just need to run the Turbo with the 800W hub and bring those 13S packs below 4.0V per cell tomorrow or < 52V as each day they sit at > 54V I lose dozens of cycles. Also I need to modify the battery rack on the Currie to mount two battery boxes. Not sure about the wiring going from the 1,000W brush controller to the 40 amp DC breaker either. If it is 16 gauge I need to upgrade to 12 gauge. 16 gauge is ok for the front Bafang with the 18 amp controller but not the 26 or 28 amp brush controller. It could melt.

My goal is to get some help hauling the Currie up the stairs so I do not have a heart attack or heat stroke , then doing the upgrades after midnight when it is cooler in the e bike workshop.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. Running LIFEPO4

The LIFEPO4 packs I built run perfect. I did 3 videos and ran them about 6 miles and full throttle a couple times and 1/2 to 3/4 throttle up a few short hills. I also did a video in Wall-Mart parking lot with the cannon pocket camera. It was dark so all is not showing up but will edit out the boring parts.

I just did a cell bank check with the balancer and all cells appear to be healthy. There is no low cell banks.

It will take some time to edit and process the three videos. I do not expect any of the doubters to man up any time soon but that is ok. It is the first run , however a month or so from now after about a dozen runs I would like to hear something.

The videos will be up soon.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

As long as you can ride your ebike

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wgby_yJ5NM

That don't even seem possible.

39.54V.

from 40V or maybe 40.1V.

It is about 2 - 1/2 miles to Wall Mart one way , so 5 miles. Then add the parking lot video and the beginning of the video where I was in downtown Canton. I went up the road and back down and then to my house to pick up my back pack and then WallMart. .

Approximately 6 miles total. I edited out a lot as was slow , dark and bad roads and was running the Bafang solo for top efficiency. The video shows both motors. I failed to get any footage of the speedometer but think I did like 23 mph up the hill. Not sure. I did not have the speedometer app. downtown and that was slightly up hill as well. Looks like these batteries can do 40 or 50 miles though. By far the best capacity batteries I ever had.

The wire coming from the 1,000W brush controller is 12 gauge I think but there is a short piece only a few inches where I used what I think is 16 gauge wire. I could replace it but if it does not get hot then why bother. I did mot want to haul it upstairs and back down. I did not modify the rack for the batteries either. I took a board off and used two bungee cords. I need to do that before running it again.

The Giant Roam with pedal assist and the dual 500W e bikeling motors - 26" rear and 700c front probably > 50 miles. The 700c solo on the flat and both motors with pedal assist up hills.

The Diamondback Outlook with the Dual Bafangs should also have decent range but no pedal assist. The Giant Roam is my only pedal assist bike and will be working on that for my next video.

The 13S - 20Ah pack still works as well. I did a 9 mile total trip out in the country to the cannabis store when it was daylight. I ran the 20" Turbo with the 800W hub on the rear. That little bike is fun to ride.

I am not running a BMS with the LIFEPO4. Just balance cables. Does anyone know how low should I run these LIFEPO4s before I should balance charge ???? I know I got a lot of miles to go before they go below 3V a cell.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

The lower you go the more out of whack they will become over time.


You should know what the min voltage is by now.

 

[DrkAngel]

Were your banks exactly balanced before starting your run?
29% and 42% is a pretty wide disparity!

 

[markz]

How accurate are cheap capacity testers anyway?


https://www.dv-power.com/battery-capacity-test-or-internal-resistance/

 

[latecurtis]

Were your banks exactly balanced before starting your run?
29% and 42% is a pretty wide disparity!

I think I used the external balancer on one of the 6S packs but not the other.

The lower you go the more out of whack they will become over time.

OH. OK.

I am not familiar with LIFEPO4 chemistry. I know they are more rugged than Lion. I know it is not recommended to go below 3.5V per cell with Lion. I think 2.5V per cell is the limit for LIFEPO4. That is 30V and LVC cutoff should occur before that so looking at running them until a cell bank goes below 3V and then hook up external balancer. THEN balance charge at a low charge rate.

2 * 3 = 36V. Running from 40V down to 36V is not a lot. That is why I asked but guess it wont matter if it goes below 36V as we are talking LIFEPO4 here. A superior chemistry. Not looking to go much below 3V though. No where near 2.5V per cell.

These cells were brand new until I run them in the video. Battery Hookup advertised them as military grade overstock cells. The imbalance could be some were sitting on a shelf longer than others. Also some I soldered and heated up more than others but when testing iR the cells heated up the most had a lower iR.

That tells me that brand new cells need to be broke in. What I am thinking is battery chemistry changes when a cell is charged or discharged and heated up. . I tried to balance one of the packs three times. Twice with the Balance charger and once with the external charger. The other pack just once with the balance charger.

I need to run them slightly below 3V then externally balance and then balance charge slowly and see what happens. It is called breaking them in. Then you know what you are working with instead of guessing. I think I heard that LIFEPO4 can be discharged very low compared to other battery chemistry and still recharge and not die. Not that I would want to but I know 26650 cells are SPECIAL. I watched a video where 4 in series started a car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8HoW-qmxnU&t=304s

Come on man that is special. I have 60 of those bad boys running my e bikes.

They do not compare to my LTOs though. I bought those for the FX motor but might be able to use them for the 3 kilowatt brushless motor. But was thinking I don't need to build that yet.

I might have to move so why spend money when I got that 36V - 750W gear reduction motor just sitting around, Already test proven. Went up steep hills back in NY.

I can go 40+ mph if I hook up the 13S power modules to the 1,500W brushless controller and hook up my 48V brush controller to the gear reduction up front. I do not need to buy a second 36V brush motor to get 2,500W from the 20" e bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. I just have to order a $15 motor sprocket.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

Were your banks exactly balanced before starting your run?
29% and 42% is a pretty wide disparity!

I really do not get what the % is about. % of what ???

Full charge with my 6S - LiPo charger on LIFE mode is 20V for each 6S pack so 20 / 6 = 3.33V so what is 29% or 42% even mean. It surely is not 29 0r 42% of 3.33V and even if there were a way to charge to 3.5 or 3.6V per cell it would be > 42%.

0% or empty = ???? 2.5V or 3.0V The only way 42% would make any sense if 0% = 3.0V and 100% would have to be > 3.6V. Then 50% would be > 3.3V.

Doing the math though.

3.302 - 3.286 = 0.016. That is a very low number.

Don't seem like much of a difference at all.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Did you not even read the instructions that came with the tester?
:lol:
I didnt know but a quick inter-web search reveals what the % is, fairly quickly, even on the sales pictures on ebay Tenergy item.

I really do not get what the % is about. % of what ???

3.302 - 3.286 = 0.016. That is a very low number.

Yeah thats not to bad, 0.01V difference, but the lower you go, the more times you go real low then the difference adds up so go shallow depth of charge. Like for li-ion charge to 4.05V overnight, then when your ready to go an hour before charge to 4.20V then only go to the corner store and back or until you reach 3.50 or 3.60V, thats for Li-ion but do the same thing (not same voltages) for Lifepo4.

 

[tomjasz]

"Those LTOs and LIFEPO4 cells came to $830." Two DECENT Ping packs instead of this cluster fock!

 

[latecurtis]

"Those LTOs and LIFEPO4 cells came to $830." Two DECENT Ping packs instead of this cluster fock!

The LTOs are for the FX - 75 - 5 motor but will need more for 80V. I am not using them for any e bike. Too big and heavy and take up too much room.

I think the LIFEPO4s will work just fine. The boxes they are in look ok I think. I just need to work on all my battery racks I will be using them on which is the Currie , The Diamondback Outlook and the Giant Roam.

I do not plan on using the 12S - LIFEPO4s for racing or anything > 40 amps. That is because my building method is questionable. For 60V I will need a Ping pack if they come in 60V or will need to pay someone to spot weld a 60V - LIFEPO4 pack.

However I did not waste my time or money building the 12S LIFEPO4s as I have three bikes I can ride and the Currie can be converted to a heavy duty cargo hauler with a large rear rack. If I take care of them and keep them balanced I should get 5,000 cycles or at least 10 years out of them.

For the 1,800W brushless motor I will be using the 13S power modules DA. recommended because they are designed for high discharge. > 40 amps. Not sure about the 3 kilowatt brushless motor. The 3 kilowatt controller might work with the power modules and it might not. I will still get at least 35 mph from the 1,800W brushless motor just the way it is without changing anything.

Then I still have the 20" Turbo with my 13S - 20 Ah pack. That is still running so will have a back up bike there which has a front basket so is my little cargo hauler.

Until I find out if I need to move or not I wont be spending any more money. The building is totally illegal We may even get the rent we paid back as the house was supposed to be a two family dwelling and was converted to 5 apartments with no building permits.

There will be a court battle that could go on for months and we no longer have to pay any rent until it is settled. If code shuts the building down before the court case is settled the landlord is legally responsible to relocate us .

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

That is because my building method is questionable

Its questionable but others have soldered batteries together, I never seen anyone do your wire method of connecting each can. Perhaps you are an innovator, perhaps.

I liked to sandwich my old Makita's between 1/4" wood and duct tape it solid.
I used 10awg solid copper, pretinned both area's (wire and can) and layed the wire flat to already tabbed Makita 5s2p (18V) so I be putting 2 in series to make 36V and 4 or 6P total.
Can't do that with your vertical stranded wire coming off the can, once its crushed the wire would hit the casing.

Sorry had to edit the kff emoji to a lightning bolt.
Hopefully there will be more emoji selections from the default selection when Nep switches over to the new server. Its to much work and time to search phpBB emojis online. :hammer: Thats the only one I know of : hammer : or in Curtis case maybe this one will work :beer: or :weed:

 

[DrkAngel]

Were your banks exactly balanced before starting your run?
29% and 42% is a pretty wide disparity!

I really do not get what the % is about. % of what ???

Full charge with my 6S - LiPo charger on LIFE mode is 20V for each 6S pack so 20 / 6 = 3.33V so what is 29% or 42% even mean. It surely is not 29 0r 42% of 3.33V and even if there were a way to charge to 3.5 or 3.6V per cell it would be > 42%.

0% or empty = ???? 2.5V or 3.0V The only way 42% would make any sense if 0% = 3.0V and 100% would have to be > 3.6V. Then 50% would be > 3.3V.

Doing the math though.

3.302 - 3.286 = 0.016. That is a very low number.

Don't seem like much of a difference at all.

LiFePO₄ - charged capacity at static voltages
3.40V = 99% full
3.3V = 31% full
3.2V = 08% full
3.1V = 04% full

 

[latecurtis]

Well I said I was not going to spend any more money. Well a motor sprocket and freewheel from electric scooter parts is cheap. It also helps out the EV revolution a little bit too.

So what if I can not get 40 mph. I will get 38 mph and get there quickly.

Yea. The brown box on frame is the 13S power modules. I just have to order a BMS and build and modify and reinforce the existing triangle bracket. I don't build triangle racks like most e bike I builders. I build triangle brackets. The controller/controllers mount on the sides in the triangle and battery pack on the top bar. One of my trade marks.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

Hate to tell you, gonna take forever to balance that 4s!
If they started at the same voltage you dropped some cell(s) out of "p".

Yea. Same with this 6S. Must be the same cell bank. I ran the LIFEPO4s to Wall-Mart last night and like Markz said it got worse so put the balancer on it and 18 hours later still balancing,

https://www.amazon.com/Equalizer-Balancer-Connection-Lithium-Battery/dp/B09DVM8MSV/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=active+lithium+cell+balancer&qid=1630613853&sr=8-3



Yea. Looks like a standard 6S balance plug. I could just plug them in ?????I will need two though. Will they work awhile running the packs in series or do I need to cut all those wires and buy a 12S active balancer ?????

I know I said I did not want to spend more money but I was planning on running these LIFEPO4 packs sometimes every day so if takes more than 24 hours to balance with the balancers I got it will be worthwhile spending the extra money to keep these packs healthy.



Please let me know.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[markz]

Go to the thrift store
Go to the chargers hanging off the wall
Look at the back of the chargers for the voltage and the current
Look for 5V 1A
Charge up all the low voltages so every things equal
Meaning if you have 6S packs and 1 or 2 are low, charge up just those
Get some alligator clips and a paper clip
Shove the paper clip in the balance lead

You must be sure your shoving it the paper clip to the right balance lead holes of the balance connector

You must babysit the charging process

You must have your meter hooked up

You must check it often
Because the charger is 5V your batteries are 3.40V
Be sure its a charger you buy and not a power supply for a printer

Also after your meter says the voltage you want which is your highest for 6S say its at 3.30V
Stop charging
Let the voltage sit
It will lower a bit say from 3.30V to 3.25V
Notice what the voltage is
Charge for some time say 5 minutes now say its 3.26V
and repeat from stop charging until its 3.30V

 

[ZeroEm]

by markz » Sep 02 2021 6:41pm

Go to the thrift store
Go to the chargers hanging off the wall
Look at the back of the chargers for the voltage and the current
Look for 5V 1A
Charge up all the low voltages so every things equal
Meaning if you have 6S packs and 1 or 2 are low, charge up just those
Get some alligator clips and a paper clip
Shove the paper clip in the balance lead

You must babysit the charging process
You must have your meter hooked up
You must check it often
Because the charger is 5V
Be sure its a charger you buy and not a power supply for a printer

Also after your meter says the voltage you want say for
Stop charging
Let the voltage sit
It will lower a bit
Notice what the voltage is
Charge for some time say 5 minutes
and repeat from stop charging

What about the USB (Phone) chargers if a person Built adapter? I use the wall warts to charger all types of lithium cells with a USB port. have a bunch of that mess laying around.

 

[markz]

I try to get cell phone chargers that plug into the wall, not usb.
Sometimes you can't tell the difference between a printer/fax/ps4 power adapter to a cell phone charger, other times its obvious. I usually just google the the model # as I am standing at the wall of chargers at the thrift store.

Snip off the connector, figure out whats + and -
And triple check the voltage and current, there are lots of different voltages and currents, key is to find one that suits your amp needs, voltage you just got to keep an eye on, I had a 12V one once to charge li-ion to 4.20V. Dont want to over-work what your charging so dont want 10A dumped into on can, you want 0.50A or 1A.

You are manually balancing charging up 1S if you have only one charger, but you could do more if you have more chargers.

Be careful with those "USB chargers" I saw a video on a guy who bought a usb charger and all it was was a resistor inline with the 5V usb.

I know channel AvE youtuber bought a bunch of 1S chargers off ebay for $0.80 but I forget the current they were.

What about the USB (Phone) chargers if a person Built adapter? I use the wall warts to charger all types of lithium cells with a USB port. have a bunch of that mess laying around.

 

[ZeroEm]

I need to look and see what Amp or ma they are. markz has the ideas.

 

[markz]

I stole the idea from es member icecube57 who did a lot of testing of lipo's and posted lots of videos.
He used an expensive iCharger but shoved pins in the balance leads to charge individual low voltages.

I am cheap, so I bought $3 cell phone chargers from Value Village and copied the method.

I am pretty sure I posted it before in this -eZip motor- thread.

The video I saw on the one resistor to lower voltage from 5V to 4.20V was a random one I came across. But theres plenty of that out there.

I need to look and see what Amp or ma they are. markz has the ideas.