new eZip motor

[Sunder]

Since you like chain drives so much, had you considered doing a Mid-Drive conversion?

My retirement dream is to tour Europe during the warmer months by electric bike. My dream bike for that would be a mountain bike with a BBS01 (needs to be legal), with a Rohloff Speedhub, with the front and rear sprockets modified to accept a larger chain. Should be insanely reliable and low maintenance.

I'm going to the UK in 2 years (to work, not to retire), and want to do a bit of that cycling then, but I don't think it will be with that build. Not at the current prices of a Rohloff.

 

[latecurtis]

Since you like chain drives so much, had you considered doing a Mid-Drive conversion?

I obviously lack the skills and knowledge to do so.

I would love a high output RC type motor for mid drive with gear reduction.

Only way I could ever do it would be some hands on help from an experienced ES member.

Maybe someday if DA would help me put it together. He is the closest to where I live. you are in Australia and Dan is in Illinois I think he said but DA is like a four hour drive or less I think if I ever get the van on the road.

I am waiting on a title from Ohio and just changed my address today and have not put a name on my box yet but did check the post office today when I was there and no mail held for either address.

If or ever I get it on the road I could bring three or four e bikes and my gaming machine and several other computers. :lol:

Not sure if anything will be on the road next month. The car needs repairs as it was banged up when I got it. You guys know I don't like putting money in gas vehicles. Also I can lock up a bike down on the porch so I am not thinking about 20" bikes.
I am thinking about the Schwinn and the new Currie ezip motor. :lol: Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Since you like chain drives so much, had you considered doing a Mid-Drive conversion?

I obviously lack the skills and knowledge to do so.

I would love a high output RC type motor for mid drive with gear reduction.

Complete bolt on 350w mid-drive kit was $159 delivered.
Can't get much simpler or cheaper?

RC motor would never be considered durable or reliable!
Most all are designed to be run at a certain optimal speed for only a few minutes at a time.

 

[latecurtis]

Complete bolt on 350w mid-drive kit was $159 delivered.
Can't get much simpler or cheaper?

Thats great if you weigh about 150 lbs and are happy with 15 mph top speed on the flat.

What I would be interested in is a kit which includes the 24V 900W Monster scooter motor. The motor is smaller than a 48V Unite motor and probably not much larger than the 350W motor. What modifications would be needed to replace the 350W motor with the 900W motor?

I should be able to bolt up a single 900W motor to the currie similar to how I did the unite motor at the beginning of this post.
I just went to sprocket calculator and got very interesting results.

The original Currie upgrade was with the 48V Unite motor running at 36V,2250 rpm and 750W. gearing = 24 mph.

The same set up with the 900W 2600 rpm motor with the 11T motor and 80T wheel sprocket = 900W and 27 mph.

Not only that but I was running three 22Ah SLAs. With the 900W motor a single 10.0 6S pack will do for short 2 or 3 mile runs. To me it is a no brainier. And for convenience I can lock it up downstairs on the porch in front of my friends security camera.

The perfect 24V heavy duty cargo bike right here on As the Hub . . . . . . . will happen this summer. As far as a 40+ mph build that would be a 1,500W 48V rear hub motor pushed to 66.6V and about 2200W like I mentioned earlier but without BMS.
It seems safer and simpler to charge three 10.0 6S packs individually rather than spending lots of money on a BMS and 18S charger. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Complete bolt on 350w mid-drive kit was $159 delivered.
Can't get much simpler or cheaper?

Thats great if you weigh about 150 lbs and are happy with 15 mph top speed on the flat.

350w can get a 150lb man 25mph. That's a real 25mph, not an "In ideal conditions" 25mph.

If I were I betting man:

350w Professionally Designed Brushless run through gears and a proper chain tensioner

vs

900w Adapted to purpose, brushed motor, single speed?

In a drag race of sufficient length, I *might* back the 900w bike. In any other race and on the road I'd be backing the 350w bike.

I'm being serious about this. Brushed and Brushless motors have the same peak efficiency, but while Brushless motors are "respectable" down to about 50% of top speed, brushed motors suffer badly any time they're not at their peak speed. Which means if your gearing is a bit off, if your weight is more than expected, if your chain is too tight, or there's even a mild incline, I'm guessing your 900w peak motor will average well less than 350w, and only on perfect straight flats with a strong tailwind can you can get near top speed.

 

[DrkAngel]

$159 Mid-drive ...
24V 350w @ my 36V = 525w
About 25mph in high gear ...

Through 11-34 rear sprockets ... (525w ÷ 11 x 34 = 1622w)
0 - ~10mph has the torque and acceleration of a 1622w motor!
Handles steeep hillls!

 

[latecurtis]

I did not know they made a 350W 24V brushless motor. I thought chain driven brushless motors started at 1,000w. I remember posting several 1,500W ones but rpm was 5,600 to 7,000. Too high to run without a gear reduction box.

I dont know how to run a motor thru the gears but if a 350W motor can do 25 mph than the 900W motor should do over 30 mph if it was hooked up to gears.

DA you are on for a race if I build the 900W 24V Currie however it must be on flat level ground. I will gear the 900W motor for 27 mph.

If I win then you will hook up the 900W motor to the gears for me for free so I can go up hills and 30+ mph.

If you win I will give you $50 to hook up the 900W motor to the gears. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Maximum speed is merely the product of proper gearing.
Running the motor through the "gears" gives me 7 gearing options!
@ 36V 525w works great for me:
34T >> 8mph = 1622w motor (geared for 25mph)
24T >> 12mph = 1145w motor
15T >> 18mph = 715w motor
13T >> 21mph = 620w motor
11T towards 25mph = 525w motor
But I do pedal assist when I want to blow away cars when the light turns green - evil laugh ...

 

[DrkAngel]

I did Speed test my ... 2nd, eZip Mountain Trailz ... before I turned it into my Snow Beast.
37V controller and battery = 693w.
16T wheel freewheel
=
a crouched 27mph - Was able to maintain 30mph with applied pedal assist!.
(Oem geared eZip @ 36V = 23mph top speed)

After I added quick disconnects to wheel-motor assemblies I could easily swap between different eBikes.
But it survived nicely! - I never dogged it up a hill at 2mph!!!
Steepest local hill is only 2 blocks long but a monster.
Made One Way, up hill, years ago due to cars sliding and crashing down with any snow or sometimes rain.
With a running start and substantial pedal assist I have hit the top at 18mph!

I did build one of my L\R hubs into a 700c wheel for use on my Haro.
450w eZip motor @ 44.4V = 832w
24V - 44.4V 28A controller (Lowering Amps, combined with pedal assist at lower speeds helps minimize the danger of motor damage!)
Pedal assist through 48T >> 11T should allow a sustainable 30mph+

But personally, I tend to prefer leisurely 15mph meandering along the trails to relax and cool off.
I can cruise for 3 hours-45miles with my homemade 25.9V 25.92Ah battery ... without pedal assist, or stressing battery..

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. "Go big or stay home" What they said 25 years ago in jail during a game of spades. :lol:

OK. Thanks for that information.

The race is on but I am choosing a different motor.

You can go ahead and shift all those gears and pedal assist with any brushless motor you like up to 1500W not 500+ watts at 36V.

That is the rules and if you win I will give you $100 to hook it up to gears. If I win you will hook it up for free.

I buy the parts either way though but I need a specific list / links to simply order.


Not sure which one though. Looking at two.

http://www.amazon.com/AmpFlow-A40-300-Brushed-Electric-Motor/dp/B00AG21R36/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1464426016&sr=8-18&keywords=ampflow

http://www.amazon.com/AmpFlow-A28-400-G-Electric-Gearmotor-12V/dp/B00AG6N9ZG/ref=sr_1_40?ie=UTF8&qid=1464426263&sr=8-40&keywords=ampflow

Really like the price on the first one and more than capable of winning the race.

A 27" bike with a 80T kings Custom spoke sprocket and an 11T #410 motor sprocket will propel the bike to 44 mph respectively.

A 77T for a 26" wheel which is the smallest I would go. GOOD LUCK. :lol: Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

I'll have to fly out to see this :lol:

DA, I would like to see the mid-drive you are using.
Want to try a mid-drive but can't sped the $700 for the Bafang at this time.

Dan

 

[DrkAngel]

But personally, I tend to prefer leisurely 15mph meandering along the trails to relax and cool off.
I can cruise for 3 hours-45miles with my homemade 25.9V 25.92Ah battery ... without pedal assist, or stressing battery..

I am strictly into "Legal" eBikes.
≤750w motor and ~20mph
Speed is limited at ~20mph unless I pedal assist ... or hit TURBO.
(25.9V >>> 37V Turbo switch works nicely!)

I do intend on a high speed capable build.
40mph for local, before expanding to 70mph highway capability.
I have the ETEK 8-16HP motor and an Altrax AXE 48V 300A controller.
But I am not foolish enough to mount them on anything less than a fully legal motorcycle chassis!

 

[Sunder]

Oooh. A race is on! Well, Latecurtis has thrown the gauntlet down, but the payoff for the bet doesn't seem all that fair. Free work vs underpaid work.

If I was there and a little younger, I'd take him on. After all, when I was 21, a mate was whining that his Naturally Aspirated car was never going to be as fast as a turbo WRX, so as a bet, I bought a $1200 bomb the same model as his and spent $5k to get it down to 0-100 in 5.5 seconds in full trim. Faster than a factory WRX.

 

[latecurtis]

So far I have found the parallel cables to charge the 48V SLA pack but only one bullet for the 12V SLA charger. The 20" 24V bike still has a flat tire and I dont have a safe way to charge LiPo unless I run an extension out in the back but then have to worry about kids and dogs.


The move has been a little much. I found the box my camera is in but did not take it out so dont know if I will see it again tomorrow or not. It may be awhile before I race anybody. I may never be too old to race. It is all the other things that need to happen before the race that is the issue now.

I need to fix up the car for winter. It needs work and e bikes suck in snow and rain. My Priorities need to come first before any new projects.

When all that is done I may not have the money for a 4 hp geared AmpFlow motor but still should be able to build the Currie with the 24V 900W motor and race against the 350W mid kit at 36V and over 500W.

At best I am looking at late summer or fall but I am not giving up on it.Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Good on you for focusing on the car. Everyone needs to learn how to work on their own car. Especially electronically controlled ones. It will teach you a lot about sensors and microprocessors. There are just too many rip-off mechanics out there. They can't make an honest living because of too many competitors, so most of them cut corners, if not outright rip you off.

I used to love tinkering with my car. I went hard core. I've stripped a motor down to bare block and head and reassembled it by myself. I've even looked into the firmware, and map edits. Some hard-core guys were rewriting the logic. Since I've programmed in assembler, that was within the realm of possibility for me, but no desire to, since I didn't want to change any of the factory behaviours.

 

[latecurtis]

Mostly body work. It got clipped pretty good before I bought it. Lucky it got inspected about a week before that.
Oil change check fluids and basic tune up for winter. thermostat if easy to get to. It runs a little hot.

Van is good. excellent running condition but still no paperwork on it. 6 banger in the van and four in the car.
Still have not found my bullet connectors. Need to set up charging station.

I need to use bullets on the SLAs if I run them on the Diamond Back as the clip terminals come of and so do the clips.
I still need another bullet to charge them in parallel as I dont have a 48V charger.

I would rather run the Schwinn with the 48V SLAs. even though the Dimond Back is better for the SLAs. The Schwinn is a smoother ride and 26" bikes are not an issue now as I can lock it up down on the porch.

The car is going off the road for a couple of months for repairs so my e bike projects are back in business.
Basically any type of race I may do with DA should be limited to 22.2V LiPo. Also limited spending as I am on a tight budget.

I am simply ordering the 24V 900W Monster Scooter kit for the Currie for $200 and a kings custom spoke sprocket to run it. The build will be less than $300. DA mentioned a mid drive 350W kit for around $150. I believe he said it was brushless. I would like to see it. I would love to know if the 900W motor would work as a substitute for the 350W brushless motor and what difference it would make in performance.

By the end of the summer it should be done. The month of June is two days away and I plan on building a second 20" bike with the parts I have to run 24V for a back up for the one with the flat tire.

Also the 24" build which requires custom brake work and a Kings 65T spoke kit for 30 mph gearing with the 48V 1,000W Unite motor. Thanks for posting


Just shot bottom pic. It is about 10 hours since the last pic. Got in argument with ol lady and took a walk. I needed exercise anyway. What all decent men should do instead of hollering and screaming or worse.

Everything fine when I got back as usual. -$3 for buses though so need to get a bike going. Working on charging station.
I Plan on combining Dans old packs for 22.2V as they probably wont last long at 44.4V. i can get more use at 22.2V.

Bottom pic shows I found Sky charger and Dell supply. 10.0 6s and cash box with dans LiPo on front porch. plus the SLAs. I need to find the Megacharger now. The 16Ah 22.2V pack is with the 20" bike with the flat tire. I need the extra bullets I ordered which are still missing.

Sick of the 48V SLA pack already and less than 5 miles on it with the Diamond Back. Probably split into 24V packs as i still have the original 24V SLA charger from the Currie somewhere.

I could spend money for a second 10.0 AH 6S pack but really dont need to now. I would rather spend the $200 on the 900W Monster scooter kit for the Currie before spending another $80 on more batteries.

the Currie was a beast at 36V and 22Ah at 750W with SLA. 30 lbs lighter and 900W of LiPo with that motor and geared for 27 mph instead of 24 mph will impress me even if it wont impress you guys. LOL. Like to see a 22.2V brushless mid drive keep up with it. Mabye at 30+V but the bet is for 22.2V or 6S LiPo.

44.4 or 48V is unnecessary for any type of e bike unless 30+ mph is desired. 22.2V will work ecellent for cargo or just go up to about 27 mph and will prove it with the Currie build. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

however i found the plugs to charge the 48V SLA pack.
i am drunk and played pirated tides of fortune for about 16 out of the 18 hours awake.
just played bridge base online for awhile
over 900 points against bots.
white coller crooks taught me in proison back early 90s.
bridge best card game ever. total skill like chess

anyone ever play it
/

not good but like it.

need to get something runnin soon. turned plates of car in.
done with gas for awhile.

sucks it easier to pollute than not. aal vehicles sjhould be electric. frock fossil fuel

 

[latecurtis]

planet needs a labotomey.

fossil fuel will destroy mankind.

not much hope.

greedy oil giants will prevail and future generations will suffer and raise up to destroy future generations of oil /money nazies.

only civil war i see will be to save our planet from selfish greedy people who continue to pump poisen into the environment.

I am truelly ashamed that I contributed to the carbon poisen again.

i m thought i was past that but got sucked oin again. sorry. thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

.
I thought about creating an Index for this thread ...
But got frustrated when I remembered that I had to repeat the exact same thing many times in many different ways ... before the info finally sunk in.

I guess a summary might be a more reasonable project.

Summary:
1 . Use a fuse - can save a whole lot of heartache
2 . Don't run battery till it slows down - kills battery lifespan for pitiful extra range
3 . Recharge SLA immediately after any use
4 . Do not use FLA battery charger on SLA
5 . Brakes are a good idea - front brakes can give 300% better stopping power - compared to rear brakes alone
6 . Powerful front drive motor is suicidal
7 . Small battery size kills range, speed and lifespan
8 . Learn how to solder properly!
9 . Electrical tape is not the solution to all wiring projects!
10 . Gearing too high produces pitiful performance while needlessly damaging motor and battery
11 . Pedal assisting is smarter than ... battery only till dead ... then pedaling, or pushing, the lead sled home
12 . Minimal pedal assist on a hill can greatly increase speed while saving a great deal of battery and motor life
13 . 5A alligator clips don't work well with 40A controller
14 . Turn controller switch off before attaching battery
15 . Use pre-charge resistor to avoid connection spark
16 . Lead acid batteries weigh 500% as much a LiPo for same rated capacity
17 . Same rated capacity LiPo vs SLA - At 1C LiPo has 300% the usable energy - At 3C LiPo has 500% the usable energy
18 . Lights help when riding at night
19 . Riding against traffic is illegal and very dangerous
.. 30 mph car >> 20mph bike = 10 sec reaction time & 10mph impact
.. vs
.. 30 mph car >< 20mph bike = 2 sec reaction time & 50mph impact
20 . 2 x 4s and Triceratops looking bolts don't make a very good motor mounting bracket
21 . Charge SLA at a maximum .125C (≤1.25A charger for 10Ah battery; ≤1.50A charger for 12Ah battery; ≤2.25A charger for 18Ah battery)
22 . There is a bit of difference between between a custom built super heavy duty frame with a motorcycle front end with dual front disc brakes that happens to use a 20" motorcycle tire ... and a rejected (thrown out) 20" cheapo kiddie bike?
23 . NYS - Exceeding 20mph, not pedaling, riding in illegal manner, can get you fined! Combine with being drunk or obnoxious attitude ... think eBike seizure, large fines and possibly ... jail time?

 

[DAND214]

I thought about creating an Index for this thread ...
But got frustrated when I remembered that I had to repeat the exact same thing in many different way before the info finally sunk in.

I guess a summery might be a more reasonable project.

Summery:
1. Use a fuse - can save a whole lot of heartache
Don't run battery till it slows down - kills battery lifespan for pitiful extra range

that's great DA. Short and to the point?

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

The SLAs are charged. It took all day with the 1.8A three stage SLA charger to charge them and I still cant find the 400W Mega-charger Dan sent that I was using. I got the 500W power supply but not the charger.

Moving has been a true nightmare however I will be able to solder out on the back porch with a fan and plenty of ventilation.

Believe it or not the problem with these connectors is not that they are not soldered, it is they cant be soldered as I don't have a 48V charger and have to parallel charge as I don't have the money to buy a 48V charger.

My rent is $100 more every month and I am behind in electric and gas. There is no more money for a long while to order anything and I don't have a clue how to change my address on pay pal and e bay.

The alligator clips as well as those clips came off repeatedly during the few miles I road the Dimond Back with the new hub motor. I suspect a bad spot in the tire as there is a lot of vibration when riding the bike which may be contributing to the connection continually unhooking.

Once I fix the flat tire on the 20" bike it will probably be the only bike I can ride as I have 22.2V@16AH and a 22.2V 10AH back up. I am not willing to split up my 8.0 6S packs for 44.4V@8Ah and Dan's packs would only be good for two mile round trips at 44.4V.

I still have the 500W 24V motor and 80T #25 sprocket and enough parts to build a second 20" bike for back up if I can find the #25 9T motor sprocket.

I could ride the Schwinn with the 48V10AH SLAs but they would die quick. The same thing with the 24" bike with the 20" wheels. 48V and 1,000W will kill the SLAs quick especially with it being over-geared as I can not afford to order the 65T from kings Custom sprockets now.

It looks like I am limited to 20" kids bikes for now even though I can easily lock up 26" or larger bikes downstairs. I would love to build the Currie with the 900W 24V motor but I got bills which need to be paid first. Thanks.

LC. out.

6/4 2:38 am. Just put the 48V SLA pack on the desulfator until tomorrow or when I run it in a couple of days. I will top it off before I run it. I would like to run the Schwinn but would be better for the SLAs to run the Diamond Back because of the gearing I guess. I do listen. That is some list DA made and all for me. I am flattered. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

That is some list DA made and all for me. I am flattered. Thanks.

Just some highlights of the things I've been telling you ... tried telling you ... these last couple years. - Still using 5A alligator clips through 40A controller!

The alligator clips as well as those clips came off repeatedly during the few miles I road the Dimond Back with the new hub motor. I suspect a bad spot in the tire as there is a lot of vibration when riding the bike which may be contributing to the connection continually unhooking.

More likely ... overloaded bearing is failing ... ?

 

[latecurtis]

Not sure but is a nice day and can try out the bike and shoot a video. The reason I suspect the tire is the new tube I put in was rather large and may have twisted a little. Not even sure if front or rear but with my luck probably front which means I may have to reinstall the motor. :x

The video may tell, not sure. The 20" cargo bike with the motor on the front via 2 by 4 may be the most reliable bike until I get a second 10.0 6S pack so I can run 44.4V with the Schwinn. Thanks for posting and stay tuned for a video.

I know it is NOT recommended but at this point with a o budget I would rather ride the Schwinn with the SLAs.

If I were to keep speeds around 10 mph at 48V SLA and aggressive pedal assist up hills or walk up steep hills and use it mostly on the flat or gradual incline could I get any useful time out of the SLAs until I can afford 44.4V LiPo? thanks for posting.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

Fixed the flat tire on the 20" bike. went to Wall-Mart to get those two rugs as I just did the floors yesterday with some stain and poly mixed that the new landlord left on the back porch.

The floors were not done and the chair put a lot of scratches on the floor. It looked terrible and I am trying to learn from my mistakes so I don't have to repeat another nightmare like the last place.

I don't want to damage any property here. I have not rode the bike since the flat about two weeks ago. The pedal chain don't seem to work for some reason but I made it back with the two rugs. It is functional but that is it. Not geared for steep hills like the Diamond Back but it gets me around barely. It will work until I get a 26" bike going.

I think I found a good 24" wheel with a good tire for that 24" build. All it will need is a good brake adjustment and that 65T sprocket for that to work. I will need a second 10.0 6S pack though for 44.4V.

The stairs here are almost a foot wider so much easier to deal with plus I can lock a bike up downstairs on the porch but will need to bring it upstairs to charge the way it is set up. The batteries are not detachable.

I still want to run the 48V SLAs with the Schwinn. It is the only 26" bike I have running now and now that I can lock it downstairs I want to ride it and cant afford 44.4V LiPo this month so I plan on setting it up this week to ride with the SLAs.
Even if the SLAs only last a couple of months by that time I should have 44.4V LiPo. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

LC, I'm still using LiPos older than the ones I sent you.
What you need to do is charge those babies all the way and discharge them and see what's left. It takes a long time with the charger you have but it does give you an idea if they are still useable or not.

So today I went only 8.5 miles and it took 2.7ah of battery. Had 30mph head wind one way and a good tail wind the other way. So at a 3 to one ratio, I should be able to get at least 25 miles. same batteries you now have. I do pedal assist as much as I can. Top speed is only 33mph average was 17mph. No big hills other than the sled hill, rode up it yesterday and the bike was going faster at the top than I started. Boy was it slick sliding down, muddy and wet at the bottom. Either way it's all so much fun, even going to the store for food or to home depot. It's still a blast after over 10 years.

Dan