new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

Nice bike Sunder and I hope you enjoy it. How much for insurance over there and do you have to take a motorcycle test ?

As you know I have three e bikes running. The Schwinn which I should bring in so it dont rust as I hardly ever ride it and the Diamond Back which both have good strong reliable hub motors.

Also I will most likely be building a fourth 20" bike with a motor on the front like I had. The motor that is too much for a bicycle I might put on a brand new bike if I ever save the money. I was thinking about a 26" FAT mountain bike. The kind with the really fat tires. Those type bikes are really heavy duty and have disk brakes front and back. Although not as heavy duty as that electric scooter Sunder is getting which tops out at 70 mph they should be good for 40 mph.

Please let me know what brand would be my best choice for the build. I am not looking for the highest price but the most solid bike for the buck.
Please let me know as I am really not familiar with those types of bikes. Thanks again everyone for posting.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

I'm already a licenced motorcycle rider. Compulsory insurance will be about $80 a year. (Covers everyone except me). Optional insurance is usually about $300-800 a year. Haven't gotten a formal quote yet.

I was looking at a full fat bike (like 3-4" tyres). Or possibly just a wider tyre, full suspension bike. Maybe in the future, but not for now. Would only need one for a faster build. Now that I'm getting a scooter (Hopefully), I think my desire for a faster eBike will drop.

Unfortunately I haven't done enough research on Fat bikes to give you any advice.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. good news / bad news.

Well since the good news happened first I soldered the bullet plugs and ran the 44V LiPo today to go to Doug's house. I knew right away when I turned the knob of the pot I was in for a ride. Usually I have to turn it more before it even engages the motor. It was very responsive and a totally different feel than when I ran this 24" bike with the 20" wheel on the back about 7 months ago. I think it was back in February or March.

Now I see what DA said about that new motor I looked at being too much motor for a bicycle. I went around the corner to that side st. and got into the throttle / pot. and could not turn it all the way as I was at the end of the st. too quickly.

I went past Stewart's to a section of road where it is smooth and goes for quite a stretch with no side roads. mabye between 1/8 and 1/4 of a mile.
I don't believe that I turned the knob all the way before I felt fear in my heart and had to stop and turn the knob the other way to slow down.

I was worried about the chain spinning off even though it don't seem too loose. I am not used to that much acceleration and I could tell by the sound of the motor it was still winding up and had not reached it's maximum rpm yet. There is no doubt that if the chain is stable and stays on that it will exceed 30 mph now.

When I left the packs were put on the balancer and one was slightly under 23V and the second just over 23V. 22.82V and 23.21V I think. The cells were all between 3.83 and 3.86V.

I took it easy after the two short runs where I did not reach full power or throttle. It walked up the hill like a dream. The gearing seems to be perfect at 44V with the 60 tooth wheel and 11 tooth motor sprockets. Before with the 56 tooth spoke and 11 tooth with the 48V controller with the LVC cuttoff , 48V SLA batteries and alligator clips it did not want to go up a hill half as steep and I had to pedal assist. Today it walked up the hill with a slight twist of the pot. Not even close to 1/2 way.

Mabye it was because the SLAs were new and not broke in yet. It also could have been over 53V SLAs with 35 mph gearing vs about 46V of LiPo with 32.5 mph gearing or the bullet connectors vs. the alligator clips. I think it was a combination of all those things plus the LVC but there is no doubt that it is a totally different bike and is SCARY fast..

Oh and Now comes the bad news.

 

[latecurtis]

I could only get a reading from one of the packs with the balancer when I got home. It is always the first thing I do when I get home before charging them. Since they both have balance extensions because they were in the LiPo bag and cash box my first thought was the balance extension came unplugged. As soon as I found the key to the cash box and opened it and started to remove them for inspection I became suspicious as they felt kind of warm and it is kind of cool outside tonight and on the trip home was only going about 15 mph as I did not want to run them too low. As you can see the healthy pack reads above 3.7V on all cells so it was nothing I did tonight.

What I did wrong was NOT listening to you guys and the good advice when I was told NOT to order cheap LiPo off of e bay instead of going thru Hobby King.

Please let me know the proper way to dispose of the pack as it is currently outside in the LiPo bag and I want to keep the LiPo bag that Dan sent to me for the new packs I will need to order from Hobby King. I need to do this very soon and definitely before it rains. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

I could only get a reading from one of the packs with the balancer when I got home. It is always the first thing I do when I get home before charging them. Since they both have balance extensions because they were in the LiPo bag and cash box my first thought was the balance extension came unplugged. As soon as I found the key to the cash box and opened it and started to remove them for inspection I became suspicious as they felt kind of warm and it is kind of cool outside tonight and on the trip home was only going about 15 mph as I did not want to run them too low. As you can see the healthy pack reads above 3.7V on all cells so it was nothing I did tonight.

What I did wrong was NOT listening to you guys and the good advice when I was told NOT to order cheap LiPo off of e bay instead of going thru Hobby King.

Please let me know the proper way to dispose of the pack as it is currently outside in the LiPo bag and I want to keep the LiPo bag that Dan sent to me for the new packs I will need to order from Hobby King. I need to do this very soon and definitely before it rains. Please let me know. Thanks.

LC. out.

The correct way to get rid of these safely is to discharge them to zero then dispose of normally.

1. Discharge as flat as you can - using a charger, or just by riding your bike down to zero.
2. Make up a (plastic) bucket of salt water - concentration doesn't matter too much, but putting a little more in will speed up the process.
3. Put them in the salt water bucket away from anything combustible over night.
4. By now they should be very puffed. - Measure the voltage. If you don't get anything, they're safe to dispose of. When the garbage truck crushes them, a small amount of hydrogen may come out, but without an ignition source (zero voltage), it won't ignite.

 

[latecurtis]

There is no way I am hooking that thing up to a charger or bringing it back inside the house. When I hooked it to the balancer I did not get any reading. The picture shows the other pack with normal readings. The reason why I removed the pack was because I got no reading from the balancer. I thought the balance plug was unhooked.

I am NOT hooking that thing up to any controller either to discharge it by riding. The pail of salt water sounds like a good idea. I can toss it into the pail and run. If I had my pellet gun I could toss it into a pail of water placed on the concrete away from anything flammable and shoot it from about 6 feet away. :lol: :lol:

It looks like the only way I am running 44V now is with Dans old packs. I will need to take them out and inspect them also before using them.
I wish I could get DA to make me one of his safe reliable home made battery packs. I would gladly wire him some money from Wall- Mart to make me one. I am really pissed too as I was going to finally get a speedo to see how fast it goes. I need to mount the camera somewhere in the back where I can see the chain moving to make sure it is stable and not all over.

I understand and realize the laws of physics and amount of torque put on to the bike frame , wheels and any moving parts. At 22V LiPo it is minimum and maybe a little boring. At 36V it is very peppy and kind of exciting. At 44V LiPo that thing is downright scary. It is then I begin to worry about the structural integrity of all moving parts and feel a need to check for any weak link. An axel nut that is a little loose, the wheel bearings and especially the chain and sprockets.Any sign of possible failure of any part. Kind of like a step ladder. five feet from the ground , no big deal. 10 feet you kind of notice each step and become aware of any loose step. 20 feet You really pay close attention. :lol:

Now a 40 mph capable bike would be like on a step ladder 40 feet above ground. If there is a structural failure there is a good chance of suffering a broken neck or at least a broken leg. I happen to be petrified of heights so this is a perfect analogy. I am not saying I am not building a 40 mph bike with that new motor I posted. What I am saying is after tonight I finally realize what DA told me several times to do with strapping cinder blocks to the bike and going to the top of a very steep hill. Like Doug would say. " I am good" That means I think I will pass on that. :lol:

I am NOT giving up on the 40 mph build though. I am just going to make sure there is NO weak link. The bike will need to be rock solid and I will go to the top of a really steep hill out in the country or out of town and get it going at least 45 mph without a motor or any cement blocks to see how the bike handles before I install that crazy 24 pound motor. Thanks much.

LC. out.

 

[DAND214]

So how did you get home? If the battery was dead you would of been dead in the water with no power.
have you put a volt meter to it? Puffed is not good but not the end all the time. But since you are scared of LiPo I guess you should kill it and dump it.

Hobby King is not all that great but a better chance of good more than bad packs. yes there are duds but things are looking better as they learn.

Finally you have fear while riding. Still wish you had a speedo on it. I don't know which bike combo you ran but I still don't like long chains at any speed. You need to let us know what todays/any days combo you are running so we know what you are talking about.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

Finally you have fear while riding. Still wish you had a speedo on it. I don't know which bike combo you ran but I still don't like long chains at any speed. You need to let us know what todays/any days combo you are running so we know what you are talking about.

It ran good all the way home but like I said twice in my posts there was no readings when I hooked it up to the balancer. I posted the pics of the other 10.0 6S pack and it shows all cells above 3.7V. This proves that I did not run the packs low..

As far as the combination I was running I have the exact specs.

bike. - 24" huffy 90s frame 24" front wheel and 20" rear wheel 36 spoke with a 60 tooth spoke sprocket. 11 tooth motor sprocket.
Voltage. approx 46V . rpm approx 2850 Power approx 950W gearing approx 30 mph.

These figures are based on real time application compared to factory specs at 48V. The motor is rated at 48V , 3,000 rpm and 1,000W
however actual voltage was between 45 and 46V so rpm would be lower and power slightly lower also.

When I ran the bike about 7 months ago it was with 48V Lipo charged to around 53V and the spoke sprocket was a 56 tooth so gearing was over 35 mph.
Also the chain was way too tight and the SLA batteries were brand new and not broke in yet plus there was a low LVC cuttoff.

This application used the variable controller with the built in pot. which has a 50V limit. Basically you would not even believe it to be the same bike.
When I ran the SLAs at 53V I had a pedal chain on it and had to pedal assist on a moderate hill. Last night with the knob about 1/4 throttle it walked up the hill like nothing with no pedal assist.

The difference was like night and day. The bike accelerates like a rocket. I will need to run your old LiPos until I can afford a pair of decent 10.0 6S LiPos. As far as the puffed up pack not only was it not showing up anything on the balancer and puffed up. It was also very warm and almost hot to the touch. I am investing in a pellet gun when I get my money on the third and I am having my first LiPo shoot. :lol: Thanks for posting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DVhawIMcqI&feature=youtu.be

Note that the puffed up pack is in a safe place until the LiPo shoot. I am going to turn it so that it is up against the washer so nobody can open the door and remove the pack as I am about to cash in empty cans with the shopping cart in the video. Also the car and van in the video both belong to me and are off the road. Also I need to bring the Schwinn upstairs so it don't get rusty.

I also need to solder up some parallel cables to run Dan's old packs so we can get a video if I do get the speedo. I am hoping DA can make me a home made 46V pack. I am willing to pay a fair price. I can send a money gram from Wall-Mart. I am sick of getting ripped off by cheap defective LiPo packs online. Thanks again.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

1st
Try multimeter on bullet connectors.
Then
Use pointy ends of multimeter on side of balance plugs, against metal points, to test each cell.

Likely 1 damaged balance wire-lead ... ?

 

[latecurtis]

Ok. Thanks DA.

That will happen tomorrow outside if it don't rain. I will need to calibrate my multi-meter as it is way off.

If there is a chance of removing the bad cell then it would be a 5S pack. I would need to do the same though with the other good pack for a 36V set up which would run great with any of the three bikes I currently have running. However I am not capable of doing such work and I doubt there is any way to send that thru the mail safely. If it caught on fire in transit I could be charged as a terrorist.

Please let me know if you are willing to make me a 46V pack and I will pay you a fair price for your time.
maximum charge 46V minimum charge or empty = 44V.

This Voltage is optimum for the gear ratio of the bike. The acceleration is intense and it seems to roll up moderate hills at a steady speed with less than 1/2 throttle. Thanks for your time and patience. The video testing the pack will be up tomorrow if it don't rain. I am charging the camera battery now.

Thanks again.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

The cell balancer won't work if one cell is dead, but the others are still good.

So there's a fair chance that there's energy left in the cells.

Even if you just dispose of the pack and cause a fire in the garbage truck, it won't be a big deal, as garbage trucks are set up to deal with small fires, as some people put embers from their fireplace in the bin, despite being told not to.

 

[latecurtis]

That makes sense. I would like to simply remove the bad cell which is obviously the one on the top in the picture. If it were somewhere in the center it would physically appear different somehow but I cant imagine how but am about to explore it on google images.

Also besides making 5S packs splitting both packs in half would create three 3S packs and if ran in parallel would be perfect for that new 24 pound 12 to 13V 3 HP motor. That would be a much better choice than a LiPo shoot and I could still get my moneys worth out of the packs however shipping a pack to DA with a puffed up cell definitely is a bad idea as I am sure homeland security would agree.

That takes me back to the LiPo shoot which is gaining popularity with my friends who live downstairs as they love setting off fireworks so the plan is two pails of water to put out the fire and a 1200 feet per second pellet rifle at Wall-Mart. It will also be a you tube video. :lol:

Let me know if someone has a better idea as if I can get any use out of the pack safely I am all ears. I will need to shop around for new packs as Dan's packs will not hold up long with that 44V setup. The only reason to hook 44V up to that bike is to see how fast it will go so there is no mercy on the batteries.

I can put put up most hills around here with the 22V pack and cruise up hills nicely with the 36V SLAs. I am kind of pissed off though that I spent about $80 on that pack only a few months ago and only used it a couple times with the Schwinn. I am not sure it is even broke in and now it needs to be shot like a sick and suffering horse. Thanks again guys.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

When I left the packs were put on the balancer and one was slightly under 23V and the second just over 23V. 22.82V and 23.21V I think. The cells were all between 3.83 and 3.86V.

Uunh ... am curious as to why you have mostly discharged packs on balancers?

I mentioned that it looked, by the problems that you were having, that you were balancing packs twice ... but you insisted that you weren't!


Balancing twice negates the possibility of not needing to balance at all.
If no self-discharging cells, with moderate discharge rates, cells will naturally charge back to the same balanced voltage they began with.
Unless absolutely perfectly matched cells, equal at full charge will be at differing voltages when reasonably discharged ... if you "balance" discharged cells it will force them to be unbalanced when recharged.

 

[latecurtis]

Uunh ... am curious as to why you have mostly discharged packs on balancers?

I mentioned that it looked, by the problems that you were having, that you were balancing packs twice ... but you insisted that you weren't!


Balancing twice negates the possibility of not needing to balance at all.
If no self-discharging cells, with moderate discharge rates, cells will naturally charge back to the same balanced voltage they began with.
Unless absolutely perfectly matched cells, equal at full charge will be at differing voltages when reasonably discharged ... if you "balance" discharged cells it will force them to be unbalanced when recharged.

Those packs were LILO charged so I would stay well under the 50V cap limit on the variable controller with the built in pot.
4.17 * 12 = 50.04V.

Also to limit the rpm thru voltage for PROPER gearing. Tricks I learned from listening to you DA. That is why I know I did not do what you are thinking I may have did.

After I hooked the packs up in reverse polarity to the variable controller I did not do anything with them as they were already charged to 4.1V
However they should have been higher voltage to start so either they self discharged because they are junk batteries or I took a short spin on the Schwinn and forgot but what I said I did not do did not happen.

I mentioned that it looked, by the problems that you were having, that you were balancing packs twice ... but you insisted that you weren't!

I always balance charge after running any packs. If two packs are off the next day by a volt and I plan to run them in series then I will balance the higher pack down to closer match the lower voltage pack before running them.

Also if for some reason both packs have cells that are way off the next day after BALANCE charging like 4.07 , 4.02 , 4.06 , 4.01 , 4.08 , 4.07. Then I may put them on a balancer for 15 or 20 min. to get them all closer to 4.05. Then try to do the same with the other pack before running them.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns.

I have been charging and running the SLAs three at a time for 36V operation. It is simple and safe. I still need to solder Dan's packs and get a speedo for 44V operation. I am trying to figure out how to mount the camera so I can see what the chain is doing at maximum speed. It is easy when the chain is on the front wheel to see it but not on the back at 25 + mph.

The puffed up pack is still in the dryer waiting the LiPo shoot. When I do buy LiPo again I will need at least a 1 year warranty. I did not check the one that is puffed to see if there is a warranty or not. I have become a leader on the pirate game which is a huge responsibility leading a brotherhood with multiple players all over the world. People depend on me now to make important decisions. I also have my gaming machine and other computers I need to get up and running. It is also the first of the month so I will be doing a lot of running around shopping and paying bills. Thanks for posting.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

I have become a leader on the pirate game which is a huge responsibility leading a brotherhood with multiple players all over the world. People depend on me now to make important decisions. I also have my gaming machine and other computers I need to get up and running.

All hail LC the pirate king!

 

[latecurtis]

Nice picture. I am honored.

Food stamps are in and the cargo bike has air in both tires for a change. I have been running the 22v LiPo packs a lot.
Two 8Ah packs in parallel. It put puts up the hills a little slow but makes it up the ones I need to travel.

I am fully charging them as I have a five mile round trip tomorrow and will be picking up a meat pack at the meat market.

Yes I have been playing Pirates all day. I am going for a walk now to exercise my heart and pick up something for my second meal.

I always eat twice and take my BP pills before I start drinking beer. I watched Code of Honor with Steven Seagal last night or early this morning. Awesome movie. Thanks for posting.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Vrv-ZIK3BI&feature=youtu.be

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the Lipo Fire Burns.

Running 36V SLAs. Still pissed off over that puffed up pack. $85 down the tubes. Basically I don't have a 44V pack until I combine those old packs I got from Dan.
I had to make a quick run downtown to pick up $20 my friend owed me so I figured I would take my camera along. I mounted it on the back. Now I got to go to Wall-Mart.I am walking for that as the three SLAs I abused in the video are on the mega-charger. I have the other three SLAs I could use but would rather walk and get some exercise for my heart. Thanks and talk to you all later.


LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

A couple days ago, there was a company selling ex-test LTO batteries for stupidly, stupidly cheap. As in 30-35 cents per Ah, for a 2.4v cell. Typical prices are $3-5 per Ah + shipping, so this was >90% off. Unfortunately, they were in Illinois, and unwilling to ship. There were 30Ah cells for $9 each. You could have had a 48v, 30Ah, virtually indestructible battery for less than $200 and a long drive to pick them up.

The thing is, LTO batteries last 10-20,000 cycles and are estimated to last longer than 10 years - some estimates up to 30 years, and they survive overcharging, and can be discharged to 0v, with only minimal loss in performance. So there's almost no way you can accidentally destroy them. Some people put over/under discharge protection on them, but it's virtually impossible to buy an LTO BMS - because it's simply not necessary in most use cases to balance them.

I'm planning on building one for my electric scooter, as soon as my electric scooter is registered, and I know that I'm using it regularly to justify the cost.

 

[999zip999]

Link please.

 

[Sunder]

Not sure how to find ended auctions, but here's one I had bookmarked. It was already assembled and so more per kwh than the single cells he was selling. Maybe message him and ask about the rest?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lithium-battery-LTO-48v-nominal-12ah-20s-2-6packs-1-8pack-/232041793238?hash=item3606c4c6d6:g:b7AAAOSwV0RXp-TC

 

[DrkAngel]

Alternate inventory ... still available.
Lithium battery LTO 18v nominal 8s ~10ah - $65

 

[latecurtis]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lithium-battery-LTO-18v-nominal-8s-10ah/232073804260?_trksid=p2047675.c100037.m2107&_trkparms=aid%3D444000%26algo%3DSOI.DEFAULT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140814145201%26meid%3Dd26dcc6ab33f4b23a53883b04e5ae9b8%26pid%3D100037%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26sd%3D232041793238

 

[latecurtis]

LOOKS LIKE A PERFECT MATCH !!!

3 hp at 13.6 VOLT D.C.

2.75 hp at 12 VOLT D.C.

.75 hp at 6 VOLT D.C.