new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

You feel like everything is potentially lethal. I shorted the battery by accidentally melting through the insulation while working on a different terminal. Molten metal everywhere. Thankfully no injuries, in fact, some burned specks on my shirt.

WoW. Mable you feel like that because it IS LETHAL.

I am nervous plugging in 22V LiPo and your playing around with voltage like THAT. Holy cripes!!! 150V

Doug is putting the 26" Diamond Back together today hopefully. I was over there last night and brought a computer home in my rear cargo basket. I could have swore I had a flat tire on the last half a mile home. 8.0 -6S LiPo packs are reaching the end of there life. I will need to bring the 10.0 -6S pack with me for the return trip when I go to Doug's next time. Also the old packs Dan sent are still out on the front porch . I need to get some solder and make parallel cables as they are 5.0 packs and will need to run them in parallel.

The old packs and one new 6S pack will get me thru the winter but if I am building all these e bikes I will need new packs come spring and may get them sooner if I get a good deal on them. Then there is the LiPo shoot which will be coming up soon. The first LiPo for the shoot is the puffed up one in the dryer outside. Stay tuned on As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. :lol: :lol:

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

22v will barely give you a burn if the arc touches you. It certainly won't conduct through your body, unless you touch it with an open cut, and the electricity can flow through your blood (Which is conductive), rather than your skin (which is not conductive).

150v will conduct through your skin, which does mean that it is possible to kill you. Possibly through arrhythmia, or through the sheer force of the burn. Those batteries can drive over 40kw, which is more than a house power point can drive.

The full range of 16Ah Multistars are still on special - I suspect it's a new "low price". They're cheaper per Ah than the 20Ah cells.

It's a pity I didn't wait 2 weeks. I could have made my 36S pack from 6x6 rather than 9x4.

I think in hind sight, after further testing, I should have gone 12 x 6, and removed the old LiFePo4 cells. It would have cost me $500 more, but more power still, similar range, but nearly 100kg lighter bike. Not too late to get more, I guess.

 

[latecurtis]

I just got the 11T motor sprocket for #410 bicycle chain and will be installing the 800W motor of the front of the 20" cargo bike tonight. I will be taking off the 56T spoke sprocket from the 29" wheel and putting it on the 20" wheel.

I used the sprocket calculator program on page 71 to check the gearing.

The motor currently on there is a 24V 500W 2500 rpm motor. A 56T sprocket and 11T motor sprocket = 29 mph which is about 10 mph over-geared.

The 36V 800W motor turns 2,750 rpm at 36V and 1834 rpms at 24V. 24V and 533W gearing = 21.5 mph which will work if i get some pedal assist.

The 24" cargo bike I am currently riding has the 48V 1,000W Unite motor running at about 24V with 6S LiPo and 1500 rpm geared for 17.5 mph. Lately it has been struggling up hills on the way back from Doug's house but am thinking it is because the batteries are reaching the end of their useful life cycle as they are cheap e bay batteries. I will need new batteries.

That is the current build. I will have to use the 24V 500W motor for a different application. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Have a look in the Hobbyking Bargain bin. Everything there is usually 20% off or less. So start looking around the $29.99 bin and work upwards. As long as you aren't too picky about how you assemble your cells, you should be able to find something that works for you. Even if you're making 12S using 4 x 3S, or 3 x 4S, or 2 x 6S, etc.

It's a pity the Multistars are no longer on special. They were REALLY cheap, and they've worked out well so far for me.

 

[DAND214]

How can the LiPo you got this year be done? I have packs that are about 5 years old and are still 80% capacity. It won't help buying better batteries if you keep killing them. Yes, maybe the crap is crap but you don't ride enough to USE them up, you over gear and under volt most of the builds. LOW VOLTAGE is great for a car starter for that 5 to 10 seconds, That's it. You need to pedal on starts and boy you need to pedal up hills.

Yeh Sunder, the Multistars turned out great for me too. I did get them one time cheap but there are cheap to begin with. My first two packs are from the first batch and they are still going strong. That's two summers now and in between. Still holding their balance too.

Dan

 

[Sunder]

This looks good value:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/zippy-compact-4000mah-10s-25c-lipo-pack.html

10S battery - basically a 36v equivalent, no harnesses, no cutting apart the packs.

A non-equalising battery charger should cut off at around 41-42 volts, which is perfect for a 10S battery. Just make sure it doesn't have a equalisation function, which is usually 5-10% more.

Get a 10S BMS plug and play, and it should look after itself.

 

[latecurtis]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=10S%20LiPo%20battery%20charger&rt=nc&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=10&_udhi=50

Will this charger work for that battery ?

I like the 10S pack and it would work well for the Schwinn and Diamondback Hub motors. I would consider ordering two and hooking them in parallel but the two LiPo chargers I own are limited to 6S charging and I cannot afford to order another expensive one.

I would need to get a balancer though for 10S LiPo.

I was also interested in 7S packs for my two chain drive motors. I would need a 7S charger similar to that 10S cheapo one also. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

Yeah, that charger would work, but then, so should the original Ezip charger, right? Do you still have that?

You also don't need a balancer. You can use one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Balance-BMS-PCM-21A-w-Temp-Switch-for-10S-36V-37V-Li-ion-Li-Po-battery-10S21W001-/321790774602?hash=item4aec398d4a:g:x~8AAOSwu4BVioFj

You can also balance LiPo packs in parallel, so you only need one, no matter how many 10S packs you have.

 

[latecurtis]

As the Hub Motor Turns and the LiPo Fire Burns. 4S LiPo is better for me.

I just did the math on sprocket calculator. 36V@800W and 2,750 rpm.
4V * 8 = 32V. - two 4S LiPo packs in series.

36V / 9 = 4

2,750 rpms / 9 = 305 rpms

800W / 9 = 88W

According to sprocket calculator gearing with a 60T spoke sprocket and the 11T motor sprocket I have = 26.5 mph at 712W.

If I use the 56T I have now gearing will be for 21.5 mph at 24V and 533W. I will probably run it with 6S LiPo for now but two 4S packs and a 60T spoke sprocket is the upgrade when I can afford it. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

I'd be curious for you to buy an inline current meter - a cheap one, not a cycle analyst or anything like that. Then ring around a bike store, and ask them if they will let you use a dyno for a couple runs for say $5-10. Then install the current meter, and do the dyno test and see how much power you're really using, and making.

Maths is great in a lab, but your bike is not a lab. With everything from alligator clips to bad tension on a roller chain, you could get some very surprising results

 

[latecurtis]

With everything from alligator clips to bad tension on a roller chain, you could get some very surprising results

I only use alligator clips with SLA batteries.

When I run LiPo I use 4.5 mm bullet plug connectors.

Also the motor on this build is on the front vs the rear so that may explain why the 24" cargo bike with the motor on the back will run slower than the front mount motor as the rear motor the current has to go thru over 3 foot of 10 gauge wire where the front mount motor will also go thru 10 gauge wire but less than a foot. That should make a bit of difference I would think. We shall see.

The bike I am working on now also has the option of hooking SLAs up in the rear.
13.25 * 2 = 26.5V
13.25 *3 = 39.75V

Both configurations will be possible with this new cargo bike but with alligator clips and about 3 feet of 10 gauge wire.
We will compare both of those voltages to the 6S LiPo. 4.17 * 6 = 25.02V. However the LiPo will only go thru a foot of 10 gauge wire and use the bullets instead of the clips.

Also we can upgrade to 8 gauge wire and gold plated 10 amp alligator clips or I can get rid of the clips by soldering bullet connectors to the SLA battery terminals. We shall see. I can test all of these voltages and modifications on flat land and up hills.

I can almost guarantee from experience with unite motors that between 30 and 36V will work best for climbing hills. Also I would be willing to bet on 4S LiPo packs in series to steal the show! 32V with that 36V 800W motor and that gearing will prove to be best for hill climbing and 26 mph on the flat. Yes Dan I need to order a speedo. I think I will do that when I order two 4S LiPo packs. I would like to order at least 10.0 - 4S packs and maybe 16.0 if they are affordable. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[latecurtis]

I know I mentioned converting the Currie into a chopper but I also have a black 26" Dimond Back outlook I will be picking up soon and there is no way the 500W Unite motor will work for it.

Basically the little 20" Blue Diamond Back with the 800W 20" hub motor is not practical as the motor is too much for a kids bike as DA would say. I do not have to build a chopper but if anyone knows of a way to mount that motor on the front of a 26" bike I would like to know. I saw that and don't know if it would do the trick or not. I don't want the ass end of the bile 6 inches higher than the front. I also DO want to be able to install front brakes also. Please let me know if anyone has any ideas. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Skalabala]

Hey bud glad you are still up and running

 

[latecurtis]

Hey bud glad you are still up and running

Same here it is good to hear from you. It has been awhile.

I am just messing around with e bikes basically making it a hobby. I got several projects going.

I was wondering how you made out with that big brush-less monster motor you were having controller issues with. I wanted to see it in action.

I know you like brush-less motors and I was checking out alien powers RC type motors a couple of weeks ago. What do you think about them ?

there are low KV motors which should work good with e bikes without complicated gear reduction. I am not mechanically inclined enough to accomplish gear reduction without help but there was a 90 KV motor which looked like it would do the trick. I will find it and post it again as I would like your opinion on it.

I have a Haro V3 which would work good for about 40 mph with one. I need to upgrade to disk brakes on the front. a summer project. Please post again. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

Maybe it is good that you keep over-gearing your front drive "rigs".
Although it is wasteful and damaging to your batteries and motors ...
It does tend to limit available torque and helps reduce spin-outs and your resulting nose dives into the pavement ... !

On tricky pavement, especially (Winter weather?), rear drive is the only reasonable alternative?

Yes, I do eBike all Winter long!

See -

 

[Sunder]

What happens if you run over someone's foot on one of those?

 

[DrkAngel]

Maybe it is good that you keep over-gearing your front drive "rigs".
Although it is wasteful and damaging to your batteries and motors ...
It does tend to limit available torque and helps reduce spin-outs and your resulting nose dives into the pavement ... !

On tricky pavement, especially (Winter weather?), rear drive is the only reasonable alternative?

Yes, I do eBike all Winter long!

See -

What happens if you run over someone's foot on one of those?

Ouch?
There was the genuine fear of picking up stuff in my tread ... cans, roadkill, shoes etc.

I never used that tire, sold it to someone deep in Pennsylvania.
He has a front hub eBike ...
PA (Pennsylvania) is noted for packed snow on rural roads, they don't use salt.

I built that tire after a frustrating bout of deep heavy "Salt Snow-Crud". Below 20ºF salt doesn't melt snow, it kinda mixes with it and slides around against the slightly warmer road surface.
My more common studded tire builds use shorter screws through about 33% of the knobbies.
See -


Studs + rubber to handle all road conditions!
High tire pressure when roads are clear (to limit stud wear) and lower pressure with heavy snow or ice (to engage as many studs as possible.)

 

[latecurtis]

I got the freewheel for the Currie wheel today and will be installing the 80T sprocket on it and hooking up the 500W motor up to it but will need a 24V controller. Gearing will not be that bad at 26 mph at 500W.

The 26" Diamondback will have at least 6 pedal gears so I will be pedaling up hills with the 20" bike which will be geared a little lower about 21 mph but still benefit from pedal assist. Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[Sunder]

The 26" Diamondback will have at least 6 pedal gears so I will be pedaling up hills with the 20" bike which will be geared a little lower about 21 mph but still benefit from pedal assist. Thanks.
LC. out.

Maybe I haven't seen your set up, but I do find fixed chain drive + variable gearing for human power a little odd. There's just no reliable safe way to do that.

Either all power is going through the main chain, and you need a front chain ring freewheel (they do exist, but you haven't managed one), or you need the motor drive on the left - how are you attaching to the hub? Through the spokes? A 2-300 watts is safe at most.

You said you want to do this because it's challenging and separates the boys from the men. I'm not seeing much to impress me so far. If you could build your own Lightning Rod or BBS01/02/HD equivalent on a budget, then I'll be impressed. You've got the parts (okay, maybe the winding/gearing is wrong), but hobbling together a bad solution isn't impressive no matter how challenging.

You know, when I first got into eBikes, that's what I wanted to do. A down tube mounted hobby style outrunner motor, using the smallest front chain ring to drive through the normal chainline. I got stumped when I realised if there was ever a problem, the pedals would be spinning with the full power of the motor, and went to look for help. I found endless sphere while trying to figure out how other people had done it, and realised that a hub kit would be safer, much more practical and reliable.

 

[DrkAngel]

Not uncommon, back in the 60s ...
Banana seat w\sissy bar, ape hanger handlebars and chopper front end.
Seated rearward allows good low profile pedaling.
Of course that leaves about 90% of weight on rear wheel, great for rear coaster brakes.
But ... probably could spin the front tire with a 200w motor!

 

[latecurtis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28UgKDFF8dU&feature=youtu.be

 

[Sunder]

Nice... Is that the concept shots for "Mad Max - Fury Road - Motorcycle edition", or from the Xbox game Dead Rising 5?

There's enough screws and sharp bits, and spinning chains, and toothed gear wheels to wipe out an army of Zombies or other post-apocalyptic humans.

Don't know what the law enforcement is like in your area, but it's illegal to drive with any external facing sharp parts on your car or motorcycle. I had a broken bumper once. Didn't think it was that big a deal, since it was 95% correctly attached, but where it was hit, but the retaining screw was poking out. Got warned about it about 3 months later. That's just one screw. Apparently pedestrians walking past the car could get hurt on it.

 

[DAND214]

Nice... Is that the concept shots for "Mad Max - Fury Road - Motorcycle edition", or from the Xbox game Dead Rising 5?

There's enough screws and sharp bits, and spinning chains, and toothed gear wheels to wipe out an army of Zombies or other post-apocalyptic humans.

Don't know what the law enforcement is like in your area, but it's illegal to drive with any external facing sharp parts on your car or motorcycle. I had a broken bumper once. Didn't think it was that big a deal, since it was 95% correctly attached, but where it was hit, but the retaining screw was poking out. Got warned about it about 3 months later. That's just one screw. Apparently pedestrians walking past the car could get hurt on it.

LC did that so nobody would steal it, knowing they might get a ticket
I saw them and thought the same thing. Long bolts sticking out all over. I sure hope LC doesn't find them the had way.

Dan

 

[latecurtis]

The bolts sticking out are for the front basket. Click on it and they will show up better. (top picture) However you do have a point. Around here though once the cops see the basket and me pedaling a little I am good. This is the hood and that is Ghetto (normal for these parts) This bike has a pedal chain hooked up.

The GT I got from Doug and is Christmas gift for my friend downtown who gave me a GT about 7 years ago and two other bikes since then. I need to fix it up a little (rear brakes and new back wheel and tru the front wheel). I paid $50 for it. It is a 2000 model and worth around $300 if it were in a little better condition.

The controller showed up today as did the mounting kit for the 56T spoke sprocket However I found the missing rubber pieces outside in the garage on the 20" rim I removed the sprocket from last summer and I had 9 bolts which worked so now I have a mounting kit for when I order a 60T spoke sprocket.

Should be rolling and doing a video soon if the roads are bare. Thanks for posting.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

80 kmh (49.7 mph) eBike

[youtube]Ul0IgBQsc94[/youtube]