New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[ScooterMan101]

Who has weighed this motor with all the parts , crankarms , bolts, etc. ?

What does it really weigh ?

What did you buy it for , and shipping costs to where you are ?

From initial specs and price, this looks like a better option than the BBS series mid drive is finally available .
I am sure many here are interested in reliability,

and Hack-ability , meaning how to wire in a throttle / cruise / etc. ( for many of us torque sensing does not work , when you have knee injuries / arthritis in the knees you can not put much torque into the pedals )
So a Throttle / Cruise for the street use is needed.

Also

It looks from one post that in order to uses a different chainring , on some bikes, that a aftermarket spider will have to be made,

Perhaps a few spiders that include the following features.

1) available to convert to chainrings that are 110 bcd
and another one made to accept 130 bcd chainrings .

2 ) both sizes above ( 110 bcd & 130 bcd ) with different chainlines ( in other words the spider dished in order to have a different chainline ) perhaps 4 or 5 to cover most bikes that will be converted .

For someone here on E.S. that has a machine shop or knows someone who does,
here is your chance to make some money , by selling such spiders to end users and to the companies that are selling / and are going to be selling this mid drive motor.

 

[thowaa]

I think it is possible to add a throttle. There are three ports on the display. Two ports are for break handles with power-off switches, and I'm quite sure I saw a diagram showing that the mid port is for a throttle, but I can't find it back. Anyway, using a throttle is illegal here.

The TSDZ2 spider is a standard 110 bcd and is suitable for two chainwheels. The problem larsottar assess is that the original chainwheel (not the spider) has a considerable offset inwards relative to the spider. This gives a large gap between the chainwheels when adding a second on the outside. He turned his second chainwheel to reduce the gap. You can also replace the original chainwheel. This will move the chain path a bit further out.

 

[ScooterMan101]

Thankfully Throttles are legal where I live. If more countries do what England did ( Brixit ) and decide/make their own future and laws based on what is best for them, then more countries will allow throttles on e-bikes, as long as the e-bike community comes together and gets active on/with the Political System of your home Country.

So then , from larsottar's experience , and anyone else who wants to use standard FSA / RaceFace / Shimano , 2 Chainrings up front gearing system , they would need for best alignment , an aftermarket custom spider to use those two chainrings.
On my bike I use both of my front Chainrings since I live in a hilly/mountainous area,
so I have a strong interest in getting such a better spider designed/made, before I would buy this mid-drive.

I think it is possible to add a throttle. There are three ports on the display. Two ports are for break handles with power-off switches, and I'm quite sure I saw a diagram showing that the mid port is for a throttle, but I can't find it back. Anyway, using a throttle is illegal here.

The TSDZ2 spider is a standard 110 bcd and is suitable for two chainwheels. The problem larsottar assess is that the original chainwheel (not the spider) has a considerable offset inwards relative to the spider. This gives a large gap between the chainwheels when adding a second on the outside. He turned his second chainwheel to reduce the gap. You can also replace the original chainwheel. This will move the chain path a bit further out.

 

[thowaa]

So then , from larsottar's experience , and anyone else who wants to use standard FSA / RaceFace / Shimano , 2 Chainrings up front gearing system , they would need for best alignment , an aftermarket custom spider to use those two chainrings.
On my bike I use both of my front Chainrings since I live in a hilly/mountainous area,
so I have a strong interest in getting such a better spider designed/made, before I would buy this mid-drive.

Sorry, but I don't understand you. The original spider should work well with two chainrings. Can't see how a custom spider will help you. You can use two standard 110 bcd chainrings. Though, maybe not too small inner chainring as the chain will probably interfere with the motor housing.

Here is a video of a trike using the TSDZ2 with two chainrings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSNe89D_cC4

 

[PhaenTa]

So.. My kit came back from repair and it was the
brushless motor iself that had to be replaced.

I recall that a few days prior to this fault happening I was climbing a steep hill in a few gears past the lowest one.
So my conclusion is to use the lowest gear when there is going to be a lot of load on the motor to be on the safe side.

Also, increasing the A setting to 25 seems to provide a good boost on my motor. Even though the battery I use is rated at 8Ah I suppose the motor is using the burst of it.

And in addition it is much quieter now. Perhaps an improved version was installed?

 

[keithmac]

What are they like to ride?, how good is the torque sensing?.

 

[PhaenTa]

What are they like to ride?, how good is the torque sensing?.

I think that several reviews in this very thread describe that quite well. Check them out. But in general, the motor feels powerful but you have to provide force, especially uphill. It will not propel you by itself even in turbo mode. Torque sensing is good. Starts as soon as you pedal and stops when you stop. Power distribution is smooth.

 

[thowaa]

Also, increasing the A setting to 25 seems to provide a good boost on my motor. Even though the battery I use is rated at 8Ah I suppose the motor is using the burst of it.

I guess the A setting, which is called 'Power adjustment' in the user manual, is the peak current limit the motor will draw from the battery. You should be sure that your battery can deliver it before you fiddle with the setting. Batteries for RC cars etc. are usually marked with a C rating which tells you the peak current limit of the battery, but it doesn't seem that ebike batteries come with such info. (?) If your 8 Ah battery is a 2C, you should not use a setting above 16 A. At best your battery will be drained fast and get a shorter life, at worst your battery can be overheated and damaged.

As the software setting range is 0-32 A I guess we can assume that the motor controller can handle 32 A, but that might not be the case either. :?

If my guess about the A setting is correct, it means you can adjust the peak effect of your motor.
Default is 36V * 16A = 576W.
Max is 36V * 32A = 1152W.
But, you have to make sure that your battery can deliver the current.

 

[PhaenTa]

I am aware of that. Have been doing RC for 25 years.
But others may benefit from this info. So a good write up.

My battery is rated at 4C btw so it should be ok.

 

[PhaenTa]

Also, at 36V the battery is depleted so you should calculate at 42V x 16 etc. I highly doubt that this tiny motor could deliver anything near 1344W at the 32A setting though. It would certainly be advertised as more than 250W / 350W in that case So it's probably just a universal menu.

 

[thowaa]

It would certainly be advertised as more than 250W / 350W in that case

No, the advertised effect is the nominal effect, not the peak. Confusing thing caused by the laws. :?

Btw: I wonder if the Japan vs Europe Mode setting has anything to do with the 350W vs 250W version of this motor? What are the ebike rules in Japan? Anyone who has the 350W version and can post the default settings? Or is it different hw in the two motor versions?

 

[PhaenTa]

No, the advertised effect is the nominal effect, not the peak. Confusing thing caused by the laws. :?

Yes, of course. I forgot to add that. But you know the marketing guys. They often operate at max levels for good numbers on paper. I think that if this motor delivered 1300W Max, or even 1000W that would be a part of its marketing.

Just my opinion of course.

I have no good means of measuring its current draw atm (my multimeter only has a claw, no serial Amp measurement) and I don't know anyone with a 32A 36V battery either. But that would be better than guessing

Have no idea about the eur setting but it doesn't seem to affect anything on my bike.

 

[keithmac]

Do you think you could get 30mph with enough battery on a road bike with this setup?.

 

[puregsr]

Saw this motor awhile back and surprised that in-depth discussion hasn't picked up in this forum.

What is the chainline measured from middle of the seat tube to the middle of the chainring?
What's the consensus on the reliability? How does it compare to the Bosch system?
Can it handle 13S or 14S?

I want to try it out especially if the torque sensing is close to the Bosch system, but it's not exactly "cheap" as an impulse buy.

 

[thowaa]

Btw: I wonder if the Japan vs Europe Mode setting has anything to do with the 350W vs 250W version of this motor? What are the ebike rules in Japan? Anyone who has the 350W version and can post the default settings? Or is it different hw in the two motor versions?

I have got different answers from two different dealers. One says the JAP/EUR setting will change the charset. The other says I shouldn't care about it, as it is for another model. Anyway, the conclusion is that this setting will probably not affect the motor performance. :lol:

 

[leangains]

What is the price of this motor, ive seen anywhere from $280-350. At that price, you might as well get a bbs02.... if It can handle 14s it would be more ideal, and run less amps. I have emailed the factory and will post their response.

1. Anybody run it against a bbs02?
2. Would it be ideal for someone who has a bad knee, does the motor reduce force pedaling dramatically? As in keeping heart rate low with just minor force?

This thing on a recumbent bike would be perfect. Get the speeds on the flats,downhills of a fast ebike, and the help on uphills....

 

[keithmac]

It's torque sensing so depending on how hard you push the pedals it adds appropriate assist.

 

[leangains]

for 48v I was redirected to the TSDZ3 motor,

http://www.tsbicycle.net/products_detail/&productId=138.html

worth checking out... however looks less concealed as the z2

 

[induna]

That sure looks like it has to be installed into a purpose built frame, and can not be used to retrofit an existing bicycle.

 

[thowaa]

I have tried the A setting at 5 A and 25 A and I feel no difference.
I need to get an ampere-meter to do measurements...

 

[Squirrelpie0]

LARS
You've had this in a couple of months, how's it performing? Any new insights compared to Bafang?

 

[thowaa]

How does it compare to the Bosch system? ...
I want to try it out especially if the torque sensing is close to the Bosch system, ...

I have tried several ebikes including some with Bosch motor, but only for very short test runs.
When it comes to torque sensing, I think the Bosch and TSDZ2 are quite similar.
I think the TSDZ2 feels a bit smoother.
Perhaps is Bosch slightly more sensitive which also makes it more "nervous" in Turbo mode.
Though, I prefer running both motors in Speed mode, ie second highest assist level.
I only turn to Turbo mode when going up very steep hills.

EDIT: I have now tried the newer Bosch CX which is in another league.
Much more power and much smoother, but it is whining like hell and
it is really unpleasant to ride with the motor off.

 

[thowaa]

What is the price of this motor, ive seen anywhere from $280-350.

That is the common China-prices. The prices in Europe are higher. Some examples...
elektrofahrrad-einfach.de
conrad.de
ebike-sales.co.uk

Would it be ideal for someone who has a bad knee, does the motor reduce force pedaling dramatically? As in keeping heart rate low with just minor force?

For people with health issues and/or special requirements there is only one good advice... Seek local dealers and try different bikes.

This thing on a recumbent bike would be perfect.

Did you see the video posted further up ?

 

[keithmac]

I bought mine from ebike-sales.co.uk, ordered Friday and arrived Tuesday.

UK backup if anything goes wrong which is more than worth any minor saving from sourcing on myself from China.

The 350w TSDZ2 and 36v 15ah battery came to £660. Both look excellent quality!.

 

[PhaenTa]

That is about twice the price I paid for mine incl battery from China. But it's not bad considering the warranty and piece of mind. Delivery time for me was within a week with DHL.

However, I would personally NEVER have purchased this for over 1000€ (conrad.de). I can get a decent e-bike for that. Or.. buy 2 new motors if mine fails and have lots of spares. IMHO some sellers in europe are really greedy.