New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[Manbeer]

finally drank the kool aid and ordered one of these, i was waiting forever for things for other projects and have intended to try one. i realized after that i got the one with a vlcd5 and 6 pin, hopefully that wasn't a mistake

 

[jbalat]

...i got the one with a vlcd5 and 6 pin, hopefully that wasn't a mistake

its only if you want to add a temperature sensor that the wiring can get a bit tricky but can be done. Let us know how you go. Make sure it is all working properly and then you can think of upgrading to the opensource firmware for a nice performance boost.

 

[beemac]

Just in case it helps anyone else - I bought a 104BCD spider for the TSDZ2 - and like most it came without a centre rubber seal. I didn't really want to rip off the old seal from the stock spider (and in any case it wasn't quite the right size).

I found that 40mm OD, 14mm ID EPDM rubber washers fit perfectly.

I bought two to try and they fit a treat:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2MM-THIC...ASHER-SEAL-GASKETS-12MM-80MM-OD-/372570681544







I'll glue around the outer diameter - and grease the inner - hopefully all will be well!

 

[dameri]

Thanks for sharing

 

[LeftCoastNurd]

what is the chain like using that adapter, vs the stock 42T ?

 

[beemac]

what is the chain like using that adapter, vs the stock 42T ?

Not sure yet - trying to find a decent alloy fsr frame to build up with this my spare motor. Am hoping it will be ok with the chainring on the inside to improve chainline but might rub on the case in lower gears I think. Will be matched with m5100 cassette 11-51T - so should go up the hills ok

 

[Waynemarlow]

You can use the later style adaptors which have a proper seal rather than a rubber washer. We think it’s at this point that we get the majority of the problems with water ingress along the crank and into the motor as the crank flex’s quite a bit as the bearing is set quite a way into the motor.

We now fit a fully sealed bearing into the chain ring carrier where the seal sits. It has two purposes, to strengthen the crank up as it transfers loading on the crank to the large sprag bearing without the long leverage that normally is there and accounts for some of the breakages some report of the crank. Also by fitting a sealed bearing we stop a lot of the water getting through at that point. Works well.

You can buy 5 hole 110 bcd narrow wide chain rings down to 34T on EBay and thus don’t need the adaptor or if you have 104 chain rings about then the adaptors are as cheap as a chain ring. As to chain line, the offset moves out about 8mm but we have had no problems with the greater offset, it’s surprising how much a modern derailleur can push chains across.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

What is the bearing number that you are using?
THANKS

 

[LeftCoastNurd]

what is the chain line using that adapter, vs the stock 42T ?

Not sure yet - trying to find a decent alloy fsr frame to build up with this my spare motor. Am hoping it will be ok with the chainring on the inside to improve chainline but might rub on the case in lower gears I think. Will be matched with m5100 cassette 11-51T - so should go up the hills ok

FSR mountain bikes are challenging, the suspension pivots are usually in the way of the TSDZ2's torque anchor, and the BBs are often way oversize compared with the classic 68mm.

 

[beemac]

what is the chain line using that adapter, vs the stock 42T ?

Not sure yet - trying to find a decent alloy fsr frame to build up with this my spare motor. Am hoping it will be ok with the chainring on the inside to improve chainline but might rub on the case in lower gears I think. Will be matched with m5100 cassette 11-51T - so should go up the hills ok

FSR mountain bikes are challenging, the suspension pivots are usually in the way of the TSDZ2's torque anchor, and the BBs are often way oversize compared with the classic 68mm.

Yea I'm steering clear of anything carbon or post-2012 - sticking to things with 68 or 73mm BSA threaded BBs. I'm ok with making a bracket to connect to one of the pivot points - seems to be the way it's done generally.

 

[beemac]

You can use the later style adaptors which have a proper seal rather than a rubber washer. We think it’s at this point that we get the majority of the problems with water ingress along the crank and into the motor as the crank flex’s quite a bit as the bearing is set quite a way into the motor.

We now fit a fully sealed bearing into the chain ring carrier where the seal sits. It has two purposes, to strengthen the crank up as it transfers loading on the crank to the large sprag bearing without the long leverage that normally is there and accounts for some of the breakages some report of the crank. Also by fitting a sealed bearing we stop a lot of the water getting through at that point. Works well.

You can buy 5 hole 110 bcd narrow wide chain rings down to 34T on EBay and thus don’t need the adaptor or if you have 104 chain rings about then the adaptors are as cheap as a chain ring. As to chain line, the offset moves out about 8mm but we have had no problems with the greater offset, it’s surprising how much a modern derailleur can push chains across.

I've got a range of offset chainrings - but is nice to be able to use some of the rings I have lying around hence the 104 spider...

On the seals for the bearing behind the spider - I thought you'd said in previous posts not to worry about seals there and use grease instead? Maybe I'm misremembering....

 

[beemac]

what is the chain line using that adapter, vs the stock 42T ?

Not sure yet - trying to find a decent alloy fsr frame to build up with this my spare motor. Am hoping it will be ok with the chainring on the inside to improve chainline but might rub on the case in lower gears I think. Will be matched with m5100 cassette 11-51T - so should go up the hills ok

FSR mountain bikes are challenging, the suspension pivots are usually in the way of the TSDZ2's torque anchor, and the BBs are often way oversize compared with the classic 68mm.

Yea I'm steering clear of anything carbon or post-2012 - sticking to things with 68 or 73mm BSA threaded BBs. I'm ok with making a bracket to connect to one of the pivot points - seems to be the way it's done generally.

Although I do have a 2007 carbon fibre stumpjumper fsr s-works frame spare. The bb is too fat as you'd expect - but I have been looking at it wondering if I can machine anything off the bb without the frame falling apart as it's only 2mm or so too fat on the bottom. It's all aluminium and threaded for a standard bsa bb - but I can't work out how it's bonded to the rest of the frame. It looks to just have a thin layer of plastic around the bottom where I need to machine that doesn't look to be structural - but I really can't tell...

Anyone ever seen how these things are bonded?

 

[Manbeer]

The stock chainline makes me want to puke as a bike mechanic. for now I think I am going to take a 10 speed cassette and remove the two largest gears until I can figure out something better

 

[beemac]

The stock chainline makes me want to puke as a bike mechanic. for now I think I am going to take a 10 speed cassette and remove the two largest gears until I can figure out something better

On my main bike (converted rockhopper '05 hardtail) I use two 'solid e-bike' 10mm offset chainrings; 50t/42t - 42t inside the spider, 50t outside. This allows me to shift with a standard front mech and I even had to file a tiny bit off the chainstay to stop the larger chainring rubbing on it so the line can't be much better really for chainring size...

https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/42t-chain-ring-for-tsdz2-narrow-wide-10mm-offset-110-bcd-solid-e-bike

https://www.eco-ebike.com/products/50t-narrow-wide-solid-e-bike-chain-ring

Obviously not cheap - esp with duty/shipping from US to UK. There is a company in Italy that makes similar ones in red too.

 

[Manbeer]

Cool, I'm familiar with the Italian one in 30 tooth but I didn't know there were larger ones . I suppose they are a bit expensive, but a normal race face or absolute black narrow wide is like 50 bucks anyway So for a little bit more the cost of admission isn't too steep. I was considering the 30 tooth as well and was worried I would lose too much top end. In the greater scheme of things, maybe if I were to get a 36 V motor and run the 30 T At 48 V that would work too
For now I threw on an old 46t Ring on the outside rather than the stock chain guard Since I wasn't in love with the look of it and also I feel like this makes it look a bit more like a regular to prying eyes

 

[Waynemarlow]

Although I do have a 2007 carbon fibre stumpjumper fsr s-works frame spare. The bb is too fat as you'd expect - but I have been looking at it wondering if I can machine anything off the bb without the frame falling apart as it's only 2mm or so too fat on the bottom. It's all aluminium and threaded for a standard bsa bb - but I can't work out how it's bonded to the rest of the frame. It looks to just have a thin layer of plastic around the bottom where I need to machine that doesn't look to be structural - but I really can't tell...

Anyone ever seen how these things are bonded?

Been there and done it, and don't bother, the carbon is bonded in as part of the mould and that 2mm fatness is actually hollow.
And when that repair is done, please just dont overlay carbon, there's a whole process of bevelling and getting the epoxy glue layer at an angle to the fibre to retain the strength of the carbon ( I used to repair carbon back in my younger days )

 

[Waynemarlow]

On the seals for the bearing behind the spider - I thought you'd said in previous posts not to worry about seals there and use grease instead? Maybe I'm misremembering....

No, the main sprag bearing has an indented O ring to seal the spider to sprag bearing. We have been simply putting that original O ring around the outer bearing or a bead of instant gasket or simply waterproof grease if you buy the much cheaper bearing without the indent for the O ring.

To remove doubt on the Spider bearing, its a 6902RS. I think you could get a 10mm wide bearing there rather than the more normal 7mm wide, we had a few here of the 7mm as they often fit suspension frames I have had. We put bearing lock on the outer surface to stop the bearing moving through the spider and fill the void between the bearing and base of the crank with waterproof grease.

This photo shows the bearing before pushing it into the spider

 

[beemac]

Although I do have a 2007 carbon fibre stumpjumper fsr s-works frame spare. The bb is too fat as you'd expect - but I have been looking at it wondering if I can machine anything off the bb without the frame falling apart as it's only 2mm or so too fat on the bottom. It's all aluminium and threaded for a standard bsa bb - but I can't work out how it's bonded to the rest of the frame. It looks to just have a thin layer of plastic around the bottom where I need to machine that doesn't look to be structural - but I really can't tell...

Anyone ever seen how these things are bonded?

Been there and done it, and don't bother, the carbon is bonded in as part of the mould and that 2mm fatness is actually hollow.
And when that repair is done, please just dont overlay carbon, there's a whole process of bevelling and getting the epoxy glue layer at an angle to the fibre to retain the strength of the carbon ( I used to repair carbon back in my younger days )

Ahhh thankyou - saved me a lot of work and subsequent heartache

I will continue my search for an old stumpjumper m5 frame ideally with the nice straight downtube so I can shift the motor forward a bit...

 

[beemac]

Cool, I'm familiar with the Italian one in 30 tooth but I didn't know there were larger ones . I suppose they are a bit expensive, but a normal race face or absolute black narrow wide is like 50 bucks anyway So for a little bit more the cost of admission isn't too steep. I was considering the 30 tooth as well and was worried I would lose too much top end. In the greater scheme of things, maybe if I were to get a 36 V motor and run the 30 T At 48 V that would work tooCE5B43A1-A459-4410-AD52-38F428AE27BC.jpeg
For now I threw on an old 46t Ring on the outside rather than the stock chain guard Since I wasn't in love with the look of it and also I feel like this makes it look a bit more like a regular to prying eyes

Not got any experience running 36v motors both of mine are 48v - but I do have two DC boosters on order from banggood to try out - 1200w/1500w - wasn't something I'd considered but was mentioned by someone on the wireless thread -so I can choose whatever voltage I want and keep that voltage constant even when battery voltage drops assuming they can push the required current obv. Really looking forward to trying them out - a constant 58v would be amazing...

Bit grubby - but you can see the chainrings. Aside of the 'solid e-bike' decals the 50t hides the motor nicely!

 

[beemac]

On the seals for the bearing behind the spider - I thought you'd said in previous posts not to worry about seals there and use grease instead? Maybe I'm misremembering....

No, the main sprag bearing has an indented O ring to seal the spider to sprag bearing. We have been simply putting that original O ring around the outer bearing or a bead of instant gasket or simply waterproof grease if you buy the much cheaper bearing without the indent for the O ring.

To remove doubt on the Spider bearing, its a 6902RS. I think you could get a 10mm wide bearing there rather than the more normal 7mm wide, we had a few here of the 7mm as they often fit suspension frames I have had. We put bearing lock on the outer surface to stop the bearing moving through the spider and fill the void between the bearing and base of the crank with waterproof grease.

This photo shows the bearing before pushing it into the spider

Nice thanks yea that looks a bit more solid than a rubber washer

 

[Doohickey]

The stock chainline makes me want to puke as a bike mechanic. for now I think I am going to take a 10 speed cassette and remove the two largest gears until I can figure out something better

I took my cassette apart and rearranged the cogs, putting two medium sized ones at the end and bringing two largest ones outwards - that gives me the full range, with bigger steps though, which was fine for me.

I had to drill out the rivets holding it together (no issues it seems), and the derailleur handles it okay too.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I will continue my search for an old stumpjumper m5 frame ideally with the nice straight downtube so I can shift the motor forward a bit...

Actually rotating the motor foward doesn't give any gains, the motor is an eliptical shape, as you rotate it foward the motor profile becomes broader. We have just accepted that its best directly below the BB. Anyway the Chain ring is nearly always bigger than the motor profile and will hit before the motor. You can see the problem here on this straight tube where I thought it would rotate further.

 

[famichiki]

Has anyone experienced a high-pitched buzzing coming from the VLCD5 when under power? It stops when I stop pedalling.

 

[casainho]

I just finished my TSDZ2 wireless remote with connection to brake sensors -- I am very proud of final result

Here my TSDZ2 wireless remote, with a short cable (to connect to the brake sensors) with yellow Higo connector that is water prof:

And now installed on my EBike:

So the idea is to reuse the VLCD5 remote that is not needed anymore after installing our OpenSource firmware. The case was 3D printed with black PLA plastic and I used transparent silicone to make the wireless remote fully water prof. There is one CRC2032 battery that will work for at least 2 years and a small wireless board.

Board in place with battery under it (green wires). I blocked the brake wire with a small zip tie, so it will be hard to pull it to much up to damage:


All wires soldered - the green board is the original from VLCD5 remote:


Just enough space for the wires:




Done!! Added a bit of transparent silicone on the LED hole to make it water prof:

 

[Manbeer]

That is awesome! Glad I have an extra remote kicking around too. Just getting around to trying at the motor in stock form and will soon be upgrading. so far aside from the stock chain ring and a few other little things I really like it. It's no beast, but it's a punchy little motor with a very natural feel