Project build thread. Diamond back overdrive EV

[torker]

Yea it is great fun. I hung my bikes up a while ago. My son and his buddies would get ahold of them and crash or run my lipos in the ground. Basically puffed all my batts. My fault I should have had everything on a ign. switch. Was already too late when I said leave em alone. Son finally lives on his own. Finally got my garage back. Time to regroup.. 8)

 

[rborger73]

I know since I got interested in this I've been watching battery tech... great things coming.

 

[rborger73]

So almost scared to ask for opinions anymore... but... lol What bms options do I have here. If I leave it in 48v. I have 12s 4p. I either want to have one plug to charge the bike, or bms ain't worth it. Any options other than a bms? Runs to find a good 48v 12s bms...

 

[deffx]

So almost scared to ask for opinions anymore... but... lol What bms options do I have here. If I leave it in 48v. I have 4 packs of of 4s in groups of 3. I either want to have one plug to charge the bike, or bms ain't worth it. Any options other than a bms? Runs to find a good 48v 12s bms...

http://www.bestechpower.com/pcmbmspcbforli-ionli-polymerbatterypacks/

I've been considering these as they have been mentioned and used as of late. There are others. Bmsbattery has one, but none are strictly lico or have the cut offs were we prefer for good battery usage I.e. Charge to 4.1 and cut out at 3.4?
Be nice if a programmable version was available

 

[wesnewell]

With a 12s pack, it's easy to make a 1 plug solution using a 12s charger. Use a DB25 connector with all power and balance leads connected to it and then wire the other side to the 12s charger so all you have to do is turn the charger on, connect the DB25 and then start charging.

 

[rborger73]

So almost scared to ask for opinions anymore... but... lol What bms options do I have here. If I leave it in 48v. I have 4 packs of of 4s in groups of 3. I either want to have one plug to charge the bike, or bms ain't worth it. Any options other than a bms? Runs to find a good 48v 12s bms...

http://www.bestechpower.com/pcmbmspcbforli-ionli-polymerbatterypacks/

I've been considering these as they have been mentioned and used as of late. There are others. Bmsbattery has one, but none are strictly lico or have the cut offs were we prefer for good battery usage I.e. Charge to 4.1 and cut out at 3.4?
Be nice if a programmable version was available

Seems so hard to wade through some of these sites where prices are hard to figure and near to no descriptions hehe. I like some of what I see there but no pricing at all. Still hunting.

 

[rborger73]

With a 12s pack, it's easy to make a 1 plug solution using a 12s charger. Use a DB25 connector with all power and balance leads connected to it and then wire the other side to the 12s charger so all you have to do is turn the charger on, connect the DB25 and then start charging.

Ya looks like that is what I'll be needing to do. Have to see if there are some weather proof or versions that can be capped off. Thanks for the lead. Researching what all I'll need. If anyone has a quick list of sources they used to find all the pieces needed to do that lmk. Would put good use to the new soldering station ordered and on the way. None of the irons we have here are cutting the muster and my last one died a bit back and haven't replaced it. See how this one does.

 

[wesnewell]

DB25 M/F cable is common computer cables. I've got several laying around from years past. Ebay. Cut it in two and wire it up.

 

[rborger73]

DB25 M/F cable is common computer cables. I've got several laying around from years past. Ebay. Cut it in two and wire it up.

Ya I'm very sure I do have more than one cable and probably more than one printer with that port laying about. Hopefully they weren't all trashed recently. lol Didn't even think about it. Now is there a guide on the balance lead configuration floating about somewhere? Off to bed will research more tomorrow. Ordered bunch of odds and ins before bed. 60 to 32v to 12v convertor as well as a 8 to 22 v down to 5.5 for USB convertor as well. Ordered the led flashlights going to try out first as headlights. Needing to rig a switch to turn on both flashlights at once. Shouldn't be too tricky I don't think.

Goal here is a very clean dash. Simple buttons and it will lock with the tablet on the handlebars as well. I'm hoping the Speedict app gains a bit of function soon. One simple and lovely fix would be have an orientation lock and horizontal mode on every screen. There is one screen that will give me most of the info and is horizontal but font size control and a little more tech looking speedo screen would be nice. There may be those things and I haven't found them or there is add ons I don't know about.. ttfn..

 

[rborger73]

For ease of charging am I crazy for thinking of having a charge port on the bike for each balance lead. Is there a way to charge (and I can figure this out probably but would love to see if I'm off base) 12s 4p without unplugging the pack. I honestly haven't set down to think about if it is possible or impossible.

I'm thinking of running extensions from the 4s balance ports of each brick and however I have to put the charge leads in to charge. Basically I'm trying to find a way to not remove the covers for every charge. I have those hardpacks so I would guess in order for one to show puffing it would be pretty extreme.

Want this really streamlined when I'm finished. Still would love to hear from someone that has the Spedict using android. I'm really hoping there is a way to force every screen to stay in horizontal mode. If not now sometime soon. It left Hong Kong day or so ago.

Motor and a rear carrier and some permanent presta to schrader valves and few odds and ends be here Monday. Hoping the rear carrier is able to be fitted. I'm guessing I'll end up drilling some extra holes in the torque arms and threading them. Have powder coating setup here may as well use. So torque arms will be done in matte black powder coat to match the frame.

I ordered the Golden Motor arms so I had at least something to re engineer. Hoping I can come up with something custom that doesn't need hose clamps, or I'll at least come up with something more pretty. I like Doc's thick solid steel ones and I'll probably do something similar. I may play with the length. Nothing crazy power wise yet but I know how I am so very likely it will have more than what I'm starting with torque wise soon. Trying to stop doing research and get back to the garage but it is rather cold today.. so it may be a music day. lol I'll finish the side and get it attached so I can mount the motor Monday night. Should be within a few lbs of its final weight by then since everything heavy will be here, and I can strap everything on for a non powered test drive.

I did get the tires aired up and took it for a spin around the driveway with the batteries and one side onboard. I couldn't even feel the battery weight honestly. I'm so used to my Wally world huffy with 20lbs of sla on a rear carrier this feels like I'm riding on paper. lol Think the motor is another 16lbs. So I should be under 65lbs with the bike at 48v and 20 Ah. I'm about 150lbs give or take 5lbs depending on the season. 215lbs down the road should be fairly efficient I hope. I'm going to wait till I get this all finished as is but I highly suspect at least another 20 Ah is in the bikes future.

Either I will do it on the rear carrier, or I may end up switching to 18650 setup in the triangle as I think that would better utilize the space. Am I wrong to think if I put together a 18650 battery that I could get quite a bit more Ah in there? I would like to have a 100 mile range on this eventually. 40 Ah mounted and the rest would be optional on rear carrier and front pelican or backpack for long trips. Even if I know I'm running 30 miles or more of errands it sure would be nice to have 20 Ah in reserve or more to add on for peace of mind to get home.

Just kind of journaling to read back over, but opinions and suggestions welcome. I have a pretty specific vision for the finished project so again a suggestion might be sound and I'll read over it, but I may have lil different idea. All of it helps. I'll be glad to share my knowledge I get on building this back with others for sure.

 

[wesnewell]

For ease of charging am I crazy for thinking of having a charge port on the bike for each balance lead. Is there a way to charge (and I can figure this out probably but would love to see if I'm off base) 12s 4p without unplugging the pack. I honestly haven't set down to think about if it is possible or impossible.

Sure. It's easy. Get a DB25 cable and mount one side in your battery case and wire up the balance and power leads to it. Do the same with the one connector to your charger. Ride your bike in, turn on charger, plug it in, start charging. Or wire a bms to the pack and then use any 2 prong connector to connect to it.

 

[rborger73]

For ease of charging am I crazy for thinking of having a charge port on the bike for each balance lead. Is there a way to charge (and I can figure this out probably but would love to see if I'm off base) 12s 4p without unplugging the pack. I honestly haven't set down to think about if it is possible or impossible.

Sure. It's easy. Get a DB25 cable and mount one side in your battery case and wire up the balance and power leads to it. Do the same with the one connector to your charger. Ride your bike in, turn on charger, plug it in, start charging. Or wire a bms to the pack and then use any 2 prong connector to connect to it.

I guess I'm still trying to figure out how the db25 will cover every balance lead. I'm ordering 20 balance lead extension cables for now till I decide final way to go. Will be a bit till it is warm enough to ride much, so I know the charging will be very limited for awhile. Just have to make sure I leave room where I need to is all. I'm halfway between the various methods of charging and have to decide on a final method for now. I guess for now I can make a small access panel on the rear side of the panel that is removable and keep all the balance leads numbered and down there, Well.. I'll figure it all out eventually.

Motor was out of stock with a 700cc rim so I had them ship a 26". I didn't really need a rim as the plan is to have it laced into the stock rim so everything matches. As per tracking I should see it Monday. However since my bullet connectors I ordered won't be here I won't be doing a first test fire quite yet.

Got the right side clamshell about 90% done. Have to do some trimming so the clamshell fits about the sprocket without interfering with it or the derailer.

What is the largest front sprocket I can go with? 52t I've heard people say was available. I may remove the front derailer as I know with my old bike I never took it off the largest sprocket in the front when I rode. I may be able to switch the shift cables so the rear gears are on the left side then just remove the gear shift from the right side so I have more room for the thumb throttle to fit. I may end up with a half throttle too. Will play around with the thumb throttle and see if I like it or hate it. Wish I had ordered all my connectors and wire for the battery wiring earlier. lol Oops... Didn't think about the darn bullet connectors being something I couldn't get local. lol

 

[wesnewell]

I guess I'm still trying to figure out how the db25 will cover every balance lead.

I don't remember what size packs you're using to build you 12s4p pack, but assuming it's 4s packs, buy 3 6x 4s parallel balance cables. Parallel your 3 sets of 4s packs using these cables. That'll leave you with 2 open for each one in case you want to go to 6p. Now you will have just 3 4s plugs and 15 wires, of which the inside packs first and last balance wire connects with the first and last balance wire from the other 2 4s packs, leaving you with a total of only 13 pins needed. You would want to do this before plugging any of the 4s packs into the new cable so you don't short out a cell doing it. Do I need to draw you a picture?

 

[wesnewell]

Here's some examples from a few years ago using 24pin molex connectors like MB psu connectors.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23362&hilit=14s+db25&start=75#p374820

 

[rborger73]

I'm thinking of running extensions for each brick down to an access panel where each end of the extension lead will be hot glued in place. That way I can check balance levels on each brick. Or plug in extensions from the access panel to a parallel board. Does that make sense? I'm just trying to get it where I have to remove the panel as little as I have to but still be able to check the health of it and have a few charging options. I also wouldn't be having to break any packs balance leads internally. Since I would still have the access panel to plugin to. I guess I'd still have to break the power leads from each pack to individual charge.

There doesn't seem like a way I could individually balance charge each brick without breaking the power leads though. I'd love to only have to remove the sides when doing a pack visual examination. Which I'm curious if these hardpacks give you any indication when a pack is puffed does it still swell?

And I'm using the 4s 5000mah turnigy hard packs. In a 12s 4p I think. four packs of 3 bricks. Takes a while to get the terminology figured out hehe.

 

[rborger73]

I like the DB25 idea as well. And suppose I could even do both if I wanted to really have more options available, but maybe that is overkill. I could have the db25 setup for quick plug fast charge, but also have each individual balance leads on an access panel. I know how I am with wanting to check each battery. I do online marketing and webmastering for my actual living and I'm what we call a stats junky. Like to look at all the numbers coming in to each site and stats on that, affiliate stats as well.

So I'm pretty sure I'll be plugging in often to check balance numbers. lol Quick and dirty for now I'll just cut an access hole and have the 12 balance leads there with extension leads and number each one. Later I'll use a glue gun to perm mount them with a little removable access cover.

 

[Gregory]

Tench had a very tidy implementation of an external connector for balance leads.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489#p545418

And I think Aussiejester did something similar too.

 

[rborger73]

Tench had a very tidy implementation of an external connector for balance leads.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37489#p545418

And I think Aussiejester did something similar too.

Got some great ideas from that. Thanks mucho.


Took it for a freewheel, rear disc, and chain free ride in the 3 degree weather in the driveway today. Just have the 26" rim it came with mounted to get everything functioning correctly. I've decided to remove the front derailleur completely. I'm going to switch the front large sprocket to the largest I can sensibly fit. I don't think I changed front gears all summer with my other bike.

Got just about everything now. Have another shipment tomorrow and maybe thurs and that should be the most of it. The LBS doesn't lace rims.. (lame right?). Called a local guy named the "Bike doctor"... and he said it was beyond his capability.. Okies.. Found a shop about 20 mins away that can do it.

I need to research the spoke length issue as I don't think they keep many spokes in stock. I may end up doing the lacing myself and taking it up just to get it trued and to double check my work. Seems to me the toughest part of the actual assembly is making sure all the spokes are the right size. Half tempted to just order a truing stand. Planned on waiting till I got moved to buy one so it would be one less thing to haul with me.


Got all the harness wiring figured out. So very simple and I could of saved some money on wire. Have to make a some custom pieces to mount the rear rack the way I want. It came in and I was quite glad to see the flat black on it is pretty close to the bike. Good deal.

Spedict came today. I've got it ready to mount.. Waiting on the 4mm connectors so I can wire everything up. Spedict came with no instructions of course so I'll have to track down that info. Waiting on the vinyl. I decided to use vinyl paint to put the logos on the clamshells on the vinyl instead of embroidered. I still may go that way though.. My only hangup would be finding thread that won't stain or mark up. The paint may not hold up either. Will take a lil experimentation. Anyways really happy with everything so far.

Trying to find an alternative to the 39.00 usb cable with 23.00 shipping for the data porn on the mp3. If it is a functional working thing it should probably come with the cable included. That is probably the only thing I'm disappointed with as far as Golden motors goes. My goal is to be 95% finished by next week, but the final charging and balance plugs I'm not going to rush on. I won't be needed to ride it everyday for a bit here so gives me a little time to decide on the best solution for that. Love the FSR mid drive solution.

See how it comes out but I may build a couple of these. I'd just build 4 or 6 of the clamshells and all the pieces I need to build the same bike and order a couple of them to throw together and take them with me to CO. Already had one person wanting one. See where my budget and time comes in at.

 

[rborger73]

I must say... Speedict pdfs are lovely. So now I understand the not sending instructions. May hook it up quick to test it out in a bit and pair the bluetooth. Wondering if I'll be able to fit the 8 speed in or need to drop to a 6 or 7 speed. Don't have the removal tool I need. I was figuring I'd have the LBS swap that out, but now wishing I'd ordered the removal tool.

Does anyone have any thoughts on max size front sprocket that would work? 52t probably? I really want as high of a gear as I can go. I really only need 3 gears max. Super high, just whatever and "oh crap that is a hill". Think mine last summer just stayed always in the highest gear. Only need the 3 for the emergency pedal home. Excited about getting the speedict up and running. I'm hoping some further development of the app adding horizontal display and ability to control font size for each screen. Should have some new pics up tomorrow. No big visual changes other than more tweaking of the clamshells and removal of the front derailleur and putting some of the components on. Happy with the build so far. It is going largely to plan. Getting to the parts I love which is the detail stuff and finishing work. Then of course soon as the 10 degree or lower weather breaks I'll suit up in warm winter clothes and zip around a 3 mile loop near my house to see what kind of distance I can get with it now. I'm hopeful for better than 30 mile range with a bit of a breaking in. Probably way longer. Don't want to over guess it.

 

[rborger73]

Speedict is more customizable than I thought. Reading the pdf manual for the Android app. Had some different ways of changing not via the menu. Will be happier than I thought at first.

 

[rborger73]

You guys are getting in my head with the Kentucky fried fingers crap.... Just nodded off and dreamed I was wiring up the harness and had a big popping spark which startled me awake..... thanks guys.... lol :lol:

 

[rborger73]

Some pic updates. All just test fitting. Hence the tape holding the shell and vinyl in place. Got a bad component for the 48v to 12v converter which blew out my 12v to usb converter as well... lol Well no big loss 25.00 worth. New ones underway. It's actually rideable now as is. Speedict is hooked up and is brilliant. Have to design a way to get the tablet lined up how I want. I'm thinking of making a slide in holder with a way to lock the tablet into it. Have some button placement to do yet. The throttle has the light switch on it. I'm either going to swap that out and put the cruise button in there, or wire that to my headlights and tail and park lights. Lot more work to do, but getting there slowly but surely.

 

[rborger73]

Should put some new pics tomorrow. It is hard to want to bother spending the time though honestly getting pics ready and uploading them with so little replies. I guess I need to start a new thread in photos and vids in a few days. Maybe will get more interest there as a more obvious build thread. This wasn't originally, but sort of morphed into it.

Just ordered to of these. http://www.jegs.com/i/Quik-Latch/658/QL-25-BL/10002/-1

I have been kicking around ideas how to make the panels easy to remove but not use screws or something I have to use a tool to remove the sides. I also wanted obviously, however I did it, to look good and clean. Most people will not even realize these are a latching system. I'll use one of these per side towards the front. They are rated to hold 150lbs each so I have pretty good peace of mind they won't be flying off. On the backside of where it its flush under the seat tube I'll be adding brackets that slide in to the battery mounting frame. So the front of the the clamshell will be held out at an angle from the bike as you slide the rear and lower bracket bars in. When you bring the clamshell tight to the frame again in the front the quik latch will push in to latch. It will allow a very fast removal, looks stylish and stealth, and will never come undone accidently. I wanted to just do 3 buttons on each side (and I still might) but at 24.00 per latch and 3 per side... I for now will try to do one on each side. If the bracket idea doesn't work for some reason I'll bite the bullet and spend the other hundred bucks.

I have some dynamat or knock off dynamat laying around as well. I'm going to put that on the inside of the clamshells. This is two fold. 1. to help deaden any road noise the panels could possibly amplify, and 2. it is non conductive, and fire resistant. High voltage wiring + bare sheet metal.. never a good plan.

I bought a lot of extra vinyl for a reason. I plan on making 2 or 3 pairs of clamshells total. I won't have the sheet metal shop once I move in a few months. I'm pretty happy with the current sides but fabricators know when you are making something with out doing a layout first and doing it on the fly.. second version is always slightly better. So I like the second clamshell I made better. So... I suppose by the time I make 2 pairs of new ones I'm bought to get them dead on perfect. But everything is fitting awesomely now. I did cover both the current clamshells in vinyl. They look really good but I'm going to order a smoother spraying more even headliner spray adhesive. Stuff I have is good just want a perfectly smooth application. This vinyl is thin and I want no texture at all. So the vinyl on there now will be peeled off at some point and used at patterns for new vinyl and a very slow and careful job of making sure it is 100% smooth.

I'm trying to make this look at non DIY as possible. I want people that don't know me to ask me how much I paid to buy it. I have another month, maybe a month and a half to work on it. Have full woodshop here as well. This is the time for me to get this thing dead on perfect. I'm very very pleased so far. I really wish this cold snap would break to be above 40 F soon. -15 last night.. doh.. lol

 

[rborger73]

@ rborger73 --- You are about to experience the fun world of RC Lipo connections. Once you get your first Lipo system mail order, you find you have to make another Lipo system mail order just to get the first one to fit.
Such is the nature of Lipo addiction ........ :lol:

On the main power leads , the ones you are presently having trouble "adapting". I suggest getting (at least) more 10pc sets of 4mm bullet connections (HXT gold 4mm type looks good, but some folks have difficulty soldering them). Then also maybe get a set of Anderson Powerpoles ... the crimping tool is nice but expensive, thus the price of the Andersons AND tool&die does make them a lifetime commitment. If you do a lot of connections, they (AP) can be worth the cost.
Make short 12 gauge and 10 gauge wire "adapters" so that you can limit the amount of plug cutting on your existing (and future) batteries and charger.
{You do know that you may have a weird warranty on those HK batteries if the serial numbers are registered with HK?}

The reason for 4mm Bullets and Andersons is the large amount of batteries you have; the connection(s) needed to get batteries to each other AND to your Charger; and finally the connections to hook the batteries to your motor controller.
I personally find that the Andersons are at least better color coded (Red & Black, etc), pair together nicely, and haven't failed me yet after 5 years of connecting and disconnecting.
You may be able to get by with just the 4mm bullet connections but I find them visually confusing when in a large spaghetti bundle of wires.

Who knows , some day you may even want to venture into the world of Parallel Charging Boards (Paraboards) and they are initially dependent on what type Main Leads you connect with.http://www.buddyrc.com/paraboard-parallel-charge-board.html

This was pretty spot on. I ordered 50 individual 4mm bullet connectors. I used the heat shrink trick of covering the females with an extra 1/4" or so. I used red heatshrink on all + to + connections, and white heatshrink for all the - connections. There is a harness for negative and harness for positive. I still am trying to decide on what kind of custom easy plug charging setup I'm going to go with. So still a lot to do.

I haven't ordered balance extending leads yet, but I till think I want to make an access panel with a board in it where on the backside inside of the panel they all plug into. Then make a balance harness for charging that plugs into all 12 at once. I want to be able to check each of the batteries balance individually without taking the sides off. That way I get quick plug charging as well as being able to exam things more if I feel the urge.

 

[rborger73]

To get an idea how these quik latches work. (not sure if they have been discussed here yet or not)

[youtube]G2q1ZmgRM_0[/youtube]