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Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit
- Thread starter sk8norcal
- Start date
Rix
100 TW
If the offset was the same, you could. but if the offset was off by even .5 degree, the triple clamps would'nt be uniform and there would be all sorts of voodoo going on up front.Offroader said:
Honestly, I don't know what Qulbix was thinking with the long head tube. Everything else had a lot of thought put into it except for that. It makes me think that he had a reason for making it so long. But .5" shaved off, .25" at top and bottom of the head tube would have made a huge difference in fork fitment.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2013
- Messages
- 1,903
Offroader,
the dnm usd8 front suspension is designed to run ~26"+ front wheel outer diameter including tire..
but use of a wider than nominal bike front tire such as 26 x 2.7-3" wide tire will increase your front wheel OD to ~27" ..
with the larger diameter front wheel due to the extra width and height tire you now do not have 8"+ clearance needed for full suspension travel.. so for safety and full travel you need a longer fork designed for 27.5" wheels or run a smaller OD wheel if you want to run the dnm safely..
shaving the frame head tube down will not help because even if it were shorter the dnm fork can not be lengthened due to the max height line on the fork legs (fork legs are often internally butted in the no-clamp area) .. and it looks like from your pics that you may already have the lower fork clamps above the max line on the fork legs??? on my bike (also with a long head tube) the dnm fork has height lines on the fork legs visible just above the lower crown clamps ..
example white visible height line on fork legs :
the dnm usd8 front suspension is designed to run ~26"+ front wheel outer diameter including tire..
but use of a wider than nominal bike front tire such as 26 x 2.7-3" wide tire will increase your front wheel OD to ~27" ..
with the larger diameter front wheel due to the extra width and height tire you now do not have 8"+ clearance needed for full suspension travel.. so for safety and full travel you need a longer fork designed for 27.5" wheels or run a smaller OD wheel if you want to run the dnm safely..
shaving the frame head tube down will not help because even if it were shorter the dnm fork can not be lengthened due to the max height line on the fork legs (fork legs are often internally butted in the no-clamp area) .. and it looks like from your pics that you may already have the lower fork clamps above the max line on the fork legs??? on my bike (also with a long head tube) the dnm fork has height lines on the fork legs visible just above the lower crown clamps ..
example white visible height line on fork legs :
Offroader said:efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
Yes it is possible if I run a 24" tire, but my preference is for the larger 26". Partly because I want to keep the bike higher up (bottom bracket higher) and also because 26" can roll better over stuff, most bike riders want 27.5" and even 29" now. I may even want to get a 26"x3" tire if duro ever gets around to doing their production run which they have been telling me for months they will. I see no reason to have to use a smaller wheel in the front because of a head tube that is too long.
I took some pictures to give you an idea of why I have no room. You can also see that I have adjusted my fork to almost the top, I will have to go over the top of the stanchions with the upper crown to get the clearance I need.
The travel on the fork is 8" and you can see that I don't have 8" with the ruller. The bike fork is not sagging down as I checked this before I took the picture.
But if you look closely at the pictures it makes sense just to cut down the head tube. Do you see any problem with doing that, the fork upper and lower crown easily clear the frame. Maybe you have a reason I don't see where I shouldn't cut down on the head tube.
Interesting, I thought a 26" fork should be able to take any 26" wheel size. Yes, I went above those Max line markings to get some clearance. I was wondering why they were so low because when I was set just below the max line I had a lot of tire rub.
Maybe I should look into a 24" rim with a 24x3" duro razorback tire. I heard those are close to 26" tires but probably not as large as a 26x2.7.
Sucks to have to lace a new rim, but if I want to go 3" then a 26x3" will be way too large.
Thanks for the response.
Maybe I should look into a 24" rim with a 24x3" duro razorback tire. I heard those are close to 26" tires but probably not as large as a 26x2.7.
Sucks to have to lace a new rim, but if I want to go 3" then a 26x3" will be way too large.
Thanks for the response.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2013
- Messages
- 1,903
offroader,
dnm is a (relatively cheap) downhill bike fork..
not many dh bikes with dual crown forks come with 27.5+ wheels (yet?)..
27.5 is more of a xc wheel size.. 26" is still most common for dh..
that may change but don't expect your old fork to meet a new standard..
dnm usd8 is 21" length from axle (center) to bottom of lower fork crown
(with lower crown at factory set below max height line)
from 21" leg length, subtract full fork travel of 8", this equals 13" ..
this is the available wheel radius before tire/ crown contact on full suspension compression..
13 x 2 = 26" this is the available wheel diameter before tire / crown contact on full compression..
yet some of my questions remained unanswered..
measurement of your air pressure in damping side pressure chamber at lower fork leg..
this is the dnm bottom out prevention/ adjustment ..
~100 to 150psi recommended.. (check pressure before rides)
measurement of your bike + rider weight suspension sag..
when you get on the bike in a normal riding position the suspension should sag a bit into its travel..
but not too much!
recommended 25% or less sag with rider weight for aggressive riding / big hits
(the more negative travel / sag you run the less positive travel you will have available for big hits)
there is a black rubber band on the spring side fork leg to measure travel / sag (or use a zip tie etc)
higher pressure in the air chamber and less rider sag
(more preload on the springs or maybe stiffer springs) would help prevent bottoming..
but only if your wheel OD is sized within the fork design !
and especially if you are regularly using full suspension travel ..
(http://www.dnmshock.com/upload_files/fork-manual.pdf)
dnm is a (relatively cheap) downhill bike fork..
not many dh bikes with dual crown forks come with 27.5+ wheels (yet?)..
27.5 is more of a xc wheel size.. 26" is still most common for dh..
that may change but don't expect your old fork to meet a new standard..
dnm usd8 is 21" length from axle (center) to bottom of lower fork crown
(with lower crown at factory set below max height line)
from 21" leg length, subtract full fork travel of 8", this equals 13" ..
this is the available wheel radius before tire/ crown contact on full suspension compression..
13 x 2 = 26" this is the available wheel diameter before tire / crown contact on full compression..
yet some of my questions remained unanswered..
measurement of your air pressure in damping side pressure chamber at lower fork leg..
this is the dnm bottom out prevention/ adjustment ..
~100 to 150psi recommended.. (check pressure before rides)
measurement of your bike + rider weight suspension sag..
when you get on the bike in a normal riding position the suspension should sag a bit into its travel..
but not too much!
recommended 25% or less sag with rider weight for aggressive riding / big hits
(the more negative travel / sag you run the less positive travel you will have available for big hits)
there is a black rubber band on the spring side fork leg to measure travel / sag (or use a zip tie etc)
higher pressure in the air chamber and less rider sag
(more preload on the springs or maybe stiffer springs) would help prevent bottoming..
but only if your wheel OD is sized within the fork design !
and especially if you are regularly using full suspension travel ..
(http://www.dnmshock.com/upload_files/fork-manual.pdf)
Offroader said:
Mammalian04
100 kW
Thanks eFMX. This was very helpful. I am using the DNM USB-8 on a Flux Alpha so this will be used for the setup.
I am lucky that on both my Raptors, I found a good deal on 27.5" Fox 40 forks so hopefully my 19" moto wheel with SR241 will never have a bottom out problem.
I am lucky that on both my Raptors, I found a good deal on 27.5" Fox 40 forks so hopefully my 19" moto wheel with SR241 will never have a bottom out problem.
My PSI was around 120. I decided to up it to 150 and notice it is much firmer. It must affect the sag because I get no sag on 150PSI.
My problem is from the tire being too big. It doesn't bottom all that often, just on higher jumps like 2.5 to 3 feet drops. It also depends on how I land. Bike is also 130LBS, but I'm light at around 130LBS.
The Marzocchi 888 fork was much worse with bottoming out, but I probably should have upgraded the spring to hard.
My problem is from the tire being too big. It doesn't bottom all that often, just on higher jumps like 2.5 to 3 feet drops. It also depends on how I land. Bike is also 130LBS, but I'm light at around 130LBS.
The Marzocchi 888 fork was much worse with bottoming out, but I probably should have upgraded the spring to hard.
Just wanted to add that boy is motorcycle seat such a joy to have. I don't know how you guys deal with the bicycle seats. That was my biggest gripe about my ebike before my raptor, the seat just hurt and I always worried if I was doing permanent damage to myself.
I can ride all day, and then stop and talk to someone for hours and just sit on the bike without any discomfort. I must have sat on my bike for 4 hours in a row today. I can't see you doing that with a bicycle seat. I've always said the raptor is like driving a cadillac as it is so comfortable.
Plus when doing any off road riding or jumps, I just drop right down on the seat without having to put all the forces into my knees/legs to slow me down. I always know when I drop back onto my seat I will land on it and not get poked with it. It makes such a huge difference when driving hard off-road. Plus a lot of times I just sit down over really harsh stuff if I'm lazy, because the seat won't be poking hard into me. No way you would want to do this with a bicycle seat.
But I guess you guys actually pedal? But in all seriousness I'm surprised more people are not using motorcycle seats on their ebikes.
I can ride all day, and then stop and talk to someone for hours and just sit on the bike without any discomfort. I must have sat on my bike for 4 hours in a row today. I can't see you doing that with a bicycle seat. I've always said the raptor is like driving a cadillac as it is so comfortable.
Plus when doing any off road riding or jumps, I just drop right down on the seat without having to put all the forces into my knees/legs to slow me down. I always know when I drop back onto my seat I will land on it and not get poked with it. It makes such a huge difference when driving hard off-road. Plus a lot of times I just sit down over really harsh stuff if I'm lazy, because the seat won't be poking hard into me. No way you would want to do this with a bicycle seat.
But I guess you guys actually pedal? But in all seriousness I'm surprised more people are not using motorcycle seats on their ebikes.
Greenlight
100 mW
Rix
100 TW
Greenlight said:
Damn Greenlight, you are set up that's for sure. Winters can be long, don't rush anything so you have something going on through out the winter months.
Mammalian04
100 kW
I'm not saying this will work but I'm just going to leave them like this tonight and see how many bikes there are in the morning.
Rix
100 TW
RIght on, :lol:Mammalian04 said:
Just noticed my raptor isnt in this thread......
MXUS 4t in 24 inch bicycle rim
Adaptto max-e
20s19p Samsung 25r
Rode 194km with the first charge.
I guess this will not be the final version, my plans are fenders, maybe moto rim in the rear, water cooled hub with heating for the battery in winter.
Since Vito offers laced qs motors in moped rims, im really curious to take one and make it water cooled.
But on the other hand the raptor works great so far, the only downside is getting the heat from the MXUS away.
Once saturated with heat, it pretty much stays there.
I just ordered some ferrofluid to try this out, but then the heat is wasted, insteat of heating the battery with it.
But its a fast, easy and cheap solution.
I will also ride some kilometers to see how fast the bicycle tire wears down.
MXUS 4t in 24 inch bicycle rim
Adaptto max-e
20s19p Samsung 25r
Rode 194km with the first charge.
I guess this will not be the final version, my plans are fenders, maybe moto rim in the rear, water cooled hub with heating for the battery in winter.
Since Vito offers laced qs motors in moped rims, im really curious to take one and make it water cooled.
But on the other hand the raptor works great so far, the only downside is getting the heat from the MXUS away.
Once saturated with heat, it pretty much stays there.
I just ordered some ferrofluid to try this out, but then the heat is wasted, insteat of heating the battery with it.
But its a fast, easy and cheap solution.
I will also ride some kilometers to see how fast the bicycle tire wears down.
Rix
100 TW
That is such a nice build Ziltoid! Really like your set up. Your component selection actually suggests you may pedal this machine a little, is that the case?
I always pedal as much as i can, especially now when its cold to heat up myself.
With the 11t sprocket in the rear and the 42 in front i can pedal up to 55kmh, but past 50 it isnt really a comfortable cadence anymore.
When i change to a moped rim with a smaller diameter than the 24 inch bicycle rim, this will be over, i guess.
And when i change, i definitely want to go to 17 inch, to get the full advantages in torque and efficiency.
I need to rise the frame by lowering the rear shock a bit and then i need a smaller chainring in front.
Also my 7 speed cassette maybe wont fit on the wider qs 205 v3.
But i think i can solve that with a truvativ hammerschmidt.
I already got an adapter to mount a 38t chainring on it.( it comes with a 22 or 24 normally)
In overdrive at factor 1.6 this will result in a 60t chainring, so a 14t sprocket in the rear will be ok.
But thats the problem, these are mayor changings.......on the other hand i could just ride.
Dumping 6ml ff in the hub like justin mentioned and be happy.
With the 11t sprocket in the rear and the 42 in front i can pedal up to 55kmh, but past 50 it isnt really a comfortable cadence anymore.
When i change to a moped rim with a smaller diameter than the 24 inch bicycle rim, this will be over, i guess.
And when i change, i definitely want to go to 17 inch, to get the full advantages in torque and efficiency.
I need to rise the frame by lowering the rear shock a bit and then i need a smaller chainring in front.
Also my 7 speed cassette maybe wont fit on the wider qs 205 v3.
But i think i can solve that with a truvativ hammerschmidt.
I already got an adapter to mount a 38t chainring on it.( it comes with a 22 or 24 normally)
In overdrive at factor 1.6 this will result in a 60t chainring, so a 14t sprocket in the rear will be ok.
But thats the problem, these are mayor changings.......on the other hand i could just ride.
Dumping 6ml ff in the hub like justin mentioned and be happy.
ridethelightning
1 MW
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,010
wow! 20s19p!!!
that is one large pack!
that is one large pack!
Initially it was 20p, i did a poor job when measuring.
But i noticed it before spotwelding.....
Even the 19p is to large......had to grind the frame opening a little bit.
Maybe 21p is possible, but then you have to split it in smaller packs.
But thanks to 19p the stress to one cell is really low, even at WOT.
Hopefully this will result in a long, long battery life.
But i noticed it before spotwelding.....
Even the 19p is to large......had to grind the frame opening a little bit.
Maybe 21p is possible, but then you have to split it in smaller packs.
But thanks to 19p the stress to one cell is really low, even at WOT.
Hopefully this will result in a long, long battery life.
ziltroid81, I would try the FF before upgrading to a cromotor size motor. I'm not sure all the extra weight is worth it especially if you like to pedal.
I'm actually thinking about going with a MXUS motor in the rear if I can cool it effectively to get rid of some of the unsprung weight in the rear.
I'd hate to lose some of my climbing ability if the MXUS does lack the torque compared to the cromotor. Would be interesting if someone tried both motors and could comment on the differences.
I'm actually thinking about going with a MXUS motor in the rear if I can cool it effectively to get rid of some of the unsprung weight in the rear.
I'd hate to lose some of my climbing ability if the MXUS does lack the torque compared to the cromotor. Would be interesting if someone tried both motors and could comment on the differences.
First of all i try the FF, thats for shure.
But if the rear bicycle tire wears down too fast, i will upgrade to a QS V3 in a moped rim, cause the MXUS will be harder to upgrade to water cooling.
And if i swap the motor, i would like to have water cooling too.
That was always in my mind, i dont want to waste the heat in winter.
The QS already have a bigger axle (with space for the water pipes) and bigger wires.
I could upgrade my MXUS, but this sucks, cause it turns the whole bike in a construction site again.
So i will need a second motor in every case, MXUS plus upgraded axle from Martin or Linukas will then cost the same or more as a QS.
Since Vito offers the QS laced in moped rims, its the better option.
The higher weight is an issue, but i guess i have to life with it.
It all depends on the tire, i dont want to swap it every 1000km.
But if the rear bicycle tire wears down too fast, i will upgrade to a QS V3 in a moped rim, cause the MXUS will be harder to upgrade to water cooling.
And if i swap the motor, i would like to have water cooling too.
That was always in my mind, i dont want to waste the heat in winter.
The QS already have a bigger axle (with space for the water pipes) and bigger wires.
I could upgrade my MXUS, but this sucks, cause it turns the whole bike in a construction site again.
So i will need a second motor in every case, MXUS plus upgraded axle from Martin or Linukas will then cost the same or more as a QS.
Since Vito offers the QS laced in moped rims, its the better option.
The higher weight is an issue, but i guess i have to life with it.
It all depends on the tire, i dont want to swap it every 1000km.
Very sweet zilt...
I know offroader runs 17" rear / motor & I laced mine 19" with a shinko and a 24x3 mtb (very close outer diameter) But wish I'd gone 17.. I ride alot with trials & enduro bikes (gas) & the only time I struggle is super steep climes.. Just got to hit it faster, which don't wok out all the time! I'm keeping my cro to about 7.5kw and it's fine by the touch as not hooked up the correct thermister. Thinking of a Mxus build for my lad with it being a little lighter...
@ offroader.. You got those adaptto Cro settings handy?? :wink:
I know offroader runs 17" rear / motor & I laced mine 19" with a shinko and a 24x3 mtb (very close outer diameter) But wish I'd gone 17.. I ride alot with trials & enduro bikes (gas) & the only time I struggle is super steep climes.. Just got to hit it faster, which don't wok out all the time! I'm keeping my cro to about 7.5kw and it's fine by the touch as not hooked up the correct thermister. Thinking of a Mxus build for my lad with it being a little lighter...
@ offroader.. You got those adaptto Cro settings handy?? :wink:
With the 17" it's torque I'm looking for.. Top speed on 20s with OVS I reckon may still crack 50 MPH, which is fine for the trails I ride & I should hang on to the trials bikes better. The only other thing with them boys is they have a super low stepover.. But I'm hanging in there.. Just!
Offroader said:bikerloosey said:My estimate is around 4000.00 Australian once I build the whole bike. Is that what others are finding? Trying to figure out best build. I know the cro motor but battery and controller I have questions. Fork and Brakes are easy...
Here is my build list and cost in USD. I don't know if your 4000 build price included the frame, as mine did.
My total build price was $5,678 USD. All parts are new, some parts were last years model at the time I bought them.
Torque Raptor Motorcycle Frame kit = $1,528
24 packs of hobby king Turnigy 6s 20C 5000 MAH = $43 x 24 = $1032
2013 Marzocchi 888 RC3 Evo V.2 Fork = $757
Shimano 640 zee rear brakes = $130
Shimano 640 zee front brakes = $130
Shimano XT RT-86 Rotor Front = $40
Shimano SM-RT66 Rotor Rear = $29
Truvativ Hussefelt Riserbar 40mm rise = $40
Dicta BMX Freewheel 16T 3/32" = $11
Shimano MX80 Pedals = $60
Shimano M645 Zee Crank, 165mm, 83mm, = $119
Truvativ Hussefelt Stem, = $24
Cromotor v3 = $595
FOX 2013 DHX RC4 10.5 x 3.5 = $340
Lyen 18 FET 4110 MARK II controller w/options = $250
DMR Convertable Front 20mm disk Hub 36h = $57
Cane Creek 40ZS44 Short Cover Headset = $43
MTX 39 Rim = $50
Duro Razorback 26" Tire = $28
Maxxis Schrader DH Tube 26"x2.5"-2.7" = $15
14/15 gauge spokes w/nipples front = $36
Prowheel 19x1.4-TTRBKR = $79
Bikemaster Tube 2.75/3.00 19 = $12
Shinko SR241 2.75-19 = $31
11/12 gauge sapim spokes w/nipples rear = $72
Cycle Analyst CA3-DP = $150
ODI Ruffian MX lock on grips = $20
Oh wow...Thanks for this comprehensive list. It should make a lot easier to get me up and running with the Raptor build
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