Qulbix Raptor ebike + frame kit

[samoloh]

hey Offroader, do you have a rough estimate on how much u spent on your build. I would like something very similar but currently lack the income as I am a student. But I am counting on getting a good summer job next :

 

[Samd]

That is a fine looking build Uschi. Nice colours too. I'm interested in hearing if more people find the extra width a distraction or not. Parts look great for quality. 8)

 

[Rix]

[quoteI'm interested in hearing if more people find the extra width a distraction or not][/quote]

That was a question I forgot to ask that is important to me. So Moonshine, Uschi, and Offroader, does the width efffect your ability to pedal the machine?

 

[Offroader]

I only have used the motorcycle seat and because it is not at optimal pedal height it does not offer optimal pedal efficiency, but this is to be expected.

I weighed my bike today and it weighs 113lbs, when I try to pedal this monster it is just too difficult as the bike is too heavy, requires way too much effort. However, my 80lbs ebike required way too much effort also so I never pedaled that bike either. Pedals on these higher end custom ebikes are just to hold the bike stable and very slow speeds and it does well at that. I guess if you really wanted to pedal you can consider some kind of pedal assist.

Since I don't pedal the width of the bike is a non issue. Since I use the motorcycle seat I actually prefer the wider width because I can hold onto the frame with my knees if needed.

I actually sat on my old cross-country ebike today and can't believe I used that bike so long with that uncomfortable hard bicycle seat. Brought back memories of it constantly whacking my ass as I drove that bike hard off-road. What a useless piece of crap for a bike I never pedaled. LOL, I can go on all day about how much better a nice cushy motorcycle seat is and how much better it is for using the bike off-road. Even street driving it is so nice to have a comfortable wide motorcycle seat. But I do understand that some people don't want a dirt-bike or motorcycle and want the bike to feel more like a bicycle.

The bike is amazing, I had it out today again and can not get enough of it. If you use it with a cromotor 2, and a controller that does at least 72 volts, 60 amps battery, 130 phase amps, the bike will be a blast. With the shinko 241 tire the bike has amazing traction and gives you so much confidence. It just plows through everything off-road like it was nothing and never loses traction.

 

[moonshine]

I personally have not found any issues with the width of the frame. I think the most important part is the seat position (too far forward or back) if it's too far forward I've found myself positioned like a sport bike and there is a uncomfortable amount of stress on my wrists. Too far back causes my knees to start rubbing against the seat post mount (blue portion on my bike ). The seat position I have now had my knees past the blue part which is very comfortable. I can't quite say is natural though. I only realized this when I rode my guardrail mtb bike. I found that when I stand up and pedal to gain speed my knees wobble in. The tendency with a big heavy bikes is to pedal this way to get more strength with each leg stroke, however this is very difficult to not possible with my frame because of its width. This is I believe is the absolute critical difference between the torque frame and the bomber. I have a single 18T freewheel that allows me to Pedal at low speeds, but once I get up to speed is all motor.

However ghost pedaling is wicked fun

 

[Offroader]

It was rainy out so I stuck to concrete today, no off-road driving.

Anyway, was having a ball practicing stairs at a local park, something I would never do on my other bike. Anyway I thought I heard a crack when climbing some, checked but didn't see anything broke. I continued for a little bit more.

Then I thought the bike felt a little unstable or wobbly while riding. The rear tire seemed to have some play in when pushing it side to side, and figured maybe a loose bolt, or maybe I broke the axle in the cromotor or loosened it, or possibly the dropout bearing bolt was loose or broke.

I drove home and was looking more closely, the bolts were all tight, axle bolts were tight.. shit must be the cromotor. Then I noticed a broken spoke, then I noticed a lot more broken spokes. Looks like I broke 6 spokes on the bike. All broken right at the elbow.

Well that sucks, but at least it wasn't the cromotor or something else I broke.

With this wheel build I used 13 gauge spokes to make it easy to tension and true. I did notice that after my first ride I had a couple of loose spokes. I wonder if the 13 gauge are strong enough or if I just never tensioned them enough. The big question is should I reuse 13 gauge spokes if I plan to climb stairs and beat on the bike or should I go with 11/12 gauage spokes?

 

[Rix]

It was rainy out so I stuck to concrete today, no off-road driving.

Anyway, was having a ball practicing stairs at a local park, something I would never do on my other bike. Anyway I thought I heard a crack when climbing some, checked but didn't see anything broke. I continued for a little bit more.

Then I thought the bike felt a little unstable or wobbly while riding. The rear tire seemed to have some play in when pushing it side to side, and figured maybe a loose bolt, or maybe I broke the axle in the cromotor or loosened it, or possibly the dropout bearing bolt was loose or broke.

I drove home and was looking more closely, the bolts were all tight, axle bolts were tight.. shit must be the cromotor. Then I noticed a broken spoke, then I noticed a lot more broken spokes. Looks like I broke 6 spokes on the bike. All broken right at the elbow.

Well that sucks, but at least it wasn't the cromotor or something else I broke.

With this wheel build I used 13 gauge spokes to make it easy to tension and true. I did notice that after my first ride I had a couple of loose spokes. I wonder if the 13 gauge are strong enough or if I just never tensioned them enough. The big question is should I reuse 13 gauge spokes if I plan to climb stairs and beat on the bike or should I go with 11/12 gauage spokes?

No the 13g are not robust enough, and niether are 12g on high powered ebikes. I am using 10 and 8 guage respectively on both of my MC rims. The 10g stretched a little bit before taking a set, the 8g only needed retruing and tensioning once and has taken set and never changed.

Rick

 

[moonshine]

agreed, i believe JRH used 10ga spokes for my cromo build. They're ridiculously stiff.

on a separate note, anyone come across a good kickstand? I've seen the ones from quigley motorsports (looks like it would fit on this frame) but its $500!!! Then i saw some moose clamp kickstands, which were ~100 and bolt onto the swingarm. I don't like any of the dual kickstands or bikestands that have two prongs. All of them look like they wouldn't support 100+ pounds and also are very very close to the ground.

also, fenders!!!! any ideas?!! again quigley motorsports has a rear fender which is 239!!! It looks super awesome and badass, but i read somewhere (bomber owner forum) that they don't actually cover enough of the rear and still allow a significant amount of splash still.

Rick, i know you're upgrading your bomber, any chance you're upgrading fenders and a kickstand???

 

[Offroader]

I was going to post also about kickstand and fender recommendations. My 305 mm kickstand that mounts to the center kickstand bracket is too short by about 2 inches. I do not know if they make one long enough for the 14" bottom bracket height.

They also make a double kickstand that closes to one side and I think closes up high like a single. However, not sure if it would be long enough to reach the ground on the raptor.

Seems like the best rear fender option is something like the one made for stealth. I can see how it would not be long enough because I had a rear fender on my cross country bike that was long but since it didn't cover the last inch or so of the wheel it would be enough to spray mud all over the back of me.


I was thinking, maybe stealth bikes can design a rear fender if asked. I know they made stuff for motorcycles. Maybe it would be worth to ask them?

 

[Rix]

agreed, i believe JRH used 10ga spokes for my cromo build. They're ridiculously stiff.

Rick, i know you're upgrading your bomber, any chance you're upgrading fenders and a kickstand???

No, I don't have a kickstand or fenders. I was thinking about getting a "THE" fenders for the front but didn't since it wouldnt protect the controller I like quigly's kickstand and Fender, I originally planned on buying a kickstand from him, but I changed my mind because when I went to the moto wheel on the rear, I gained some weight. I figured that I didn't need to add any addtional weight. Quigly's kick stand and fender aren't heavy by any means, just saying that since I live and ride in a very dry climate with tons of rocks, the need for a kickstand and fender just aren't neccessary.

Rick

 

[Offroader]

Moonshine, is your wheel centered more to the right in the dropouts with your new cromotor? Seems like the cromotor needs major dishing to center the wheel.

I am wondering if I should order spokes to dish the wheel to center it more, or just leave it off-center to the right.

BTW. I broke a total of 11 spokes . Surprised that I was able to drive home relatively easy at 25MPH with that many broken spokes.

I recommend you guys check your spoke tension often, and also check tension of many of the frame bolts, including the two dropout bolts. One of those came loose, also the pinch dropout bolts seemed to loosened. I am going to probably invest in nord-lock washers.

 

[moonshine]

offroader,

my cromotor is centered in relation to the rim (no dishing) was required. As it sits in the dropouts, it's perfectly centered. As for the tension in my spokes, they're fine right now, but thanks for the concern. I'll keep an eye on them, but i suspect they'll be fine given they're heavy gauge.

 

[E-Fuel]

the back wheel is done spokes 11g 130mm, thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Rix]

Very beutiful wheel Efuel. Did your rim come in white? I see you got the SR241 on. Like I said before, I have tested 14 tires to date so far and I keep going back to the SR241 because it works so well on everything.

Rick

 

[E-Fuel]

Rix
No, I painted, I went for the SR 241 because of your comments. :wink:

Has anyone considered installing a mid-drive in this frame?

 

[EvoBikeShop]

Has anyone considered installing a mid-drive in this frame?

I am, but unfortunatly I won't have those kind of funds until next year.

 

[arcticfly]

I was going to put a GNG on one to try. Even have the motor here, but I bought a Stealth Bomber second hand, so now I´m not... Think I would have ended up with a Cromotor anyhow.

 

[samoloh]

Is there a specific reason why almost everyone who has built a raptor so far is used a cromotor and no a different motor for their builds??

 

[Rix]

Is there a specific reason why almost everyone who has built a raptor so far is used a cromotor and no a different motor for their builds??

Not saying this is the case, but from my point of view, the Raptor frame weighs around 23Ibs (10.5KG) empty. Building a really light ebike with a geared hub motor or a smaller direct drive doesn't make as much sence to me as going with the bigger cromotors or a Crystatlyte 54XX. I have been told by some of the Raptor owners that this bike can be pedaled with no power for some distance (varies by gear combos), albeit with knee clearance issues, but that's not what they bought the frame for. Ghost pedaling this bike and taking it easy with power assist will conceal it well on bike paths, school zones, around peds in the mall parking lot, situations like that. Then when no one is looking, let er rip!! Still the neat thing about the Raptor, the builder can do what ever the builder wants to do.

Rick

 

[samoloh]

Is there a specific reason why almost everyone who has built a raptor so far is used a cromotor and no a different motor for their builds??

Not saying this is the case, but from my point of view, the Raptor frame weighs around 23Ibs (10.5KG) empty. Building a really light ebike with a geared hub motor or a smaller direct drive doesn't make as much sence to me as going with the bigger cromotors or a Crystatlyte 54XX. I have been told by some of the Raptor owners that this bike can be pedaled with no power for some distance (varies by gear combos), albeit with knee clearance issues, but that's not what they bought the frame for. Ghost pedaling this bike and taking it easy with power assist will conceal it well on bike paths, school zones, around peds in the mall parking lot, situations like that. Then when no one is looking, let er rip!! Still the neat thing about the Raptor, the builder can do what ever the builder wants to do.

Rick

I'll definitely want to let her rip. If I get one, I'll want a build that's a bit lighter like 90lbs but the cromotor and frame already weight in at 20.7kg(~45lbs) and battery probably another 10kg(22lbs). I guess could probably achieve a highpower 90lbs build

 

[GCinDC]

If I get one, I'll want a build that's a bit lighter like 90lbs but the cromotor and frame already weight in at 20.7kg(~45lbs) and battery probably another 10kg(22lbs). I guess could probably achieve a highpower 90lbs build

90lbs?

here's a raptor + cromo w/ 26" wheels (large marge rear):

moonshine, you gotta be closer to 145lbs with MC wheels, no?

145lbs is still VERY light for a MOTORCYCLE with pedals......

 

[samoloh]

If I get one, I'll want a build that's a bit lighter like 90lbs but the cromotor and frame already weight in at 20.7kg(~45lbs) and battery probably another 10kg(22lbs). I guess could probably achieve a highpower 90lbs build

90lbs?

here's a raptor + cromo w/ 26" wheels (large marge rear):

moonshine, you gotta be closer to 145lbs with MC wheels, no?

145lbs is still VERY light for a MOTORCYCLE with pedals......

that bike's heavier than me already okay maybe a 100 lbs :lol: , I keep trying to convince myself that its a high powered bicycle rather than a light weight motorcycle

 

[Offroader]

Is there a specific reason why almost everyone who has built a raptor so far is used a cromotor and no a different motor for their builds??

I think the reason is the cro-motor is simply the most powerful and best hub motor you could get. I have a new cromotor v3 and I must say I am amazed by how powerful, smooth, and quiet it is. Of course you need to feed it the proper amount of phase and battery amps. At 72 volts, 60 battery amps 130 phase amps this motor is a beast. It can even handle a lot more power so I can not even imagine pumping more volts and amps into it.

The motor could be the widest hub motor also and wider is better for torque. The raptor also can easily fit a cromotor with its 165mm dropouts.

I do not see it being worth saving a few lbs and going with a smaller motor. Heat issues may be a problem if you push a smaller hub motor. The raptor can handle high power very easily and safely compared to a bicycle e-bike and you will want to push more power into it.

 

[Rix]

Is there a specific reason why almost everyone who has built a raptor so far is used a cromotor and no a different motor for their builds??

Not saying this is the case, but from my point of view, the Raptor frame weighs around 23Ibs (10.5KG) empty. Building a really light ebike with a geared hub motor or a smaller direct drive doesn't make as much sence to me as going with the bigger cromotors or a Crystatlyte 54XX. I have been told by some of the Raptor owners that this bike can be pedaled with no power for some distance (varies by gear combos), albeit with knee clearance issues, but that's not what they bought the frame for. Ghost pedaling this bike and taking it easy with power assist will conceal it well on bike paths, school zones, around peds in the mall parking lot, situations like that. Then when no one is looking, let er rip!! Still the neat thing about the Raptor, the builder can do what ever the builder wants to do.

Rick

I'll definitely want to let her rip. If I get one, I'll want a build that's a bit lighter like 90lbs but the cromotor and frame already weight in at 20.7kg(~45lbs) and battery probably another 10kg(22lbs). I guess could probably achieve a highpower 90lbs build

I think you could keep the build in the low 90s with careful component selection and bicycle wheels. If a guy wanted to use a 4065 or 4080 (or TC65 TC80) running 18s 2p with 6s 8000ah Hobby king specials, yes the weight could be kept down. Would be kind of silly not filling that frame up to the gills with lipos but the trade off is much less weight. Figure lower 100s with MC wheel tire options with this powertrain set up. I really like the cromotors for this type of build. The raptor frame looks way strong and robust, I would choose my build components to compliment those features. I would, trade the lightest weight option for more weight annd durability ever time. Much safer and funner that way.

 

[zombiess]

Is there a specific reason why almost everyone who has built a raptor so far is used a cromotor and no a different motor for their builds??

The original purpose of the Cromotor was to power Greyborg's ebike frames and have the ability to take abuse. Since most of these high end DIY ebike builds weigh more than most normal frames which are converted, it is a logical choice. Besides, who doesn't like gobs of torque and not having to worry about over heating the motor when having fun?